90% of future physicians not ready for private practice...

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drusso

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Medical students and residents thirst for practical, business-of-medicine education and mentorship. Training programs sorely lack resources or inclination to deliver it. Delivering a basic "mini-MBA" curriculum to residents via a distance or on-line format would be a great product.

Hospitals and large physician-employers know that by isolating young physicians from business/economic functions they are able to create inter-personal and professional dependencies for leverage and control. If you don't understand how your means of production creates value, then you can't be free.


90% of future physicians intend to avoid private practice

Written by Ellie Rizzo | December 16, 2014
athenahealth has released the results of its 9th annual Epocrates Future Physicians of American Survey, and America's future physicians say they have neither the desire nor the knowledge to participate in private practice.
Medical students today largely intend to avoid private practice, are unsatisfied with their business skills and are putting faith in technology to improve communication, according to the results of the survey, which polled 1,400 medical students on their training and on practices in the healthcare industry. According to the report:
  • About three-fourths (73 percent) plan to seek employment with a hospital or large group practice.
  • Just 10 percent planned to join private practice, down from 20 percent in 2008.
  • About two-thirds say they are dissatisfied with the education they have received in regard to practice management, ownership and coding and billing.
Future physicians also believe that teamwork, data sharing and communication are vital to achieving high-quality care, though most think these capabilities are nowhere near where they should be to facilitate this aim.

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"Future physicians also believe that teamwork, data sharing and communication are vital to achieving high-quality care, though most think these capabilities are nowhere near where they should be to facilitate this aim."

translated: "future "providers" also believe that subordination to bureaucrats/hospital administrators, non-ownership of their own data, and invasion into their practices by government and EMRs are vital to achieving algorithmic medical care, though most think these issues are so important and so vital to medicine that they could not possibly complete fabrications designed to control their careers and keep them out of private practice."
 
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Healthcare Transformation Undermines The Future of Private Practice
Physicians choose salaried employment in reaction to rising costs and complexity
Pam Kahl

Looking to retire after 31 years in private practice, Dr. Chuck Hoffman, a primary care physician with a thriving 5,000 patient internal medicine clinic in Baker City, Oregon began thinking about next steps. Not able to find a provider interested in taking over the practice, Hoffman ended up selling to Saint Alphonsus Health System in 2012. His scenario is an example of a significant trend in the healthcare market –a rapidly declining number of private practitioners as a result of retirement and/or choosing to opt-out to become employees of hospitals and/or large multi-specialty practice groups.

According to the 2013 State Physician Workforce Databook published by the Association of American Medical Colleges, there were 817,850 physicians actively practicing in the United States as of December 2012. Respondents from an AMA survey released during the same time period indicated 53.2% owned their own practice (18.8% solo practitioners), 60% of whom were 55+ years old. In 2012, there were 8,185 physicians employed in Oregon, according to the Oregon Employment Department.

Recent surveys show the number of physicians employed by hospital systems grew by 34% between 2000 and 2010. A survey conducted by Jackson Healthcare showed the number of hospital-employed physicians increased from 20-26% between 2012 and 2013 alone.

Larry Mullins, CEO of Samaritan Health System, says he’s hired more than 100 providers to staff its five hospitals and medical clinics in a permanent or temporary capacity, representing a 25% increase from five years ago. Similarly Oregon Health & Science University’s physician staff has grown to 1,061 representing a 13% increase since 2010.

The shift is being driven by three key factors and is a direct result of the Affordable Care Act and Oregon’s healthcare transformation initiative.

First, the growing complexity, higher costs and stagnant reimbursement rates make running a private practice more financially prohibitive. When Hoffman opened his practice in 1981, the office staff consisted of two physicians (Hoffman and his business partner), a nurse and an office manager. When he sold the practice, running the business required three front-office staffers, two billing representatives, three medical assistants and one RN representing an annual payroll of more than $250,000 with an additional $200K to cover provider salaries.

Oregon’s healthcare transformation requirement that all physicians implement an electronic health record system would have cost Hoffman an additional $35K out-of-pocket to install and almost $10K annually in hardware and software maintenance fees. Moribund reimbursement rates mean that revenue for seeing patients remains flat while cost of doing business has increased dramatically.

“Doctors have been pretty much frozen in Medicare rates since 1997,” laments Dr. Bud Pierce, a principal at the Hematology Oncology of Salem Clinic.

Second, the new Triple Aim model calls for tighter care coordination between physical, behavioral and dental healthcare providers, lower costs and greater focus on preventative care. The move to a more vertical approach and maximizing economies of scale favors larger health system employers such as multi-specialty practice groups and hospitals.

For hospitals, in particular, increasing the number of on-staff primary care practitioners promises to help make up for lost revenue as a result of cost-saving efficiencies and lower hospitalization rates. Of the 75-80 new physicians hired last year, Mullins said, the number of primary care providers vs. specialists represented a 3:1 ratio.

“As we make this transformation into population health, there’s less reliance on revenue from the hospital side and more emphasis on primary care side,” he notes.

And third, lifestyle choices among newly minted physicians and those who would prefer to focus on medicine instead of running a business contribute to the trend toward salaried employment. According to a recent Merritt Hawkins study, 61% of residents plan to pursue fully employed positions.

“Doctors are saying, I went into this profession to practice medicine, and now I’m having to be a contracting agent, a HR person, an IT person and a marketing person.

It’s not that they can’t do it. It’s just that they’re choosing not to do it,” says Dr. Mark O’Halleran, vice president of strategic outreach at Oregon Health & Science University.

Predictable hours and income, less time spent on administrative processes and lower risk are just some of the perceived benefits. Larger health system employers can often offer more lucrative salaries and loan repayment incentives, giving them the edge when it comes to recruiting the best and the brightest.

“Even with the income tax and federal loan repayment incentives for rural health practitioners, it was difficult for me to recruit new providers. I can’t think of a single time I didn’t have to pay a physician more than I was making,” says Hoffman.

For patients, larger multi-specialty practices and/or hospital-based care often translate to easier access to both primary and specialty healthcare services and can increase collaboration between doctors. As Gerry Ewing, director of corporate communications at Tuality Healthcare explains, “It’s easier to walk down the hall.”

But several doctors warn that there are significant downsides that shouldn’t be ignored. Larger organizations tend to be slow to innovate and are prone to bureaucracy and over-emphasis on quantitative “productivity” measurement that maximizes revenue.

Dr. Josh Reagan, a family physician, who worked in private practice and for a local federally qualified health center before joining Providence Medical Group notes, “There is significant potential for disconnect between large clinics and hospital-owned groups and primary care physicians. Top-down decision makers need to have an appreciation for not just the size of the patient panel, but the amount of time it takes to provide adequate care.”

Pam can be reached at [email protected].

Jan 7 2015
 
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That's bloody awful. Physicians are unwilling to invest in their profession.

thats the wrong way to look at it. new physicians are unwilling to take on the risk. it is way more difficult now than it used to be.... and way more risky. no doubt, this is a direct result of new beaurocratic rules and the ACA. hard to blame the docs just graduating residency at this point
 
That's bloody awful. Physicians are unwilling to invest in their profession.
You have to admit, they're making the system so bloody complex and intimidating, it's tough for a lot of new grads to risk making that leap. I still think the way to go is small-med sized private doctor owned groups of 10-50 docs so you can have some independence from hospital bean counters, yet be large enough to hire out the complexity and not have to run every day to day detail if you don't want. That's where I'm at right now and it seems to be the best of both worlds at the moment. I hope it remains sustainable.
 
i did 2 residencies, and i can quantify the amount of information that was provided on setting up one's own private practice in both residencies to be equivalent.... to almost nil both times. the first residency was in the late 80s. (i did have a 30 min lecture on billing in fellowship.)

in my graduating eternal medicine class, i seem to remember just 1 out of 20 residents who set up their own practice - the others did fellowship or joined a group.

im willing to bet there has been minimal change in medical education with regards to the business side of things. what has changed, rather than joining a private practice or small group practice, and learning the ropes, now grads are more likely to join a hospital based practice. which really were not in existence before 2000, except medicaid clinics or academia. this in itself explains the tremendous increase in hospital based physicians.
 
That's bloody awful. Physicians are unwilling to invest in their profession.
It's hard to imagine buying or starting a private practice when you're 300-400k in debt. Working for a group until loans are paid and you've got some capital is pretty much essential. They aren't unwilling, they're financially unable.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the students at all. I agree that the system and regulatory environment we have completely discourages setting up an independent practice.
 
And don't forget to mention the HUGE number of private practice groups which prey on new grads and take huge advantage of the lack of business training. From the horror stories I've heard about (and experienced), relatively new grads have been screwed a LOT harder by private practices than hospitals.

I went the PP route right out of fellowship. There is no way in hell that I would ever go back to any form of PP unless I personally start it. Not a viable option now with huge student debt, obamacare, etc.
 
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And don't forget to mention the HUGE number of private practice groups which prey on new grads and take huge advantage of the lack of business training. From the horror stories I've heard about (and experienced), relatively new grads have been screwed a LOT harder by private practices than hospitals.

I went the PP route right out of fellowship. There is no way in hell that I would ever go back to any form of PP unless I personally start it. Not a viable option now with huge student debt, obamacare, etc.

Just wait to you realize being employed for the Hospital is not all it is cracked up to be.
I too got into a bad position right out of training( which was my own fault in not doing my due diligence.) But I learned and moved on, there is no way in Hell I would ever work
for those bean counters and unscrupulous CEO's.
 
Just wait to you realize being employed for the Hospital is not all it is cracked up to be.
I too got into a bad position right out of training( which was my own fault in not doing my due diligence.) But I learned and moved on, there is no way in Hell I would ever work
for those bean counters and unscrupulous CEO's.

The doctors I know who started employment at hospitals 2 and 3 years ago are now faced with big pay cuts as they are told they are" not performing to their pay grade"
 
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The doctors I know who started employment at hospitals 2 and 3 years ago are now faced with big pay cuts as they are told they are" not performing to their pay grade"
Yep, I know someone that is going to happen to in the near future as well
 
Just wait to you realize being employed for the Hospital is not all it is cracked up to be.
I too got into a bad position right out of training( which was my own fault in not doing my due diligence.) But I learned and moved on, there is no way in Hell I would ever work for those bean counters and unscrupulous CEO's.

All of this underscores the POWER of information asymetry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

It doesn't matter if you're going to work for a hospital or a private practice or for yourself...as Professor Harold Hill sang in the Music Man, "You gotta know the territory..." Increasingly, young physicians are forced into bad arrangements and bad deals because of information asymmetry...the only way that MD/DO's will return to being the real leaders in health care is by overcoming the business-of-medicine infomation divide (see related thread on MOC is a scam).

Without doing so, physicians will just continue to be morph into glorified wage workers...
 
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I'm not saying that being employed by a hospital is an awesome option. My point was that new grads should be careful with PP groups out there because they can be more evil than even the dreaded hospitals. In the region I am in, if you join any one of the EIGHT PP groups, you have a 100% certainty of getting f****d. The only PP I would ever trust again would be my own.
 
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Just wait to you realize being employed for the Hospital is not all it is cracked up to be.
I too got into a bad position right out of training( which was my own fault in not doing my due diligence.) But I learned and moved on, there is no way in Hell I would ever work
for those bean counters and unscrupulous CEO's.
They're worse in many instances.
 
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All of this underscores the POWER of information asymetry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

It doesn't matter if you're going to work for a hospital or a private practice or for yourself...as Professor Harold Hill sang in the Music Man, "You gotta know the territory..." Increasingly, young physicians are forced into bad arrangements and bad deals because of information asymmetry...the only way that MD/DO's will return to being the real leaders in health care is by overcoming the business-of-medicine infomation divide (see related thread on MOC is a scam).

Without doing so, physicians will just continue to be morph into glorified wage workers...
Some entire specialties are already there: Emergency Medicine, for example.
 
All of this underscores the POWER of information asymetry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

It doesn't matter if you're going to work for a hospital or a private practice or for yourself...as Professor Harold Hill sang in the Music Man, "You gotta know the territory..." Increasingly, young physicians are forced into bad arrangements and bad deals because of information asymmetry...the only way that MD/DO's will return to being the real leaders in health care is by overcoming the business-of-medicine infomation divide (see related thread on MOC is a scam).

Without doing so, physicians will just continue to be morph into glorified wage workers...

drusso, I'm really hoping you get involved in our specialty on a national leadership level, going to Washington and fighting for us, etc. Please consider it.
 
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The doctors I know who started employment at hospitals 2 and 3 years ago are now faced with big pay cuts as they are told they are" not performing to their pay grade"
and we also have stories right on this board of at least 2 individuals who joined private/group practice that have been screwed even worse.

whatever job one takes, to use drrusso's term of information asymmetry, you cant blindly go into any employed position without doing research. at the very least, one needs to be able to determine they are worth, be able to position themselves to be of irrefutable value consistent with this amount, and be able to project and convince the money holders of that value, whether that is the owners of the group practice or hospital admin.

or go solo PP (but run the risk of bankruptcy....)
 
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The term "getting screwed" keeps on popping up. I'm interested in hearing what others think amounts to getting screwed in private practice. I'm a relatively new grad and need more information. I work in a fee for service model, no guaranteed base, % of collections goes to me. Procedures mostly in-office.
 
Of course residency programs will not teach private practice anything since the professors are all university employees and many have never worked in private practice.
 
and we also have stories right on this board of at least 2 individuals who joined private/group practice that have been screwed even worse.

whatever job one takes, to use drrusso's term of information asymmetry, you cant blindly go into any employed position without doing research. at the very least, one needs to be able to determine they are worth, be able to position themselves to be of irrefutable value consistent with this amount, and be able to project and convince the money holders of that value, whether that is the owners of the group practice or hospital admin.

or go solo PP (but run the risk of bankruptcy....)
I don't know of any pp physicians going bankrupt... they either advertise, merge, or downgrade generate more revenue, or they sell out to a ACO. either way majority of physicians are not going bankrupt. they may feel like they are bankrupt.... did you see the projected IPM fee schedule for 2016... we got a 1-2% raise, thanks to bipartisanship and doc fix. thanks republican senate and house...
 
if you use the browse
I don't know of any pp physicians going bankrupt... they either advertise, merge, or downgrade generate more revenue, or they sell out to a ACO. either way majority of physicians are not going bankrupt. they may feel like they are bankrupt.... did you see the projected IPM fee schedule for 2016... we got a 1-2% raise, thanks to bipartisanship and doc fix. thanks republican senate and house...
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/

http://www.naturalnews.com/040416_medical_bankruptcy_obamacare_doctors.html

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/smallbusiness/doctors-bankruptcy/index.html

group practice:
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/09/hampden_county_physician_assoc_1.html

and of note from a slightly different perspective:
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/04/icd10-accelerate-demise-private-practice.html
 
lots of generic verbiage about doctors going bankrupt, but what is the true statistic or percentage of physicians truly filing for bankruptcy? I don't know, and the articles clearly don't define it. there are general statements like ' we see a spike in filings', what does that mean exactly. clearly there may be a spike, but if the overall baseline rate is low, then a small change is more dramatized. so what percentage of doctor file for bankruptcy? its low....they merge and cut their losses.
 
Before Starting a New Medical Practice Ask Yourself These 10 Questions

For those considering solo independent practice:

  1. Can I go without any income from a new practice for 3-6 months?
  2. Do I have another income stream or can I continue to work part-time at the hospital or at an urgent care while I’m building my practice?
  3. Can I envision starting my practice by myself (no receptionist or medical assistant)?
  4. Do I have an existing patient base which will be interested in joining my practice?
  5. Is the community in which I want to work underserved or over-served in my specialty?
  6. Do I have a cash component to my practice that can help defray expenses while I am building my practice?
  7. Will I be able to count on unpaid help from my spouse, family or friends to get things started?
  8. Will I be satisfied to start my practice by leasing space from another practice, or at a less-prestigious location that might not be my forever-location?
  9. Am I willing to shop for gently used and refurbished furniture and equipment for my medical practice?
  10. Will I be satisfied to use one of the free EHRs, even if it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles?
  11. Bonus Question: Do I have saved or can I borrow $20K to cover my expenses for the first 3-6 months?
Starting a new medical practice is not easy. No one should tell you that it is.

But, if you want to put in the work, make the decisions, and ultimately, practice the way you want to, then a solo practice may be a fit for you.

You may have to call your friends and family together to help you, you may have to work someplace else while you’re building your practice, but the good news is, you are the boss of you.

MPW
(Independent Practice is Returning!)
 
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. did you see the projected IPM fee schedule for 2016... we got a 1-2% raise, thanks to bipartisanship and doc fix. thanks republican senate and house...
I saw that. Great news. I hope it sticks when final.
 
duc: read this....http://medicaleconomics.modernmedic...ysicians/are-bankruptcies-physician-practices

neutral site, in summary: But without any solid historical data to back it up, the "physician-practice-bankruptcy-is-accelerating" idea is only a theory that may or may not have any basis in reality.
I've yet to see or hear of anyone actually going bankrupt, in PP Pain, anyways. I've heard of a bunch of guys that used to make $1,000,000/year get scared because they only can make $500,000/year now, so they panic and sell out to a hospital system. But bankrupt? It's Big Foot. Oft feared, but rarely reported by any reliable source. Ultimately, I can only speak for me. I'm in private practice. 25 physician multi specialty group (only Pain MD) and salary is increasing. Employed jobs may be great. I can't say they're not. But private practice is completely viable. If you had talked to me 2 years ago, I couldn't have been confident in that. The 2014 Medicare cuts were scary, but it looks like we've hit a sustainable bottom, for the moment anyways (see Asipp.org "fee schedules" and 2016 slight fee increases, and no substantial decreases). But for the moment, things look cautiously promising, for 2016.

Regardless, I'm just happy I'm above ground, and able to make a living, save for retirement and my kids college, while not having to take call, work after 5pm, or work a weekend or holiday ever again. I don't need to see $1mil/year.
 
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i think the days any of us will see 1mil/year are gone - without running a scam mill...
i think the days of seeing 500k/year are close to being gone except for the hardest working among us (or those who have some ancillaries, or those who signed little sweetheart deals w/ hospitals)
my prediction is that we will see more 350k/year for the avg pain doc in the next 5 years.
 
350K/year takehome or is that before expenses? 35OK before expenses = bankrupt in my opinion. I am thinking of being foolish enough to start a solo practice. i need a pep talk. Have a dead end academic job for 330K. Can anyone give me advice if I should take the leap? Desperate for guidance
 
350K/year takehome or is that before expenses? 35OK before expenses = bankrupt in my opinion. I am thinking of being foolish enough to start a solo practice. i need a pep talk. Have a dead end academic job for 330K. Can anyone give me advice if I should take the leap? Desperate for guidance
330k for academics sounds pretty tasty to me. 350k would be an established private practice, after business expenses, before personal income tax. So after income tax and after losing the perks of academic employment, you will probably take a loss in private practice. Unless of course you are a businessman and will be offering other services/products that are not in the stranglehold of the giant octopus that is our government/insurance complex.
 
I was referring to take home.
 
i think the days any of us will see 1mil/year are gone - .
I've never seen near that, in my career. Anyone who thought that was going to last was wrong obviously.
 
Man I remember the good ole days when I was bringing in 2-3 mil a year. Ahhhh those were the days :wacky:
 
i need a pep talk. Have a dead end academic job for 330K. Can anyone give me advice if I should take the leap? Desperate for guidance

suck it up
plenty of people better than you are willing to accept that
have a nice day :)
 
I've yet to see or hear of anyone actually going bankrupt, in PP Pain, anyways. I've heard of a bunch of guys that used to make $1,000,000/year get scared because they only can make $500,000/year now, so they panic and sell out to a hospital system. But bankrupt? It's Big Foot. Oft feared, but rarely reported by any reliable source. Ultimately, I can only speak for me. I'm in private practice. 25 physician multi specialty group (only Pain MD) and salary is increasing. Employed jobs may be great. I can't say they're not. But private practice is completely viable. If you had talked to me 2 years ago, I couldn't have been confident in that. The 2014 Medicare cuts were scary, but it looks like we've hit a sustainable bottom, for the moment anyways (see Asipp.org "fee schedules" and 2016 slight fee increases, and no substantial decreases). But for the moment, things look cautiously promising, for 2016.

Regardless, I'm just happy I'm above ground, and able to make a living, save for retirement and my kids college, while not having to take call, work after 5pm, or work a weekend or holiday ever again. I don't need to see $1mil/year.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but that 2014 hammer that dropped... well in July ASIPP was also predicting slight increases or status quo. It was like November when CMS went nuts and brought down the ax.
 
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