3rd time reapplicant

[Iatro]

Hey SDN,

I have been posting on this forum for some years now. Unfortunately, I have still not made it into medical school. This year will be my 3rd time around.

Background:
Caucasian Male, 24
36 MCAT (only taken once)
3.88/3.92 gpa
Top UC
Lots of research in college, global medical missions, TA
Currently an MCAT instructor. Based on my ability to communicate with students, I was recently selected to be part of the national team (what I am trying to say is I don't think I'm socially inept). Also, I am helping with some research near my local university
No red flags with the law or university.

It is a trying time right now. I know third time applicants that have made it. And I know many don't. And I'm sure many fade away before the third time. The first time I was rejected, I figured it might be dumb luck. The second, well, it's tough to use that excuse. I have reflected on my pursuit of medicine. Sure, there are loads of perks. Job stability, good pay and much respect. Say what you want, but these are important things to have in life, as I have learned these years out of school. But deep down, I don't think there is another profession that will allow me to combine heart and head in a way to directly help people in a positive and significant way at the most fundamental of levels (health). I'll step off my soapbox now.

In college, I feel I came to define myself as a premed, and as a future doctor. Worth my material accomplishments type of thing. Maybe a lot of other people do that too, but I definitely did. It's a bit silly now though. With rejection, I've been forced to try and find a new identity, but not quite yet a new future. It's a tough and ongoing process.

I guess I am just posting this because it is very stressful peering over into the abyss that is my future if things don't work out. Apologies for the life story.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

P.S. I have applied to ~20 schools each cycle, with 3-4 interviews each cycle. They were late applications.

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[About28]

Hey SDN,

I have been posting on this forum for some years now. Unfortunately, I have still not made it into medical school. This year will be my 3rd time around.

Background:
Caucasian Male, 24
36 MCAT (only taken once)
3.88/3.92 gpa
Top UC
Lots of research in college, global medical missions, TA
Currently an MCAT instructor. Based on my ability to communicate with students, I was recently selected to be part of the national team (what I am trying to say is I don't think I'm socially inept). Also, I am helping with some research near my local university
No red flags with the law or university.

It is a trying time right now. I know third time applicants that have made it. And I know many don't. And I'm sure many fade away before the third time. The first time I was rejected, I figured it might be dumb luck. The second, well, it's tough to use that excuse. I have reflected on my pursuit of medicine. Sure, there are loads of perks. Job stability, good pay and much respect. Say what you want, but these are important things to have in life, as I have learned these years out of school. But deep down, I don't think there is another profession that will allow me to combine heart and head in a way to directly help people in a positive and significant way at the most fundamental of levels (health). I'll step off my soapbox now.

In college, I feel I came to define myself as a premed, and as a future doctor. Worth my material accomplishments type of thing. Maybe a lot of other people do that too, but I definitely did. It's a bit silly now though. With rejection, I've been forced to try and find a new identity, but not quite yet a new future. It's a tough and ongoing process.

I guess I am just posting this because it is very stressful peering over into the abyss that is my future if things don't work out. Apologies for the life story.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

P.S. I have applied to ~20 schools each cycle, with 3-4 interviews each cycle. They were late applications.

Applying late is a red flag. Applying late twice is a huge red flag. Not even 1 out of every 5 applicants with your scores gets rejected from every school.

Also, I'd seriously suggest brushing up on your interview skills.

Edit: Unless applying late was out of your control, in which case you can't take all the blame for that

 

[QofQuimica]

Getting into medical school is not about luck. It's about proper app preparation and strategy. Or, if you like, you create your own luck through proper app preparation and strategy. We need some more info to be able to really guide you.

First, what is your state of residency?

Second, did you apply broadly enough the last two times? A list of schools (including which ones you are a reapplicant at) would be helpful for us.

Third, how did your other app seasons go down? Did you get secondaries from screening schools or pre-secondary rejections? Did you get waitlisted after your interviews, or rejected post-interview?

Fourth, what clinical experiences do you have? You didn't list any in your OP. What other types of volunteering experiences do you have besides your medical missions (which, IMO, are basically vacations that primarily benefit the traveler, and not true volunteering in most cases)?

Fifth, have you contacted any of the schools that rejected you or met with a counselor at your school for advice on how to improve your app? What did these people feel was weak about your app?

Sixth, as the poster above me noted, repeating the same mistakes of the prior year will yield you the exact same results. When do you intend to submit your apps this year?

 

[vife]

QofQuimica has a lot of good points.
Your scores are fine but you really need to make sure the rest of your application is good. PS, secondaries? Interview? Each step counts and if you misstep along one part, you won't be able to get in.

 

[ccantr10]

Hey SDN,

I have been posting on this forum for some years now. Unfortunately, I have still not made it into medical school. This year will be my 3rd time around.

Background:
Caucasian Male, 24
36 MCAT (only taken once)
3.88/3.92 gpa
Top UC
Lots of research in college, global medical missions, TA
Currently an MCAT instructor. Based on my ability to communicate with students, I was recently selected to be part of the national team (what I am trying to say is I don't think I'm socially inept). Also, I am helping with some research near my local university
No red flags with the law or university.

It is a trying time right now. I know third time applicants that have made it. And I know many don't. And I'm sure many fade away before the third time. The first time I was rejected, I figured it might be dumb luck. The second, well, it's tough to use that excuse. I have reflected on my pursuit of medicine. Sure, there are loads of perks. Job stability, good pay and much respect. Say what you want, but these are important things to have in life, as I have learned these years out of school. But deep down, I don't think there is another profession that will allow me to combine heart and head in a way to directly help people in a positive and significant way at the most fundamental of levels (health). I'll step off my soapbox now.

In college, I feel I came to define myself as a premed, and as a future doctor. Worth my material accomplishments type of thing. Maybe a lot of other people do that too, but I definitely did. It's a bit silly now though. With rejection, I've been forced to try and find a new identity, but not quite yet a new future. It's a tough and ongoing process.

I guess I am just posting this because it is very stressful peering over into the abyss that is my future if things don't work out. Apologies for the life story.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

P.S. I have applied to ~20 schools each cycle, with 3-4 interviews each cycle. They were late applications.

Hello! As a fellow reapplicant x3, you have my sympathies. I'm not sure what your issue is; all I can say is give the people here some info to work with. I think you should offer a list of the schools you've applied to and list your clinical experiences. According to your stats (GPA/MCAT), you should have not had as much trouble as someone like me.

 

[gyngyn]

The reasons that someone with your qualifications becomes a third time re-applicant are different than the reasons for most others. You must have a theory. Lateness could explain the first cycle. Lateness twice is harder to understand...

 

[Iatro]

I am from California. First time around, it was mostly top schools (submitted August). I received 3 interviews and was waitlisted at all. As I was waiting for schools (and not totally able to mentally grasp the reality I would have to reapply), I applied the second time late (end of July). Looking back, this was definitely a mistake. This past year, I received 3 interviews and am currently sitting on 1 waitlist. I have just submitted my primary today for the third time.

My clinical experience is adequate, I feel. It has mostly been research, although for one experience I did have patient contact working in a clinic to help gather data and shadowing surgeries. I also volunteered at a hospital some time back for 100-200 hours.

I feel my personal statement may have been a slight weakness in the past as I may have pontificated on the medical profession a tad too much. The second time, I essentially submitted the same application. I did get interviews from great schools each time. However this time around, I have taken a different tone (no bloviation). I had a person in the "know" rewrite it with me, and I feel it is definitely better.

My strategy this year is to apply to 40 schools, instead of the 15-20 which I have in the past.

In terms of clinical experience, I am also very interested in working abroad in a clinic for the duration of this year. Teaching is great, but I feel after a year there is little room for personal growth giving the same lectures over and over. I have some leads on such positions abroad, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Potential weaknesses I have in mind are:
A) Submitting late
B) Doing jack **** during my first application year (unless you consider traveling significant)
C) Not the fastest turnover on secondaries (2-3 weeks typically)
D) Not connecting with interviewers. The second year, my alluding to being a reapplicant might have been a big turnoff (I mentioned to an interview I had him the previous year)
E) Trying to give my interviewers the "right" answer when asked a question, instead of being true to myself

Question: My MCAT is almost 3 years old (next month). I believe I could retake it and receive close to if not potentially above a 40. Would a September/October test significantly add to my application that late?

I also plan on applying to masters programs (virology, infectious disease, etc.) this year, in case things don't work out. The price tag is SCARY.

 

[gyngyn]

I am from California. First time around, it was mostly top schools (submitted August). I received 3 interviews and was waitlisted at all. As I was waiting for schools (and not totally able to mentally grasp the reality I would have to reapply), I applied the second time late (end of July). Looking back, this was definitely a mistake. This past year, I received 3 interviews and am currently sitting on 1 waitlist. I have just submitted my primary today for the third time.

My clinical experience is adequate, I feel. It has mostly been research, although for one experience I did have patient contact working in a clinic to help gather data and shadowing surgeries. I also volunteered at a hospital some time back for 100-200 hours.

I feel my personal statement may have been a slight weakness in the past as I may have pontificated on the medical profession a tad too much. The second time, I essentially submitted the same application. I did get interviews from great schools each time. However this time around, I have taken a different tone (no bloviation). I had a person in the "know" rewrite it with me, and I feel it is definitely better.

My strategy this year is to apply to 40 schools, instead of the 15-20 which I have in the past.

In terms of clinical experience, I am also very interested in working abroad in a clinic for the duration of this year. Teaching is great, but I feel after a year there is little room for personal growth giving the same lectures over and over. I have some leads on such positions abroad, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Potential weaknesses I have in mind are:
A) Submitting late
B) Doing jack **** during my first application year (unless you consider traveling significant)
C) Not the fastest turnover on secondaries (2-3 weeks typically)
D) Not connecting with interviewers. The second year, my alluding to being a reapplicant might have been a big turnoff (I mentioned to an interview I had him the previous year)
E) Trying to give my interviewers the "right" answer when asked a question, instead of being true to myself

Question: My MCAT is almost 3 years old (next month). I believe I could retake it and receive close to if not potentially above a 40. Would a September/October test significantly add to my application that late?

I also plan on applying to masters programs (virology, infectious disease, etc.) this year, in case things don't work out. The price tag is SCARY.

To summarize, it sounds like overconfidence, followed by a slow progress through grieving (denial, anger bargaining...) then the stigma of multiple applications. With a good list of first time schools and a modicum of humility you should have success. Your scores are not the problem.

 

[Iatro]

Thank you for your response. What you mention are definitely things I need to work on and have been working on. I'd say that the overconfidence is completely obliterated at this point. Unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way. It is good though and in a strange way I feel I am happier.

In terms of retaking the MCAT this year, do you think my scores would have influence (say I took the test Aug/Sept)?

 

[gyngyn]

In terms of retaking the MCAT this year, do you think my scores would have influence (say I took the test Aug/Sept)?

Is your score is less than 3 years old?

 

[Faha]

It would be helpful to know your state of residence and which schools you applied to last year and where you were waitlisted. It would be easier to advise you with that information.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Good luck this cycle. Just wanted to chime in as a 3rd time applicant who got 3 acceptances late in the cycle (first of 3 interviews in mid March) and say it is possible if you have been working to improve your application. Just make sure you keep updating schools that are open to acceptances. Also, if you are getting interviews and not getting in, you definitely need to work on interview skills a lot!

Throw in a DO application this cycle. If you don't it's hubris. Applying 4 times is not looking good for you and is just a lot of time off when you could be a doctor if you applied DO the first time. Better to be in school next year at a good DO school than prepping for a 4th cycle IMO.

Good luck!

 

[kthxbai]

I am from California. First time around, it was mostly top schools (submitted August). I received 3 interviews and was waitlisted at all. As I was waiting for schools (and not totally able to mentally grasp the reality I would have to reapply), I applied the second time late (end of July). Looking back, this was definitely a mistake. This past year, I received 3 interviews and am currently sitting on 1 waitlist. I have just submitted my primary today for the third time.

My clinical experience is adequate, I feel. It has mostly been research, although for one experience I did have patient contact working in a clinic to help gather data and shadowing surgeries. I also volunteered at a hospital some time back for 100-200 hours.

I feel my personal statement may have been a slight weakness in the past as I may have pontificated on the medical profession a tad too much. The second time, I essentially submitted the same application. I did get interviews from great schools each time. However this time around, I have taken a different tone (no bloviation). I had a person in the "know" rewrite it with me, and I feel it is definitely better.

My strategy this year is to apply to 40 schools, instead of the 15-20 which I have in the past.

In terms of clinical experience, I am also very interested in working abroad in a clinic for the duration of this year. Teaching is great, but I feel after a year there is little room for personal growth giving the same lectures over and over. I have some leads on such positions abroad, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Potential weaknesses I have in mind are:
A) Submitting late
B) Doing jack **** during my first application year (unless you consider traveling significant)
C) Not the fastest turnover on secondaries (2-3 weeks typically)
D) Not connecting with interviewers. The second year, my alluding to being a reapplicant might have been a big turnoff (I mentioned to an interview I had him the previous year)
E) Trying to give my interviewers the "right" answer when asked a question, instead of being true to myself

Question: My MCAT is almost 3 years old (next month). I believe I could retake it and receive close to if not potentially above a 40. Would a September/October test significantly add to my application that late?

I also plan on applying to masters programs (virology, infectious disease, etc.) this year, in case things don't work out. The price tag is SCARY.

That, right there, is also a huge red flag on your application. Many people who are involved in research get disconnected from the human element that caused them to seek the medical profession in the first place. I, with my extensive and prolific lab experience, was one of them. 100 hours of hospital volunteering way back when does nothing to show for your commitment to people. Where's your non-clinical service too?

Your application looks like it's bound for a PhD program, I'm afraid. You need to refocus lest you look down the long road of a fourth round.

 

[Iatro]

That, right there, is also a huge red flag on your application. Many people who are involved in research get disconnected from the human element that caused them to seek the medical profession in the first place. I, with my extensive and prolific lab experience, was one of them. 100 hours of hospital volunteering way back when does nothing to show for your commitment to people. Where's your non-clinical service too?

Your application looks like it's bound for a PhD program, I'm afraid. You need to refocus lest you look down the long road of a fourth round.

I also listed working in a clinic in my post. That was about ~500 hours clinical volunteering (3 years ago). This past year, I also worked in a doctor's office. While there was minimal patient interaction, there was lots of doctor interaction. There is also some non-clinic volunteer as well.

I see what you are saying about the human element. That's why I pursued a teaching job - to see if I actually liked working with people. And I found I do. Sure it's not being a doctor, but what experience will give you the doctor experience, besides being a doctor.

I have actually been seeking work/volunteer that will put me in the place of being a direct care provider. I haven't found anything that looks like an amazing experience for BS/BA qualifications. If anyone on this website has suggestions, that'd be awesome.

 

[popopopop]

I also listed working in a clinic in my post. That was about ~500 hours clinical volunteering (3 years ago). This past year, I also worked in a doctor's office. While there was minimal patient interaction, there was lots of doctor interaction. There is also some non-clinic volunteer as well.

I see what you are saying about the human element. That's why I pursued a teaching job - to see if I actually liked working with people. And I found I do. Sure it's not being a doctor, but what experience will give you the doctor experience, besides being a doctor.

I have actually been seeking work/volunteer that will put me in the place of being a direct care provider. I haven't found anything that looks like an amazing experience for BS/BA qualifications. If anyone on this website has suggestions, that'd be awesome.

^What kind of work are you expecting to do with your bachelor's that will help patients medically?

 

[smpbound]

I don't think lateness is your issue. Your stats are stellar, assuming all credits are from your UC school and not CC.

It could be your school list. Not broad enough.

Maybe your letters of rec? U sure each one is good?

 

[Iatro]

in terms of the letters, one may have been weak the past few years. i am not using it this year. my lists could have definitely been broader. money always plays a role though....

 

[smpbound]

in terms of the letters, one may have been weak the past few years. i am not using it this year. my lists could have definitely been broader. money always plays a role though....

How did you know it was weak?

 

[Law2Doc]

First, July isn't that late. Not enough to be a reason. saying "I applied late" tends to be an excuse people like to use when they don't want to take ownership of their real flaws.

Second, I am troubled by your lack of clinical ECs. Research doesn't count. Teaching doesn't count for this either. Limiting yourself to jobs that would be commensurate to your credentials is foolish. You get more brownie points in this process wheeling patients around a hospital then you do helping doctors with clinical studies, I'm afraid. The point of clinical exposure is to get you up close and personal with patients, so you know what you are getting yourself into, not to meet a few doctors who shielded you from the dirty work.

Third, it sounds like your interview skills my be lacking. Practice with someone or on videotape.

Fourth, your focus in an earlier post on hoping to move a 36 MCAT up to above 40 is silly. Once you broke 33 no place was rejecting you based on that score. it makes us think you have no insight as to why you are being passed over. Do you realize how many people get into US allo med school with a 28-32 each year? Lots.

Fifth, list of schools would be really helpful. You probably self selected out of the places that were most likely prospects, given your shortcomings. Your focus on research make me think you probably focused on research schools, but these places want the whole package, and that might not be you,

Sixth, You have to have some better insight as to where you went wrong. Are your essays and letters actually good or do they suggest some of the the same "too good to get dirty with patients" only want to do a job commensurate with my credentials attitude we see in this thread?

Sevent, agree with Q above. Talk to adcoms after the cycle and see "how you can improve for next year". You need some insight. you aren't getting passed over for stats or lateness so you need to pinpoint what the real problem is and fix it.

 

[Iatro]

1) I understand this. I have been working on finding my flaws and learning to make them better. I want to do this not just for medical school but for myself (in fact if what was necessary for medical school went against my personal identity, I would absolutely not do it). Additionally, there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence. I may cross this line from time to time. Also, I may come across as disorganized due to the broadness and number of my ECs. Maybe they think I'm an imposter checking boxes to look good on an application. Admittedly, I may have done this early in college. But I've recently been looking for things that I am passionate about and can grow from.

2) I have worked in a hospital. I was abroad working in Honduras in clinics. My clinical research in college was actually in a clinic where I was speaking with patients. I really don't know (and insight would be appreciated) what more medical schools are looking for. I have lots of friends who are in medical school. Their ECs look very very similar to mine. I'm confident I'm on par with what is necessary. (Inb4 they talk/write about them in a more compelling way, I know this may be true and I'm working on this). This year, I want to find something that will let me provide care more directly to patients.

3) I don't think I am a horrible interviewer. I have interviewed for lots of jobs and have been successful. I don't think I am telling the medical schools what they want to hear and for partly that reason I think I have fallen short. I accept I am by no means the best interviewer.

4) I am taking this to heart.

5) It's been about 20 schools a year. 1st year top heavy, 2nd year spread out (midwest schools etc.). This year limited to schools that take my MCAT. (30 schools).

6) I think my essays this year are better 100%. They changed quite a bit and I had someone "in the know" review them. Although to be frank, I was told my high profile SDN posters that my previous essays were "quite excellent." LOR were not the strongest previously. This year, I am adding one which should be very good.

7) I believe these are my problems. 1) Lateness. It is a factor. 2) I look similar to a lot of other applicants on paper. 3) I am not coming across as sincere in my interviews or application. I feel when the adcom gathers round to make decisions, things in my application don't "click" together for them. Also, none of the schools I have interviewed at review apps at the end of the season.

A questions I am interested in: to adcoms/physicians, when a person has stats like myself, good ECs, (at least) decent interviews (well not HORRIBLE), for what reason to do you typically tell such applicants to hit the road?

Thank you.

 

[QofQuimica]

A questions I am interested in: to adcoms/physicians, when a person has stats like myself, good ECs, (at least) decent interviews (well not HORRIBLE), for what reason to do you typically tell such applicants to hit the road?.

Either professionalism issues, character issues, or both. What you said in your prior post about possibly coming off as arrogant could certainly fall under that category.

 

[feeling-dizzy]

36 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, lot of EC/research and still apply the third time? Man, I would dream to have your stats. Make me feel depress about my chance

 

[hughesn2]

I know my word probably has little to no say on this, but for some reason I stumbled upon this thread. I had a friend who had was in a similar stage on GPA and MCAT as you, but knowing him as a friend I knew one thing that would derail his chances at a med school interview.
This kid was a 3.95 GPA student in which he took one of the most challenging majors the Natural Science college offers at MSU. He was a TA for three years. He applied to several schools and got rejected from the three best schools he had despite amazing LORs from teachers (according to him), 34 to 36 MCAT, and a 4.0 in every single class he took except for 3.5 grade in one philosophy course.

For him I do believe there were two things that derailed his chances at some of the top med schools:
a) ARROGANCE--he may have been the smartest guy in the room with exception of the teacher, but his issue was that he practically rubbed it in people's faces without attempting to do it. He really never knew he did it, but he did it. In the few years I knew this kid the way I bet he went into the interview was with the definition of arrogance and practically expecting them to hand him a scholarship. And I KNOW that derailed a good chance at getting accepted to his top choices.

b) PERFECTIONIST---what I have heard from several MD rejects who had top scores like my friend above was that the school was afraid to take on a kid who has yet to get a grade less than a 4.0 in any relevant course because what happens when a kid who never finished below the top 10% in a single class gets a 75% on an exam? He is more likely to crumble than someone who has received some 3.0 and 3.5 (B to A-) grades in undergrad. Obviously med schools want the brightest minds, but sometimes THE brightest minds can also be those that when they get overwhelmed they won't be able to perform.

Like I said, don't take my word for it. I am not even a pre-MD or pre-DO student and hadn't ever been one, but based on stories of people I know the biggest reason a guy with your scores and grades is getting rejected is that you may come off as arrogant to the admissions committee. Applying late with great scores and grades may come off as someone who assumes he'll get accepted. Obviously, you have probably gotten frustrated when you find out that classmates who had a .2 or more GPA lower than you and a couple points lower on your MCAT getting accepted to schools you applied to but you got rejected.

Also, volunteering most likely won't mean jack **** to a committee unless you are talking about being a paid SCRIBE.

 

[VictorAlpha]

i think it is tough to say exactly what might be holding you back here. Your grades and test scores are great! I think contacting schools that you have interviewed at is a good idea. Also, you should apply early. I applied late, really late, one time. The other two times I was submitted on the day or the next day after AMCAS opened. I was accepted on my third attempt at applying so it is definitely not impossible...and if I can, just about anyone can. At least part of the application process is luck...that's just the truth. But there is a lot that is under your control so you have to throw everything you can into those parts...contact the schools, continue to build ECs / clinical work etc... If the scores expire, saddle up and take the test again ( I did ....twice). While the chances of admission on any particular cycle might have some luck involved, in the long run it's all up to you!

 

[user12]

im in the same position as you, except im 25 and my stats are SLIGHTLY lower. stay tough. this is our year

 

[operaman]

I still don't understand why OP didn't contact schools that rejected him and find out their reasons. I'm convinced there is more to the story we aren't getting. July is not late. September/October is late.

 

[neurodoc]

in terms of the letters, one may have been weak the past few years. i am not using it this year. my lists could have definitely been broader. money always plays a role though....

Sorry about this late reply (I just came upon your thread). Your GPA and MCAT stats are highly competitive, so something else is wrong. Could have been the prior late apps (though such outstanding stats ought to have made up for some of that late app effect), or failure to diversify your application spread (like applying to only "top tier" schools.

Another possibility is a "kiss of death" LOR somehow attached to your application. It's possible that you got a professor who for some reason just didn't like you. You may have gotten a solid A from this professor, but the prof felt you were an arrogant AH. Maybe the prof's LOR says something like "Latro was a brilliant student and aced all of his biochem exams and indeed scored at the top of his class. He is also the most arrogant, narcissistic, and argumentative student I have ever met. He apparently believed that he knew more than I did about the subject...etc."

When I applied to med school in the 1980's I had stats similar to yours (12/12/13 MCAT and 3.88/3.92 GPA). On the first and second round of apps (to 15 schools, about half "top tier") I got interviewed at most and waitlisted on 5 or 6 per year.

Just before my third time round of applications I learned, thanks to a well meaning person who had read the letter and happened to tell me about it, that one of the profs who'd contributed to my pre-medical advisory committee letter had written just such a kiss-of-death "recommendation." After my second round rejections, I enrolled in a European medical school, which I attended for two years and then returned to the US to reapply. Well, on my third round I went back to my pre-med advisor and asked that this prof's comments be deleted (we had the option to delete any prof's comments from this "confidential" committee letter). I told the advisor that I wanted Prof. X's comments deleted, because even though I got solid A's from him, I thought we may have had a "personality conflict." My advisor agreed to delete the comments, smiled, and just said "Good choice, and good luck." On the third round I applied to just 6 schools, got interviewed at all of them, got waitlisted at 3 and accepted to 3,and accepted the offer of my first choice school.

 

[Chocolatepumpkinpie]

kiss of death LOR? I wish the professor would just refuse to write a LOR. So evil...

 

[neurodoc]

kiss of death LOR? I wish the professor would just refuse to write a LOR. So evil...

Yes. In fact I specifically asked this Prof if he could contribute a "good' recommendation to be incorporated into my committee letter, and I went ahead to authorize him to do that. If he had been honest enough to say that he would not be willing to do that, I would have written him off. But he didn't . Since I'd "waived access" to review my committee LOR and he knew that , I guess that he felt free to screw me over by writing his KOD "recommendation." I'm sure he never imagined that I'd get to see what he wrote.

I can appreciate the argument for "confidential " LOR's... In my case, however, it seems pretty clear to me that it's possible for a really nasty Prof to hide behind a "confidentiality access waiver" to write a really damaging LOR.

 

[Chocolatepumpkinpie]

Yes. In fact I specifically asked this Prof if he could contribute a "good' recommendation to be incorporated into my committee letter, and I went ahead to authorize him to do that. If he had been honest enough to say that he would not be willing to do that, I would have written him off. But he didn't . Since I'd "waived access" to review my committee LOR and he knew that , I guess that he felt free to screw me over by writing his KOD "recommendation." I'm sure he never imagined that I'd get to see what he wrote.

I can appreciate the argument for "confidential " LOR's... In my case, however, it seems pretty clear to me that it's possible for a really nasty Prof to hide behind a "confidentiality access waiver" to write a really damaging LOR.

Well, neurodoc, I'm glad you are done with this business as you've been rightfully accepted to US medical school! I'm applying to med school next year, and this LOR business is making me a little nervous.

 

[jl lin]

Yes. In fact I specifically asked this Prof if he could contribute a "good' recommendation to be incorporated into my committee letter, and I went ahead to authorize him to do that. If he had been honest enough to say that he would not be willing to do that, I would have written him off. But he didn't . Since I'd "waived access" to review my committee LOR and he knew that , I guess that he felt free to screw me over by writing his KOD "recommendation." I'm sure he never imagined that I'd get to see what he wrote.

I can appreciate the argument for "confidential " LOR's... In my case, however, it seems pretty clear to me that it's possible for a really nasty Prof to hide behind a "confidentiality access waiver" to write a really damaging LOR.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Sadly, I feel that nasty references happen for schools and for work, more than many people know or will ever know. Those giving reference letters: be a stand up person and be straight from the outset. BTW, this kind of thing is hard to fight. I have seen it ruin people's goals.

It's ironic to me, however, that people who embrace science are so quick to side-step a more balanced and objective system of assessment and evaluation.

 

[jl lin]

Well, neurodoc, I'm glad you are done with this business as you've been rightfully accepted to US medical school! I'm applying to med school next year, and this LOR business is making me a little nervous.

There are tons of things to get nervous about in the process and in life. I guess we control what we can, roll with what we can--so long as it doesn't compromise our ethos, and concern ourselves with things in life other than meeting the more and less subjective metrics for med school entrance.

What concerned me re: the OP was something he said more than once about his identity. What we do as a career, or even a calling, doesn't define who we are.

And the way I look at it is this: I will not die if I do not get in, but I am willing to die trying to give it my best shot. Either way, I will be me.

 

[ridethecliche]

So, OP, are you applying this cycle? How's it going?

 

[Afp0731]

I am a little late to this thread but I figured I would chime in anyway. Latro, I am in a slightly different boat than you but I understand the feeling. I am a 24 year old male from Louisiana. I graduated with a 3.4 due to an early lack of direction but I turned things around once I found the motivation to pursue medicine. I managed to make a 4.0 for the remainder of my college career including retakes of bad grades. I ended up with a 29 on my MCAT - 9/10/10. This is quite competitive at the two LSU schools in my state so I was happy was content considering I was only interested in state schools. I have a pretty diverse range of EC's - 20 plus hours a week throughout college performing as a professional musician(singer/guitarist), 4 years of involvement in a university fraternity with multiple leadership positions, 2 years as a board member for my university St. Jude fundraising committee, significant shadowing experience with a local cardiothoracic surgeon, regular hospice patient volunteer work over the last year, MDA summer camp caretaker for a child with advanced muscular dystrophy, pre professional organization involvement, and great LORs from connected and supportive professors. I first applied in August of 2013 to both LSU MD schools in Louisiana. My reason for submitting late was due to a pending MCAT score and I did not feel comfortable submitting with anything less than a 28. I received an ii from LSU Shreveport on the first day they sent out ii's which gave me a great confidence boost although I was not able to interview until Jan 14th. The interview went smoothly and I thought I did well but ended up receiving a rejection letter around February. No interview from LSU New Orleans. I went for a follow up with the dean of Shreveport in April to attain an understanding of what I needed to do to successfully reapply. He basically said I didn't have enough relevant volunteer work and instructed me to spend April -October regularly volunteering in a medical-specific setting where I could get some patient contact. I was also instructed to re apply in October, and considering my homework assignment was done, I would have a spot at the school. I immediately signed up for all the hospice and clinic volunteer work I could find which I have faithfully been doing ever since. I reapplied in October as I was told, only to get a pre-interview rejection letter from the school. I was very surprised by this and my university pre-med advisor/head of letter-writing committee was shocked. I am really not sure where to go from here..