4.0/40 rejected everywhere :o( Not sure what to do?

[IlDestriero]

Her interview skills may need help as well. Perhaps it is worth asking for a practice interview with someone.

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[ridethecliche]

I guess, but then they rejected her afterwards.

From my experience, if the school has rejected you previously, you have to have done something significantly different with your application the second time around for it to get any serious reconsideration.

I mixed up threads. Thought these were waitlists.

I wouldn't bother applying to schools that previously rejected the op unless they're not counted in the school total as you said.

 

[flowerpower123]

Yeah, I think it would be foolish to assume that I necessarily would have had a positive outcome had this not have happened.
There are certainly lots of additional things I can work on.
I'd really like to be in school, like pursuing an MPH or MHS, but it seems like the general consensus is that I should focus on additional work.
Like y'all suggested earlier, I'll at least try calling admissions to see if any would be able offer additional suggestions.
Plus I'll apply to ~25 more

 

[johnnytest]

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I don't know.. I feel it's almost like a betrayal to have a letter writer write negative things about someone you would presume they should be supporting. I understand letters need to be honest and objective but I just think it should have been common courtesy for the writer in question to politely decline and say "No, I don't believe I can STRONGLY SUPPORT your application for medical school." Of course this depends on how the OP requested the LOR from the writer in the first place. I'm pretty sure he knew what he was writing and probably did not even give the possible ramifications a second thought as evident by the typo/error. I wouldn't be surprised if it was written hastily in a day.

I think I speak for others when I say you have our sympathy in regards to what happened. But, I would like to echo what everyone else here has said. Many people with stats similar to yours have noted if they applied solely to your list they would be at zero acceptances. You definitely need to broaden your list. I'm sure there are schools that are mid-tier and would love to have someone with your academic caliber. Also, and take this with a grain of salt because N = 1. For many of these top schools, they do not look favorably upon re-applicants. One of my good friends was a re-applicant at Harvard and a few other Ivies this cycle. Eerily similar MCAT scores to yours, 26 (1st cycle, 3 IIs, 0 Acceptances) to a 38 (current cycle, multiple IIs, multiple acceptances). Basically, someone from admissions at HMS told him there was very little chance Harvard accepts re-applicants, something around <1%. He said this is the underlying prejudice top schools have for re-applicants. I didn't apply to 90% of the schools that you did so I don't know anything about them and if this reapplicant prejudice is true or not. Note, by reapplicant I mean school specific and not cycle-wise, if that makes sense. Why my friend (non-URM) applied to HMS with a 26 is beyond me...

Also, I think if you stay in school make sure what you do fits well with your career goals. I think an applicant that has a consistent and clear theme in their app is looked upon favorably. In other words, be sure you can answer "Why did you pursue MPH or MHS?", "How does it fit in with your career goals?", etc during interviews.

Best of Luck!

 

[Lawgiver]

Chances are with your high degree of achievements, only high tier schools would give you any interview considerations. Schools pick students who are likely to go to their school, as no one wants to be used as a "back-up" piece of mind for a student that's eventually going to matriculate into Harvard med. From the viewpoint of a lower-tier school, which you may be in the 99th percentile for, they know that you aren't going to choose their school (or if you do, it is merely because you had no other choice), so why would they waste an interview spot on you when there are other potentially qualified applicants that are just dying to get in, albeit with lesser achievements? Which is why the most dangerous zone to be in is the high-mid tier application: not good enough to enter the top institutions, but the lower tier ones won't even consider you because they think you won't go to their school anyways.

I was met with a somewhat similar circumstance this cycle when I applied to a bunch of lower tier schools for safety before I got my MCAT scores back, and it turned out to be much higher than expected. Got into my first choice, but not a single II from any one of my "back-up" schools. It's a twisted system we live in, but not entirely unfathomable.

What u call twisted I see as a no BS system. Tells me adcomms are not tools and actually live in reality. Which I appreciate.

 

[maccu5000]

To maximize your likelihood of an interview at the schools with median stats lower than your own, write your secondaries in a way that they know you're seriously interested in them.

 

[flowerpower123]

and probably did not even give the possible ramifications a second thought as evident by the typo/error. I wouldn't be surprised if it was written hastily in a day.

I think you're probably right.

 

[atj]

write your secondaries in a way that they know you're seriously interested in them.

Ummmm...this is a ridiculous statement.

Write EVERY secondary as if you're seriously interested in that school, regardless of low-tier/upper-tier. Take the time to research each school you apply to and tailor your secondary essays to their prompts, demonstrating that you understand their mission and will be a good fit.

 

[maccu5000]

Ummmm...this is a ridiculous statement.

Write EVERY secondary as if you're seriously interested in that school, regardless of low-tier/upper-tier. Take the time to research each school you apply to and tailor your secondary essays to their prompts, demonstrating that you understand their mission and will be a good fit.

I don't know what's so ridiculous about it. Of course one should research every school and try to demonstrate you're a good fit. But giving extra love to schools that would normally pass over you for having "too high" stats is also a good idea. There's only so much time in a day, and you can only be especially thoughtful with a select few.

 

[atj]

I don't know what's so ridiculous about it. Of course one should research every school and try to demonstrate you're a good fit. But giving extra love to schools that would normally pass over you for having "too high" stats is also a good idea. There's only so much time in a day, and you can only be especially thoughtful with a select few.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Statements like "you can only be especially thoughtful with a select few" make sense if you submitted your AMCAS months after it opened in June. To have the best shot at avoiding multiple application cycles, give yourself enough time to build a complete application before AMCAS even opens. As the OP has hopefully learned, thoroughly vetting your LOR writers is an important part of that process.

 

[bkclts]

1. Have you kept any 'written' record of your conversation with your PI regarding his 'inadvertent' mistake?
2. If you decide not to use his recommendation next time, perhaps you can schedule an appointment to speak to the department head in charge of the lab. Bring the proof of conversation, explain the situation and seek his/her advice and see if the head is willing to vouch for you and write an explanation to the schools you have interviewed. I am sure it won't change a thing in this cycle but at least it may clear your name. Note - this is announcing war with your PI so you need to think carefully and clearly before proceeding.
3. I do not know if the following action would help or is appropriate so you need to speak to some medical school application advisers. Usually in secondary application, schools allow you to explain any special circumstance or personal difficulty. If you plan to reapply to those schools you have applied before, perhaps you can include this explanation but make sure not to play the blame game because it doesn't look good on you. I also believe the majority of Med schools won't care to get involved because there are enough qualified applicants to keep them busy.
4. It's possible some schools would read the rec. as part of the screening and note the red-flag. Unless you feel strongly about some of the schools you've applied to and believe they can look past what (seemed to have) happened, it's probably to your advantage not to reapply to them again so there's less explanation (and disappointment) you need to do the next time around. It's unfortunate but probably more clean and you can focus on talking about your strength instead of defending yourself.
5. If you are lucky enough, the department head may even agree to write you a rec. on behalf of your PI for the next time around?

 

[flowerpower123]

1. Yes... our conversations have been through e-mail, so I have written record.
Since posting last time I've found out that he also said I only went in for several hours / wk, which is additionally annoying because I devoted no less than 25 hr/wk to his work... Plus, the overall tone of his letter is likely less than stellar, objective inaccuracies aside... I really don't want to deal with him anymore. I like your suggestion about the department head. One physician I know who was on an admission committee suggested the same thing. I'm not sure what to do, I really wanted to go to the schools that I applied to this cycle, but like you said... they have so many great applicants, there'd be no real reason to deal with my nonsense.

 

[Chansey]

1. Yes... our conversations have been through e-mail, so I have written record.
Since posting last time I've found out that he also said I only went in for several hours / wk, which is additionally annoying because I devoted no less than 25 hr/wk to his work... Plus, the overall tone of his letter is likely less than stellar, objective inaccuracies aside... I really don't want to deal with him anymore. I like your suggestion about the department head. One physician I know who was on an admission committee suggested the same thing. I'm not sure what to do, I really wanted to go to the schools that I applied to this cycle, but like you said... they have so many great applicants, there'd be no real reason to deal with my nonsense.

Are you sure that the medical schools you applied to will pull out your old application and re-read your old essays and LORs? Adcoms are very busy people - I'd be surprised if they looked at your old application that closely. They read thousands of applications each cycle. Do you really think they would remember details from your old app the next time you applied? I wouldn't let your old app stop you from re-applying to those schools, if you really want to attend those schools.

(If it makes you feel better, you probably would have been rejected from Harvard, Yale, etc even if your letter writer didn't try to sabotage you. Getting into those schools is incredibly difficult. Acceptance requires a history of leadership or a remarkable research record. A high GPA and MCAT isn't enough - I would know.)

 

[ridethecliche]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Statements like "you can only be especially thoughtful with a select few" make sense if you submitted your AMCAS months after it opened in June. To have the best shot at avoiding multiple application cycles, give yourself enough time to build a complete application before AMCAS even opens. As the OP has hopefully learned, thoroughly vetting your LOR writers is an important part of that process.

Why though? Why can't you budget time to apply to lots of schools and do good secondaries for them? I did that for 45 schools this cycle... Yeah, you can reuse a lot of material, but you have to put in a hook somewhere. Sure, I hated myself by the time I was done secondaries. BUT I GOT IN!

1. Yes... our conversations have been through e-mail, so I have written record.
Since posting last time I've found out that he also said I only went in for several hours / wk, which is additionally annoying because I devoted no less than 25 hr/wk to his work... Plus, the overall tone of his letter is likely less than stellar, objective inaccuracies aside... I really don't want to deal with him anymore. I like your suggestion about the department head. One physician I know who was on an admission committee suggested the same thing. I'm not sure what to do, I really wanted to go to the schools that I applied to this cycle, but like you said... they have so many great applicants, there'd be no real reason to deal with my nonsense.

Why? Because you have nothing to lose. Those schools are unlikely to look at you again. From their standpoint, you're not submitting that letter because you realized it painted you in a bad light and you're censoring it now because there's no way you're going to include it again.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Interesting to see this thread again, I had been following it for a while. Hope things are going better for you, OP, now that you've found a possible red flag in your application! You're academically sound, but like all of us, you just might still have a lot to learn. Some work on interviews (as well as choosing better friends), along with a broader school list, and you should be good to go.

 

[Enginerd2016]

My two cents: there are many other great schools that you didn't apply to, look into those! If you are set on applying to the same schools add at least 10 others and maybe 5 safeties!

 

[atj]

Why though? Why can't you budget time to apply to lots of schools and do good secondaries for them? I did that for 45 schools this cycle... Yeah, you can reuse a lot of material, but you have to put in a hook somewhere. Sure, I hated myself by the time I was done secondaries. BUT I GOT IN!

I think you replied to the wrong poster...see my previous post below. I was arguing the same thing you are.

Ummmm...this is a ridiculous statement.
Write EVERY secondary as if you're seriously interested in that school, regardless of low-tier/upper-tier. Take the time to research each school you apply to and tailor your secondary essays to their prompts, demonstrating that you understand their mission and will be a good fit.

 

[ridethecliche]

@atj yeah you're right.

 

[gyngyn]

Are you sure that the medical schools you applied to will pull out your old application and re-read your old essays and LORs? Adcoms are very busy people - I'd be surprised if they looked at your old application that closely. They read thousands of applications each cycle. Do you really think they would remember details from your old app the next time you applied? I wouldn't let your old app stop you from re-applying to those schools, if you really want to attend those schools.

If a person with these stats is a re-applicant you can bet that the old application will be reviewed.

 

[bkclts]

If a person with these stats is a re-applicant you can bet that the old application will be reviewed.

I believe the schools would 'note' the reason(s) why they don't accept you so for re-applicants, they'll look it up and see if you have improved since you were last rejected. They may not need to review the whole thing but that 'note' is bad enough.

 

[familyaerospace]

Are you sure that the medical schools you applied to will pull out your old application and re-read your old essays and LORs?

Mercer does and Medical College of Georgia both do.