36 Year-Old DM Laid-Off. What are the usual options?

[pharmalt82]

When I was in the mid-west a few years ago, I became a good friend of my DM. Very hard-working, knew us all by name, always tried to make sure corporate would listen to issues to have them fixed, etc. He was part of my inspiration to go into retail.
We just spoke over the phone and I found out that he was laid-off due to restructuring just 3 months ago.
He's married with 2 young kids and a stay-at-home wife/mom.
The company didn't even give him the option to move because the same restructuring issues will take place nationwide.
He wasn't even offered the chance to go back to being a pharmacy manager or staff pharmacist. Heck, he even offered to be a floater but corporate said that they don't make such maneuvers and are even planning on laying off plenty of pharmacists.

What does one do in a situation like this?
This sentence of his is still haunting me: "I have about an year tops before my family faces destitution."
Obviously, being in retail and management for so long has left him as an undesirable candidate for many regular pharmacy jobs.
The closest thing he has to a possible job is a store manager for a Modell's or a Vitamin Shoppe nearby and is seriously considering taking these positions and having his wife return to work as well.

Hearing things like these has me thinking that I better get an exit strategy and quit before I'm told to quit or before I burnout and quit.

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[Momus]

Of course, the company probably think about the bottom line. Keep the same employee but demote him = seniority benefits still intact, it's better just to lay off said employee completely and re-hire at 0 benefits. I'd do the same if I were the CEO.

He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years.

He can always get another retail job in the boonies as a staff/floater pharmacist. It'll pay more than being a store manager... if he didn't know this, I'd think this story is a troll story...

 

[BMBiology]

Does he work for Walgreens? Please let us know.

Walgreens has been planning to cut $1 billion from their budget. I have written about this and I believe staffing will be the main target especially middle management.

 

[PharmyOfNone]

Of course, the company probably think about the bottom line. Keep the same employee but demote him = seniority benefits still intact, it's better just to lay off said employee completely and re-hire at 0 benefits. I'd do the same if I were the CEO.

He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years.

He can always get another retail job in the boonies as a staff/floater pharmacist. It'll pay more than being a store manager... if he didn't know this, I'd think this story is a troll story...

20k/yr? Frugal indeed.

 

[BMBiology]

He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years. ...

But to be fair, your parents paid for pharmacy school and you don't have a family to support, like him.

While I am still doing well right now but I know the saturation will catch up to me sooner or later. I already have an "exit strategy":

Paid off my debt as much and as soon as I can

Invest for retirement (to the max)

Keep on earning and don't spend my money on unnecessarily big things like a new car every 3 years, a boat

Put things in place where I will still earn some money, even without a job.

Stay healthy

 

[pharmalt82]

Of course, the company probably think about the bottom line. Keep the same employee but demote him = seniority benefits still intact, it's better just to lay off said employee completely and re-hire at 0 benefits. I'd do the same if I were the CEO.

He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years.

He can always get another retail job in the boonies as a staff/floater pharmacist. It'll pay more than being a store manager... if he didn't know this, I'd think this story is a troll story...

The thing is this: He offered to take lower pay and even reduced benefits, etc. for a job.
However, when you work for a big corp., it refuses to even make changes in a computer to lower your benefit levels. That's too much of a hassle for them.
More importantly, I don't think this is a case of seniority benefits being too expensive. If you look at the benefits provided by the major chains these days, seniority benefits are little to none after 1 or 2 years into the company.

My biggest recommendation was to look for a job in a rural town. He's becoming more aggressive in this search now. But, based on one of his interviews, he told me that none of these potential employers like hearing that you were a DM.

What region do you live in, Momus?
He had a family to support: parents, wife, kids, etc. This makes saving hard.
In the northeast, I could make it work with $35,000 pre-tax if I'm single. But, one disaster and I'm finished.

 

[MatCauthon]

I immediately thought of Walgreens when I read this. If he has management experience he can probably morph into a lot of different places. He just needs to get new state licensure ASAP and start applying around. Moving would sure beat working at the Vitamin store. I've seen plenty of retail managers move into hospital and other settings. Plus, store manager jobs are usually the easiest ones to get.

 

[Gombrich12]

"He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years. "

You've got to love modern times, anyone can make it if they just forgo their humanity and forget about a family!

 

[pharmalt82]

Does he work for Walgreens? Please let us know.

Walgreens has been planning to cut $1 billion from their budget. I have written about this and I believe staffing will be the main target especially middle management.

I immediately thought of Walgreens when I read this. If he has management experience he can probably morph into a lot of different places. He just needs to get new state licensure ASAP and start applying around. Moving would sure beat working at the Vitamin store. I've seen plenty of retail managers move into hospital and other settings. Plus, store manager jobs are usually the easiest ones to get.

Yup. Walgreens.
I used to regret that I left Walgreens just to get into a more desirable location closer to family (Northeast).
But, not anymore.
This DM regularly went into stores to see exactly what issues they would face. He even went in during busy times to see what it was like day-to-day and to stay in touch with the workers' experience. He always knew what the workers were facing.
My supervising pharmacist always looked forward to seeing him rather than fearing and hating him the way most DMs are.
The stories he had to tell me today just make me glad that I left.
Here are some of the things he mentioned: computer outages during busy times, old computers unable to run the newer software being used, can't even switch between different applications and multi-task easily, etc.
At least CVS took a wake-up call on this front, but even they suck now.
The ordering systems are also old, slow, and unintuitive.
Then, he told me about how it takes at least 5-10 minutes to run an immunization through for a patient because of some "new" system he described.

 

[pharmalt82]

"He's not saving up enough. I can easily live 15 years unemployed if I get laid off now. My expenses is less than 20k/yr (high estimate). I only worked for 6 years. "

You've got to love modern times, anyone can make if they just forgo their humanity and forget about a family!

Hearing his story made me glad I don't have a family to support.
I am such a coward.

I don't know what I would do in such a case.
Better to be single your entire life!

 

[Gombrich12]

"even planning on laying off plenty of pharmacists."

I wonder if they are planning on closing stores if that is the case. I've been waiting for the retail contraction, there are still corners with a CVS/Rite-Aid/Walgreens all across from each other.

 

[pharmalt82]

"even planning on laying off plenty of pharmacists."

I wonder if they are planning on closing stores if that is the case. I've been waiting for the retail contraction, there are still corners with a CVS/Rite-Aid/Walgreens all across from each other.

I heard that not many stores are being closed. But, hours are being cut.
Many 24 hour Walgreens pharmacies will be cut down to midnight and opening at 8 or something like that.
Overnight differential will be gone.
I don't know how this works. Maybe some Walgreens pharmacists can shine some light on this.
I also heard that more DMs will lose their jobs.
The public will quickly realize how much they took 24 hour pharmacies for granted.
We all know what closing at midnight really means for pharmacists: the pharmacy windows close at midnight but the pharmacists keep working until 1 or 2 in the morning and get no extra pay for this because they are salaried.
Also, I guess I recommend that we pharmacists close the doors and windows when it is supposed to be closed. If you come in 2 minutes before closing and hand me 10 prescriptions, I will say no until tomorrow. Time to make the public feel the same pain we are being made to experience.

 

[BMBiology]

I also heard that more DMs will lose their jobs.

Research has shown that regular employee morale is not affected when middle management is cut. It is also much easier to get rid of middle management and require other managers to take on more work. Since they are salaried and fearful they will be next, they will do whatever it takes to keep their job.

 

[BMBiology]

24 hour pharmacies are loss leader. Their main purpose is to give the public the perception that they will be open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

However, unlike CVS, Walgreens has been moving away from trying to be a premier healthcare company. Instead, they are focusing on being a premier retail company and therefore, they don't need to be open 24 hours. You are going to see more cosmetic products, more grocery, more fresh and ready to eat meals.

Walgreens strength has always been their location. They are usually located at a corner intersection with plenty of parking so they have an advantage over big box companies like Target and Walmart. It makes sense that they are focusing on just being a retail company.

 

[MatCauthon]

Is cutting DMs and 24-hr store hours really going to get to 1 billion? I don't know enough about chain economics to make that determination?

It just makes me glad I stayed away from Walgreens. From what I understand, their staff pharmacist hours are already so thin that they can't be cut anymore. What is Walgreens going to cut next year when their stockholders demand even more profits?

 

[M0df]

I never knew that DM to staff or manager would be so hard to do. Maybe not within same chain if they are doing restructuring but seriously, CVS is always looking for someone to be pharmacy manager.

 

[Lnsean]

I never knew that DM to staff or manager would be so hard to do. Maybe not within same chain if they are doing restructuring but seriously, CVS is always looking for someone to be pharmacy manager.

He probably had a ton of vacation days

 

[bacillus1]

How about an outpatient pharmacy supervisor in a hospital with a big outpatient pharmacy?

 

[mustang sally]

He probably needs to relocate. I'm sure he will be able to find a new job as a manager in a different company if he moves elsewhere.

Going hospital outpatient seems like a good suggestion, too. Maybe a slightly better working environment.

 

[solitarius]

He needs to cut his living expenses to the bone until his job situation stabilizes if they haven't done so already. That's what I'd say is the most pro-active thing he can do.

I agree that having a family makes a $20K budget unrealistic, but you'd be shocked at how much women can pad living expenses. A family friend was broke as a joke, and he was still renting a new 2BR condo at the wife's insistence. We're talking living paycheck-to-paycheck and falling behind every month broke. There are a lot of people like that.

Go on any women's Pinterest account, and you'll see just how absurd their vision of domestic bliss is. I'm sure there's a lot of fat your friend can cut if he can get his wife to see eye-to-eye.

 

[shutterfly]

you should have an exit strategy if pharmacy doesn't work out. I have one. I definitely saved a little bit so I can go back to school if needed. it just sucks to start back at square one again but better to know an exit strategy than be left out in the dust especially since saturation isn't at the peak yet.

 

[nextgenpharmer]

What would you go back to school for?

 

[wagrxm2000]

you should have an exit strategy if pharmacy doesn't work out. I have one. I definitely saved a little bit so I can go back to school if needed. it just sucks to start back at square one again but better to know an exit strategy than be left out in the dust especially since saturation isn't at the peak yet.

So you would go back to school waste another 4 or more years of your life, spend all your savings or take another loan out and start from scratch instead of moving and finding a job anywhere that will take you? I hope your young

 

[shutterfly]

So you would go back to school waste another 4 or more years of your life, spend all your savings or take another loan out and start from scratch instead of moving and finding a job anywhere that will take you? I hope your young

firstly, if you think this is as saturated as it is getting you're a fool. secondly, if you have a family, sometimes moving isn't an option given mortgage and spousal career field. you better hope to god you have a secondary plan when people won't even hire an experienced pharmacist per diem in the future. yeah I might be young but I paid off my student loans, have 60k in my IRA, and have started putting money in a college bound fund just in case I face this kind of uncertainty in the future.....that is called being prepared.

pharmacy has been good to me so far...hopefully i can ride it for at least 10 more years but if not I have other options then.

 

[pharmalt82]

**** working overnight with no shift differential.
And no way would I ever stay 1-2 hours over for free.

HAHA.
Here is what happens at ALL the chains in the northeast, my pharmacy school friends have all corroborated to this:
1-A pharmacy is open from 9-9 or 8-10 or something reasonable like that.
2-People walk in 2 minutes before closing and demand you fill their Rxs. This wouldn't be a big deal if you only had to fill one set antibiotics or pain meds. But, it can be multiple Rxs with issues requiring doctor calls sometimes. Now, you're at least 15 minutes over if not more.
2-The list or queue must be zeroed out so that the morning RPh starts mostly fresh. At least another 15 minutes after the gates close. Tune this up to another hour if it was a busy day or if a tech called out.
4-Some maintenance work must still be completed while you are utterly tired and therefore slow. Another 15 minutes.
So, instead of leaving at 9, you are leaving at 10 REGULARLY!
We are salaried, not paid-by-the-hour.
All my friends at traditional non-24 hour stores work an hour extra EVERY DAY. Some of them have been efficiently working at these stores forever yet still can't find the time finish everything during regular hours.
What do you think happens when you face technical difficulties that block workflow? You, the pharmacist, has to make up for it and you don't get paid extra for this.

Pharmacists have become desperate and will work extra hours for the same pay.

Seriously, I laugh when anyone says we are paid $50-$60 an hour. The truth is that, given this extra working time, most of us make $35-40 an hour not including driving and taxes. Then, we also face the fact that this career may not be physically tolerable past the age of 40. Some of us become parents and then slowly quit to take care of kids and allow spouses to make the money from thereon.

My exit strategy over the next 2 years has been charted out.

 

[genesis09]

When I worked at Walgreens, the latest I ever stayed when I closed was about 15-20 minutes. Most of the time I was out the door within 10 minutes. In fact, I don't know anyone who ever stayed more than an half hour late or so.

 

[pharmalt82]

When I worked at Walgreens, the latest I ever stayed when I closed was about 15-20 minutes. Most of the time I was out the door within 10 minutes. In fact, I don't know anyone who ever stayed more than an half hour late or so.

What section of America?
Rxs per day? Pharmacy timing?
Were you allowed to leave things in the fill queue when you left?
How about as a floater?

 

[owlegrad]

Even if you work an extra hour per day that would not bring your hourly rate to 30. Math is hard.

Don't stay late. Just don't do it. It is that simple. Can't clear the queue? Use more tech hours, train the techs better, call the front for help with ringing people out, or just don't clear the queue. If anyone tells you to stay late, get it in writing.

 

[HouTX]

my username is my place
weekdays, 300-350
queues are always empty, only time something is left for next day is the people who are dropping off at closing (my patients know. new patients that don't know? take your script elsewhere)
9-9 hours so 2 RPh store, hardly any floaters come thru. I did have one floater come in and only wanted to do that day stuff. my senior tech piled it up anyways so he had no choice but to do it

not to say I haven't stayed back 10-15 mins once in a blue moon. but I'm usually out the door at 9p sharp 98% of the time. but I also don't work for the big 2 that are notoriously understaffed

 

[pharmalt82]

Try doing a 9 to 9 store with 200 Rxs as the only RPh for the entire day with 1 tech for 8 hours --- as a floater.
Yup, you're staying late and coming in early.
The only way this would work out is if your circadian rhythm is set perfectly (never true as a floater) AND you had a lot of experience at this store to the point where your hands and feet just walk toward the drug name naturally.
Maybe I'm just slow and stupid.

 

[type b pharmD]

Work for wags here. Yes they are going to cut DMs .. it is one of the most unnecessary jobs ever.. they are basically 200k/year 'coaches' whose real duties can be taken on by businesspeople.

24 hour store cutting is about 70% done .. a 24 hour store costs an extra $30-40,000/month to run .. that is eating profit of at least 200 scripts per week. The goal is to have about 1/100 stores be 24 hour , and only if you are doing at least a 3000/wk script count.

Wags is going to replace dm with store manager and community leader, these people are smart businesspeople at ground level , can manage day to day, and are making 120-150k instead 200.. district ops mgr (the REAL DM .. Will absorb the rest of the responsibilities)

If you work for walgreens you know that they took away all of DM's direct reports... They literally have no direct power over anyone in their district.. so what does that tell you ? Next thing is they are going to be deemed "unneeded" . I report to my store manager and together we report to our ops manager. DM is only there to talk a big game and pretend to be all powerful , and they are not going to let DM step down , cause they have no practical skills left.

My DM asked me if I would ever want their job .. I told them hell no. My boss told me to go into ops because they are actually responsible for doing things.

This guy was lucky he was let go early.. honestly wags did him a big favor, there are a lot of health systems that are expanding their outpatient networks.

Also I don't know what wags you guys work for but I don't know anyone in my district that isn't hourly. Try claiming those extra hours.. if they refuse then just go home.. even factoring in a couple of unpaid hours per week (which arguably most of us should be doing to keep our stores perfect ) it is still $60-70/hr.

 

[doublehh03]

At CVS, RX Sups or DMs who do not meet performance metrics simply get demoted to pharmacy managers or store managers.

I've seen it happen quite often.

 

[ancienbon]

Work for wags here. Yes they are going to cut DMs .. it is one of the most unnecessary jobs ever.. they are basically 200k/year 'coaches' whose real duties can be taken on by businesspeople.

24 hour store cutting is about 70% done .. a 24 hour store costs an extra $30-40,000/month to run .. that is eating profit of at least 200 scripts per week. The goal is to have about 1/100 stores be 24 hour , and only if you are doing at least a 3000/wk script count.

Wags is going to replace dm with store manager and community leader, these people are smart businesspeople at ground level , can manage day to day, and are making 120-150k instead 200.. district ops mgr (the REAL DM .. Will absorb the rest of the responsibilities)

If you work for walgreens you know that they took away all of DM's direct reports... They literally have no direct power over anyone in their district.. so what does that tell you ? Next thing is they are going to be deemed "unneeded" . I report to my store manager and together we report to our ops manager. DM is only there to talk a big game and pretend to be all powerful , and they are not going to let DM step down , cause they have no practical skills left.

My DM asked me if I would ever want their job .. I told them hell no. My boss told me to go into ops because they are actually responsible for doing things.

This guy was lucky he was let go early.. honestly wags did him a big favor, there are a lot of health systems that are expanding their outpatient networks.

Also I don't know what wags you guys work for but I don't know anyone in my district that isn't hourly. Try claiming those extra hours.. if they refuse then just go home.. even factoring in a couple of unpaid hours per week (which arguably most of us should be doing to keep our stores perfect ) it is still $60-70/hr.

Which DM walgreens will replace, the pharmacy supervisor or the DM the rx supervisor reports to?

 

[type b pharmD]

At CVS, RX Sups or DMs who do not meet performance metrics simply get demoted to pharmacy managers or store managers.

I've seen it happen quite often.

It seems like CVS runs a tighter ship for management , like district rx sup is there to maximize the profit through the metrics... And the best person at doing that is in the chair at all times.. makes sense. As much as I scoff at CVS they do a better job at cross training their staff and rewarding flexibility .. you can tell it allows them a lot of leeway to rotate people in and out of whatever job is best for them.. at wags there is no incentive to become a 'fixer' and there is such a soup of upper management that I don't think the company even knows what they are paying DMs for.

 

[type b pharmD]

Which DM walgreens will replace, the pharmacy supervisor or the DM the rx supervisor reports to?

I don't have any secret info .. but it makes sense to me that they would cut the rx coaches aka district rx sup . There are like 200 of them but their stores are run by other district level people. The district rx sup reports to rx 'MVP' which supervise hundreds of stores .. mvp is actually responsible for making critical business decisions, unlike DM

 

[PharFromNormal]

With wags cutting a district level Rx manager who is going to manage all the regulatory process changes? Updating PIC, pharmacy licenses, PoA forms etc. who is going to respond to the intensely crazy customer complaints especially if the ops DM isn't a pharmacist and doesn't know that drug from this drug when talking to a customer?

 

[ancienbon]

With wags cutting a district level Rx manager who is going to manage all the regulatory process changes? Updating PIC, pharmacy licenses, PoA forms etc. who is going to respond to the intensely crazy customer complaints especially if the ops DM isn't a pharmacist and doesn't know that drug from this drug when talking to a customer?

That is a good question

 

[type b pharmD]

That is a good question

I'm sure there are some very smart and very highly paid strategists working on that question.

Take a look at FY2015 bonus document... Rxm and store manager now suddenly have formerly dm metrics.

 

[PharFromNormal]

I'm sure there are some very smart and very highly paid strategists working on that question.

Take a look at FY2015 bonus document... Rxm and store manager now suddenly have formerly dm metrics.

Hope it's not the same ones that made a billion dollar rounding error.

Rxm quits/transfers... Who updates the board of pharmacy? The incoming rxm who doesn't know they are going there yet? I've heard they are consolidating districts as well... Lot of regulatory/compliance risk they are opening up for themselves IMO

 

[Ackj]

If he's as good as you say, he could probably do a great job with ownership. You said he's a very hard worker, and being a DM makes me think he's got some business sense (although I suppose that isn't necessarily true). Even if he doesn't have major savings, he can get business loans and credit lines through drug wholesalers to get the business up and running. If he's facing ruin soon anyway, why not swing for the fences?

 

[type b pharmD]

If he's as good as you say, he could probably do a great job with ownership. You said he's a very hard worker, and being a DM makes me think he's got some business sense (although I suppose that isn't necessarily true). Even if he doesn't have major savings, he can get business loans and credit lines through drug wholesalers to get the business up and running. If he's facing ruin soon anyway, why not swing for the fences?

This seems like the best option , hands down.

 

[waiter]

If you work for walgreens you know that they took away all of DM's direct reports... They literally have no direct power over anyone in their district.. so what does that tell you ? Next thing is they are going to be deemed "unneeded" . I report to my store manager and together we report to our ops manager. DM is only there to talk a big game and pretend to be all powerful , and they are not going to let DM step down , cause they have no practical skills left.

My DM asked me if I would ever want their job .. I told them hell no. My boss told me to go into ops because they are actually responsible for doing things. .

Is there one OPS per Market, or per Operation, or per Division?

 

[type b pharmD]

Ops hierarchy mirrors rx. There is one for each district / division and then also higher ups like there is market ops vp. Basically store managers and CLs direct report to district ops mgr ..

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Wags is weird. CVS pharmacy supervisors seem incredibly necessary. 24hr stores have had their work load modified to push more work to the night pharmacist. I mostly work all night now.

 

[M0df]

It seems like CVS runs a tighter ship for management , like district rx sup is there to maximize the profit through the metrics... And the best person at doing that is in the chair at all times.. makes sense. As much as I scoff at CVS they do a better job at cross training their staff and rewarding flexibility .. you can tell it allows them a lot of leeway to rotate people in and out of whatever job is best for them.. at wags there is no incentive to become a 'fixer' and there is such a soup of upper management that I don't think the company even knows what they are paying DMs for.

Or you can say wags figured out that rx sup's contribution is minimal and essential parts of his role can be taken care of by someone else. Do I think my rx sup justifies his 200k? No but 200k over 20 stores is 'only' 10k per store. And while CVS was overwhelming winner of the worst chain to work for, I doubt too many people would consider going from CVS to Wags or Wags to CVS. At this point, they are just imitating one another.

I stay late to finish what I need to do. Sometimes it is the fancy action plan. Sometimes it is issue resolution. I do not stay 'off the clock' to continue at same pace that I worked for 10-14 hours during my shift... That is the only way I can tolerate leaving late.

 

[rph3664]

Does he work for Walgreens? Please let us know.

Walgreens has been planning to cut $1 billion from their budget. I have written about this and I believe staffing will be the main target especially middle management.

My BFF was canned from Walgreens a while back. He knows now that they did him a HUGE favor.

Yesterday, I had a conversation with a man who had his own store for many years, and sold it to Walgreens in 2009. He recently retired, and now does occasional relief work. This was a 24-hour store in a marginal neighborhood that does as many as 1,000 a day.

 

[Dr Wario]

I don't think they RX sup makes 200k/year. I was on rotation with a sup and he mentioned some of his pharmacists made more than him if they picked up some shifts

I can tell you for a fact that both my rx sup and DM make less than I do (though the dm is not a pharmacist which means he is making under 100/year. Now they can have huge bonuses if their district meets/exceeds all targets, but that is almost impossible the way corp has it set up.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Our dm made over 200k last year after bonuses, he's a friend of mine.

 

[uicgrad]

Just to clarify, DM or RXSup? Is that typical compensation for most in their position?

 

[type b pharmD]

I can tell you for a fact that both my rx sup and DM make less than I do (though the dm is not a pharmacist which means he is making under 100/year. Now they can have huge bonuses if their district meets/exceeds all targets, but that is almost impossible the way corp has it set up.

I think wag has a different salary structure than cvs.. non pharmacist field management is clocking 110-140 with avg bonus , its hard to imagine pharmacist dm making less than a good rxm in this situation