7-Figure Anesthesia Salaries?

[SunnyCCM]

^^^^In reply to above as this thread is dated. East Coast, I have seen a few of these "Superstars." Makes me question their ethics, morals & overall quality of life outside the hospital. Most of us are still human beings caring for others. The RVU payouts for performance/incentive bonus structure is there plus base salary.

Yes, it can be done as of 1/15/15. Personally, I only know 3 that hit it.
Just not for me. SunnyCCM

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[BLADEMDA]

In my rural hospital, we have 2 CRNAs (both experienced, both really good, and know their limits). We are not critical access, but I don't know why (as we qualify, both for volume, and for location/distance). Neither one of these guys is anywhere near $225K.

I doubt they discuss their entire compensation package with you. A few CRNAS left my practice for rural Ohio. They were offered a base of $190K plus additional compensation for call and overtime.

CRNAs working in an ACT model can approach $180-$190 with overtime pretty easily. Hence, I don't see why a CRNA would take a solo, rural job if compensation was below $190K.

 

[Apollyon]

I doubt they discuss their entire compensation package with you. A few CRNAS left my practice for rural Ohio. They were offered a base of $190K plus additional compensation for call and overtime.

CRNAs working in an ACT model can approach $180-$190 with overtime pretty easily. Hence, I don't see why a CRNA would take a solo, rural job if compensation was below $190K.

Well, we're all employees, so I know the bennies package, but I hear you. Again, though, this is in a depressed, desolate area (the most remote part of PA, per the USGS). Both these guys have been here for approx 20 years or more.

 

[SunnyCCM]

Midwest is paying CRNA that much??
Had no idea, guess I just keep to myself in the unit. I am in an employed position as well working 7 on 7 off. Going to take a while before I even think about moonlighting. Need the first 2 days off to sleep/recharge. Learning so much on here.

 

[kazuma]

I know of one rural Ohio hospital that pays the two CRNA's on staff ~300k, but they are q2 call which isn't as bad as it seems as they very rarely get called in. Sounds similar to what your folks were offered.

I doubt they discuss their entire compensation package with you. A few CRNAS left my practice for rural Ohio. They were offered a base of $190K plus additional compensation for call and overtime.

CRNAs working in an ACT model can approach $180-$190 with overtime pretty easily. Hence, I don't see why a CRNA would take a solo, rural job if compensation was below $190K.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I know of one rural Ohio hospital that pays the two CRNA's on staff ~300k, but they are q2 call which isn't as bad as it seems as they very rarely get called in. Sounds similar to what your folks were offered.

http://www.crnajobs.com/media/31946/crna_salary_survey_2013.pdf

Take a look at the 2013 salary data. Rural CRNAs doing quite well.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

(There's no salary data in that link, Blade. Just fyi.)

Years ago one of my friends who is a fellow gas passer told me that his sister, a CRNA, was offered a job in Iowa (relocating for her husband) for $155/hr. No idea whether or not this was a 1099, part-time, etc. But that's a lot of cabbage if you're working 40 hrs/wk.

 

[BLADEMDA]

http://www.crnajobs.com/media/31946/crna_salary_survey_2013.pdf

Take a look at the 2013 salary data. Rural CRNAs doing quite well.

2013 CRNA average annual salary: $174,500

 

[caligas]

How do amc's get a higher unit rate from insurance companies?

 

[deleted171991]

How do amc's get a higher unit rate from insurance companies?

Bigger (national) corporations, stronger negotiating power than regular anesthesia groups.

 

[Ignatius J]

Someone banking over one million is either:

a.) In the land of milk and honey that no one else knows about and doing exclusively private payers with great surgeons and working pretty hard.

OR

b.) Making it on the backs of the newbies and lower levels and not willing to admit it that they have stacked the deck to their advantage. Fair or unfair, that's just the way it goes. I hope I never join a group with these "super partners" though.

Most of it will be the latter option, if not all.

 

[Mman]

Someone banking over one million is either:

a.) In the land of milk and honey that no one else knows about and doing exclusively private payers with great surgeons and working pretty hard.

OR

b.) Making it on the backs of the newbies and lower levels and not willing to admit it that they have stacked the deck to their advantage. Fair or unfair, that's just the way it goes. I hope I never join a group with these "super partners" though.

Most of it will be the latter option, if not all.

You are incorrect. In situation a or b you describe, it'd be a crime if those guys weren't making 1.5-2 per year.

 

[oldguy55]

Kazuma,

If your group has the following characteristics then I see good reason for optimism:

1. No group Subsidy ( a token subsidy less than $250K is probably fine)
2. Well established relationship with surgeons and staff (group is well-liked)
3. A long history at the hospital
4. Active with Boring Committees, medical staff
5. Provide excellent on-demand service to Surgeons, Gi, Cards, etc.
6. Medium to small sized city (less than 500,000 population is ideal)

If your group has all six of these items then Congrads on a winner.

One item to add along the lines of #4, particularly in a very small town: active in the hospital and the greater community.

Ours is a town of <20k (within an hour of a city of 1M). We believe visibility around town, especially when so many of our specialists live in the big city and commute, helps us. My wife is on a charity board. She just finished a term as chair of the board of the hospital foundation. I just finished two terms as Chief of Staff. We donate to a local charity, the one our CEO's wife helps run (we don't donate for that reason but it doesn't hurt). Every time the hospital needs help recruiting a new doc, you can count on us to be there.

That's not to say an AMC couldn't come in an pitch a good story to the CEO and we'd be out on our asses, it's a business after all, but I think it helps to be visible. Besides, with our crappy payer mix, nobody would want us!

 

[gaslife21]

Have a buddy in Iowa making well over 7 figures doing Pain. But he is working 14 hour days 6 days a week and just cranking out procedures. But he cleared 1.5 last year.

 

[Sirach38]

So with all this talk about AMC takeover, my question is, isn't every specialty vulnerable to this? What specialties are safe from large company takeovers. If you're a hospitalist group, you can be taken over by a large company also. Even surgery groups have the potential to be taken over by companies that provide hospitals with employed surgeons that are paid very little. Why are anesthesia groups so different from general surgery groups? Will all of medicine eventually be taken over by large companies or are some specialties completely protected from this?

 

[deleted171991]

For example, if one is a really good surgeon, one will have enough patients with good insurance to stay independent. That means automatically that one has to work 30-40% less for the same money.

As an internist, or as a hospital-based specialty, one has to be world-class to be in the same negotiating position. It's take it or leave it, every year less for more work. Unless you work in BFE.

But even medical specialties are better than hospital-based ones, for the simple reason that you have your own patients who might follow you.

 

[Baller MD]

For example, if you are a really good surgeon, you will have enough patients with good insurance to stay independent. That means automatically that one has to work 30-40% less for the same money.

As an internist, or as a hospital-based specialty, one has to be world-class to be in the same negotiating position. It's take it or leave. Unless you work in BFE.

But even medical specialties are better than hospital-based ones, for the simple reason that you have your own patients who might follow you.

Would you say that derm and psych are less likely to be taken over by corporate groups since they can function independent of a hospital?

 

[deleted171991]

Would you say that derm and psych are less likely to be taken over by corporate groups since they can function independent of a hospital?

Probably. Plus there aren't many of them, especially derm. Small number of physicians = small profits.

Although both are under attack from midlevels and from outside their specialty, I don't think general derm has more than 10 years to live as a specialty. You or your PCP will take a photo with the smartphone and get a diagnosis; if it goes away with the recommended cream, good, if not you'll see a derm NP. The procedural side has more future, especially the cosmetic side.

This is a very shallow view from somebody who's had nothing to do with derm since graduating med school.

Psych should not be far. There are a lot of non-medical-trained people who play shrink, at least for the people with minor disorders. And I would also guess that those are the real moneymakers, like in anesthesia. But since psych is a highly personal business, if you're really good at it, your patients won't even think about going to somebody else. It's the level of loyalty only a surgeon would command.

 

[Sirach38]

For example, if one is a really good surgeon, one will have enough patients with good insurance to stay independent. That means automatically that one has to work 30-40% less for the same money.

As an internist, or as a hospital-based specialty, one has to be world-class to be in the same negotiating position. It's take it or leave it, every year less for more work. Unless you work in BFE.

But even medical specialties are better than hospital-based ones, for the simple reason that you have your own patients who might follow you.

How safe are specialties like vascular surgery where all or most of your patients have medicare? Are these specialties ever bound to become employed or are they likely to remain in PP?

 

[Sirach38]

This is because with older patients, you'll never make enough to maintain a successful PP group and you're destined to become an employee?

 

[deleted171991]

This is because with older patients, you'll never make enough to maintain a successful PP group and you're destined to become an employee?

As reimbursements for smaller groups go down, the fixed expenses, also known as overhead (billing, malpractice, rent etc.) become a bigger and bigger slice. At one point it just doesn't make sense to struggle just to stay self-employed.

The government is slowly and systematically destroying private practice. Do you want to be their beggar your entire life? "Oh, please, don't decrease our Medicare reimbursements. Pleeeeeease, we beg you!"

 

[Sirach38]

Therefore only very large surgery groups will survive? How much more difficult is it to become partner as a surgeon than as an anesthesiologist?

 

[afob100]

[deleted]

 

[deleted171991]

Therefore only very large surgery groups will survive? How much more difficult is it to become partner as a surgeon than as an anesthesiologist?

I didn't mean small surgery groups. I meant non-surgical groups. Surgeons will survive in small groups for a long time. They shouldn't even have much overhead, since the number of their patients is small.

All of us would pay out of pocket for a good surgeon, even travel if necessary. The same doesn't apply to other specialties that much.

Best advice I can give is to read up on the specialty subforums, see what kind of problems they have. The same way we bitch about midlevels and AMCs, they will have their "favorites".

 

[Sirach38]

I didn't mean small surgery groups. I meant non-surgical groups. Surgeons will survive in small groups for a long time. They shouldn't even have much overhead, since the number of their patients is small.

All of us would pay out of pocket for a good surgeon, even travel if necessary. The same doesn't apply to other specialties that much.

It seems like this is only the case for certain surgery specialties. Can you generalize this for all surgeons? I mean sure, most would pay out of pocket for a good cosmetic plastic surgeon. But what about surgeons that serve the low income medicare/medicaid populations? Are these surgeons in the same boat or are they just as likely to become employees because their patients do not reimburse enough to maintain a successful private practice. I am not sure you can generalize this safe position to all surgeons. Maybe only plastic surgeons and some general surgeons.

 

[deleted171991]

It seems like this is only the case for certain surgery specialties. Can you generalize this for all surgeons? I mean sure, most would pay out of pocket for a good cosmetic plastic surgeon. But what about surgeons that serve the low income medicare/medicaid populations? Are these surgeons in the same boat or are they just as likely to become employees because their patients do not reimburse enough to maintain a successful private practice. I am not sure you can generalize this safe position to all surgeons. Maybe only plastic surgeons and some general surgeons.

As you have correctly guessed, one needs a minimal number of well-paying patients. If one is a very good surgeon, sooner or later one will have more work than one needs, or even desires.

The more important the surgical outcome and the younger the population, the higher the likelihood that the patient will pay out of pocket if needed. One just needs enough cash-paying or privately-insured patients.

I would guess that most surgical specialties qualify. Again, we are talking about good surgeons.

Or let me put it in a different way: in the future, as a good surgeon, one will have a much better life than as a great anesthesiologist.

 

[pjl]

In response to the AMC takeover of our specialty:
We are physicians. On the whole, we suck at business decisions, planning, and are uneducated in that arena. Not to mention that in order to make money, we need to be spending time doing tasks which are not related to business. You are meeting with administrators or outside parties who are able to spend a good 8 hours preparing for a meeting with you that is scheduled on your post call day after a AAA kept you awake and stressed out all night with no time to prepare for the meeting. The can plot, hold other meetings, consensus gather and sway opinions before you ever step in the room, all while you are busy doing your job.
We will almost always lose out to a guy who is equally smart, but has become as good at business as we have at medicine. This does not mean that we need to give up all hope of ever doing well financially, but we need to take a good look in the mirror. Embrace the fact that you are not a businessman. If you need help, obtain it. Even small groups are multimillion dollar companies, and you look at a typical group meeting for an hour or two once or twice a month to solve issues as they come up. Completely inadequate when compared to any other business.
It is amazing to me that so many groups do so well, and honestly I am surprised that it has taken so long for AMCs to become as prevalent as they are. It is a testament to all of our hard work and dedication that they are not fully in control. I feel that we need to re-evaluate our roles in leading groups and businesses in a manner which places us at a disadvantage from the moment we begin.
To me, it is odd that we hire employees (CRNAs) at a rate higher than many small company's CEOs earn and refuse to open the purse for help from those who have been trained to grow and maintain a business. We look down on them and insult groups which are led by them, as we sit and watch our livelihoods get swallowed up into ever larger competitors. We need to fight back on the playing field that they are on, not just on the merits of our professional relationships or clinical skills.
Even a perfect group is at some risk under the right circumstances, but you need to evaluate and discern how to ensure those circumstances never arise. I doubt many of us can do this well without help of some sort. I commend those who can succeed at this and hope that some day with a lot more experience I still have the option of trying. Thank you to those who started the private groups out there and have are run them well enough to allow them to survive. For those who do not understand the topic of a buyin to partnership and the value that those who lead these groups have accrued, thank you for not joining those groups and leaving more spots for a guy like me. I have found my little slice of heaven, paid my dues and now am an equal partner to the guy that founded the group. Zero regret for the lost income in the beginning.

 

[Mman]

Patients have no idea how to determine if a surgeon is good or not. They most likely base their decision off what the office looked like and if the surgeon sounded good when they talked to him. They aren't reviewing adjusted morbidity and mortality rates and average hospital LOS after procedures to make their decisions. At least 99.5% of them aren't. Their referral basis is that their friend had a procedure done and liked the surgeon.

 

[GA8314]

In response to the AMC takeover of our specialty:
We are physicians. On the whole, we suck at business decisions, planning, and are uneducated in that arena. Not to mention that in order to make money, we need to be spending time doing tasks which are not related to business. You are meeting with administrators or outside parties who are able to spend a good 8 hours preparing for a meeting with you that is scheduled on your post call day after a AAA kept you awake and stressed out all night with no time to prepare for the meeting. The can plot, hold other meetings, consensus gather and sway opinions before you ever step in the room, all while you are busy doing your job.
We will almost always lose out to a guy who is equally smart, but has become as good at business as we have at medicine. This does not mean that we need to give up all hope of ever doing well financially, but we need to take a good look in the mirror. Embrace the fact that you are not a businessman. If you need help, obtain it. Even small groups are multimillion dollar companies, and you look at a typical group meeting for an hour or two once or twice a month to solve issues as they come up. Completely inadequate when compared to any other business.
It is amazing to me that so many groups do so well, and honestly I am surprised that it has taken so long for AMCs to become as prevalent as they are. It is a testament to all of our hard work and dedication that they are not fully in control. I feel that we need to re-evaluate our roles in leading groups and businesses in a manner which places us at a disadvantage from the moment we begin.
To me, it is odd that we hire employees (CRNAs) at a rate higher than many small company's CEOs earn and refuse to open the purse for help from those who have been trained to grow and maintain a business. We look down on them and insult groups which are led by them, as we sit and watch our livelihoods get swallowed up into ever larger competitors. We need to fight back on the playing field that they are on, not just on the merits of our professional relationships or clinical skills.
Even a perfect group is at some risk under the right circumstances, but you need to evaluate and discern how to ensure those circumstances never arise. I doubt many of us can do this well without help of some sort. I commend those who can succeed at this and hope that some day with a lot more experience I still have the option of trying. Thank you to those who started the private groups out there and have are run them well enough to allow them to survive. For those who do not understand the topic of a buyin to partnership and the value that those who lead these groups have accrued, thank you for not joining those groups and leaving more spots for a guy like me. I have found my little slice of heaven, paid my dues and now am an equal partner to the guy that founded the group. Zero regret for the lost income in the beginning.

A simple practice manager with experience in healthcare administration, employed by the group can do much of this for you.............

 

[Ignatius J]

You are incorrect. In situation a or b you describe, it'd be a crime if those guys weren't making 1.5-2 per year.

We are a good-sized PA, and we have pretty dang good negotiated rates. Just doing some quick math based on what we would get reimbursed, the numbers don't add up to me. Unless you're putting in a ton of hours, doing exclusively private payers, and getting little vacation, if any. Even then, still a bit of a stretch.

 

[Ignatius J]

A simple practice manager with experience in healthcare administration, employed by the group can do much of this for you.............

Yup, let's not confuse AMCs with genuinely helping run a business. They are there to take revenue off of the backs of the employees that bring it in.

 

[GA8314]

Yup, let's not confuse AMCs with genuinely helping run a business. They are there to take revenue off of the backs of the employees that bring it in.

Indeed. I totally agree. A practice manager employed by the group, either full-time or as a frequent consultant on matters could accomplish a lot of the important business stuff for that group.....

 

[Mman]

We are a good-sized PA, and we have pretty dang good negotiated rates. Just doing some quick math based on what we would get reimbursed, the numbers don't add up to me. Unless you're putting in a ton of hours, doing exclusively private payers, and getting little vacation, if any. Even then, still a bit of a stretch.

If your insured rate is less than $100 a unit, you don't have "pretty good rates". In fact most of the big successful major practices I'm aware of get on the order of $120 a unit. If you do even 50% commercial at that rate and are reasonably busy, you can print money.

 

[Vandalia]

In West Virginia, hospitals must report to the state anyone paid over $55K/year.

Here is the 2013 report from Wheeling Hospital, a roughly 200 bed hospital with a Family Medicine residency. It is about 50 miles from Pittsburgh, so it is culturally closer to them than traditional West Virginia.

(Warning: These are decent sized PDF files.)

http://www.hcawv.org/vs5FileNet/Doc...ef1e3eb791b5db5affe37cd&DocId=003852736&Page=

Anesthesiologists are not employed by the hospital, although the CRNAs are.

This should give some real numbers for the debate.

In case you are interested in what the typical hospital employee earns, here are the numbers from WVU Medical Center. Physicians and other "providers" are paid out of a different corporate entity.

http://www.hcawv.org/vs5FileNet/Doc...ef1e3eb791b5db5affe37cd&DocId=003860071&Page=

 

[Ignatius J]

If your insured rate is less than $100 a unit, you don't have "pretty good rates". In fact most of the big successful major practices I'm aware of get on the order of $120 a unit. If you do even 50% commercial at that rate and are reasonably busy, you can print money.

Yeah, that doesn't add up. Can you give me a breakdown over how many units are being billed per day/week?

 

[caligas]

If your insured rate is less than $100 a unit, you don't have "pretty good rates". In fact most of the big successful major practices I'm aware of get on the order of $120 a unit. If you do even 50% commercial at that rate and are reasonably busy, you can print money.

4 rooms billing 60 units a day, 350 days a year at $120/unit would yield $10 million per year. Not bad work if you can get it.

 

[deleted162650]

Rates are highly variable by region. In CA rates over (or even close to) 100$/unit are essentially unheard of.

 

[Mman]

Yeah, that doesn't add up. Can you give me a breakdown over how many units are being billed per day/week?

Sorry. I'm too lazy to go dig up our actual numbers.

Let's pretend 14 units/case average. In a busy ACT practice you can do something like 2,000 cases per FTE per year without much trouble. So that's 28,000 units billed per FTE per year. Figure $100 a unit commercial, $15 a unit CMS, and some no pays for a blended average of about $30-50 per unit collected depending on your commercial percentage. At the low end you are collecting 28,000 x $30, or $840K a year. At the high end, it'd be more like $1.4M a year in collections. If you had higher rates and >50% commercial, you can rapidly approach $2M.

Now maybe you only average 12 units a case. Maybe you are inefficient and only do 1,500 cases per FTE per year. In that case at an average of $40/unit collected you still collect $720K a year.

 

[BLADEMDA]

In West Virginia, hospitals must report to the state anyone paid over $55K/year.

Here is the 2013 report from Wheeling Hospital, a roughly 200 bed hospital with a Family Medicine residency. It is about 50 miles from Pittsburgh, so it is culturally closer to them than traditional West Virginia.

(Warning: These are decent sized PDF files.)

http://www.hcawv.org/vs5FileNet/Doc...ef1e3eb791b5db5affe37cd&DocId=003852736&Page=

Anesthesiologists are not employed by the hospital, although the CRNAs are.

This should give some real numbers for the debate.

In case you are interested in what the typical hospital employee earns, here are the numbers from WVU Medical Center. Physicians and other "providers" are paid out of a different corporate entity.

http://www.hcawv.org/vs5FileNet/Doc...ef1e3eb791b5db5affe37cd&DocId=003860071&Page=

So these CRNAs are earning $170-$180 with the top CRNA around $209. That's a high pay scale for non solo CRNA gig.

 

[IlDestriero]

Is that salary or salary+benefits? I'm not a big fan of clicking random links.

 

[Ignatius J]

Sorry. I'm too lazy to go dig up our actual numbers.

Let's pretend 14 units/case average. In a busy ACT practice you can do something like 2,000 cases per FTE per year without much trouble. So that's 28,000 units billed per FTE per year. Figure $100 a unit commercial, $15 a unit CMS, and some no pays for a blended average of about $30-50 per unit collected depending on your commercial percentage. At the low end you are collecting 28,000 x $30, or $840K a year. At the high end, it'd be more like $1.4M a year in collections. If you had higher rates and >50% commercial, you can rapidly approach $2M.

Now maybe you only average 12 units a case. Maybe you are inefficient and only do 1,500 cases per FTE per year. In that case at an average of $40/unit collected you still collect $720K a year.

Ohhhh, I see. You're talking ACT model, which is a whole different beast. Number one, a lot of your revenue is going to your cRNA colleagues I would imagine. And there would be a big difference between billed/collected and take home pay for you, wouldn't there be?

 

[doctalaughs]

Although both are under attack from midlevels and from outside their specialty, I don't think general derm has more than 10 years to live as a specialty. You or your PCP will take a photo with the smartphone and get a diagnosis; if it goes away with the recommended cream, good, if not you'll see a derm NP. The procedural side has more future, especially the cosmetic side.

This is a very shallow view from somebody who's had nothing to do with derm since graduating med school.

This is pretty farfetched. Its like saying that automated anesthesia machine (forget the name) will replace anesthesiologists or that radiologists will be replaced by pattern recognition software. In any case, general derm is all outpatient and very patient-facing so luckily we have some control over midlevel and corporate encroachment. Its silly that patients are more aware of who their derm provider is than their anesthesia provider but its true. When my son had surgery I made damn sure he had a pediatric anesthesiologist not a crna.

 

[W19]

This is pretty farfetched. Its like saying that automated anesthesia machine (forget the name) will replace anesthesiologists or that radiologists will be replaced by pattern recognition software. In any case, general derm is all outpatient and very patient-facing so luckily we have some control over midlevel and corporate encroachment. Its silly that patients are more aware of who their derm provider is than their anesthesia provider but its true. When my son had surgery I made damn sure he had a pediatric anesthesiologist not a crna.

I did the same thing when my spouse was having surgery and someone told me that they labeled as an a$$ at that surgery center...

 

[deleted171991]

As I said before: in 3 years of residency, I have only heard about one patient who refused to be taken care of by a CRNA (he literally left). What did the administrators say to him? Good riddance. They couldn't care less. One swallow doesn't make a spring.

This is where the ASA failed us. Their stakeholders were so invested in the ACT model that they never fought to defend the solo anesthesia model. (This is like textbook "Rape of Emergency Medicine", by the way.)

 

[Mman]

Ohhhh, I see. You're talking ACT model, which is a whole different beast. Number one, a lot of your revenue is going to your cRNA colleagues I would imagine. And there would be a big difference between billed/collected and take home pay for you, wouldn't there be?

Obviously it's ACT model. You will always make more money in an ACT model than MD only. Do the CRNAs get paid? Sure. But that depends on the group. Some are employed by the hospital, not the group, so they don't pay them anything. Groups that employ the CRNAs also bill and collect for the CRNA services. And obviously there are expenses that cut into take home pay to varying degrees.

 

[Mman]

When my son had surgery I made damn sure he had a pediatric anesthesiologist not a crna.

Did your son have a pediatric anesthesiologist doing the case solo? Or was it a pediatric anesthesiologist supervising a CRNA? We provide the latter, not the former. And if a patient didn't agree with that I'd have to tell them that I'm not aware of any hospital within at least 500 miles that would do something different.

As a patient you can advocate for whatever you want for yourself, but are you willing to go a long ways away to find it?

 

[jl lin]

I sort of did the same thing. I knew the reality would probably translate to the anesthesiologist supervision. I interviewed the ologist and the CRNA. I made it clear what my concerns were. I was particularly concerned b/c I wanted to know the regular % of infant and pediatric cases they did per year. This wasn't a purely children's hospital. Another occasion when my other children had surgery, it was the anesthesiologist that spoke with me, administered pre-surgical sedation, and was there for the procedures and recovery.

I have to agree that it also seems silly to me that patients are more aware of their derm providers or dentists but are clueless about their anesthesia provider. Anesthesia is tricky, risky business--even though most of it goes pretty darn well. I'm not going to let just any surgeon operate on my children, family members, or me. Why should it be any different with the anesthesia provider?

 

[deleted50478]

Yup, let's not confuse AMCs with genuinely helping run a business. They are there to take revenue off of the backs of the employees that bring it in.

Let's also not pretend that AMCs make money off the backs of employees but PP partners make their own money- most of them just want to make money off your back too.

Everyone is like, "Those damn AMCs" while defending docs who prevent equal partnership for other docs. Those docs are no better.

 

[caligas]

Let's also not pretend that AMCs make money off the backs of employees but PP partners make their own money- most of them just want to make money off your back too.

Everyone is like, "Those damn AMCs" while defending docs who prevent equal partnership for other docs. Those docs are no better.

But for most partnership tracks the arrangement is temporary and you regain the difference in later years when you have non partners "below" you.

 

[criticalelement]

Let's also not pretend that AMCs make money off the backs of employees but PP partners make their own money- most of them just want to make money off your back too.

Everyone is like, "Those damn AMCs" while defending docs who prevent equal partnership for other docs. Those docs are no better.

Very astute. BEfore the AMCs there were private groups screwing docs left and right. It was rampant. The big management groups are just those little private groups on steroids. They were the most successful at screwing docs so they grew. For example, NAPA was at one hospital 20 years ago. They were formed through independent docs at Long Island Jewish in New Hyde Park, NY. IN fact when they were formed there were articles written about how bad it was for anesthesia. They had a residency that dissolved as a result of it. They have been screwing docs over for YEARS. Except now they dont have ot make you a partner. All management companies are evil. When you work for them you are making a deal with the devil. I cant even believe they are legal.