$320 k in PRIVATE student loan to attend California Northstate??

[BMBiology]

I can't believe people would borrow $320 k in PRIVATE student loan to attend this school. California Northstate does not qualify for federal loans because they got caught doing some scam so students must get their loans from the private sector. So no IBR, no PAYE, no PSLF (loan forgiveness).

http://pharmacy.cnsu.edu/shareddocs/TuitionFees2015-2016.pdf

P1 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,751.00
P2 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,589.50
P3 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,667.50
P4 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,655.50

$320 k in private student loans. I am not even including undergrad student loans.

I don't even know if they can extend their loan payment beyond 10 years. Lets see what is their monthly payment (10 year plan, 6.8% interest rate): $3683 a month! It is actually higher than this since I did not include the interest accrued while they are in school.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/college-planning/loan-calculator.aspx

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[BMBiology]

How is this not financial suicide? Did these students calculate how much they will take home after all the taxes before they decided to go to this school?

 

[Judgment Dragon]

I can't believe people would borrow $320 k in PRIVATE student loan to attend this school. California Northstate does not qualify for federal loans because they got caught doing some scam so students must get their loans from the private sector. So no IBR, no PAYE, no PSLF (loan forgiveness).

http://pharmacy.cnsu.edu/shareddocs/TuitionFees2015-2016.pdf

P1 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,751.00
P2 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,589.50
P3 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,667.50
P4 Total Estimated Cost per Year $80,655.50

$320 k in private student loans. I am not even including undergrad student loans.

I don't even know if they can extend their loan payment beyond 10 years. Lets see what is their monthly payment (10 year plan, 6.8% interest rate): $3683 a month! It is actually higher than this since I did not include the interest accrued while they are in school.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/college-planning/loan-calculator.aspx

Actually this is false. The real actual reason why California Northstate does not offer federal loans is because they actually qualified and were offer federal loans from the DOE, but they rejected the offer, so their shareholders can make more money by getting commission from their lending partners (iHelp, etc.).

How is this not financial suicide? Did these students calculate how much they will take home after all the taxes before they decided to go to this school?

My friend is a 1st year student at this school. I broke down the calculations for her. She said, "Yeah, no worries. I will just make the money back + profit in the long run when I become a pharmacist in San Jose." This was my reaction:

http://rs215.pbsrc.com/albums/cc280/bleurgh_bucket/facepalm.jpg~c200

 

[BMBiology]

Now that CNUCOP is accredited by WASC & ACPE, can I complete my FAFSA and apply for federal loans?

At this time, CNUCOP is not eligible for Federal Student Aid programs, but is in the processing of applying. Until the application process is complete and the U.S. Department of Education indicates CNUCOP to be eligible to participate in Federal Student Aid programs, CNUCOP is unable to provide students with Federal Student Aid. As a result, CNUCOP does not have a Federal School code for students to add to the FAFSA. The FAFSA is not necessary to apply for financial aid at CNUCOP.

http://pharmacy.cnsu.edu/frequently-asked-questionsSFAT

 

[Momus]

Great job school trying to make $$$ off students even more from back end commission

Your friend is obviously a *****.
Take home for avg pharmacist is 6000 - 3700/mo with 10 year prepayment student loan = $2300. Rent in San Jose is close to $2000. Net take home $300/month for everything else. Tell her to prepare living with mom for 15 years before she can buy a house. She better looks like a model so she can marry to a rich dude.

 

[confettiflyer]

$320k private with no IBR or PSLF release valve/options is absolutely financial suicide.

Has anyone looked into whether these loans can be discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy? I thought an accredited school had to offer Title IV student loans or else the corresponding private loans would not qualify the lender under the safe harbor provision.

Would be pretty easy for an unemployed pharmacist to file BK.

 

[Gombrich12]

Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy unless you can demonstrate that you are totally disabled and unable to work. Additionally you would be taxed on the forgiven amount as income. I am glad to see such an expensive fly by night school using private loans, it guarantees defaults and thus will attract regulators.

 

[steveysmith54]

lol. The school will produce some high quality RPh.

But, they are going to make bank with their MD program.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Should graduates be unemployed, they can only hope that CNCP goes under just like Corinthian Colleges so that they can have their loans forgiven.

Edit: never mind, only federal loans qualified for forgiveness. Private loans did not quality.

 

[confettiflyer]

Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy unless you can demonstrate that you are totally disabled and unable to work. Additionally you would be taxed on the forgiven amount as income. I am glad to see such an expensive fly by night school using private loans, it guarantees defaults and thus will attract regulators.

But what about the Title IV safe harbor I mentioned above? There's some very strict criteria for discharge and this could be one of them.

 

[fewaopi]

320K student debt and trying to work in San Jose sounds like financial suicide, irregardless of the type of loan. I'd never do that.

Actually this is false. The real actual reason why California Northstate does not offer federal loans is because they actually qualified and were offer federal loans from the DOE, but they rejected the offer, so their shareholders can make more money by getting commission from their lending partners (iHelp, etc.).



My friend is a 1st year student at this school. I broke down the calculations for her. She said, "Yeah, no worries. I will just make the money back + profit in the long run when I become a pharmacist in San Jose." This was my reaction:

http://rs215.pbsrc.com/albums/cc280/bleurgh_bucket/facepalm.jpg~c200

You need to slap your friend and wake her up big time; she's walking off the cliff. She's going to be in a world of hurt.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Now that CNUCOP is accredited by WASC & ACPE, can I complete my FAFSA and apply for federal loans?

At this time, CNUCOP is not eligible for Federal Student Aid programs, but is in the processing of applying. Until the application process is complete and the U.S. Department of Education indicates CNUCOP to be eligible to participate in Federal Student Aid programs, CNUCOP is unable to provide students with Federal Student Aid. As a result, CNUCOP does not have a Federal School code for students to add to the FAFSA. The FAFSA is not necessary to apply for financial aid at CNUCOP.

http://pharmacy.cnsu.edu/frequently-asked-questionsSFAT

Just because they claim so on their website does not mean that it is true. I have friends at this school who said that the president and vice president lied to their students about trying to get federal loans, but in fact, they were actually offered federal loans a long time ago, but rejected it so that their shareholders can get commission from the private loans from iHelp. After hundreds of students protested and demanded an in-person answer, the administration finally caved in and admit that they were continuing the lie all this time, and that they rejected the federal loans a long time ago.

Do you honestly think the president will say the truth on the website and say, "We are a for-profit school, so we have a fiduciary duty to prioritize our shareholders, so that we do not get sued by our shareholders. For this reason, we have rejected the offered federal loans from the DOE. You must take out private loans, so that our shareholders can get commission from your private loans"?

 

[BMBiology]

Just because they claim so on their website does not mean that it is true. I have friends at this school who said that the president and vice president lied to their students about trying to get federal loans, but in fact, they were actually offered federal loans a long time ago, but rejected it so that their shareholders can get commission from the private loans from iHelp. After hundreds of students protested and demanded an in-person answer, the administration finally caved in and admit that they were continuing the lie all this time, and that they rejected the federal loans a long time ago.

Do you honestly think the president will say the truth on the website and say, "We are a for-profit school, so we have a fiduciary duty to prioritize our shareholders, so that we do not get sued by our shareholders. For this reason, we have rejected the offered federal loans from the DOE. You must take out private loans, so that our shareholders can get commission from your private loans"?

Why didn't the students contact the DOE to verify? This sounds simple enough.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why didn't the students contact the DOE to verify? This sounds simple enough.

Yeah, FOIA request right there.

 

[babybull]

Yikes. Someone needs to hop over to the CNUCOP thread and do the basic financial calculations for them.

 

[steveysmith54]

From what I remember in 2012, cncp didn't receive full accreditation even though that was their first graduating class. Anyone remember why?

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Why didn't the students contact the DOE to verify? This sounds simple enough.

They did (they = P3 students), but by the time they did, they fell prey to sunk cost fallacy (meaning they thought that they were too far into the CNCOP program to turn back). If you mean why did the pre-pharmacy students not contact the DOE before even applying to pharmacy school, do you honestly believe anyone not even researching about the pharmacist job market prior to even applying to pharmacy school would have the foresight to research each school's financial aid policy prior to applying?

 

[BMBiology]

They did (they = P3 students), but by the time they did, they fell prey to sunk cost fallacy (meaning they thought that they were too far into the CNCOP program to turn back). If you mean why did the pre-pharmacy students not contact the DOE before even applying to pharmacy school, do you honestly believe anyone not even researching about the pharmacist job market prior to even applying to pharmacy school would have the foresight to research each school's financial aid policy prior to applying?

What did the DOE say then?

 

[Gombrich12]

$320k private with no IBR or PSLF release valve/options is absolutely financial suicide.

Has anyone looked into whether these loans can be discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy? I thought an accredited school had to offer Title IV student loans or else the corresponding private loans would not qualify the lender under the safe harbor provision.

Would be pretty easy for an unemployed pharmacist to file BK.

Under the US bankruptcy code and exceptions to discharge you find this:

(8)unless excepting such debt from discharge under this paragraph would impose an undue hardship on the debtor and the debtor’s dependents, for—
(A)
(i)
an educational benefit overpayment or loan made, insured, or guaranteed by a governmental unit, or made under any program funded in whole or in part by a governmental unit or nonprofit institution; or
(ii)
an obligation to repay funds received as an educational benefit, scholarship, or stipend; or
(B)
any other educational loan that is a qualified education loan, as defined in section 221(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, incurred by a debtor who is an individual;

The term “qualified education loan” means any indebtedness incurred by the taxpayer solely to pay qualified higher education expenses—

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/523
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/221

They really need to bring back private student loan bankruptcy, the Obama admin released a paper recommending just that at the beginning of October.

 

[BMBiology]

Why would you need student loan bankruptcy when there is income based repayment? If you don't make anything then you don't pay anything. Furthermore, interest rate would jump if more people are allow to declare bankruptcy.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why would you need student loan bankruptcy when there is income based repayment? If you don't make anything then you don't pay anything. Furthermore, interest rate would jump if more people are allow to declare bankruptcy.

He said private loans

 

[rxlea]

The students are the idiots in this equation.

 

[confettiflyer]

any other educational loan that is a qualified education loan, as defined in section 221(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, incurred by a debtor who is an individual;

I think the key here is that the loan itself is not a qualified educational loan, here's my legal theory (more like derived from others):

26 USC 25A(f)(2): "Eligible educational institution - The term "eligible educational institution" means an institution - (A) which is described in section 481 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1088), as in effect on the date of the enactment of this section, and (B) which is eligible to participate in a program under title IV of such Act."

And IRS Publication 970 (page 37) defines an eligible educational institution as: "any college, university, vocational school, or other postsecondary educational institution eligible to participate in a student aid program administered by the U.S. Department of Education. It includes virtually all accredited public, nonprofit, and proprietary (privately owned profit-making) postsecondary institutions. The educational institution should be able to tell you if it is an eligible educational institution."


Bolded = my emphasis. The key here is whether this school is eligible for Title IV funding or any other DOE program -- eligible vs. actually going through with it are two distinctions that I'm unable to explore here. There could be an argument that those students that graduated within the first or second class prior to WASC accreditation and face the standard BK Ch 7 undue hardship test have a case for discharge.

 

[genesis09]

I don't grasp why people would want private student loans. They don't have the protections and programs like the federal loans.

 

[Digsbe]

I bet with private loans the interest is compounded on day 1 and builds through school unlike federal loans that don't compound until you enter repayment. With interest they will graduate with more than 320k in debt assuming no debt in undergrad.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

I bet with private loans the interest is compounded on day 1 and builds through school unlike federal loans that don't compound until you enter repayment. With interest they will graduate with more than 320k in debt assuming no debt in undergrad.

The unsubsidized and Grad Plus federal loans start compounding on the day of disbursement. Only the subsidized federal loans "don't" compound, which I believe is just the government paying the interest for you.

 

[Digsbe]

The unsubsidized and Grad Plus federal loans start compounding on the day of disbursement. Only the subsidized federal loans "don't" compound, which I believe is just the government paying the interest for you.

The interest builds on the principal, but it doesn't compound onto the principal until you enter repayment.

 

[BMBiology]

I don't grasp why people would want private student loans. They don't have the protections and programs like the federal loans.

They are the same people who will complain about how the school and the government cheated them when they can't pay back their loans.

 

[BMBiology]

California Northstate is not the only school in California that doesn't provide federal student loans. California Health Sciences University doesn't as well. This one was founded by a banker! LOL

http://chsu.org/prospective-students/2015-2016-tuition-financial-aid/#tuition

David Hawkins is the founding dean for both schools. Of course he ditched them before the schools received full accreditation.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

320K student debt and trying to work in San Jose sounds like financial suicide, irregardless of the type of loan. I'd never do that.



You need to slap your friend and wake her up big time; she's walking off the cliff. She's going to be in a world of hurt.

But what if she still refuses to withdraw from CNCOP?

 

[BMBiology]

But what if she still refuses to withdraw from CNCOP?

That means she doesn't love you. The end.

 

[PharmtoCS]

But what if she still refuses to withdraw from CNCOP?

Why does she want to go into pharmacy? If it has anything to do with a six-figure salary, work-life balance, being in an in-demand field, not working retail, and being able to afford to live in San Jose then she should switch to computer science. She might be able to have all of the above without having to owe $250k in private student loans.

 

[confettiflyer]

Sorry but San Jose/Silicon Valley is an incredibly impacted region with an OVER OVER abundance of pharmacists. Put it this way, I'm a 3+ year residency trained BCPS credentialed pharmacist and I would have a moderately difficult time getting a job in San Jose.

Also....a I hope they're marrying rich, because goodluck affording the median house price of like $1M on a measly pharmacist salary. Unless you have stock options vesting, you're gonna be renting or commuting from the boonies.

So much dumb in this thread, too. Ugh.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

What did the DOE say then?

They said that CNCOP rejected the loans.

Why does she want to go into pharmacy? If it has anything to do with a six-figure salary, work-life balance, being in an in-demand field, not working retail, and being able to afford to live in San Jose then she should switch to computer science. She might be able to have all of the above without having to owe $250k in private student loans.

Well she already enrolled at CNCOP. This is her 1st semester. She wants to go to pharmacy school because she enjoyed her work as a pharmacy technician.

 

[Gombrich12]

I think the key here is that the loan itself is not a qualified educational loan, here's my legal theory (more like derived from others):

26 USC 25A(f)(2): "Eligible educational institution - The term "eligible educational institution" means an institution - (A) which is described in section 481 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1088), as in effect on the date of the enactment of this section, and (B) which is eligible to participate in a program under title IV of such Act."

And IRS Publication 970 (page 37) defines an eligible educational institution as: "any college, university, vocational school, or other postsecondary educational institution eligible to participate in a student aid program administered by the U.S. Department of Education. It includes virtually all accredited public, nonprofit, and proprietary (privately owned profit-making) postsecondary institutions. The educational institution should be able to tell you if it is an eligible educational institution."


Bolded = my emphasis. The key here is whether this school is eligible for Title IV funding or any other DOE program -- eligible vs. actually going through with it are two distinctions that I'm unable to explore here. There could be an argument that those students that graduated within the first or second class prior to WASC accreditation and face the standard BK Ch 7 undue hardship test have a case for discharge.

You're right with regards to the qualified education loan. The way I'm reading this though means they aren't an eligible institution unless they explicitly enter into a program participation agreement. That can't be correct though, otherwise you'd see all sorts of student loans being discharged from fly by night schools.

(a) Date of eligibility.

(1)If the Secretary determines that an applicant institution satisfies all the statutory and regulatory eligibility requirements, the Secretary considers the institution to be an eligible institution as of the date—

(i)The Secretary signs the institution's program participation agreement described in34 CFR part 668, subpart B, for purposes of participating in any title IV, HEA program; and
(ii) The Secretary receives all the information necessary to make that determination for purposes other than participating in any title IV, HEA program.

​

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/34/600.10

 

[Gombrich12]

Reading this court decision it seems like these loans ARE eligible to be discharged in bankruptcy.

I'm speculating these private lenders don't even care about the prospect of bankruptcy because they are securitizing into groups of loans and selling them like they did with those ****ty mortgages. Madness.

 

[BMBiology]

Sorry but San Jose/Silicon Valley is an incredibly impacted region with an OVER OVER abundance of pharmacists. Put it this way, I'm a 3+ year residency trained BCPS credentialed pharmacist and I would have a moderately difficult time getting a job in San Jose.

Also....a I hope they're marrying rich, because goodluck affording the median house price of like $1M on a measly pharmacist salary. Unless you have stock options vesting, you're gonna be renting or commuting from the boonies.

So much dumb in this thread, too. Ugh.

Would some rich guy want to marry someone with that much debt? Can the government say since she is staying at home taking care of the kids, he is also responsible for her loans?

 

[barkrough]

Just because they claim so on their website does not mean that it is true. I have friends at this school who said that the president and vice president lied to their students about trying to get federal loans, but in fact, they were actually offered federal loans a long time ago, but rejected it so that their shareholders can get commission from the private loans from iHelp. After hundreds of students protested and demanded an in-person answer, the administration finally caved in and admit that they were continuing the lie all this time, and that they rejected the federal loans a long time ago.

Do you honestly think the president will say the truth on the website and say, "We are a for-profit school, so we have a fiduciary duty to prioritize our shareholders, so that we do not get sued by our shareholders. For this reason, we have rejected the offered federal loans from the DOE. You must take out private loans, so that our shareholders can get commission from your private loans"?

Do you or does anyone know someone that attended California Northstate and has some sort of proof that the school said they were applying for federal financial aid?

 

[wysdoc]

The last post on this thread was in 2015.
@barkrough try the current thread here for questions 2023-2024 California Northstate
or contact the school for information