5 year grad

[Yadster101]

Hey guys,

I'm not at a DO school, but I know a few people that are. Some of them have failed exams, classes, etc. And I know a couple of students that are actually delaying graduation because of failures.

My question is, how difficult is it for a 5 year grad (likely w/ low COMLEX 1) to get into FM? Many of these people have told me that they want to do something like FM and I know FM is not competitive. If these people apply broadly and to all tiers of programs, are they highly likely to get into some FM program?

Just thinking that it would be difficult to go through all this just to not match in the end.

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[JustPlainBill]

As a board certified, FM attending, I find this a little insulting -- your implication that FM is the bottom of the barrel is ludicrous -- the broad base of knowledge required to perform at an even semi-competent level is very diverse. I've had more than one specialist tell me that they could not "keep all that spaghetti on one fork" -- As a Family Medicine physician, I determine what I want to manage/send to specialist and quite frankly, the vast majority of patients do not need specialists -- they just want to feel that their problem is so "overwhelming" so they can talk it up at the coffee shop/church --

How difficult? We look at failures like everyone else -- red flags but we also tend to be more realistic in how we view those mistakes -- the real question is did you learn from those mistakes and what action did you take to fix them.

One of the best FM docs I know if took the 6 year plan through medical school and I would feel comfortable having them care for any member of my family --- person knows when to call in help if needed but also has enough confidence not to waste money on specialists when not needed.

You need to really think through what you're asking and then do a basic search to see if it's been asked before ---

 

[Yadster101]

As a board certified, FM attending, I find this a little insulting -- your implication that FM is the bottom of the barrel is ludicrous -- the broad base of knowledge required to perform at an even semi-competent level is very diverse. I've had more than one specialist tell me that they could not "keep all that spaghetti on one fork" -- As a Family Medicine physician, I determine what I want to manage/send to specialist and quite frankly, the vast majority of patients do not need specialists -- they just want to feel that their problem is so "overwhelming" so they can talk it up at the coffee shop/church --

How difficult? We look at failures like everyone else -- red flags but we also tend to be more realistic in how we view those mistakes -- the real question is did you learn from those mistakes and what action did you take to fix them.

One of the best FM docs I know if took the 6 year plan through medical school and I would feel comfortable having them care for any member of my family --- person knows when to call in help if needed but also has enough confidence not to waste money on specialists when not needed.

You need to really think through what you're asking and then do a basic search to see if it's been asked before ---

Sorry, I did not mean any disrespect. I'm not saying that one does not need to be talented to go into FM. I've seen FM programs filled with students from prestigious medical schools. I believe that a great majority of FM docs are extremely talented individuals that chose FM because of their interest. I'm sure many FM docs could have gone into specialties if that had wanted to.

It just seems like some of these students I know really want to go into FM. As an FM you can work as a hospitalist, rural EM, or general primary care. Seems like a sweet gig, but these students likely will not be getting into Duke for FM. I'm just trying to do determine what their chances of matching into any FM residency is. Would a 450 COMLEX, that repeated a year, still have a 90% chance of matching into some FM program?

 

[Goro]

Plenty of our worst students have made it into FM programs. These kids have plenty of red flags.

This is not meant to be a slam, Bill...plenty of my best students also go into FM!

Sorry, I did not mean any disrespect. I'm not saying that one does not need to be talented to go into FM. I've seen FM programs filled with students from prestigious medical schools. I believe that a great majority of FM docs are extremely talented individuals that chose FM because of their interest. I'm sure many FM docs could have gone into specialties if that had wanted to.

It just seems like some of these students I know really want to go into FM. As an FM you can work as a hospitalist, rural EM, or general primary care. Seems like a sweet gig, but these students likely will not be getting into Duke for FM. I'm just trying to do determine what their chances of matching into any FM residency is. Would a 450 COMLEX, that repeated a year, still have a 90% chance of matching into some FM program?

 

[JustPlainBill]

Sorry, I did not mean any disrespect. I'm not saying that one does not need to be talented to go into FM. I've seen FM programs filled with students from prestigious medical schools. I believe that a great majority of FM docs are extremely talented individuals that chose FM because of their interest. I'm sure many FM docs could have gone into specialties if that had wanted to.

It just seems like some of these students I know really want to go into FM. As an FM you can work as a hospitalist, rural EM, or general primary care. Seems like a sweet gig, but these students likely will not be getting into Duke for FM. I'm just trying to do determine what their chances of matching into any FM residency is. Would a 450 COMLEX, that repeated a year, still have a 90% chance of matching into some FM program?

so let's pursue this line of questioning --- why do you care what "their" chances are? it's really none of your business, correct? You'll likely embarrass them if you talk about their COMLEX scores, repeat year, etc. So, my advice is to let it drop unless......

You're really asking for yourself and too embarrassed to admit you struggled a year and had to repeat --- and then wound up almost tanking the COMLEX ---

For your information --- I was a repeat year and had a 479 (IIRC) COMLEX, had 10 interviews in FM in Texas alone and matched into my first choice (turned out the first choice was atrocious) --- Don't know what my colleague's COMLEX score was and really don't care -- he matched into his first choice of program and is now board certified and in practice.

The biggest mistake I see people make is counting themselves out --- screw that, if I want something I work my tail off and don't take no for an answer ---- find an excuse to win.....don't quit....

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

so let's pursue this line of questioning --- why do you care what "their" chances are? it's really none of your business, correct? You'll likely embarrass them if you talk about their COMLEX scores, repeat year, etc. So, my advice is to let it drop unless......

You're really asking for yourself and too embarrassed to admit you struggled a year and had to repeat --- and then wound up almost tanking the COMLEX ---

For your information --- I was a repeat year and had a 479 (IIRC) COMLEX, had 10 interviews in FM in Texas alone and matched into my first choice (turned out the first choice was atrocious) --- Don't know what my colleague's COMLEX score was and really don't care -- he matched into his first choice of program and is now board certified and in practice.

The biggest mistake I see people make is counting themselves out --- screw that, if I want something I work my tail off and don't take no for an answer ---- find an excuse to win.....don't quit....

So what do mid tier ACGME FM programs mainly look at when a person is applying though?

 

[DopaDO]

Your friends will be fine. No doubt that a couple talented individuals go into family medicine, but let's not kid ourselves. It is probably the least competitive specialty in all of medicine. If you have a pulse and finish your schooling - you can find a spot somewhere... assuming you are a US grad.

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[JustPlainBill]

Your friends will be fine. No doubt that a couple talented individuals go into family medicine, but let's not kid ourselves. It is probably the least competitive specialty in all of medicine. If you have a pulse and finish your schooling - you can find a spot somewhere... assuming you are a US grad.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using SDN mobile app

Actually, for 2015, it was surgery (prelim) with 475 slots unfilled....

 

[IslandStyle808]

Actually, for 2015, it was surgery (prelim) with 475 slots unfilled....

True. Surgery prelims are the least desirable for PGY-1 year, and them having the most unfilled spots would be true even pre-2015.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I have a friend from school who actually was a 6 yr graduate and he got into ophthalmology and now works in Vegas. It's all about attitude.

 

[Giovanotto]

Never mind, finished reading thread. Goro said what I was thinking.

 

[JustPlainBill]

So what do mid tier ACGME FM programs mainly look at when a person is applying though?

I really have no idea as I'm not a PD or on faculty --

I can tell you that we looked at the whole package -- yes, failures raised a red flag but during our rank process we looked at everything including how the candidate interacted during the interview and pre-interview dinner. The big key here can be boiled down to this question if you really think it through ---

"Is this the kind of person that I want to be sitting in a call room with at 3AM?" -- meaning --

1) Can I trust them to make sound medical decisions at 3AM if I have to leave the call room and they get a call about a crashing patient/new admit/patient getting rowdy? Are they going to cowboy up or will they all if they don't know what to do? is their medical knowledge base reasonable?

2) Is their personality the kind of thing that will make me want to duct tape them to the chair in the call room?

3) How well would they integrate into the current PGY2/PGY1 classes when they're interns --

4) Are they intellectually curious or are they going to sit on their hands and leave the work for everyone else i.e. team players?

What I'm looking for is someone who is strong in these 4 areas, everything else -- procedures, delivering 10 babies during school, etc. is just gravy ---

But that's me --