36 MCAT, 3.6.3.3 GPA. Strong EC. No acceptance. Next step?

[mehc012]

Now you're just being combative.

105k in wasted money isn't a strong reason? It's wrong to supplement an existing line of reasoning?

No, the fact that OP is completely ineligible for the Columbia postbacc makes it something that has no relevance to them. There's nothing to add...it's not an argument that needs boosting or a discussion that will help them make a decision, it's just something that's completely not on the table for them. Discussing the merits of attending the Columbia postbac in this thread is now as relevant as discussing whether I should apply for a job in a top law firm: I don't have the prereqs, so I can't, so it's not a relevant discussion. Steering this thread into a discussion of whether or not that 105k is a waste is just derailing at that point.

This person seems to have their own opinions and refuses to listen to anyone else, and won't explain anything either

I do have my own opinions. Most humans do.
Sorry, but a 3.5/32 is in no way similar to a 3.3/36. Both 3.5 and 32 are strong stats that may not specifically open doors for you at any given school, but likely won't close them. Whether you get in or not will be due to the rest of your app, really.

In contrast, a 3.3/36 is an unbalanced set of stats, which tend to raise eyebrows and red flags. It includes a gpa that may indeed close many doors for you, but also an MCAT that starts to open them.

Just because the final LizzyM is the same doesn't make the application strategy or the odds of success even remotely similar. Jumping in on this thread for advice on a completely dissimilar situation is, again, derailing. I'm not going into great detail on your case here because this isn't the thread for it, just as it's not the thread to discuss whether Columbia postbacc is worth the $$$. If you open your own thread, particularly in WAMC where they help out with school lists all day everyday, you'll get more useful replies without hijacking.

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[Lawpy]

I get that. But I do see a lot of people on here that get in with 3.3 sgpa and good mcat scores like the OP. I get that sgpa is important, but I don't think a bad one rules you out of an interview.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing. However, a low science GPA is still a red flag. Your situation does not apply because you have an above average MCAT for MD matriculants and average/above average GPA. A 3.3 sGPA is a problem that is difficult to be overriden with even a strong MCAT (that's why the priority is sGPA > MCAT).

Regarding OP's case, i don't like recommending SMP in any case, mainly because i think it's a huge risk/low reward type of deal. Yeah MD schools would like you for acing a master's that resembles MS1, but it's unnecessary stress. Safe bet is to retry MD and apply DO on the side.

 

[mehc012]

I get that. But I do see a lot of people on here that get in with 3.3 sgpa and good mcat scores like the OP. I get that sgpa is important, but I don't think a bad one rules you out of an interview.

It can, if you don't explain it in some way, overcome it, compensate for it, etc. I see Lawper is doing a good job of pulling some data to show this to you. I also recommend the statistics linked above which show how gpa/MCAT affect your odds of acceptance.

Not only are the chances of getting in with balanced stats much higher, but the application strategy is totally different. Trust me, there are enough folks on SDN that you can find examples of people with much more similar situations to your own (I'd suggest searching "Thread Titles Only" in the WAMC forums for your stats), or even post your own thread with more info than just stats where people will voluntarily give you good, personalized, advice.

 

[Kelly11]

From the Essential SDN Wisdom sticky:

Note that the priorities (measured by mean importance ratings) are organized in a descending order according to the above Footnote 1. In regards to academics, the AAMC survey highlights that

science GPA > MCAT total score > upward/downward GPA trends > cumulative undergrad GPA > performance in a post-bacc program > selectivity of undergraduate institutions (for private medical schools) (all are of highest importance)

That's very interesting. Looks like i'm in trouble though! Because my sgpa isn't too great, and my trend is actually not very good. I guess i'll hope i'm one of the lucky ones that get in here with subpar gpa lol

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

No, the fact that OP is completely ineligible for the Columbia postbacc makes it something that has no relevance to them. There's nothing to add...it's not an argument that needs boosting or a discussion that will help them make a decision, it's just something that's completely not on the table for them. Discussing the merits of attending the Columbia postbac in this thread is now as relevant as discussing whether I should apply for a job in a top law firm: I don't have the prereqs, so I can't, so it's not a relevant discussion. Steering this thread into a discussion of whether or not that 105k is a waste is just derailing at that point.

I do have my own opinions. Most humans do.
Sorry, but a 3.5/32 is in no way similar to a 3.3/36. Both 3.5 and 32 are strong stats that may not specifically open doors for you at any given school, but likely won't close them. Whether you get in or not will be due to the rest of your app, really.

In contrast, a 3.3/36 is an unbalanced set of stats, which tend to raise eyebrows and red flags. It includes a gpa that may indeed close many doors for you, but also an MCAT that starts to open them. Just because the final LizzyM is the same doesn't make the application strategy or the odds of success even remotely similar. Jumping in on this thread for advice on a completely dissimilar situation is, again, derailing. I'm not going into great detail on your case here because this isn't the thread for it, just as it's not the thread to discuss whether Columbia postbacc is worth the $$$.

For the love of Allah:

 

[Lawpy]

That's very interesting. Looks like i'm in trouble though! Because my sgpa isn't too great, and my trend is actually not very good. I guess i'll hope i'm one of the lucky ones that get in here with subpar gpa lol

A 3.5 sGPA is fine.

 

[GrapesofRath]

People do realize for that chart everybody loves referencing that the differences between an sGPA and MCAT is about a 3.7 vs 3.5? In other words out of a survey of 120 med schools, it's about the equivalent of maybe a dozen saying they value sGPA over MCAT? In a survey from 2011, cumulative GPA actually came in ahead over MCAT: the take away message is these are really minute differences not that all of a sudden the MCAT is given more weight or something along those lines. In fact, there are schools in MSAR where 10th percentile GPAs are proportionalilty much higher than 10th percentile MCATs which could highlight individual schools where GPA>MCAT that are in the relative minority but make up the difference in the survey.
https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

The best answer is really what is given more weight differs from evaluator to evaluator. Best best is to assume theyll be given roughly equal weight. And as gonnif says often the numerical value behind the GPA isnt as important as the overall trend and what the academic record speaks about the applicant. This is particularly true for those with discordant stats

For OP you are a good SMP candidate like I said above if the MD route doesnt work out this cycle. That's the route I would look to pursue if this cycle isnt successful. At the best SMP's often about 70% of people who start out in the program will end up at US MD programs(it's not an issue of you need to be at the top of the class or no med school like SDN portrays it as). Cant really ask for better odds: the ball's in your court when it comes to an SMP and you can dictate the letters behind your name and subsequently significantly influence/enhance your residency options amongst many other things through an SMP.

 

[mehc012]

Hi all,

Just to provide some background:
I have applied to medical school in the past two cycles - holding on to one waitlist spot currently, and I pray that it works out, but I am trying to plan ahead in case things don't go well there.

Stats:
36 MCAT (will expire for all but ~20 schools in the upcoming cycle)
3.6 GPA/ 3.3 sGPA

Retaking the MCAT is a factor whichever route you take (more's the pity), so let's set that aside for now. The GPA, well...that's what we're going to focus on, right?

7-8 Publications (2nd author or lower), multiple years of full time research employment at Ivy League institution
300+ hours of volunteering in a hospital
5000+ hours of clinical/basic science research in total
200+ hours of shadowing

Damn, son! I'd say there's definitely diminishing (read: zero-no) benefit in further research unless you really love it and it's paying your bills. Throwing in a bit more non-clinical volunteering could help you appeal more to the mid-range school, many of which are great schools which would love your MCAT but tend to choose mission fit over stats. I think that a big factor for my rapid waitlist acceptance was that my interviews and updates talked about a program I began which demonstrated a commitment to help a specific underserved group in the US. What's your passion? Who do you want to make a difference for? Show that outside the hospital, and then draw connections to your clinical experiences.

PLAN A: High risk, high reward?
- Take some core science courses over the summer (June-August, 9 credits) and retake a couple of bourses I got a B- in - can take my sGPA to 3.4 with 5 As.
- Continue volunteering and research
Retake MCAT in 2 months - keep in mind, I have been out of school for 3 years, and it will be hard to replicate my 97th percentile score in just two months of preparation.

Again, the MCAT is really the same either way. You say in 2mo, but why? You have to retake the MCAT again anyway, and you need time to do some gpa repair. Don't rush this. The ticking clock is off, now, and all reports show that you need to take a break and reassess how you apply. Don't try to squeeze 3 summer courses and MCAT studying into 2mo. You'll only end up shooting yourself in the foot. By all means, take 3 summer courses (no work on top...3 summer courses is no joke. If you need to work, take fewer) - but then take 3 fall courses (job is possible), and 3 spring ones, give yourself all summer to study for the MCAT, and then apply next year with 20-something credits of reinvention, new MCAT, fresh ECs, and a story.

If you go this route - and it's the one I chose, roughly, so I'm naturally biased towards it - don't bother retaking jack unless you're applying DO. Take new courses upper level courses, and knock them out of the park!

PLAN B: Likely the wiser plan? (More expensive too - $40k?)
-Don't apply this year - do an SMP to boost my sGPA (NYMC or Rutgers 1 year program)
-Retake MCAT in January or April with more preparation
-Continue volunteering and research
-Take a few undergrad courses this summer to boost sGPA a little bit? (Unsure if necessary with SMP)

First, as stated elsewhere, this doesn't boost your sGPA, it merely compensates for it.
I'm not sure I'd call this the wiser plan as much as the quicker one...you're basically paying for a shortcut. BUT...remember, high reward, high risk. If you screw up the SMP, you are essentially DONE. So don't work during it, don't study for the MCAT during it, etc. You'll not only take med student classes, you'll do so knowing that not being top of the class means no med school, $40k down the drain, and a degree that won't help you anywhere else. If anything, this works against the classic model of patient wisdom, but it has definitely worked for some people.

Thank you all for your advice in advance, and please feel free to suggest something new/different. All advice is good advice. If you know of any other SMP programs I should look at in the NY area, please feel free to talk about it as well.

Really, at the end of the day, there's more to it than simply boosting/compensating for your gpa. When you get back to the app stage, make a WAMC post. Message everyone with a similar background, who made it, message adcoms, etc. Find a story in your app and tell it - and then find schools that fit/like that story. This is both the hardest and the most essential part of applying to med school, especially if your app deviates in any way from the standard.

I wish you luck. Any more questions, feel free to ask!

 

[mehc012]

People do realize for that chart everybody loves referencing that the differences between an sGPA and MCAT is about a 3.7 vs 3.5? In other words out of a survey of 120 med schools, it's about the equivalent of maybe a dozen saying they value sGPA over MCAT? In a survey from 2011, cumulative GPA actually came in ahead over MCAT: the take away message is these are really minute differences not that all of a sudden the MCAT is given more weight or something along those lines. In fact, there are schools in MSAR where 10th percentile GPAs are proportionalilty much higher than 10th percentile MCATs which could highlight individual schools where GPA>MCAT that are in the relative minority but make up the difference in the survey.
https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

The best answer is really what is given more weight differs from evaluator to evaluator. I think in a survey Kaplan had a half decade ago, about 45% of ADCOMs responded they give the MCAT the greatest weight which was about the same saying GPA is given greatest weight. That chart is a very rough guideline nothing more. Not something Id use to trump out "sGPA>MCAT" because of a 3.72 vs 3.57 or whatever the official numbers that are published are. Best bet is to assume both are given equal weight roughly. And as gonnif says often the "numerical" value behind the GPA is often not at all what's most important. General grade trend and what it says about an applicant is what is often of greatest focus, particularly for discordant stat applicants.

For OP you are a good SMP candidate like I said above if the MD route doesnt work out this cycle. That's the route I would look to pursue if this cycle isnt successful. At the best SMP's often about 70% of people who start out in the program will end up at US MD programs. Cant really ask for better odds: the ball's in your court when it comes to an SMP and you can dictate the letters behind your name and subsequently significantly influence/enhance your residency options amongst many other things through an SMP.

They're a decent SMP candidate, but they likely don't need one. At this point, and with these numbers, it's not just gpa. Those are get-in-able stats, especially if they take a year to work on them. SMPs are risks. Sometimes they pay off big, but they're best left as a last resort.

It's a worthwhile option for them to consider, for sure, as it will be marginally quicker...but let's not paint it as 100% rosy and optimal. You can't ask for better odds than a successful SMP; but you also can't ask for worse ones than an unsuccessful one, and sometimes the standards are TOUGH. You can be fit for med school and still not likely to be top of the curve there, and many SMPs are curved with the med students.

 

[mehc012]

For the love of Allah:

I'm not the one trying to reopen the notorious prestige vs cost debate on an unrelated thread. Sorry, but you've been around the forum long enough to know what a can of worms that is.

 

[GrapesofRath]

They're a decent SMP candidate, but they likely don't need one. At this point, and with these numbers, it's not just gpa. Those are get-in-able stats, especially if they take a year to work on them. SMPs are risks. Sometimes they pay off big, but they're best left as a last resort.

It's a worthwhile option for them to consider, for sure, as it will be marginally quicker...but let's not paint it as 100% rosy and optimal.

When you're a 3X applicant and a reapplicant at so many places youre behind the eight ball and at a clear disadvantage. A number of schools wont even consider 3rd time applicants and all while those that do it wont be an advantage to be one. Cant just compare a 1st time applicant to a 3rd time one. A 3X applicant with an MCAT this high is going to be perceived as a riskier candidate by a number of people.

I agree SMP's are risks but people on SDN misconstrue the risk-reward ratio regarding them out of proportion, largely because most of the people talking about them havent done one(I havent either). You can take a look for yourself at one as an example and see what % of the 32 who start out at the program end up at US MD schools (it's 75% historically for this one). Those who dont often get into DO's: you really have to tank an SMP badly with an MCAT this high not even for DO schools who often have 25 and 26 MCAT averages to pass on you. Im also of the belief there is a pro DO bias on this site that isnt necessairly grounded in reality and that the difference between MD vs DO is greater than many like to believe which is why I bring up SMPs as a viable option as well.
https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2015

Sometimes, when you are a 3X reapplicant you need to be more aggressive and do things to tilt the odds in your favor. Definitely more so than a first time applicant. I do agree though I would give it one more app cycle run before resorting to an SMP.

 

[Lawpy]

People do realize for that chart everybody loves referencing that the differences between an sGPA and MCAT is about a 3.7 vs 3.5? In other words out of a survey of 120 med schools, it's about the equivalent of maybe a dozen saying they value sGPA over MCAT? In a survey from 2011, cumulative GPA actually came in ahead over MCAT: the take away message is these are really minute differences not that all of a sudden the MCAT is given more weight or something along those lines. In fact, there are schools in MSAR where 10th percentile GPAs are proportionalilty much higher than 10th percentile MCATs which could highlight individual schools where GPA>MCAT that are in the relative minority but make up the difference in the survey.
https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

The best answer is really what is given more weight differs from evaluator to evaluator. Best best is to assume theyll be given roughly equal weight. And as gonnif says often the numerical value behind the GPA isnt as important as the overall trend and what the academic record speaks about the applicant. This is particularly true for those with discordant stats

For OP you are a good SMP candidate like I said above if the MD route doesnt work out this cycle. That's the route I would look to pursue if this cycle isnt successful. At the best SMP's often about 70% of people who start out in the program will end up at US MD programs(it's not an issue of you need to be at the top of the class or no med school like SDN portrays it as). Cant really ask for better odds: the ball's in your court when it comes to an SMP and you can dictate the letters behind your name and subsequently significantly influence/enhance your residency options amongst many other things through an SMP.

The AAMC survey shows general preferences of US MD schools. It is just a reference for the same reason why AAMC recommends averaging two MCAT scores of the same type (old and old, 2015 and 2015) and favoring the 2015 over the old. They are guidelines to help assess how US MD schools make decisions. US MD schools could do whatever they want behind closed doors but having a reference and guidelines help.

 

[mehc012]

When you're a 3X applicant and a reapplicant at so many places youre behind the eight ball and at a clear disadvantage. A number of schools wont even consider 3rd time applicants and all that do it wont be an advantage to be one. Cant just compare a 1st time applicant to a 3rd time one. A 3X applicant with an MCAT this high is going to be perceived as a riskier candidate by a number of people.

I agree SMP's are risks but people on SDN misconstrue the risk-reward ratio regarding them out of proportion, largely because most of the people talking about them havent done one(I havent either). You can take a look for yourself at one as an example and see how out of 32 people who start the program each year how many end up at MD schools(it's 75% historically for this one).
https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2015

Sometimes, when you are a 3X reapplicant you need to be more aggressive and do things to tilt the odds in your favor. Definitely more so than a first time applicant. I do agree though I would give it one more app cycle run before resorting to an SMP.

I didn't say that OP shouldn't consider one...I said that it shouldn't be presented without the risks being explained, and that those make it not a straightforward decision. Sounds like we're in agreement on that front!

Either way, he's not (or shouldn't be) applying again this cycle, so imo why not take the time to do it right? It's cheaper, lower risk, and gives them time to focus on shaping their app into a good story - something that was likely missing the first two times (I wouldn't be surprised if cycle 2 was a time-crunched rehash of the first, unsuccessful cycle). Really, with a decent cGPA, good MCAT, and strong ECs, the sGPA isn't really where I'm looking for OP's problem. It's not helping them, for sure, but there's something else missing.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I didn't say that OP shouldn't consider one...I said that it shouldn't be presented without the risks being explained, and that those make it not a straightforward decision. Sounds like we're in agreement on that front!

Either way, he's not (or shouldn't be) applying again this cycle, so imo why not take the time to do it right? It's cheaper, lower risk, and gives them time to focus on shaping their app into a good story - something that was likely missing the first two times (I wouldn't be surprised if cycle 2 was a time-crunched rehash of the first, unsuccessful cycle). Really, with a decent cGPA, good MCAT, and strong ECs, the sGPA isn't really where I'm looking for OP's problem. It's not helping them, for sure, but there's something else missing.

It sounded to me like maybe they are applying again this cycle(I wouldnt). But yeah, there is more that's going on here. Historically over half of people with these stats get an acceptance somewhere; it's hardly "3.3=deal breaker". 36 carries alot of weight as do the ECs. But as a 3rd time applicant now, the flaws in the app start becoming more and more detrimental and harder to overcome which is why Im more liberal with recommending an SMP to a reapplicant vs a 1st time applicant.

 

[mehc012]

It sounded to me like maybe they are applying again this cycle(I wouldnt). But yeah, there is more that's going on here. Historically over half of people with these stats get an acceptance somewhere; it's hardly "3.3=deal breaker". 36 carries alot of weight as do the ECs. But as a 3rd time applicant now, the flaws in the app start becoming more and more detrimental and harder to overcome which is why Im more liberal with recommending an SMP to a reapplicant vs a 1st time applicant.

Yeah, in Plan A they mentioned maybe applying again in 2mo, but they couldn't be with an SMP, since they haven't started one yet.

I also agree that applying in 2mo is a BAD idea.

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Retaking the MCAT is a factor whichever route you take (more's the pity), so let's set that aside for now. The GPA, well...that's what we're going to focus on, right?
Damn, son! I'd say there's definitely diminishing (read: zero-no) benefit in further research unless you really love it and it's paying your bills. Throwing in a bit more non-clinical volunteering could help you appeal more to the mid-range school, many of which are great schools which would love your MCAT but tend to choose mission fit over stats. I think that a big factor for my rapid waitlist acceptance was that my interviews and updates talked about a program I began which demonstrated a commitment to help a specific underserved group in the US. What's your passion? Who do you want to make a difference for? Show that outside the hospital, and then draw connections to your clinical experiences.

Again, the MCAT is really the same either way. You say in 2mo, but why? You have to retake the MCAT again anyway, and you need time to do some gpa repair. Don't rush this. The ticking clock is off, now, and all reports show that you need to take a break and reassess how you apply. Don't try to squeeze 3 summer courses and MCAT studying into 2mo. You'll only end up shooting yourself in the foot. By all means, take 3 summer courses (no work on top...3 summer courses is no joke. If you need to work, take fewer) - but then take 3 fall courses (job is possible), and 3 spring ones, give yourself all summer to study for the MCAT, and then apply next year with 20-something credits of reinvention, new MCAT, fresh ECs, and a story.

If you go this route - and it's the one I chose, roughly, so I'm naturally biased towards it - don't bother retaking jack unless you're applying DO. Take new courses upper level courses, and knock them out of the park!

First, as stated elsewhere, this doesn't boost your sGPA, it merely compensates for it.
I'm not sure I'd call this the wiser plan as much as the quicker one...you're basically paying for a shortcut. BUT...remember, high reward, high risk. If you screw up the SMP, you are essentially DONE. So don't work during it, don't study for the MCAT during it, etc. You'll not only take med student classes, you'll do so knowing that not being top of the class means no med school, $40k down the drain, and a degree that won't help you anywhere else. If anything, this works against the classic model of patient wisdom, but it has definitely worked for some people.

Really, at the end of the day, there's more to it than simply boosting/compensating for your gpa. When you get back to the app stage, make a WAMC post. Message everyone with a similar background, who made it, message adcoms, etc. Find a story in your app and tell it - and then find schools that fit/like that story. This is both the hardest and the most essential part of applying to med school, especially if your app deviates in any way from the standard.

I wish you luck. Any more questions, feel free to ask!

Thank you all for your responses.

It's pretty clear based on all your opinions that reapplying this cycle doesn't make sense, if I want to get into MD.

I am leaning towards a one year masters program - not sure where, but definitely in the NYC area. (any programs besides NYMC and Rutgers as I previously suggested?)
I might also consider taking undergrad classes on top of that, to improve my sGPA as well. thoughts on that?

Btw - I am not worried about screwing myself over with the SMP. If I'm going to do it, I am going to put everything I have into it. Given my aspirations, if I can't stand out in an SMP, I should reconsider my career anyway.

 

[mehc012]

Thank you all for your responses.

It's pretty clear based on all your opinions that reapplying this cycle doesn't make sense, if I want to get into MD.

I am leaning towards a one year masters program - not sure where, but definitely in the NYC area. (any programs besides NYMC and Rutgers as I previously suggested?)
I might also consider taking undergrad classes on top of that, to improve my sGPA as well. thoughts on that?

Btw - I am not worried about screwing myself over with the SMP. If I'm going to do it, I am going to put everything I have into it. Given my aspirations, if I can't stand out in an SMP, I should reconsider my career anyway.

If you do the SMP, don't bother taking more uGrad classes.

SMP is a fine option, just wanted to make sure you were going in with eyes open! Start it with nothing else going on, if at all humanly possible. You can add later if it's just easy breezy for ya. Good luck!

 

[preeeeeeemed]

If you do the SMP, don't bother taking more uGrad classes.

SMP is a fine option, just wanted to make sure you were going in with eyes open! Start it with nothing else going on, if at all humanly possible. You can add later if it's just easy breezy for ya. Good luck!

Thanks so much - you've been extremely helpful, as have others. I will get back to you for that list of schools if you don't mind Congrats on your acceptance!

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Does anybody have any SMP recommendations in NYC area? Any info is appreciated

 

[Traveler2016]

Does anybody have any SMP recommendations in NYC area? Any info is appreciated

It doesn't seem like there are any in that area. You can use the AAMC search engine to check out your options:
https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index

 

[GrapesofRath]

You're going to need to leave the NYC regions. Goal is to get into a high end reputable SMP that has a track record of getting most of its grads into US MD schools not some cash cow that has no track record of its grads getting into MD schools that has no problem taking your 50k and giving you a masters degree with little value

Tulane ACP Cincinnati Tufts and even Gtown is where I'd look. That juicy MCAT will get you a look somewhere

 

[preeeeeeemed]

You're going to need to leave the NYC regions. Goal is to get into a high end reputable SMP that has a track record of getting most of its grads into US MD schools not some cash cow that has no track record of its grads getting into MD schools that has no problem taking your 50k and giving you a masters degree with little value

Tulane ACP Cincinnati Tufts and even Gtown is where I'd look. That juicy MCAT will get you a look somewhere

Hey, thanks for responding. Why do you think NYMC is not a viable option, just curious? Does it really have that questionable of a track record?
If I stand out in the NYMC program with a great GPA, how is that different from a program like Cincinnati?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Hey, thanks for responding. Why do you think NYMC is not a viable option, just curious? Does it really have that questionable of a track record?
If I stand out in the NYMC program with a great GPA, how is that different from a program like Cincinnati?

Youll have to do your research on NYMC. If you find they place most of their grads into US MD programs and they have good unofficial linkage to NYMC and you like it, go for it. I havent seen or heard that about NYMC, but trust your own research and judgment when deciding. It's your 50k and your career, not anybody else's. My point is more you have to go for the best programs with something like this and be willing to be geographically flexible if it comes to that. Sticking in NYC if you find their are superior programs outside of that isn't something I would recommend in this case. In general, if a program doesnt give you pretty specific input about how many of their grads get into US MD schools(many will say med schools in general which includes DO and foreign ones) that is a pretty telling sign they are probably one to avoid.

 

[mehc012]

Neither. Scribe. If I saw you have 7-8 publications, I would think this guy wants to do research. So totally emphasize that the clinical aspect is important to you through experiences and essays. You could even try applying MD/PhD.

Do you have any significant grade trends? I don't think GPA is the issue. It is a little low for sGPA, but an SMP is not your best move. I think getting real world clinical experience (shadowing is meh), would be your best bet. But what do I know

I'm probably one of the most pro-scribing people you'll find on here, and I still don't think a lack of scribing is what's going to be holding someone back when they've got plenty of shadowing and clinical volunteering.

Do I think it's worthwhile and recommend it? Hell yeah, it's the most valuable experience I've had as a premed.
Do I think it's what's killing OP's app? Not a chance.

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Hi guys,

So after doing some research, I will most likely be doing the SMP at NYMC. I am also leaning towards applying to the following school with my 36 MCAT before it expires:

Second time applicant: Case Western, Ohio State, Rush, St Louis, Miami, Wake Forest.
Third time applicant: Albany, BU, Hofstra, Buffalo, Tufts, Vermont.

While doing the SMP, I will continue volunteering at the hospital. I will also try to look into non-medicine related community service. Will do research on a time availability basis.

If you have any advice or think I'm making a mistake with any of these plans - please feel free to comment on any of it, including the school list. Thank you all once again for all your help!

 

[jih]

Hi guys,

So after doing some research, I will most likely be doing the SMP at NYMC. I am also leaning towards applying to the following school with my 36 MCAT before it expires:

Second time applicant: Case Western, Ohio State, Rush, St Louis, Miami, Wake Forest.
Third time applicant: Albany, BU, Hofstra, Buffalo, Tufts, Vermont.

While doing the SMP, I will continue volunteering at the hospital. I will also try to look into non-medicine related community service. Will do research on a time availability basis.

If you have any advice or think I'm making a mistake with any of these plans - please feel free to comment on any of it, including the school list. Thank you all once again for all your help!

You have a low sGPA, which indicates that you are likely to struggle in the SNP if you overload yourself. If you do pursue the SNP, make sure that it is your only commitment. Only when you are confident that you will finish with a 3.8+ should you carefully think about adding more activities.

Additionally, you have way more clinical and volunteer hours than are necessary. You probably don't need to add any more of those, as your application was deficient somewhere else. Perhaps your writing or interview skills need work, or maybe you just need to be able to talk about your ECs and how they shaped you.

Either way, focus 100% on the SNP if you do it. It will significantly improve your application if you do well, but it could leave you in serious debt with a useless degree and no way to enter medical school if you screw up.

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[preeeeeeemed]

You have a low sGPA, which indicates that you are likely to struggle in the SNP if you overload yourself. If you do pursue the SNP, make sure that it is your only commitment. Only when you are confident that you will finish with a 3.8+ should you carefully think about adding more activities.

Additionally, you have way more clinical and volunteer hours than are necessary. You probably don't need to add any more of those, as your application was deficient somewhere else. Perhaps your writing or interview skills need work, or maybe you just need to be able to talk about your ECs and how they shaped you.

Either way, focus 100% on the SNP if you do it. It will significantly improve your application if you do well, but it could leave you in serious debt with a useless degree and no way to enter medical school if you screw up.

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Thanks for the advice!

The low sGPA was a combination of me doing a double major while being young at college. My outlook on things is very different now. Back then I thought good was good enough - not the case in my mind anymore. I'm aware that doing the SMP only makes sense if I excel.

 

[ChrisMack390]

This topic is giving me a stomach ache

 

[preeeeeeemed]

This topic is giving me a stomach ache

The past 6 months have been a constant stomach ache for me haha. But all you can do is improve and try again!

 

[ChrisMack390]

The past 6 months have been a constant stomach ache for me haha. But all you can do is improve and try again!

About to try for my first time with a similar MCAT and worse GPA than this guy...

 

[summergirl]

About to try for my first time with a similar MCAT and worse GPA than this guy...

I had an MCAT a few points higher and a cGPA like 3.4 and sci 3.5 and no luck. Its all about you being unique and interesting


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I have a higher MCAT, slightly lower GPA than OP, and a great PS, but also no acceptance

 

[starspells]

You have a great upward trend (which I think the OP is lacking?) and killer ECs though. I also think the OP didn't apply broadly enough.

This topic is giving me a stomach ache

About to try for my first time with a similar MCAT and worse GPA than this guy...

 

[starspells]

I had an MCAT a few points higher and a cGPA like 3.4 and sci 3.5 and no luck. Its all about you being unique and interesting


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I have a higher MCAT, slightly lower GPA than OP, and a great PS, but also no acceptance

Where all did you apply and what do you think held you back?

 

[Lucca]

I also have a pretty bad sGPA around 3.0-3.1. Does the rigor of the course load matter much to them or will they just auto-screen me out? I was a transfer from community college and I did all my humanities (non-science GPA of 3.8) before transferring leaving me with only science courses in my last 2 years at UC Berkeley. Stupid, I know, but it left me with no choice but to take 3 science courses per semester giving me that crappy sGPA. I think the worst was my last semester where I had 3 upper div science courses.. I averaged a B- my last semester since I even more stupidly was doing research at the same time instead of focusing on studying. I was hoping a high MCAT would be good enough to offset it but after seeing this thread, I'm not so sure, anymore.

The school name will have a small influence (at prívate schools) but your GPA is what it is.

 

[Lucca]

Ah, it's not so much the name I was relying on but rather the fact that I finished 14 science classes over 4 semesters which made it hard to maintain a perfect GPA.

I have very smart friends at Berkeley who have a very hard time maintaining what a pre-med would consider a high GPA so I know can at least sympathize with how challenging it must have been to get through it. However, the case remains that unless your cGPA is 3.4 or higher you may have to do some GPA repair post-graduation or rely on a very high MCAT score and apply as an unbalanced applicant. For advice you should talk to @mehc012

 

[Old_Mil]

You are obviously a bright guy. Consider this a blessing not a curse and go do something amazing with your life far away from the medical field.

 

[preeeeeeemed]

You are obviously a bright guy. Consider this a blessing not a curse and go do something amazing with your life far away from the medical field.

Why do you say that?

 

[Mansamusa]

Why do you say that?

He is an attending with a pessimistic outlook on the future of medicine. Which everyone applying to med knows or should know about the potential changes coming and what they could mean for us/have some understanding of what things will be like even if there aren't changes

He is saying that it's a blessing not to have to jump through all the hoops and stress of medicine

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Hey guys,

I'm back with more questions (some of this info might be a repeat):

MY PLAN FOR THE UPCOMING YEAR:

- Applying for an SMP at NYMC - hoping to get in! Doing this because my feedback from schools was primarily focused on my science GPA. I have taken most of the upper level undergraduate courses at my institution as part of my biochemistry major - and spending $5000 per course at private institutions doesn't seem worth it.

- Look into non-clinical volunteering, continue hospital volunteering whenever possible.

- Retaking MCAT in April for the 2017-2018 cycle, since my 2013 MCAT won't be valid at most schools anymore.

- REAPPLYING TO SELECT SCHOOLS THIS CYCLE WHERE MY MCAT WILL STILL BE VALID? It would kill me to see this MCAT score go to "waste" - there's no guarantee I will repeat this score next year on the new format of MCAT (not much psych/sociology background, less chem/physics which are my strengths).

Schools I can apply to this cycle:

Schools I've already applied to twice: Albany, BU, Hofstra, Buffalo, Hopkins*, UPenn*, Rush, Tufts, Pitt, Rochester, Vermont, Vanderbilt*, Yale*
Schools I've already applied to once: Case Western, Rosalind Franklin, Ohio State, Miami, UVA, Wake Forest
Schools I haven't applied to: Emory, St Louis, Iowa, North Dakota

* - Schools that feel like a waste of money.

CAN APPLYING THIS CYCLE HURT ME? Obviously I am likely using my last chance at some of these schools - but it might be worth it with the MCAT expiring. But will it hurt me with the schools I DON'T apply to this cycle? @Goro @mehc012

Feel free to comment on which schools I should and shouldn't apply to (or if I should even apply at all). if you have any comments regarding my plans for the upcoming year, feel free to contribute to that too Thank you all in advance!

 

[mehc012]

I will respond more later, but for now...where the hell are you looking where classes are $5000/course? That's outrageous! I've never seen them anywhere near that expensive!

 

[Goro]

Re-applicants are supposed to have the common sense to realize what were their weaknesses and have fixed them.

Unless you live in ND, applying there will be a donation like like your app to Yale was.

I can't recommend applying this year (except to DO schools), and you should do the SMP to demonstrate that you can handle med school. The median sGPA for MD matriculants is 3.7.

Schools I can apply to this cycle:

Schools I've already applied to twice: Albany, BU, Hofstra, Buffalo, Hopkins*, UPenn*, Rush, Tufts, Pitt, Rochester, Vermont, Vanderbilt*, Yale*
Schools I've already applied to once: Case Western, Rosalind Franklin, Ohio State, Miami, UVA, Wake Forest
Schools I haven't applied to: Emory, St Louis, Iowa, North Dakota

* - Schools that feel like a waste of money.

CAN APPLYING THIS CYCLE HURT ME? Obviously I am likely using my last chance at some of these schools - but it might be worth it with the MCAT expiring. But will it hurt me with the schools I DON'T apply to this cycle? @Goro @mehc012

Feel free to comment on which schools I should and shouldn't apply to (or if I should even apply at all). if you have any comments regarding my plans for the upcoming year, feel free to contribute to that too Thank you all in advance!

 

[nonamesleft]

Hey guys,
- Applying for an SMP at NYMC - hoping to get in! Doing this because my feedback from schools was primarily focused on my science GPA. I have taken most of the upper level undergraduate courses at my institution as part of my biochemistry major - and spending $5000 per course at private institutions doesn't seem worth it.

If you're looking to stay in NYC, what about Sinai? They have a 1.5-2 year master's program. From what I remember, they interview people from the master's as long as the MCAT meets some pre-determined cutoff.

.. also I feel like I'm missing something. Why are you looking to be in NYC for SMP, but not applying to NYC med schools?

 

[JesseVenturaMD]

I will respond more later, but for now...where the hell are you looking where classes are $5000/course? That's outrageous! I've never seen them anywhere near that expensive!

Georgetown and GW for starters. I believe both are 1200+ a credit hour.

 

[mehc012]

Georgetown and GW for starters. I believe both are 1200+ a credit hour.

That's stupid...just go somewhere else with sane prices. Nametag really isn't important for a DIY postbacc.

 

[Mansamusa]

That's stupid...just go somewhere else with sane prices. Nametag really isn't important for a DIY postbacc.

My undergrad was a top 10 and post-bac courses would only cost $3K/class.... Don't know why OP is looking at $5K. CUNY Hunter and City College would be like $1-1.3K/class

 

[mehc012]

My undergrad was a top 10 and post-bac courses would only cost $3K/class.... Don't know why OP is looking at $5K. CUNY Hunter and City College would be like $1-1.3K/class

...and I thought I was 'springing' for the expensive classes at $800 a pop, and it was worth it only because they were scheduled so that I could work more than full-time and take 2 classes at once.

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Re-applicants are supposed to have the common sense to realize what were their weaknesses and have fixed them.

Unless you live in ND, applying there will be a donation like like your app to Yale was.

I can't recommend applying this year (except to DO schools), and you should do the SMP to demonstrate that you can handle med school. The median sGPA for MD matriculants is 3.7.

Hey, thanks for your response. I'm aware I haven't fixed much (or anything when it comes to GPA), but I'm hoping to have some results from maybe some of the initial classes when October-November comes around, for an update letter.

My question is, if I apply to some of the MCAT heavy schools (from what I know that would be Hofstra and St. Louis from my list) this cycle - does that hurt me the cycle after this one with all schools, or just Hofstra and St. Louis? My dilemma is to simply try to utilize this MCAT score if possible, and if it doesn't hurt with other schools, might as well give the lottery a shot. If this is inaccurate, then please correct me. I'm positive you have more knowledge about this than I do

Thanks!

 

[preeeeeeemed]

If you're looking to stay in NYC, what about Sinai? They have a 1.5-2 year master's program. From what I remember, they interview people from the master's as long as the MCAT meets some pre-determined cutoff.

.. also I feel like I'm missing something. Why are you looking to be in NYC for SMP, but not applying to NYC med schools?

A 2 year program is just something I'd rather not commit to right now - priority is a one year program. There are significant reasons why that year makes a difference in my personal case - I wish that wasn't the case. Those same reasons are making skipping even this cycle not an easy decision.

Regarding NY schools - the schools I listed are the only schools that accept a 2013 MCAT. Wish that included more NY schools.

 

[TheOneTrueKingofWesteros]

My undergrad was a top 10 and post-bac courses would only cost $3K/class.... Don't know why OP is looking at $5K. CUNY Hunter and City College would be like $1-1.3K/class

Also, the CUNY post-bacc has linkages with NYU, Weill, Hofstra, and Stony Brook.

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Also, the CUNY post-bacc has linkages with NYU, Weill, Hofstra, and Stony Brook.

The deadline was February 1st It does look appealing though :/