3.95 GPA 24 MCAT...Help!!!

[Akewataru]

Yes, I have. I'm not sure if you know but if you have taken previous exam under no accommodations, it is almost impossible to receive future accomodations, even with documentation from my psychiatrist and counselor.

Of course it is difficult to get accommodations, but NOT impossible. Actually, you are in a interesting spot since you have taken the exam so many times without accommodations. I assume with meager improvements each time? In your personal statement to AAMC and in your psychological evaluation, you can claim that you were at disadvantage every time you took the MCAT without accommodations. I received every last one of those accommodations I mentioned. As long as you have a paper trail documenting your disability you do have a shot at getting them. Also, and I cannot emphasize this more you need a comprehensive (typically this takes the better part of a day) and recent evaluation done by your psychologist/psychiatrist. This is the most powerful thing in to include in your application for accommodations. Even I didn't realize how much they heavily considered the evaluation notes until they gave me a decision letter. What do you have to lose? Do you really want your lack of trying to be the reason you didn't get into medical school?

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[ZedsDed]

You guys are basically just picking on him/her at this point lol. I think OP understands that 24 is not a competitive score and he/she has probably already been told to retake the MCAT a gazillion times. There's a difference between giving advice and beating a dead horse, guys. Chill. People do get into med school with 24s.

EDIT: Data's a bit old but pg 18 @: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

90% 1st time pass rate for OP grade/MCAT combo. Not all hope is lost.

As I said, this is what the OP came here for. I wish him/her the best.

 

[Goro]

So you're going to argue with me, an adcom member, AND the multiple published studies that the MCAT is a powerful predictor of medical school and Boards performance? You have admitted severe test taking issues, and you think you're going to just sail through med school?


1. From the medical students I have chatted with, medical school is night and day compared to MCAT preparation, so how you can possibly correlate a 24 on the MCAT to being killed in medical school is beyond me. As I have said in my first post, I do agree there is some correlation between low MCAT scores and boards, the correlation is not very strong.

You're arguing like my 12 year old when he gets angry.. meaning he starts to not make sense. Those depressed people aren't all applying to med school, and our depressed students are at highest risk for failing out, being dismissed or taking a long leave of absence. Listen up: med school will be 5 x hard than what you're used to in college, working or not.

2. Both my therapist and psychiatrist have supported my decision from the beginning of applying to medical school. Also, a quarter of the US population is on anti-depressants, so do all of those people get broken in the furnace in medical school as well? I am not saying what you are saying is incorrect, but from my GPA in undergraduate school and working 20+ hours weekly while in school, I think I have proven I can handle an incredible amount of responsibility.

You have to actually get through med school and pass. Your risk factors are high.
4. Thank you for proving my point that first time pass rate on boards is approaching 100% and the second time pass rate is at 100%.

And those people are on what med school admissions committees? Stop engaging in the sin of solipsism. You didn't come here for hugs and kisses, did you? You're being given realistic advice. The rah-rah Pollyannas are doing you no good at all.

This entire thread has turned really negative. I see people posting stats much lower than myn and everyone saying, "somewhere will take you" or "you'll be fine."

 

[GrapesofRath]

With all due respect I've never seen a 3.95 GPA ring so incredibly hollow before. The fact you are sitting here arguing the MCAT isn't relevant to success in med school and that your GPA is what matters only shows that you haven't really been exposed to the level of reasoning and comprehension that is vital to success in med school in any way during your college career.

 

[ZedsDed]

With all due respect I've never seen a 3.95 GPA ring so incredibly hollow before.

According to LizzyM (I think?), high GPA/low MCAT is slightly better than low GPA/high MCAT. I never really understood this. In my mind, a high MCAT shows at least that the individual is not incompetent. I see a high GPA with a low MCAT and I start to wonder about the course load and rigor. Then again, a 4.0 at any university (excluding Devry) shows a certain amount of discipline and maturity.

 

[GrapesofRath]

According to LizzyM (I think?), high GPA/low MCAT is slightly better than low GPA/high MCAT. I never really understood this. In my mind, a high MCAT shows at least that the individual is not incompetent. I see a high GPA with a low MCAT and I start to wonder about the course load and rigor. Then again, a 4.0 at any university (excluding Devry) shows a certain amount of discipline and maturity.

Yeah there is data that supports this general idea. We are talking relatives though and in general this conversation is full of grey areas and is kind of circular. Comparing a 3.6/38 vs 3.9/30 is a conversation that will never end with anybody favoring one side or the other ever being satisfied.

We could get into an endless conversation about how ADCOMs view academics(there are literally thousands of threads about this in different forms). I don't really want to do that here. What I will say is the MCAT is an interesting test, perhaps unique compared to the vast majority of standardized tests in its nature. It's not a test of knowledge and hence it's hard past a certain point to use it as a gauge of assessing whether someone's classes were too easy. Many pre-med classes don't evaluate the skills tested on the MCAT in terms of reasoning, comprehension and doing so at rapid speeds. It's tempting to say someone with a high MCAT and lower GPA is capable of learning material very well are capable of getting a higher GPA and that those with higher GPAs and lower MCATs simply work harder than the former types. But I'm not sure that is necessarily as true as many just assume it to be.

 

[edgerock24]

A 24 is nothing to get excited about, but is it really that bad? A couple of years ago, KCUMB had a class average of a 26 MCAT (class of 2016, I believe), and its huge class size allows us to conclude that a fair share of students had MCAT scores of ~24.

KYCOM has an average MCAT of 24. The VCOM's have an average of 25. WVSOM with 25. Think of the hundreds of students who have been accepted to these schools, and others, with MCAT scores close to 24. Although I am concerned regarding the OP's retakes, why would these schools accept so many students with 'lower' MCAT scores if they were simply going to fail out? Can't be the case.

@millionairemind92, add the schools that Goro supplied to your list and I bet you obtain multiple interviews.

 

[ZedsDed]

A 24 is nothing to get excited about, but is it really that bad? A couple of years ago, KCUMB had a class average of a 26 MCAT (class of 2016, I believe), and its huge class size allows us to conclude that a fair share of students had MCAT scores of ~24.

KYCOM has an average MCAT of 24. The VCOM's have an average of 25. WVSOM with 25. Think of the hundreds of students who have been accepted to these schools, and others, with MCAT scores close to 24. Although I am concerned regarding the OP's retakes, why would these schools accept so many students with 'lower' MCAT scores if they were simply going to fail out? Can't be the case.

@millionairemind92, add the schools that Goro supplied to your list and I bet you obtain multiple interviews.

A 3.5 with a 24 on a first attempt is different then a 3.95 with a 24 on a 4th retake. The latter shows a serious deficiency in standardized test-taking ability.

 

[deleted480308]

Op, I took heavy full time course loads with kids, a salaried full time managerial job, and a part time church job......didn't even kind of compare to the stress and difficulty of medical school for me

I had your level of grades when I went back to school and a significantly higher mcat...I'm mediocre in my medical school. This is just a different universe and it's hard to explain that to someone who isn't in it

 

[Grace184]

OP pointing out that other people have a common condition such as mild to moderate depression that is managed by antidepressants (which also can help with mild to moderate anxiety too) is just pointing the finger. And if some one is in med school and is stable on these medications and has been for years, as well as have been addressing anxiety or other needs through therapy, they are typically not at risk for "crashing and burning." They have learned healthy coping mechanisms to function and don't say "yeah but...." They know themselves and what they need to do. And their issues aren't disabling to the point they start a thread arguing with adcoms and everyone who is helping them build a list of schools where to apply.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

Have you taken the MCAT? Do you realize how difficult it is? The exam is designed for pre-meds to be as difficult as possible as there are SO many pre-meds they have to weed out. Also in regards to USMLE, from my understanding the questions are very straight forward and first time pass rate is approaching 100%.

The MCAT really isn't very difficult with proper preparation... You must have some sort of issue that was not identified.

 

[ZedsDed]

The MCAT really isn't very difficult with proper preparation... You must have some sort of issue that was not identified.

For some people it is insurmountable, for others it is a breeze.

 

[Lawpy]

@Goro and @GrapesofRath said it best unfortunately. I can understand going from a 24 to a 31, but scoring a 24 around 4 attempts and justifying the low MCAT helps no one.

OP, your best bet is to apply to mid-tier DO and new DO schools, with the list provided to you. I understand your frustration but sadly, you are at a disadvantage here. Arguing about something that comes after medical school is a bad excuse that only hurts you.

 

[millionairemind92]

So you're going to argue with me, an adcom member, AND the multiple published studies that the MCAT is a powerful predictor of medical school and Boards performance? You have admitted severe test taking issues, and you think you're going to just sail through med school?


1. From the medical students I have chatted with, medical school is night and day compared to MCAT preparation, so how you can possibly correlate a 24 on the MCAT to being killed in medical school is beyond me. As I have said in my first post, I do agree there is some correlation between low MCAT scores and boards, the correlation is not very strong.

You're arguing like my 12 year old when he gets angry.. meaning he starts to not make sense. Those depressed people aren't all applying to med school, and our depressed students are at highest risk for failing out, being dismissed or taking a long leave of absence. Listen up: med school will be 5 x hard than what you're used to in college, working or not.

2. Both my therapist and psychiatrist have supported my decision from the beginning of applying to medical school. Also, a quarter of the US population is on anti-depressants, so do all of those people get broken in the furnace in medical school as well? I am not saying what you are saying is incorrect, but from my GPA in undergraduate school and working 20+ hours weekly while in school, I think I have proven I can handle an incredible amount of responsibility.

You have to actually get through med school and pass. Your risk factors are high.
4. Thank you for proving my point that first time pass rate on boards is approaching 100% and the second time pass rate is at 100%.

And those people are on what med school admissions committees? Stop engaging in the sin of solipsism. You didn't come here for hugs and kisses, did you? You're being given realistic advice. The rah-rah Pollyannas are doing you no good at all.

This entire thread has turned really negative. I see people posting stats much lower than myn and everyone saying, "somewhere will take you" or "you'll be fine."

 

[Gandyy]

Just out of curiosity how did you do on your ACT or SATs?

 

[millionairemind92]

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

 

[ZedsDed]

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

I don't recall Goro ever encouraging someone with an MCAT much lower than 24 to pursue medicine.

 

[mk04447]

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

Kind of a decent rant. Just sayin.

 

[ZedsDed]

Kind of a decent rant. Just sayin.

Lately we have had a lot of users expressing moral outrage at having their feelings hurt...must be a generational thing.

 

[mk04447]

Lately we have had a lot of users expressing moral outrage at having their feelings hurt...must be a generational thing.

Not sure what you mean. Maybe my old age makes me slow.

 

[ZedsDed]

Not sure what you mean. Maybe my old age makes me slow.

I was talking about the user millionairemind92. His/her moral outrage at having his/her feelings hurt seems to be a common theme among this up and coming generation.

 

[ZedsDed]

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

So you came on, panicking about a crisis that you yourself created, and then got upset when people told you something other than everything will be OK. People here offered you constructive criticism to get back on track, which you interpreted as "negative." Over and over you argue that you are better and different from all of the other MCAT failures. All of this reeks of entitlement. You somehow think that your 3.9+ GPA entitles you to skip over the exam that the rest of us have to take, and how dare any of us suggest otherwise. This short-sighted, entitled, and stubborn attitude might be why you have failed to conquer the MCAT to begin with. This is nothing new, I knew plenty of kids like yourself in undergrad that demeaned the MCAT as "dumb" and a "waste of time."

I have taken and done very well in the MCAT. No, this did not come naturally to me. I had to break a lot of poor study habits, and challenge a lot of my own pre-conceived notions about how well I truly understood the material to succeed. In order to grow as a person, you have to be willing to admit your shortcomings. So far, you have utterly and completely failed in this area.

 

[C02232934]

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

Ugh. @DrMidlife I'm guessing these are the "myopic" premeds you were talking about?

 

[Gandyy]

Whatever, just let OP apply with 4 mcat takes with a max score of a 24. There is a small chance he will still get in.

@OP if you do get in, it is likely that you will have trouble with boards. I have had plenty of medical students tell me that the MCAT was the hardest test they had taken after graduating from medical school BUT I have heard from many that Boards are significantly harder.

It really depends on who you are. I have seen a official Step 1/Comlex level 1 practice test. At FIRST GLANCE, it does seem like the test is much more straightforward as far as the test itself goes. There are no passages etc etc. BUT, I bet the volume of information is 5x more and the critical thinking required is probably around the same level of thinking required for the MCAT behemoth.

So you take your pick.... passages and critical thinking vs tons of info and real world medical critical thinking.

I hated the MCAT but I still did OK on it. I'm hoping I will like Step 1 a little more.


Since you are adamant in not taking the MCAT again, apply and see what happens. I really doubt that there is a single school that won't be concerned about your standardized test taking ability though

 

[Goro]

PhD faculty with > 13 years experience on Admissions. I teach med students so I know exactly what we want in a student.

It's not rude to point out deficits in an applicant that would lead to high risk for failure that lead to either being expelled or withdrawing from medical school after accruing serious debt and wasting 1-2 years of your life. This isn't just opinion, there's literally two decades worth of data supporting this, from multiple medical schools, both DO and MD.

I'll give encouragement to people to whom I think can survive medical school. I think my program would squash you. Not everyone is meant to go to med school. You tried your best and it's not good enough.

EDIT: That 'splat" you heard off in the distance was OP getting nailed by the banhammer. A satisfying sound!

@Goro I realize you are on an admission committee, a faculty member and everyone on here seems to worship the ground you walk on, but where did you get your MD or DO? You seem to have such a firm grasp of medical school rigors and challenges, but have you been through it yourself? Also, how did you score on your MCAT? You are outrageous - I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics and you have done nothing but attacked me including including having the audacity of comparing me to your 12 year old and saying I'm coming here for hugs and kisses.

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

 

[Lawpy]

Your rudeness is uncalled for and if you were a faculty member at my university or medical school, I would have reported you to the Dean of the College and the Chairman of your Department for rude behavior and inappropriate conduct.

And you would have been promptly dismissed by your medical school for failing to handle the curriculum and consistently attacking your professors with your combative and entitled attitude.

 

[DrPatriot]

@Goro I see you so supportive on other threads with individuals having much lower statistics

Yes, your GPA is very good(you seem to be very impressed with it yourself), unfortunately in your case it is the four MCATS with a high of a 24 that stands out. You can sit on here and argue about board pass rates and stats all day but the fact of the matter is you will be evaluated based on what you bring to the table as an applicant right now, not what others have been able to accomplish with similar stats or how you feel you will perform in the future.

You came here seeking advice and we have all tried to help you with a reasonable school list considering your unique circumstances. Instead of taking the responses(which you asked for) for what they were you have been combative and called into question the credentials and experiences of everybody who gave you their opinion. I believe I speak for the majority of this thread when I say nobody here seeks to put someone down or destroy their dreams, rather they give the best advice they can to those who ask for it given the information provided. What you decide to do is ultimately up to you. I honestly wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make.

 

[Gandyy]

Yes, your GPA is very good(you seem to be very impressed with it yourself), unfortunately in your case it is the four MCATS with a high of a 24 that stands out. You can sit on here and argue about board pass rates and stats all day but the fact of the matter is you will be evaluated based on what you bring to the table as an applicant right now, not what others have been able to accomplish with similar stats or how you feel you will perform in the future.

You came here seeking advice and we have all tried to help you with a reasonable school list considering your unique circumstances. Instead of taking the responses(which you asked for) for what they were you have been combative and called into question the credentials and experiences of everybody who gave you their opinion. I believe I speak for the majority of this thread when I say nobody here seeks to put someone down or destroy their dreams, rather they give the best advice they can to those who ask for it given the information provided. What you decide to do is ultimately up to you. I honestly wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make.

Exactly, I dont know what the problem is. Hell, the OP could still get into the low tier DO schools..... Everyone in this thread is just alarmed at his MCAT scores for HIS SAKE. Trying to help him for HIS SAKE.

He is not understanding this very very very excruciatingly simple idea. Its actually getting pretty annoying so I'm going to stay off this thread.

 

[millionairemind92]

@Goro I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already. So delightful to hear you get hit by a banhammer after me.
Ciao

 

[DrPatriot]

@Goro I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already.

I didn't know Caribbean MD handed out acceptance notices already?

 

[DrPatriot]

@Goro So delightful to hear you get hit by a banhammer after me.
Ciao

Reviving an old thread for this..... Classy. Best of luck in the future OP.

 

[ZedsDed]

@Goro I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already. So delightful to hear you get hit by a banhammer after me.
Ciao

Lol he's not banned genius

 

[gyngyn]

@Goro I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already.
Ciao

MD acceptances don't come out for another two weeks...
Do let us know which DO school took you so we can help others in your situation, though.

 

[efle]

No way to get to get the time back I just wasted going through this thread that popped up. However, I think it's hilarious that a High School sophomore is on here dishing out advice to the op.

Isn't he a freshman? Fairly sure this is his first year in high school

I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already.

MD acceptances don't come out for another two weeks...

Haha, @millionairemind92 way to be pathetic.

 

[jaxon]

@millionairemind92 can you list your acceptances thus far?

 

[DrPatriot]

@millionairemind92 can you list your acceptances thus far?

Incoming combative response from millionaremind based on his past posts. I guess it will be along the lines of "what qualifications do you have to know and evaluate my acceptance list?"

 

[jaxon]

Incoming combative response from millionaremind based on his past posts. I guess it will be along the lines of "what qualifications do you have to know and evaluate my acceptance list?"

A) I love your pic and name. And congrats on MSU!
B) Yea probably. I'm genuinely just curious lol.

 

[Gandyy]

@millionairemind92 can you list your acceptances thus far?

Somehow how he/she has MD acceptances before October 15th.

 

[jaxon]

Somehow how he/she has MD acceptances before October 15th.

which is why I'm very curious

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Somehow how he/she has MD acceptances before October 15th.

It's called lying

 

[Goro]

Sure you did! Maybe on the planet Zool?

I love the smell of immature troll in the evening!

@Goro I have received multiple MD/DO acceptances already. So delightful to hear you get hit by a banhammer after me.
Ciao

 

[rocklobstr]

from my GPA in undergraduate school and working 20+ hours weekly while in school, I think I have proven I can handle an incredible amount of responsibility.

Many people score better on the MCAT their first time with good GPA's and demanding schedules. Being busy isn't always enough to offset a poor MCAT score

 

[rocklobstr]

Lately we have had a lot of users expressing moral outrage at having their feelings hurt...must be a generational thing.

Hey, don't lump us all together

 

[millionairemind92]

In fact, guys, the MD schools I applied to made a special consideration for me to be accepted prior to October 15 as I am indeed from Planet Zool, and Planet Emperor Goro made a special request for that to please happen. This thread has become so ridiculous, I am laughing as I am reading everyone's replies. You all wouldn't even believe that I'm really a senior in high school. People take things so personally on here and do believe anything that is posted on here. LMAO.

 

[efle]

In fact, guys, the MD schools I applied to made a special consideration for me to be accepted prior to October 15 as I am indeed from Planet Zool, and Planet Emperor Goro made a special request for that to please happen. This thread has become so ridiculous, I am laughing as I am reading everyone's replies. You all wouldn't even believe that I'm really a senior in high school. People take things so personally on here and do believe anything that is posted on here. LMAO.

Ah the classic "I was just trolling the whole time" defense. I call BS though, you're really just a pathetic person. If you're actually a high school senior you should probably go work on your college applications instead of extensively researching what a believably weak med app and school list look like, the relation of MCAT to steps and step fail rates, etc...all just to do a very poor job of trolling a what are my chances board. Honestly if this was all trolling, still pathetic.

 

[millionairemind92]

Ah the classic "I was just trolling the whole time" defense. I call BS though, you're really just a pathetic person. If you're actually a high school senior you should probably go work on your college applications instead of extensively researching what a believably weak med app and school list look like, the relation of MCAT to steps and step fail rates, etc...all just to do a very poor job of trolling a what are my chances board. Honestly if this was all trolling, still pathetic.

Thank you for the compliments

 

[efle]

Thank you for the compliments

No problem! Best of luck with your abysmal MCATs and inability to handle reality

 

[deleted714452]

Man, I always wonder how people with massively high GPAs can do so poorly on MCAT. It can't be standardized testing because if you're getting that high, then you must be getting really high scores on tests in your classes, so how can you be bad at testing on the MCAT if you studied properly?

 

[rocklobstr]

Man, I always wonder how people with massively high GPAs can do so poorly on MCAT. It can't be standardized testing because if you're getting that high, then you must be getting really high scores on tests in your classes, so how can you be bad at testing on the MCAT if you studied properly?

Because they didn't actually study properly

 

[efle]

Or their exams' difficulty / time pressure / grading in general just doesn't relate to the skillset for the MCAT. In my sibling's Ochem class, you lose a letter grade off a lab report for abbreviating page as "pg." instead of "p." (totally serious, this happened to them). If that's what classes are like, makes sense that performance in them would have no strong predictive value for a high MCAT.