4th Year DO student, ask me anything...

[SLC]

What apps do you recommend for note taking or just MED school in general? I've heard netters flash cards are gold

Personally I think App's are overrated. I didn't get much use out of them in M1 and M2. I will tell you what I tried though: (keep in mind that I use Apple computers and iPhone/iPad). The last 3 on my list I used a fair bit all through school, the others were very hit-and-miss.

1. Bento: it's a database software that Apple sells, you can create custom databases with whatever data fields you want. If someone was good and efficient with it it would be an excellent way to store bugs and drugs. Even info about genetic disorders or other disease processes. But it can be cumbersome if you aren't that savy. I ended up neglecting to keep my databases up-to-date so it wasn't that useful for studying. The huge plus here is that it also has an iPhone app that can allow you to access your databases so studying on the go could be easier.

2. Touchcards: iPhone app, also online. I created sets of flash cards that I could use to drill facts into my head. Again I was less consistent with this, but it was an effective tool when I used it. I could look my username up and share it here if people wanted, my decks are probably still out there! Many classmates used my decks for their own study as well.

3. Eponyms: iPhone app with an extensive list of eponyms that you can read. Also has the ability to "mark" the ones you've read so you can quickly review later.

4. Epocrates: excellent drug and disease database that made pharm study much easier. This one was also extremely nice to have on rotations. They usually let med-students have a free account, otherwise the subscription can cost a fair bit of $$$. App and online.

5. Uptodate: this is like a legit medical Wikipedia. You can look just about anything up and it will summarize it, and give you links to the relevant literature. Again, subscription is $$$ but my school payed for it. If your school pays, you may, or may-not get access to the app. But it's online and in iPhone app form.

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[Chubaka31]

I didn't worry too much about research, it's not really something I am that interested in, plus I also have a family so time management was an issue.

That being said, I have a friend in the current M1 class who found a summer research opportunity with the MD program in the city the CHC is in. I really think this will be good when residency application season comes around. My advice would be to search for those types of opportunities. Also remember that you can also write up case reports and get them published as a student. It's not research, but it is still scholarly activity that is a good idea for interested students.

As far as my match, I couldn't be happier I graduated on Friday, and I'll move out to the new digs and begin residency in the next few weeks!

On the topic of case reports and publishing them as scholarly activity, can you elaborate on this a bit more? I am interested in this.

 

[Endorphins98]

Awesome to see a fellow Utahn on here!! What was the hardest part of school for you? Was the transition from undergrad to med school difficult? Also, congrats on the graduation and residency!! The light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[SLC]

On the topic of case reports and publishing them as scholarly activity, can you elaborate on this a bit more? I am interested in this.

Basically if you see an interesting case on rotations or in some other clinical setting, you can try to write a short description of it, how the patient presented, what diagnostics were used to arrive at the correct diagnosis etc. it's not research, but most of the specialty journals have these write ups in each edition, so other providers can see it and perhaps not miss a similar case should it come across their clinic.

Even if you don't get it published, you can almost certainly present a poster on the case at conferences.

I had a number of interesting cases, including a guy on a FM rotation with a treatment resistant E. coli UTI. I was questioning him on one of his follow-up visits and he informed me he had developed pneumaturia and suddenly his problem became clear. His infection wasn't treatment resistant, he had Crohn's disease and had developed a colo-vesicular fistula and was simply continuously seeding the bladder with E. coli from the bowel. After talking to a few gastroenterologists, this is not at all common so a case report would have been good.

I should have written that case up, because most PCP's would probably play around with different antibiotics before referring to urology only to have the urologist make the discovery.

 

[SLC]

Awesome to see a fellow Utahn on here!! What was the hardest part of school for you? Was the transition from undergrad to med school difficult? Also, congrats on the graduation and residency!! The light at the end of the tunnel!

The hardest part was definitely staying motivated to study hard in 3rd and 4th year, you sorta get to the point where you're on your own and many preceptors won't assign study topics so it'll be up to you to go home and read about things you saw. If you don't, you may find your knowledge base atrophying since there will be entire areas of knowledge you won't use for months at a time.

 

[Waillin]

I am interested in SOMA and am applying this cycle. What did you think about how they determine your site (Oregon) and did you get the site you want? Which are competitive?

 

[SLC]

I am interested in SOMA and am applying this cycle. What did you think about how they determine your site (Oregon) and did you get the site you want? Which are competitive?

When I was accepted to SOMA, we didn't have our sites assigned at acceptance. In other words, we all came to SOMA not knowing where we would go for years 2-4. During the first semester of OMS-1 we had a "match" of sorts where we all submitted ranks of where we wanted to be. The computer then tried to match us all as high on our list as possible. There were a few sites that were just plain crowded, like NYC and Seattle, and people ended up having to write essays about why they wanted those sites and the site officials picked the 10 or so they thought were most deserving. A lot of people were not happy with things at first, but I think everyone was OK in the end.

I got the site I ranked #1 (Oregon); and I loved it there. The faculty in Oregon were great, and I loved that city.

As far as what's competitive, that seems to change with the year. Phoenix has often been competitive because people can stay put for all 4 years if they match to Phoenix, but for some reason it wasn't competitive with my class. Exactly 10 people ranked it #1 and all 10 of them got to go there. Flagstaff also wasn't competitive, but has been in other years. Seattle was very competitive with my class but hasn't always been that competitive. Tucson was moderately competitive for my class, but generally isn't from what I remember.

Relative competitiveness of each of the CHC's will depend mainly on the mix of people that get accepted each year and where those people are either from, or where they see themselves wanting to go.

Also, certain CHC's have reputations for being better for students wanting to match into certain specialties. I think it's bogus TBH, but it seems to persist. For example, Ohio seems to be popular with people wanting to do EM. Word on the street is that the EM rotations out there are really strong or something. Portland has more of a Primary Care reputation, and it seemed like my class had a few who wanted Alabama (no longer available) because they were interested in Surgery and those rotations were more often in academic settings. Also some CHC's have better 2nd year experiences than others. I did FM for all of 2nd year, but some of my classmates in other CHC's got to do more of a "mini-rotation" in other fields such as surgery, anesthesiology, OB, etc. One of my best friends from my class got to do surgical procedures as a 2nd year even.

My best advice would be to pick the place you can see yourself being happiest as a regular citizen. If you can't see yourself wanting to live in rural northern AZ, then don't pick Flagstaff for example. Beyond that, I'd pay close attention to the presentations that they give on interview day and email the school with any additional questions as you make your list of preferences.

 

[dfib slim]

Basically if you see an interesting case on rotations or in some other clinical setting, you can try to write a short description of it, how the patient presented, what diagnostics were used to arrive at the correct diagnosis etc. it's not research, but most of the specialty journals have these write ups in each edition, so other providers can see it and perhaps not miss a similar case should it come across their clinic.

Even if you don't get it published, you can almost certainly present a poster on the case at conferences.

I had a number of interesting cases, including a guy on a FM rotation with a treatment resistant E. coli UTI. I was questioning him on one of his follow-up visits and he informed me he had developed pneumaturia and suddenly his problem became clear. His infection wasn't treatment resistant, he had Crohn's disease and had developed a colo-vesicular fistula and was simply continuously seeding the bladder with E. coli from the bowel. After talking to a few gastroenterologists, this is not at all common so a case report would have been good.

I should have written that case up, because most PCP's would probably play around with different antibiotics before referring to urology only to have the urologist make the discovery.

Studying for Step 1 makes it seem like this happens all the time, haha.

 

[SLC]

Studying for Step 1 makes it seem like this happens all the time, haha.

It does happen all the time. I probably had 4 or 5 cases that I could have written up easily.

 

[SLC]

Any last minute questions before AACOMAS opens folks? Also, I'm moving out to the east coast to start residency this weekend and I'm guessing that's going to all but end my ability to participate on SDN so get your questions in if you have them!

SLC

 

[Promethean]

Any last minute questions before AACOMAS opens folks? Also, I'm moving out to the east coast to start residency this weekend and I'm guessing that's going to all but end my ability to participate on SDN so get your questions in if you have them!

SLC

Congrats! Thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone so far. Good luck to you and your family on your new adventures!

 

[FutureD0C17]

3.2, 2.7, 30 (12B, 11V, 7P)

230's, 570's (step/level 1)
230's, 520's (step/level 2)

Any last minute questions before AACOMAS opens folks? Also, I'm moving out to the east coast to start residency this weekend and I'm guessing that's going to all but end my ability to participate on SDN so get your questions in if you have them!

SLC

First of all, I want to congratulate you!

Second, and I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, is the fact that you didn't match initially. I find this shocking and eye opening and I think future DO's should realize that even with great scores, nothing is guaranteed. Luckily there was a bunch of spots reserved solely for DO's in the scramble, however, this won't be the case in the future after the merge. DO's really seem to be in a bind now and the match is only going to get harder as the years pass. This realization has me leaning toward PA school now because it's too scary to think about all the time, effort, money, sacrifices..etc that a medical student has to make only to potentially be left on the curb at the end. Any thoughts?

Best of luck in residency!

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

The merger goes into affect in 2019 correct ? So it will mainly affect graduates of 2020 and or also 2019 graduates ?

 

[Portlandia8]

During preclinical years, what do you think separates (in terms of time spent studying, attending class, going to office hours, utilizing certain books, pre-studying lectures, studying board prep materials like First Aid) the top 15% of the class from the rest of the class?

Can you elaborate on how a truly effective study group worked for you? I recall you mentioning that your group would assign topics to each person. How can this be more efficient than studying each topic on your own? I imagine you would be working hard to master the topic and present it to your group which may be rather time consuming.

Any advice for getting letters of recommendations for residency programs?

 

[SLC]

First of all, I want to congratulate you!

Thank you!

Second, and I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, is the fact that you didn't match initially. I find this shocking and eye opening and I think future DO's should realize that even with great scores, nothing is guaranteed. Luckily there was a bunch of spots reserved solely for DO's in the scramble, however, this won't be the case in the future after the merge. DO's really seem to be in a bind now and the match is only going to get harder as the years pass. This realization has me leaning toward PA school now because it's too scary to think about all the time, effort, money, sacrifices..etc that a medical student has to make only to potentially be left on the curb at the end. Any thoughts?

Best of luck in residency!

It was a stressful week, but let me clarify a few things.

1. I didn't scramble into an AOA program, I SOAP'd into an open ACGME program. One at a top 15 school. The program I got into is one of the strongest and most established in the country. I'm actually 100% thrilled with the way things worked out. The programs I ranked highly before were very strong, but seemed very focused on procedures, perhaps even to the detriment of the rest of the stuff an FM doc needs to be strong at. Texas A&M is very into teaching their FM residents to do colonoscopy for example. I got really excited about that, without really thinking about whether my likely practice location will make colonoscopy possible or practical (it won't). My new program is strong all the way around, not just in procedures.

2. Every single person I spoke with during SOAP week was 100% shocked that I didn't match. Nobody had any explanation even after looking through my app. The same happened with the faculty at school. The program I'm going to was very thrilled to have the chance to scoop me up and said if I'd applied there they would have made a very strong push to get me.

3. I have classmates with lower scores on boards, even board failures. Classmates who failed or low-passed rotations, and who still matched. Sure it sucked for me, but I'm convinced it was a fluke. Or for those of you who believe in "fate" I honestly feel it was fate. There are way too many things about the program that make me a perfect fit, and then a perfect fit for me. Not all (or even most) of them are academic either. Like crazy connections to the town that I didn't know I had and stuff!

I honestly wouldn't go to PA school because of a fear of not matching. There are still more spots than USMD's and DO's. And the match rates hold steady year after year.

Come to think of it, there was one mistake I made. And that was overestimating myself and turning down interviews. I skipped out on two interviews that I had scheduled. One of those places didn't fill. I can pretty much guarantee I'd be there if I'd just gone to the interview.

I also turned down interview offers, probably 6 total. I should have gone on those too.

In the end, the place in at is way better. So I'm OK. But it would have been smart to go on all the interviews I possibly could.

 

[The Best Psychiatrist]

You may have already answered this, but how many schools did you apply to? And how many interviews/acceptances followed?

 

[SLC]

You may have already answered this, but how many schools did you apply to? And how many interviews/acceptances followed?

Can't remember how many. But my top choice was the first interview and I got in so I didn't go on any others.

 

[SLC]

During preclinical years, what do you think separates (in terms of time spent studying, attending class, going to office hours, utilizing certain books, pre-studying lectures, studying board prep materials like First Aid) the top 15% of the class from the rest of the class?

Mainly it's all down to those who've learned to be efficient, focused, and who have a strong idea of what they're wanting to accomplish. I don't think it's all as simple as time spent studying, materials used, etc. Some people just seem to have things figured out in a way that really works well for them.

Also, some people just have this freakish ability to learn things well and quickly. There were a few in my class who I don't have any other explanation for. They were just machines!

Can you elaborate on how a truly effective study group worked for you? I recall you mentioning that your group would assign topics to each person. How can this be more efficient than studying each topic on your own? I imagine you would be working hard to master the topic and present it to your group which may be rather time consuming.

Oh, we all studied each topic on our own. But we were extra well versed in our one or two topics we were to teach the others about. I was really strong in anatomy, and physiology, another was particularly good with biochem and genetics/molecular bio. Another was better with pathology and pharm etc. we all brought eachother up and helped fill the holes in eachother' knowledge base.

Any advice for getting letters of recommendations for residency programs?

Ask what your letter writer would like to see from you in order to write you an excellent letter of recommendation. Then do them one better!

Snatch up any rotation you can get in an academic setting and apply the above advice on each and every one of them.

 

[SLC]

The merger goes into affect in 2019 correct ? So it will mainly affect graduates of 2020 and or also 2019 graduates ?

My understanding is that the merger will slowly eat away at the AOA match as programs gain ACGME accreditation. If that correct, not only will the AOA match get progressively smaller, but the quality of the programs will get progressively worse too.

 

[FutureD0C17]

I'm glad everything worked out SLC. It has to feel like the stars aligned just for you. Awesome!

One more thought that maybe you can weigh in on; do you think your non-trad status played any role? Maybe the programs were thinking the wife/kids were going to be an added layer of hassle they didn't want to deal with? I still can't get over it!

My understanding is that the merger will slowly eat away at the AOA match as programs gain ACGME accreditation. If that correct, not only will the AOA match get progressively smaller, but the quality of the programs will get progressively worse too.

Agreed, I wouldn't want any part of the AOA programs that drag their feet. I feel like the entire process/changeover is going to be a blow for DO's. All those who match AOA uncontested now will soon be pitted against MD's for a smaller # of spots. The SOAP spots reserved for DO's will be gone. The only saving grace is if the IMG's get tightly squeezed out of the entire process, but that scenario isn't a given at all. I just can't help but feel like entering DO school now is an extremely high stakes gamble that may not be worth it. IDK...just thinking and ranting I guess.

 

[SLC]

I'm glad everything worked out SLC. It has to feel like the stars aligned just for you. Awesome!

One more thought that maybe you can weigh in on; do you think your non-trad status played any role? Maybe the programs were thinking the wife/kids were going to be an added layer of hassle they didn't want to deal with? I still can't get over it!

I guess it's possible. The NRMP counsels applicants that they don't have to discuss those matters in interviews and that it's off limits for programs to ask about it. It's hard for me to answer the "tell me about yourself" question without bringing up my wife and kids though so I usually did.

Still in FM, I gotta think that wouldn't be a big issue, if it's even an issue at all. I really just think that I focused on the wrong programs, and didn't build a long enough rank list.

Like I said, if I'd just gone on that last interview I almost certainly would have matched at that program. I cancelled it and one other in the same town because they were not great programs, the interviews were on New Year's eve and day, and I'd already been on 9 others. It's not that that was a bad program, but it's nowhere near the quality of the place I'm going now, like not even in the same ballpark. I would absolutely have been disappointed with that match.

I even looked into the place I'm going when I was selecting places to apply. I checked their website and convinced myself that this program was out of my league and wouldn't consider me and decided not to apply. So despite the stress that not matching was, it really couldn't have turned out any better in the end.

The other thing that was cool (if that can be said) about SOAP'ing is that the rules get relaxed a bit. We were told we weren't allowed to initiate contact with programs, but that once a program had reached out to us we could talk about anything we wanted. This meant that programs were able to "promise" spots to us in advance if they chose to. I had 2 offers promised to me, and a 3rd offer that was coming in the 2nd round if I didn't accept either of the other 2. The PD at the place I am going called me tuesday afternoon and told me to relax the rest of the day because they were giving me one of their spots the next morning when offers went out. Another program did the same.

The third program called multiple times monday and tuesday, they were really blown away that I hadn't matched in the main match and they were stuck between me and one other person (they only had one spot to give). They called wednesday morning before offers went out and told me that they stayed in the office till late in the night tuesday trying to decide which of us to offer in the first round and ultimately decided they were going to offer the spot to the other applicant, but they said it was only because they had to make a choice. They said they legitimately wished they had two spots because they really liked both of us a lot! When offers came in, we had 2 hours to accept or reject them, after which the offers were taken away till the next round. The person asked me to wait till later in the accept/reject window to accept anything because if the other person went somewhere else they wanted to have a chance to offer me that spot in the 2nd round. They were basically saying that if I'd wait a bit, and the other person rejected their offer, I'd essentially have 3 offers to choose from because I could rest assured that I'd have their spot in the 2nd round.

They called me about 20 mins in and told me the applicant had indeed taken the spot, and to jump on any 1st round offers I had because theirs would no longer be available. I still hadn't seen my offers (though I knew they were coming) because of a computer glitch that NRMP was having, but it was nice to know that the other offer was gone. I really appreciated their candor, and it was flattering that they went through that trouble in the off chance that I might still be available.

So again, yes it was stressful. But I really do think it was a fluke that I went unmatched, and things worked out just fine in the end. It's not something I would worry about if I were doing this all over again. DO's are going to be just fine in the coming years, maybe even better off than they are now. I really don't think matching will be an issue.

 

[yes_sir_44]

Could you elaborate more as to why you think DOs might be better off in the long run with this merger? I see a lot of posts on SDN saying the merger won't be good for DOs. I understand all this is speculation but I wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[SLC]

Could you elaborate more as to why you think DOs might be better off in the long run with this merger? I see a lot of posts on SDN saying the merger won't be good for DOs. I understand all this is speculation but I wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

Right now the ACGME exists to accredit GME for USMD's, with the merger it will become our accrediting body as well. I can't see how programs will be allowed to have systematic discriminatory practices against DO's once that happens, at least not while maintaining their ACGME accreditation.

I'm not saying the doors to BWH internal medicine are going to be flung open. But I expect there to be rules against having a no DO policy.

And there's still more spots than USMD's and DO's, that's not likely to change for a good long while still.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

You guys are making me nervous to go to KCU.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

You guys are making me nervous to go to KCU.

KCU specifically or the DO route?

 

[22031 Alum]

Right now the ACGME exists to accredit GME for USMD's, with the merger it will become our accrediting body as well. I can't see how programs will be allowed to have systematic discriminatory practices against DO's once that happens, at least not while maintaining their ACGME accreditation.

I'm not saying the doors to BWH internal medicine are going to be flung open. But I expect there to be rules against having a no DO policy.

And there's still more spots than USMD's and DO's, that's not likely to change for a good long while still.

In a process that tends to involve subjective review of many qualified applicants, I'm not sure I would bank on "discriminatory practices" being ferreted out. The programs that exclude DOs ( I have worked at two) don't have a policy posted on a wall somewhere. They just take their pile of many more applicants than interview spots and only offer interview spots to MD applicants, rejecting plenty of MD and DO hopefuls alike. Hard to prove it's discrimination.

 

[user3]

Right now the ACGME exists to accredit GME for USMD's, with the merger it will become our accrediting body as well. I can't see how programs will be allowed to have systematic discriminatory practices against DO's once that happens, at least not while maintaining their ACGME accreditation.

I'm not saying the doors to BWH internal medicine are going to be flung open. But I expect there to be rules against having a no DO policy.

And there's still more spots than USMD's and DO's, that's not likely to change for a good long while still.

It looks like DO's will still be deemed independent applicants for the 2015-2016 NRMP match.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

KCU specifically or the DO route?

DO route

 

[DoctorKrieger]

DO route

Just nod your head and say 'yes' to the OMM stuff, do UFAP from day 1, and f*** all the haters. KCU will prepare you well.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I wonder since the DO and MD are merging Will DOs be recognized worldwide and more countries?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I wonder since the DO and MD are merging Will DOs be recognized worldwide and more countries?

Only the residencies are merging

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Only the residencies are merging

Yea, I miss worded that, I know there will still be a do degree and an md degree but I'm kinda curious if recognition of the do degree will expand

 

[bns140]

Hi,

What were your stats going in to DO med school? I feel extremely worried that my stats are not "good enough" for med school.

 

[Vespasian]

Hi,

What were your stats going in to DO med school? I feel extremely worried that my stats are not "good enough" for med school.

OP posted them already. Not to be a douche, but if you read the entire thread you might find that your question has already been answered.

3.2 cGPA, 2.7 sGPA (crazy right?)
MCAT was 30
Went to the University of Utah

 

[southALstudent]

I didn't read every single thread, so apologies if you are repeating yourself however I was curious as to why you chose DO medical school over MD? And, lastly, I heard from someone and I don't believe tis is true it was but that there are so specialities you can only do with MD over DO. Is this a rumor? Personally, I think I would like DO but more people see MD and think they are a better doctor than a DO. I hate that stigmatism! Congratulations and I hope you get some great news soon.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

but more people see MD and think they are a better doctor than a DO

They're called pre-meds

 

[southALstudent]

They're called pre-meds

Yes, and they are also called parents. A lot of people and not just premeds think they are a better doctor. I certainly am interested in both. I was just wondering if it was true that some specialities are not offered in osteopathic. I have an idea of what kind of medicine I would like to pursue but I would also like to make sure I can choose without feeling pressured into an allopathic because of the popular notion against the premeds you mentioned. Thanks!

 

[0dee]

Hey man, awesome thread, you've been very helpful with the information given. I am an AZ resident, and of course I would like to apply to both AZCOM and SOMA. I know 2 guys that go to AZCOM and I've been to that school and saw how their teaching style and their clinical rotations are. The more I do research on SOMA the more I get confused. Can you like summarize how SOMA's curriculum is different than other schools? Also, how much does the school push primary care on its students? Thanks.

 

[Vespasian]

... I heard from someone and I don't believe tis is true it was but that there are so specialities you can only do with MD over DO. Is this a rumor?

http://www.studentdoctor.net/osteopathic-premed-faq/?reload=1&r=1436396399150#Q7
" Osteopathic physicians occupy all medical specialties from pediatrics to neurosurgery. "

http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-dos/what-is-a-do/Pages/default.aspx
"Both DOs and MDs can choose to practice in any specialty of medicine—such as pediatrics, family medicine, psychiatry, surgery or ophthalmology."

http://www.aacom.org/become-a-doctor/about-om
"Osteopathic physicians can choose any specialty, prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, and practice medicine anywhere in the United States."

Also, I think most people have no idea whether a physician is a DO or MD or what it really means. If osteopathic medicine appeals to you- go for it. Don't make a decision on MD vs. DO based on prestige or the perceptions that your peers (or their parents) may have about those letters.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Yes, and they are also called parents. A lot of people and not just premeds think they are a better doctor. I certainly am interested in both. I was just wondering if it was true that some specialities are not offered in osteopathic. I have an idea of what kind of medicine I would like to pursue but I would also like to make sure I can choose without feeling pressured into an allopathic because of the popular notion against the premeds you mentioned. Thanks!

Parents just like the thought of the prestige historically associated with the MD degree going to their children. Most of them have no clue what DO school consists of and that it's identical to MD school except an extra class. They're comfortable in their ignorance, which is okay because it's not them going to med school. Ask them what makes a 'better doctor' and I doubt they'll have an answer that has anything to do with the minimal differences in MD and DO. They likely also don't realize that over half of DO grads get their residency training in MD programs. You can't let the ignorance of others affect your life decisions. If you do, you'll always be unhappy. FWIW, many parents feel DOs are better doctors--they are also wrong.

Regarding specialty limitations: Some residencies are ridiculously competitive, MD or DO (e.g., Derm, Ortho, ENT) and you'll need to separate yourself from other applicants to get those spots (not an easy task--you're up against a whole different level of competition in med school). AOA has spots in most every specialty that MDs have, an exception being Rad Onc and maybe a couple others. This doesn't really matter for you, since the MD and DO residencies are merging meaning literally no specialties are closed off to you (officially). Yes, DO discrimination among residency programs exists, but not everywhere. I suspect this will only decrease as time goes on. Maybe a good way to put it is this: A Harvard grad will have a much easier time matching a 'prestigious' residency spot than a Rosalind Franklin grad, and the RFU grad will have an easier time matching the same spot than a DO grad. All the specialties are open to everyone, but DOs have an uphill battle if they want a super competitive MD residency spot. If you don't want anything that competitive, it doesn't much matter.

TL;DR apply to schools you would like to attend, if you are accepted to multiple and one is DO and the other is MD, choose MD just because it makes life easier and you don't have to deal with AOA 'leadership.'

 

[StudyLater]

Let's not leave out the minute details, which can actually end up being extremely important in the long run.

A DO can (allegedly) go into into any specialty. True. But they also do get discriminated against (unnecessarily) for certain programs, and their degree holds minimal prestige when stacked up against their MD counterparts. I think a DO can shine and match neurosurgery, because they actually do, but I also think that, on average, a DO is at a slight disadvantage. Less prestige, and generally less opportunities than their MD counterparts.

But going DO vs. not getting in at all is a pretty easy choice. I'd be thrilled to get into a DO school this cycle.

 

[DrMaximus]

Parents just like the thought of the prestige historically associated with the MD degree going to their children. Most of them have no clue what DO school consists of and that it's identical to MD school except an extra class. They're comfortable in their ignorance, which is okay because it's not them going to med school. Ask them what makes a 'better doctor' and I doubt they'll have an answer that has anything to do with the minimal differences in MD and DO. They likely also don't realize that over half of DO grads get their residency training in MD programs. You can't let the ignorance of others affect your life decisions. If you do, you'll always be unhappy. FWIW, many parents feel DOs are better doctors--they are also wrong.

My mom was this way. It freaked her out so bad that I was going to a DO school because she had never heard of one and thought for sure that it was going to hurt me in the long run. However, now starting 4th year, she's swung the other way and thinks all DOs are collectively better than MDs... People will develop their opinions regardless of the actually facts, especially when it's their children we're talking about.

 

[Vespasian]

... their degree holds minimal prestige when stacked up against their MD counterparts. I think a DO can shine and match neurosurgery, because they actually do, but I also think that, on average, a DO is at a slight disadvantage. Less prestige, and generally less opportunities than their MD counterparts.

Minimal prestige? I guess I'm an oddball, if osteopathic medicine meshes with my personal tastes more than allopathic medicine and I have all of the same practice rights prestige is pretty much irrelevant.

The AOA's stats indicate 3 neurosurgery spots went unfilled in 2015. If you want that specialty you can get it.

I'd also like to note the following- "Osteopathic students may apply to allopathic residency programs, but allopathic students cannot at this time apply for an osteopathic residency. ". As of now, if an osteopathic student takes the COMLEX and USMLE they have more opportunities than their MD counterparts.

Do what makes you happy.

 

[StudyLater]

Minimal prestige? I guess I'm an oddball, if osteopathic medicine meshes with my personal tastes more than allopathic medicine and I have all of the same practice rights prestige is pretty much irrelevant.

Completely agreed. I'm talking about what the general population/certain PDs view as prestigious. PCOM isn't going to have some intrinsic institutional prestige over UCSD. At best with DO schools you'll just even out in prestige with MD counterparts - at worst you're from a recently-opened school in rural nowhere. Still, though, who cares? We get to practice medicine either way. We're in total agreement, there. I'm just saying you can't get top-20-MD-level prestige going to DO schools. Fact. But a lot of PDs ain't even gonna care. Fact.

The AOA's stats indicate 3 neurosurgery spots went unfilled in 2015. If you want that specialty you can get it.

I specifically said a DO could match, right? It's doable. But as with any applicant, everything has to be on the up and up. That candidate needs to be solid, and not even necessarily because he/she's a DO, but simply because, well, neurosurgery is neurosurgery.

I'd also like to note the following- "Osteopathic students may apply to allopathic residency programs, but allopathic students cannot at this time apply for an osteopathic residency. ". As of now, if an osteopathic student takes the COMLEX and USMLE they have more opportunities than their MD counterparts.

Sorry, this is where I really wasn't clear. I meant opportunities while in school. So things like research, rotations, etc. Not residency opportunities. Sorry about that.

 

[NYUyankeezfan]

Interesting.

My school sends us in groups of 10 to 11 different rotation sites. We do Core rotations, selectives, and electives throughout the year in whatever order we choose.

Yeah i'm having trouble finding hospitals outside of the LECOM system that accepts students for "core selectives"...it's frustrating!!!

 

[SLC]

In a process that tends to involve subjective review of many qualified applicants, I'm not sure I would bank on "discriminatory practices" being ferreted out. The programs that exclude DOs ( I have worked at two) don't have a policy posted on a wall somewhere. They just take their pile of many more applicants than interview spots and only offer interview spots to MD applicants, rejecting plenty of MD and DO hopefuls alike. Hard to prove it's discrimination.

Yes, I see your point and agree. However, some programs do actually have official "No DO" policies which are published publicly.

For example: https://www.med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/residency-faqs#f

10. Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

BTW, they do accept FMG's, they even tout that 6% of their current cohort are FMG's.

I fully expect this policy to be illegalized once the AOA-ACGME merger is in full effect. That doesn't mean that NYU will suddenly begin ranking and matching DO's, they can still maintain an "unofficial" no DO policy. But I'll be shocked if the ACGME doesn't make them remove that restriction officially.

 

[SLC]

Hey man, awesome thread, you've been very helpful with the information given. I am an AZ resident, and of course I would like to apply to both AZCOM and SOMA. I know 2 guys that go to AZCOM and I've been to that school and saw how their teaching style and their clinical rotations are. The more I do research on SOMA the more I get confused. Can you like summarize how SOMA's curriculum is different than other schools? Also, how much does the school push primary care on its students? Thanks.

Hey man, sorry I didn't see this post till now. Well I probably did, but I was in the middle of moving across country for residency when you posted so I probably meant to respond and forgot.

Either way...

SOMA's curriculum is different in one main sense. We are taught basic and clinical science together, in one unified block. Essentially we do not have separate courses in basic sciences and clinical sciences, rather we have blocks that surround organ systems and in each block we are taught all the basic and clinical sciences as they pertain to that particular organ system.

Another huge unique point of the curriculum is the use of the "clinical presentation curriculum" which I don't think any other US medical school uses. While we do learn in organ system blocks, our lectures are further subdivided into clinical presentations. The idea is that there are about 130 or so ways that a patient presents to a physician, the medical student can be taught to evaluate each presentation in a systematic fashion.

As an example, say we're in our neuro-block. We might spend a few days going through the "headache" presentation. It sounds silly at first but bear with me...

So on day one, a clinical lecturer presents us with a "scheme" which is essentially an algorithm for evaluating a patient who presents with a headache. The first lecture is spent overviewing how to navigate through the algorithm. Certain physical findings, lab tests, historical clues might lead the doctor down one pathway or away from another.

Subsequent lectures will cover the relevant physiology, anatomy, histology, pathology, embryology, biochemistry, pharmacology, etc etc etc that relate to headache.

It sounds really strange and unorthodox, but I actually really came to like the curriculum. Every single thing I learned was taught to me in context, which was huge for me in terms of being able to retain it.

Your second question, about how much SOMA pushes primary care on it's students. I'm not going to lie, Primary Care is a main focus of the school, SOMA takes it's mission seriously, and it's mission is to train doctors to work with the underserved specifically in Community Health Centers. That being said, I never felt pressured to go into Primary Care (I made the decision on my own), nor did I feel hindered in pursuing other interests because of the school.

I have numerous classmates who specialized. Things like Pathology, Emergency Medicine, General Surgery, Anesthesiology, OB Gyn, Psych, PM&R, Neurology etc were all represented in my graduating class. The school supports everyone in their ambitions. If you attended SOMA, you would not feel pressured to pursue primary care if that's not your thing, you should not feel hindered in going after some type of specialty either.

But I'm not going to promise you that SOMA won't open your eyes to how awesome Primary Care can be. Because believe me, it is awesome!

Don't hesitate to ask any other questions that come up. I'm happy to help where I can.

 

[Roxas]

@SLC

How's residency so far?

Any plans on a fellowship?

Is there a particular part of the country you want to practice in eventually?

 

[SLC]

@SLC

How's residency so far?

Any plans on a fellowship?

Is there a particular part of the country you want to practice in eventually?

Residency is amazing! Stressful at times, but amazing. So much better than med-school.

I have given some thought to an MCH or Palliative Care fellowship.

At the moment, my goal is to practice in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[619959]

what's MCH?