36 hour shifts?!

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xholliesterx

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Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

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Well, while the show ER isn't fully realistic, you will have 36 hour shifts when you do certain rotations. For things like ER rotations, no 36 hours there. But for surgery... better hook up the caffeine IV... and pray for shift where few people have to get cut!!!

Good luck!
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:


you will learn to love coffee young one... oh.. how you will learn!!! ;)
 
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xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

seeing your other thread about cardiology, know that the hours for cards is especially bad... ;)
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

n00b
 
Residents are limited to 30 hour shifts, the last 6 hours which are only for continuity of care (e.g. no new patients). Of course programs may violate the ACGME rules. I believe that the Emergency Medicine RRC actually has more restrictive rules.

Of course there are no restrictions on medical student hours.

Ed
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

Jack Bauer can only work 24 hours shifts! You're telling me I have to go 50% longer than JACK FRIGGIN' BAUER!!???!!??
 
Senior year is a great time to practice staying up :). Go out and then try to stay up doing your homework - all in the name of preparing for the future, of course. No pretenses *cough*.
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

Looks like someone hasn't been doing their homework.
 
thesmartazz said:
Senior year is a great time to practice staying up :). Go out and then try to stay up doing your homework - all in the name of preparing for the future, of course. No pretenses *cough*.

Close down the bars at 6am, then off to your morning run, and then to class, but do pause for red beans and rice at noon.
 
dustinlevengood said:
So your saying you can barely make it threw a normal workday without a lunch..I work 10 hours a day right now thats already 2 more then you can stay up..you may wanna look into a different field..like...bein a bum..my roommate is usually only awake about 8 hours a day :D

I've got a roommate like that too! I'll come home at 5:30 pm and she's just waking up. And then she's usually back in bed before I am! She's a great person (and she does have to live through my bouts of premed insanity), but her sleeping habits never cease to amaze me.
 
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lsumedgirl said:
Well, while the show ER isn't fully realistic, you will have 36 hour shifts when you do certain rotations. For things like ER rotations, no 36 hours there. But for surgery... better hook up the caffeine IV... and pray for shift where few people have to get cut!!!

Good luck!


actually it's better when there are more people getting cut cause being in the OR and doing some work makes it easier to stay up. it's when you sit down somewhere and fall half asleep and then get woken up by the pager, that's painful.
 
ADeadLois said:
Jack Bauer can only work 24 hours shifts! You're telling me I have to go 50% longer than JACK FRIGGIN' BAUER!!???!!??


Yeah but for some reason Jack Bauer tends to complete 24 hours awake in about 5 months.


Hows that Jack Bauer for ya??
 
Slide said:
Looks like someone hasn't been doing their homework.

oh, Ive been doing my homework, I just make sure I do it all before 12 am! im good like that!
 
dustinlevengood said:
So your saying you can barely make it threw a normal workday without a lunch..I work 10 hours a day right now thats already 2 more then you can stay up..you may wanna look into a different field..like...bein a bum..my roommate is usually only awake about 8 hours a day :D

Okay, technically I can stay up for a lot longer on most days, just saying... I dont like to and I get sleepy! :sleep:
 
xholliesterx said:
Okay, technically I can stay up for a lot longer on most days, just saying... I dont like to and I get sleepy! :sleep:
Well hon it all depends which specialty you pursue. Rads and psych are pretty cushy....
 
That's part of the fun and excitement of being a doctor!!! wooo
 
Why are there so many highschoolers on this board now?
 
I wish you would stop making threads. We call this quiet time. READ a few of the other 03248-23482384234-92375423- topics.
 
xholliesterx said:
oh, Ive been doing my homework, I just make sure I do it all before 12 am! im good like that!
the reference was to the 'homework' you should be doing with regards to choosing a career wisely.... to answer your question, I was talking to one of the residents (at a USF affiliated hospital, so this is relative to you)...asked her when her shift had started, she replied '5am yesterday'...and this was at 7pm. You will learn to love coffee, trust me :p
 
are 36 hour shifts also the reason why doctors kill so many patients?

sorry, i've always found this a lil pathetic. Doctors think they're so tough and mighty. They're doing the most important job in the world and giving them this many consecutive hours is BS!
 
mac_kin said:
are 36 hour shifts also the reason why doctors kill so many patients?

sorry, i've always found this a lil pathetic. Doctors think they're so tough and mighty. They're doing the most important job in the world and giving them this many consecutive hours is BS!

The longer shifts are mostly during residency, and serve purpose to expose the resident to as many different cases as possible in the years that they are training......but, I also believe that the hours are as such because of an "I had to do it, so you should to" type of attitude...or making sure only the most dedicated choose the field...once a system is in place, it is hard to break.

I dont believe doctors think they are "so tough and mighty" though :laugh: OR
(and Im prolly going to get some hate for this) that it is necessarily the 'most important job in the world'...
 
Pose said:
I wish you would stop making threads. We call this quiet time. READ a few of the other 03248-23482384234-92375423- topics.

Pose, I'm assuming you're referring to the recent proliferation of xholliesterx threads? If so, *ditto* from me!
 
Yes, there are many studies out there showing the effect of sleep deprivation on patient care, medical errors, judgement, etcetera.

I also think of it this way: Making 30-50k a year, residents are fairly cheap labor for hospitals. They work up to 80 hours a week (or more unofficially) and they aren't nearly as costly as attendings but yet they can perform many of the same tasks.
 
The longer shifts are mostly during residency, and serve purpose to expose the resident to as many different cases as possible in the years that they are training......but, I also believe that the hours are as such because of an "I had to do it, so you should to" type of attitude...or making sure only the most dedicated choose the field...once a system is in place, it is hard to break.

That's what I've heard too...the resistance behind previous efforts to block 80-hour workweek instead of the staggering 100+ is the mentality that "I had to do this, so you should too". I think Law2Doc posted a great post on the flaw of this mentality and why an 80 hour workweek makes more sense now - from what I recall, the patient turnaround these days is much shorter. Back in the 70s and 80s, residents would treat fewer patients, and thus spend more time with each patient. The extra hours were just meant for the resident to be ready at any time the patient needed care. However, some portion of that time was just dead time, used to relax or stand on call, or do light menial paperwork.
Later on, hospitals began to get patients out of the hospital quicker, so residents had to see many more patients in the same time period, and as a result, residents had less downtime. Plus, as insurance grew and profit became more of an issue, hospitals used residents for just about everything - scut work, paperwork, errands, etc. - rather than using more employees to do the same work. It eventually spiraled out of control to the point that residents were burned out and could no longer perform their duties at their proper capacity. The results were subpar treatment, mistakes in critical procedures, and even cases of residents in car crashes on the way home because they fell asleep/collapsed from exhaustion.

But back to the main point, I think that hospitals lost sight of the purpose of residents, and such a restoration of this purpose is in need.
 
At least in my state, the longest allowed resident shift is 30 hours. Note, you may or my not get sleep during that time. From experience (school then to work once a week averaging being awake for 24+ hours from Thursday morning to friday morning), 24 isn't bad, and given another heart attack in a can (redbull) I could easily go the extra six hours.

For more info on this topic, please google the AMSA (american medical student association), they are a union who have been fighting the insane resident work hours.
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

Hi there,
The rules for residency have changed. You may not work more than 30 hours with no new patients after 24 hours. You may not work more than 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. You must have one day out of seven off with no patient care responsibilites.

You get used to working the overnight call shifts. They are a fact of life during residency. If not, better change professions before you get much more in debt.

Even in surgery, (I am a PGY-4 general surgery resident), the overnight shifts are not that bad. You learn to cat nap and you learn to rest when you can. I am not a coffee drinker. I do keep hydrated though.

njbmd :)
 
Med_Leviathan said:
Why are there so many highschoolers on this board now?
I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm a sophomore in college?
 
IHaveLab said:
Pose, I'm assuming you're referring to the recent proliferation of xholliesterx threads? If so, *ditto* from me!


Jeez, a person can't ask some questions? You people are dinguses who think you know it all.
 
njbmd said:
They are a fact of life during residency. If not, better change professions before you get much more in debt.
njbmd :)

I guess Im one of the few that won't be in debt. Daddy's takin' care of me.
 
xholliesterx said:
Jeez, a person can't ask some questions? You people are dinguses who think you know it all.

Right. You ARE talking to premed students... we're smart people. We're not all "dinguses", but it's true there are plenty of people on here who are very critical of other people. It's to your benefit, however; these are the kind of criticisms that will pop up in your interviews and on your rotations. School of hard knocks -- have to learn to take it in stride and deal with the topic at hand instead of the people who are being critical.

It's not about asking questions -- people ask questions all the time -- but I think others have an issue with your comments and tone. You've started a couple different threads that sound a lot like, "Everybody look at me! I'm going to be a cardiologist! Look! Look!"

You would be annoyed if someone did that to you too. It's great that you admire the heart. But you may become a cardiologist. You may get the fellowship. Just acknowledge the uncertainty and say you're hopeful like the rest of us.

You're just as sick of hearing "Well, we'll see how you feel about it once you're in medical school" as people are sick of hearing "If I don't become X doctor, MY LIFE IS OVER." Your life would not be over. There's no reason to be that dramatic except to draw attention to yourself. It's futile anyway -- it's not like someone is going to let you be a cardiologist because they feel bad for you... "Oh, she said she'd die if she couldn't be a cardiologist, we should make her one." There are better ways to show that you are passionate about the field.

I would hope you could just be cool about it. If people ask you, you can say, "Yes, I intend to apply to med school and follow my interest in cardiology." No one will hold that against you.

And if you still think I'm an dingus, I don't know what to tell you. Just my perspective, for better or for worse, from a guy who KNOWS he doesn't know everything.
 
IHaveLab said:
Pose, I'm assuming you're referring to the recent proliferation of xholliesterx threads? If so, *ditto* from me!

It must be part of a competition with DrMota to see who can post the stupidest crap on here.
 
xholliesterx said:
I guess Im one of the few that won't be in debt. Daddy's takin' care of me.

Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that probably wasn't the best thing to post.
 
First you make a thread about how you are destined to be a cardiologist...yet dont know what IM is, or even how to get into cardiology. Now you make a thread about 36 hour shifts, and complain about how you cant stay up for 8 hours. Then brag about daddy paying your bills. Forgive us if we dont take you sersiously, and get annoyed at your several threads per day trend.
 
xholliesterx said:
I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm a sophomore in college?

uh...how is that a question?
 
BaylorGuy said:
Yeah but for some reason Jack Bauer tends to complete 24 hours awake in about 5 months.


Hows that Jack Bauer for ya??

I'd be careful if i were you, norris and bauer have an alliance.
 
Here's something I still don't really understand: why is it necessary for residents to work (WORK, as opposed to merely be at the hospital) for 36 hours straight, or 30 for that matter? What exactly is going on at 2AM that you can't sleep? Are there emergencies all night long, one after the other? If the common lore were that residents merely had to be at the hospital for 36 hours, I wouldn't find that unusual at all, but what everyone seems to say is that you literally have to work, non stop, from about 7AM one day till 6PM the next, with maybe at most a quick cat nap or 2 overnight. What exactly happens overnight that prevents residents from sleeping most of the night except for a couple of brief pages?
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:

Shifts in the ER are typically 12 hours.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
Here's something I still don't really understand: why is it necessary for residents to work (WORK, as opposed to merely be at the hospital) for 36 hours straight, or 30 for that matter? What exactly is going on at 2AM that you can't sleep? Are there emergencies all night long, one after the other? If the common lore were that residents merely had to be at the hospital for 36 hours, I wouldn't find that unusual at all, but what everyone seems to say is that you literally have to work, non stop, from about 7AM one day till 6PM the next, with maybe at most a quick cat nap or 2 overnight. What exactly happens overnight that prevents residents from sleeping most of the night except for a couple of brief pages?


You get new patients that you have to examine, admit, write orders for, etc. The nurses call with all kinds of questions. Patients code. So on, and so forth.
 
Oh yeah, before I begin, I have no experience whatsoever with residency, so yada yada yada grain of salt.

daisy958 said:
The longer shifts are mostly during residency, and serve purpose to expose the resident to as many different cases as possible in the years that they are training......but, I also believe that the hours are as such because of an "I had to do it, so you should to" type of attitude...or making sure only the most dedicated choose the field...once a system is in place, it is hard to break.


More than anything, residency is important because all of the different cases you see. Even though sleep deprivation does increase the probability of students making mistakes, it would be even worse if they didn't encounter so many different cases. Also, Daisy is correct in saying that it's just an age-old tradition, and about half of medicine is still old-fashioned (I'm still waiting on a bluetooth stethoscope :D )

Sponge said:
And my personal favorite:
the metered dose inhaler

Honestly, I'd like to know: 1. Does that give you a sudden burst of energy (you know, like Popeye eating spinach?) and 2. Why is it that no health organization has banned this? There's got to be SOMETHING unhealthy about injecting yourself with 150 mg of Caffeine.

xholliesterx said:
I guess Im one of the few that won't be in debt. Daddy's takin' care of me.

*Wedgie

And yeah, there's still a lot to learn before you become a cardiologist. But don't sweat it. One last thing: coming from a dude at the bottom of the barrel, learn to be humble! :luck:
-Dr. P.
 
n3ur05ur930n said:
Well hon it all depends which specialty you pursue. Rads and psych are pretty cushy....

There are no fields in medicine that are so cushy that you aren't expected to be awake more than 8 hours per day. Even the lifestyle specialties are going to expect significantly better than 50 hour work weeks (without naps). And frankly, someone whose day is only 8 hours long isn't going to be able to study hard enough in med school to get into one of the more coveted lifestyle specialties.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
Here's something I still don't really understand: why is it necessary for residents to work (WORK, as opposed to merely be at the hospital) for 36 hours straight, or 30 for that matter? What exactly is going on at 2AM that you can't sleep? Are there emergencies all night long, one after the other? If the common lore were that residents merely had to be at the hospital for 36 hours, I wouldn't find that unusual at all, but what everyone seems to say is that you literally have to work, non stop, from about 7AM one day till 6PM the next, with maybe at most a quick cat nap or 2 overnight. What exactly happens overnight that prevents residents from sleeping most of the night except for a couple of brief pages?

Patients get sick at different times. And yes emergencies come in 24/7. People aren't always considerate enough to have their gunfights or heart attacks or car accidents or respiratory distress, or apendicitis or babies during the 9 to 5 work day. Go figure.
(If your post was serious, you really should find a way to shadow a doctor or volunteer someplace in the hospital overnight. You will be enlightened.)
 
xholliesterx said:
Do they seriously make residents and doctors work for 36 hours like on ER? I can barely stay away for 8 hours and I hate coffee. I am in trouble! :scared:


Can't stay awake for 8 hours? Honestly?
You might have a health problem to look into if you have trouble staying awake for 8-10 hours.


On another note, drinking plenty of water helps with sleepiness. If I don't get adequate sleep though, Monster's low cal energy drink is the stuff! It lasts just long enough to get you through the day, but wears off in time so you can sleep. Better than Dr. Pepper!
 
Is anyone here caffeine tolerant? In order for caffeine to affect me, I have to drink copious amounts of that stuff and when I say copious I mean like a dozen cups of coffee. Red bulls do nothing for me either. The only thing that has worked for me were these pills called stacker 2. If I took them on an empty stomach, then I was bouncing of the walls and my mood was on cloud 9. However, you'd probably die if you took them everyday just to stay awake, they're supposed to be fat burning.
 
MirrorTodd said:
Is anyone here caffeine tolerant? In order for caffeine to affect me, I have to drink copious amounts of that stuff and when I say copious I mean like a dozen cups of coffee. Red bulls do nothing for me either. The only thing that has worked for me were these pills called stacker 2. If I took them on an empty stomach, then I was bouncing of the walls and my mood was on cloud 9. However, you'd probably die if you took them everyday just to stay awake, they're supposed to be fat burning.

If you stay totally off caffeine for a couple of weeks you can make it work for you again. You will go through a nasty headache of withdrawal, but once you have kicked it, a very little caffeine will give you a decent effect again.
 
MirrorTodd said:
Is anyone here caffeine tolerant? In order for caffeine to affect me, I have to drink copious amounts of that stuff and when I say copious I mean like a dozen cups of coffee. Red bulls do nothing for me either. The only thing that has worked for me were these pills called stacker 2. If I took them on an empty stomach, then I was bouncing of the walls and my mood was on cloud 9. However, you'd probably die if you took them everyday just to stay awake, they're supposed to be fat burning.


Kinda.
It gives me just enough to keep from falling asleep. I'm still tired and groggy, but when it's time to sleep, I can't. Then the next day I'm even more sleep deprived. It's a viscious cycle so I stay away from caffeine and rarely ever have it.

I would imagine the energy drinks would have more caffeine than other drinks, but I can sleep at night.
 
Wackie said:
Kinda.
It gives me just enough to keep from falling asleep. I'm still tired and groggy, but when it's time to sleep, I can't. Then the next day I'm even more sleep deprived. It's a viscious cycle so I stay away from caffeine and rarely ever have it.

I would imagine the energy drinks would have more caffeine than other drinks, but I can sleep at night.

I personally prefer tea. It's milder and there is more of a variety in flavor. You should try it some time.
 
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