4.0/38-40MCAT, how many schools are too many?

[FFH]

I removed the content, but I will post it back once the cycle is over. I promise. I want to share my experience and information but now it's not a good time.

Good luck and thank you for your understanding!

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[Sea Otter]

From the looks of your app, you should have no problem getting into the school of your choosing! As long as you interview decently, you're going to have lots of amazing choices!

As for which schools to apply to, something an advisor told me that helped was "Only apply to a school if you would go there if it was your only acceptance." Otherwise, apply to as many as you can afford.


"Never half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing." - Ron Swanson

 

[FFH]

From the looks of your app, you should have no problem getting into the school of your choosing! As long as you interview decently, you're going to have lots of amazing choices!

As for which schools to apply to, something an advisor told me that helped was "Only apply to a school if you would go there if it was your only acceptance." Otherwise, apply to as many as you can afford.


"Never half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing." - Ron Swanson

Thank you for giving me your two dime. It worth a lot in my book. I got FAP, so I can afford to apply for at least 30 schools...It looks like I miss some mid range schools for which I want your opinion...if you think it's necessary...

About where I want to go being a factor. Here is the thing, I tend to survive well in most environments, so location wise, I don't consider that being a big factor for 4 yrs of my life. That being said, it's pretty obvious that i have a California Dream (singing california~~~dream~~~)and also don't mind staying near the northeast. With regard to the strength of the school. I only know UMich, Harvard, NYU and Columbia well enough to say I'll be glad to go any of those schools. I can't see how I can say whether I like or dislike other schools before i am more informed after interview and even after that, it's still an open question. It's hard...

 

[Abstractions]

Thank you for giving me your two dime. It worth a lot in my book. I got FAP, so I can afford to apply for at least 30 schools...It looks like I miss some mid range schools for which I want your opinion...if you think it's necessary...

About where I want to go being a factor. Here is the thing, I tend to survive well in most environments, so location wise, I don't consider that being a big factor for 4 yrs of my life. That being said, it's pretty obvious that i have a California Dream (singing california~~~dream~~~)and also don't mind staying near the northeast. With regard to the strength of the school. I only know UMich, Harvard, NYU and Columbia well enough to say I'll be glad to go any of those schools. I can't see how I can say whether I like or dislike other schools before i am more informed after interview and even after that, it's still an open question. It's hard...

If you have dreams of California, it wouldn't hurt to add USC (Keck). Congratulations on your tremendous life accomplishments and achievements, some other schools I'd suggest if you're looking into research institutions are : U Pitt, Case Western, Wash U (They love high numbers, you have extremely good odds if your MCAT ends up being 38+) and Baylor. If you want a few safeties (not that I think you need any!) you could try a few schools like Einstein/Saint Louis University. Best of luck!

 

[FFH]

If you have dreams of California, it wouldn't hurt to add USC (Keck). Congratulations on your tremendous life accomplishments and achievements, some other schools I'd suggest if you're looking into research institutions are : U Pitt, Case Western, Wash U (They love high numbers, you have extremely good odds if your MCAT ends up being 38+) and Baylor. If you want a few safeties (not that I think you need any!) you could try a few schools like Einstein/Saint Louis University. Best of luck!

Thank you Abstractions, as a philosophy lover, I enjoy your user name. I thought about USC, I'll think harder about it. I actually will meet a doctor educated there soon, I'll ask him about it. For Wash U. that's a great recommendation. I didn't know that they would love high numbers. I just discovered that their tuition was actually not too bad for OOS. (unlike South Carolina schools, what's with the 81k OOS tuition...I can't.) All your recommendation seem good. UPitt actually is very OOS friendly and I heard so many good things bout the hospitals--used to work with someone from there.

Thank you for your compliment and your great input.

 

[Lamel]

If your MCAT comes out to be 36+, apply wherever you want. Very strong application.

I don't think you'll need more than 20 schools unless you actually want more. Be sure to balance your list with some mid tiers and safeties regardless.

 

[FFH]

If your MCAT comes out to be 36+, apply wherever you want. Very strong application.

I don't think you'll need more than 20 schools unless you actually want more. Be sure to balance your list with some mid tiers and safeties regardless.

I have trouble deciding what to use as "safeties". Do you think the SUNY schools safe enough for safeties? I was thinking the UC schools could be my mid tiers, but if there need to be more, I am also considering adding Vanderbilt/Einstein/Wash U/.

 

[Abstractions]

I have trouble deciding what to use as "safeties". Do you think the SUNY schools safe enough for safeties? I was thinking the UC schools could be my mid tiers, but if there need to be more, I am also considering adding Vanderbilt/Einstein/Wash U/.

Despite your stellar application, I'd be hesitant to call UC schools "safeties" as an OOS. I think that if your MCAT score ends up being within your predicted range, you'd be very competitive at Wash U/Vanderbilt, but I'm hesitant to call top 20 schools "safeties" for anyone.

 

[mrh125]

yea, don't add the other UCs, they're highly selective IS schools. you'd be wasting your money

 

[mrh125]

Also, if you want some good safeties you could always apply to like 10 DO schools. They'd definitely be good safeties.

 

[unnumzaan]

Also, if you want some good safeties you could always apply to like 10 DO schools. They'd definitely be good safeties.

I would not do this. Most DO schools probably wouldn't even consider someone with this high stats.

 

[mrh125]

I would not do this. Most DO schools probably wouldn't even consider someone with this high stats.

never know unless you try. i doubt any DO would turn down those with high stats honestly. DO and TX schools would be some good safeties for the OP.

 

[Movado 21]

Awesome story. Best of luck to you!

 

[nemo123]

It's hard to gauge a school list for you without an MCAT score, but your ECs are great. If you do well on your MCAT, you're fine with your school list.

 

[FFH]

yea, don't add the other UCs, they're highly selective IS schools. you'd be wasting your money

yeah. I don't really give much hope to the UC schools in general. Although UCLA actually isn't state selective.

 

[FFH]

It's hard to gauge a school list for you without an MCAT score, but your ECs are great. If you do well on your MCAT, you're fine with your school list.

Thanks! I am thinking of adding more safety schools once the score is out and if it's lower than 37. My thinking is that, I would rather not burn myself out writing way too many 2nds, instead, I should really really do well on those that I have applied as of now. The benefit of extra effort on smaller number of 2nd essays >>The benefit of having a larger number of schools with lower secondary qualities...

 

[basketcase0a0]

never know unless you try. i doubt any DO would turn down those with high stats honestly. DO and TX schools would be some good safeties for the OP.

Texas schools are required to take a large number (90% I believe) in-state applicants. So those schools are not a good "safety" for any OOS applicant, even a 4.0/40, crazy though that may seem.

 

[mrh125]

Thanks! I am thinking of adding more safety schools once the score is out and if it's lower than 37. My thinking is that, I would rather not burn myself out writing way too many 2nds, instead, I should really really do well on those that I have applied as of now. The benefit of extra effort on smaller number of 2nd essays >>The benefit of having a larger number of schools with lower secondary qualities...

that's a good thought process. stick with it, you have great stats that will open doors.

 

[el_duderino]

Your app is clearly amazing. But your list is a little odd... you have like the top 10, plus the SUNY and UC schools, and nothing else. I think you would benefit from adding a few more middle-tier schools that really interest you as safeties. Though you would need to mess things up pretty badly at interviews not to get an acceptance to several schools you already have listed.

 

[Lawpy]

Also, if you want some good safeties you could always apply to like 10 DO schools. They'd definitely be good safeties.

never know unless you try. i doubt any DO would turn down those with high stats honestly. DO and TX schools would be some good safeties for the OP.

Sorry, but no. DO adcoms will clearly see OP is using them with this rockstar app. Plus, it's also an unnecessary waste of money, effort and time. If anything, OP can sprinkle her list with few more top tier and mid tier schools, but she got this down.

 

[el_duderino]

Sorry, but no. DO adcoms will clearly see OP is using them with this rockstar app. Plus, it's also an unnecessary waste of money, effort and time. If anything, OP can sprinkle her list with few more top tier and mid tier schools, but she got this down.

Yeah, my thinking on that topic is that OP would have to do a damn fine job convincing some adcoms that she preferred DO over MD for them to even consider her at all.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah, my thinking on that topic is that OP would have to do a damn fine job convincing some adcoms that she preferred DO over MD for them to even consider her at all.

OP's on FAP too so it's a hassle. She should pick the 15 top schools she likes and enjoy the fruitful results

 

[FFH]

Your app is clearly amazing. But your list is a little odd... you have like the top 10, plus the SUNY and UC schools, and nothing else. I think you would benefit from adding a few more middle-tier schools that really interest you as safeties. Though you would need to mess things up pretty badly at interviews not to get an acceptance to several schools you already have listed.

Yeah, I also strongly feel that I need mid range schools. maybe 4 more mid range and 3 more safe ones...but that's like 26...I'm just not confident that I'll give 27 schools the same enthusiastic and the same amount of attention on their secondaries...I know most people who did more than 20 just got burnt out. But still, I don't want to fall through the crack of the top tiers, it's not an unlikely event and without a place to go.

 

[FFH]

Sorry, but no. DO adcoms will clearly see OP is using them with this rockstar app. Plus, it's also an unnecessary waste of money, effort and time. If anything, OP can sprinkle her list with few more top tier and mid tier schools, but she got this down.

I have to agree. Safeties schools are all relative. DO schools are safe but maybe not for me. Applying to DO, I feel, would be like trying to give a patient antibiotics for highly likely viral natured infection.

 

[Lawpy]

I have to agree. Safeties schools are all relative. DO schools are safe but maybe not for me. Applying to DO, I feel, would be like trying to give a patient antibiotics for highly likely viral natured infection.

Lol interesting analogy.

 

[FFH]

OP's on FAP too so it's a hassle. She should pick the 15 top schools she likes and enjoy the fruitful results

Haha, thanks, I am not sure which schools to like. I feel like you can never know enough until you go through a school as a student. My impression about my undergrads institution could not be more different when I graduate than the very rudimentary image I got when I applied.

 

[mrh125]

Sorry, but no. DO adcoms will clearly see OP is using them with this rockstar app. Plus, it's also an unnecessary waste of money, effort and time. If anything, OP can sprinkle her list with few more top tier and mid tier schools, but she got this down.

Compared to most people who apply to DOs just because they're on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of stats? . I think she could pull it off.

 

[Lawpy]

Compared to most people who apply to DOs just because they're on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of stats? . I think she could pull it off.

Well there's that lol. But generally if an applicant's stats is significantly greater than a school's accepted median stats, it's not worth to apply there. The converse is also true.

 

[FFH]

Just added USC, Einstein, Hofstra and Vanderbilt.

 

[Lawpy]

Just added USC, Einstein, Hofstra and Vanderbilt.

You should throw in Pitt if you can. People enjoyed their interviews there.

 

[FFH]

You should throw in Pitt if you can. People enjoyed their interviews there.

Yeah...I really should. I was already sold earlier, don't know how it escaped my attention again. Maybe it's a sign lol.

 

[FFH]

Added Pitt. Now look at the long list of secondaries that I'll have to write...to be honest, I never met anyone who applied to 20+ school can safety say that they never at some point just give up and copy and paste and recycle stuff. I'll just have to do my best

 

[thegypsyqueen]

Compared to most people who apply to DOs just because they're on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of stats? . I think she could pull it off.

I am sorry, but applying DO with these stats to have safeties is quite outrageous. Unless OP is interested in DO, she can apply to plenty of MD schools that would satisfy as safeties. DO would be a colossal waste of time.

 

[mrh125]

I am sorry, but applying DO with these stats to have safeties is quite outrageous. Unless OP is interested in DO, she can apply to plenty of MD schools that would satisfy as safeties. DO would be a colossal waste of time.

nah they'd be outrageously great safeties and give the DOs confidence in their ability to attract diverse students.

 

[2Infinity]

First of all, amazing story and accomplishments. Not only do you sound like an extremely hard worker but have a story and enjoy life (the skydiving club sticks out to me and will definitely be an interview point I imagine).

I don't think you'll have any trouble getting into atleast 1 of the schools you have listed, and honestly if your MCAT is a 38+ OOS midtiers might not take you seriously but it wouldn't hurt to have a few. DO NOT APPLY DO.

Best of luck!

 

[Goro]

Everything will roll with the MCAT, FFH, but the sky's the limit for you. Suggest also Wash U, U VA, Emory, BU, and Pitt, Vandy and Northwestern as mentioned above. Also consider USC, Einstein, and Baylor. Throw in Tulane if you like hot and muggy with great food.


Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Harvard University
Mayo Medical School
New York University
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Stony Brook
University of Michigan
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Diego
University of California, San Francisco
University of Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Yale University
Stanford University
Johns Hopkins University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine


We've interviewed candidates like OP and they came here too, because they simply liked the DO philosophy, or were helped medically by DOs when MD couldn't. It's one of the unspoken truths that MD candidates will use DO schools as safeties, especially if they're close to home. we're used to it.

We don't turn anyone away, whereas some of the low-tiers may consider rock stars like OP a poor investment because of the low likelihood that she'd go to, say, Drexel, when she can more likely go to Penn or Yale.

I would not do this. Most DO schools probably wouldn't even consider someone with this high stats.

 

[mrh125]

Everything will roll with the MCAT, FFH, but the sky's the limit for you. Suggest also Wash U, U VA, Emory, BU, and Pitt, Vandy and Northwestern as mentioned above. Also consider USC, Einstein, and Baylor. Throw in Tulane if you like hot and muggy with great food.


Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Harvard University
Mayo Medical School
New York University
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Stony Brook
University of Michigan
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Diego
University of California, San Francisco
University of Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Yale University
Stanford University
Johns Hopkins University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine


We've interviewed candidates like OP and they came here too, because they simply liked the DO philosophy, or were helped medically by DOs when MD couldn't. It's one of the unspoken truths that MD candidates will use DO schools as safeties, especially if they're close to home. We don't turn anyone away, whereas some of the low-tiers may consider rock stars like OP a poor investment because of the low likelihood that she'd go to, say, Drexel, when she can go to Penn or Yale.

So what would you do with an applicant OP? Would she have to jump through additional hoops to be a DO compared to the avg applicant? I think a student like her could bring a lot DO schools and a genuinely interested in DO philosophy applicant with high scores shouldn't be precluded (glad you confirmed that).

 

[Goro]

What would I do with her? Probably accept her as soon as I left the interview room, unless she was a babbling idiot or was a robot. Like any candidate, she'd just have to convince me she'd be a good student and a good doctor.

Jump through hoops? Of course not. She have to, at the minimum know something about Osteopathy, and our particular school (we expect people to do their homework...would you buy a new car without test driving it first?). If she shadowed a DO, and/or had a DO LOR, more the better. Shows a lot of commitment.

So what would you do with an applicant OP? Would she have to jump through additional hoops to be a DO compared to the avg applicant? I think a student like her could bring a lot DO schools and a genuinely interested in DO philosophy applicant with high scores shouldn't be precluded (glad you confirmed that).

 

[FFH]

Thank you Goro for answering my call. I totally believe DO's philosophy is much needed to provide the holistic care to many people having trouble accessing stable, long term, management or preventable care. I just have a different mentality, not a better one, just different. And yes, I think I would definitely shadow and work with DOs before I decide to pursue that path. I believe that (excessive) homework beforehand is the best way to win--I once read professor and course evaluation for four days straight just to design my curriculum 3 years in advance and everything worked out amazingly according to the plan. I can definitely be a robot...during halloween. When I have half a glass of wine, I also turns into babbling idiot. So I would avoid interviewing drunk wearing R2D2 costume.

 

[basketcase0a0]

Added Pitt. Now look at the long list of secondaries that I'll have to write...to be honest, I never met anyone who applied to 20+ school can safety say that they never at some point just give up and copy and paste and recycle stuff. I'll just have to do my best

I applied to 25 and never copied and pasted/gave up. So it's possible, don't let that discourage you.

 

[FFH]

I applied to 25 and never copied and pasted/gave up. So it's possible, don't let that discourage you.

The man! Yes! No give-ups!

 

[thegypsyqueen]

nah they'd be outrageously great safeties and give the DOs confidence in their ability to attract diverse students.

You misunderstand me. Applicants with 4.0s and 38+s shouldn't apply DO as a safety. Could they get in? Obviously. If their interests are in MD, then they should pursue that as there odds are very very good that they will get accepted.

 

[FFH]

Duke is dead. I'm shot down because I did not take Molecular Bio when I did my second undergraduate degree at Columbia. I did not take into bio neither and instead I took a bunch of advance bio. The admission lady said the fact that I had a prior double degree in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology from China doesn't count. And I can't take it now because they must already be on my transcript. I don't blame myself for not having foreseen this admission requirement for 1 of the schools when I designed my curriculum at Columbia. I'll just have to let it go. Could have been amazing though. Duke.

 

[Abstractions]

Duke is dead. I'm shot down because I did not take Molecular Bio when I did my second undergraduate degree at Columbia. I did not take into bio neither and instead I took a bunch of advance bio. The admission lady said the fact that I had a prior double degree in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology from China doesn't count. And I can't take it now because they must already be on my transcript. I don't blame myself for not having foreseen this admission requirement for 1 of the schools when I designed my curriculum at Columbia. I'll just have to let it go. Could have been amazing though. Duke.

You didn't take a single class from Columbia that could fulfill any of these requirements? I'm under the impression that the course doesn't have to strictly deal with cell bio, e.g. any genetics/molecular biology course would be sufficient.

1. The "prerequisites" for Cellular Biology are also purposefully left to the individual undergraduate institution, given the cross-disciplinary course offerings which may include cell biology, molecular biology, and genetics together in appropriate courses with or without laboratory.

 

[FFH]

You didn't take a single class from Columbia that could fulfill any of these requirements? I'm under the impression that the course doesn't have to strictly deal with cell bio, e.g. any genetics/molecular biology course would be sufficient.

1. The "prerequisites" for Cellular Biology are also purposefully left to the individual undergraduate institution, given the cross-disciplinary course offerings which may include cell biology, molecular biology, and genetics together in appropriate courses with or without laboratory.

None according to the lady picking up the phone at the admission office, she said it has to be one of the three, or have one of the names in the title. So no. It's okay, I'm used to work around the system and not to bend the system.

Since I've already gotten a Molecular Bio degree from china, I purposely took different things in Columbia to show that i'm willing to learn new things. It only takes 5 bio courses in addition to other science classes to graduate with a bio major, because I have prior accepted transfer credits from China. I took Physio, Virology, Dev Bio, Biochem, and Bio Lab. As you see, none seem to fit.

 

[Abstractions]

None according to the lady picking up the phone at the admission office, she said it has to be one of the three, or have one of the names in the title. So no. It's okay, I'm used to work around the system and not to bend the system.

Since I've already gotten a Molecular Bio degree from china, I purposely took different things in Columbia to show that i'm willing to learn new things. It only takes 5 bio courses in addition to other science classes to graduate with a bio major, because I have prior accepted transfer credits from China. I took Physio, Virology, Dev Bio, Biochem, and Bio Lab. As you see, none seem to fit.

They won't count virology?

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Thank you for offering your perspective. I am asking for help with:
1. if you think I need to apply to more school (got FAP, so money isn't an issue)

Lucky you for not having to concern yourself with this issue, however, it's quite conceivable you'll get into many of the schools on your list. With your stats, the issue isn't which ones, but which ones do you really like? Apply broadly (your IS schools, plus 5-7 top schools) and relax.

 

[FFH]

They won't count virology?

After I get my MCAT score, I'll email Dean Wallace and plead for my chance. He said he liked my knowledge on music back then when we chatted during a med school fairs. I'll show them the long ass list of courses I took for my Molecular Bio degree in china as well as the syllabus of Virology and Dev Bio that I took at Columbia.The two course when combined definitely have enough molecular biology and genetics content in them that are equivalent to 1 intro molecular bio course.

 

[FFH]

Lucky you for not having to concern yourself with this issue, however, it's quite conceivable you'll get into many of the schools on your list. With your stats, the issue isn't which ones, but which ones do you really like? Apply broadly (your IS schools, plus 5-7 top schools) and relax.

Haha, yeah, I feel good that I got FAP. However, if you think about it, the fact that I qualify for FAP might means that I ain't so financially lucky right? Thank you for the confidence shot. I applied to 25 schools, can't relax until I get in though. Then I'll **** off to be a bum in Europe for a few months.

Medical School application really sucks for the family who makes just a little bit above the poverty line. I mean, it can cost as much as 1/3 of their annual income just to do the application. No wonder the percentage of students belonging to the top 25% income are increasing among the applicants.

 

[snowflakes]

Make sure you apply to the schools known for giving out scholarships. You have a super strong and well rounded app that's also interesting with things like the sky diving club.

Here are the schools i know of that give out multiple scholarships but make sure you search on sdn for more.

Penn (35 full tuition and more partial tuition)
WashU (I believe 18 full tuition, but not sure about the number. More scholarships available if you're a minority and/or a woman)
Duke
UChicago
UCLA (30 full cost of attendance scholarships, more full tuition scholarships)
Michigan
Vanderbilt
Pittsburgh
Northwestern (high numbers seem to be a prerequisite for consideration, moreso than other schools)
NYU (has a few full cost of attendance scholarships)
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic (32 students per class, full tuition scholarship to all 32)
Mayo (depending on the year may offer scholarship to all of its students)

You have a strong application, and I'd recommend applying to as many schools that you know offer lots of scholarships as you can, given you would attend with a scholarship. If you are a competitive applicant, it's hard to predict which school will offer you one, so it's definitely worth applying a bit broadly. Best of luck!

PS most schools will offer at least one scholarship, but above are the schools in the top 25 that have at least several. I do know that Cornell does not offer any merit aid, and I'm sure there are a couple other schools with a similar policy, but I am not sure which ones.