A bit confused

[treal]

Hey there,
I guess I have a bit of background and then some questions.
I am 26 years old and finishing up my BA in Psychology.
I have taken the GRE once (V: 162 Q: 163 AW:4.5) but I am scheduled to take it again in a few weeks.
My GPA at my current institution is 3.8, but cumulatively (with a horrendous first 2 years at community college 3.24, but I plan on earning As for the duration of my enrollment).
I work at a suicide hotline and am in a research lab where we research motivation and emotion in people with schizophrenia.
I would like a Clinical PsyD and I am looking into the programs at PGSP-Stanford and Rutgers.
Doing a bit of reading here I see a favoritism towards Pepperdine over PGSP (based on funding, but those posts were from 2011), but Pepperdine requires you to have your MA before applying to the PsyD program.
I would eventually like to have a child or two and I feel like if I pursue a MA before a doctorate, the window where my eggs are viable will disappear before I'm finished.
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I am curious about my chances, and also about recommendations..
I would like to work with inmates who have just been released and need help adjusting to the world.
I also would like to work with high achieving girls who have been deemed "bad" and act out because they feel invisible.
I know these are two completely opposite populations, so I am interested in any feedback you might have about all of this.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. I hope I don't seem unprofessional or directionless.

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[bmedclinic]

I cant speak to the viability of your eggs or either of those two programs... but I can tell you something about applying.. I'd apply to way more than 2 programs. If I had to do it again, I'd be looking at 10+ programs to apply to. I also wouldn't worry about divergent interests- we all have multiple interests that often dont neatly fit together.

Also, this might seem like bad advice on the surface, but it's actually an amazing resource: use the search function, and look in the WAMC (what are my chances) thread. It's been going for years, so you literally can get a decent idea of what scores/options are available at certain schools. You can even see other posters advising other students on what scores should, in theory, be competitive certain places. Oftentimes, those posters applied to those same programs so they really know.

 

[WisNeuro]

Aren't both of those programs hella expensive? Like, way into 6 figures expensive?

 

[deleted343839]

Have you ruled out clinical or counseling PhD programs and, if so, why? People who would like a practice-oriented career are well justified in looking into reputable PsyD programs, but I've never understood the decision to rule out a PhD from the outset.

 

[clausewitz2]

Fertility on average does not start to decline appreciably until 35 and even then you do not see very big decrements until around 40. If you can finish in less than a decade it will not physically prevent you from having children.

 

[CApsych]

I started the Consortium at 26 and my eggs still feel pretty viable I had a kid at 29, but am in the vast minority-most of my colleagues will wait to have children until after postdoc when we are in our early 30s and we will still be having kids on the young side (for northern CA at least).
As for chances, I know people who have gotten into PGSP right out of undergrad, but more and more they've taken a year inbetween to get more experience in clinical research or something similar. That might be something to consider. Good luck!

 

[treal]

Aren't both of those programs hella expensive? Like, way into 6 figures expensive?

expense is not an issue, i am extremely lucky in that respect...
I have been through some pretty rough times but am now in a really great situation...

 

[treal]

Have you ruled out clinical or counseling PhD programs and, if so, why? People who would like a practice-oriented career are well justified in looking into reputable PsyD programs, but I've never understood the decision to rule out a PhD from the outset.

I would like to specialize in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. The reason I want Rutgers so badly is that their clinic specializes in it. The only school in California that specializes in it is Cal Lutheran and they aren't even APA accredited.

 

[treal]

I cant speak to the viability of your eggs or either of those two programs... but I can tell you something about applying.. I'd apply to way more than 2 programs. If I had to do it again, I'd be looking at 10+ programs to apply to. I also wouldn't worry about divergent interests- we all have multiple interests that often dont neatly fit together.

Also, this might seem like bad advice on the surface, but it's actually an amazing resource: use the search function, and look in the WAMC (what are my chances) thread. It's been going for years, so you literally can get a decent idea of what scores/options are available at certain schools. You can even see other posters advising other students on what scores should, in theory, be competitive certain places. Oftentimes, those posters applied to those same programs so they really know.

Thank you!!! I hate to be a bother but is there any way you can guide me on how to search within a forum? I don't know how to do that just yet, and it is hard to weed through the pages of WAMC to find what I am looking for

 

[treal]

Have you ruled out clinical or counseling PhD programs and, if so, why? People who would like a practice-oriented career are well justified in looking into reputable PsyD programs, but I've never understood the decision to rule out a PhD from the outset.

to add onto my reply, my advisor recently asked me about why I have ruled out the PhD route, and the main reason is time. I would have to probably take a couple years off to get published and work more in the lab, and my heart is really in practicing forever, not teaching...
Can you elaborate on why I should consider PhD, if I haven't addressed further reasons in my responses?

 

[clinpsyc87]

Rutgers explicitly states their psyd is not for training practitioners. Or used to long ago and far away when I was looking. It's also more competitive than most phds, especially counseling psyc phd

 

[treal]

Rutgers explicitly states their psyd is not for training practitioners. Or used to long ago and far away when I was looking. It's also more competitive than most phds, especially counseling psyc phd

so currently the program states this "Sensitive to the changing health care delivery system, GSAPP's goal is to produce graduates who will assume leadership roles in improving the development and delivery of mental health services, both in managed care and non managed care settings."
I assume I'd have to practice at some point.... especially post doc? I feel like such an idiot when it comes to this stuff. The information I have is clearly limited.. But program implementation is something I am very much interested in.. Perhaps policy change too.
Currently there is no system to help former inmates adjust. I am extremely passionate about the two populations I mentioned above.

 

[deleted343839]

I would like to specialize in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. The reason I want Rutgers so badly is that their clinic specializes in it. The only school in California that specializes in it is Cal Lutheran and they aren't even APA accredited.

I understand your desire to attend a school that specializes in the type of treatment you'd like to provide yourself. However, I would encourage you to take a broader view of your training. DBT falls under the umbrella of cognitive behavioral therapies, and therefore training in the nuts and bolts of those behavioral therapies will set you up well to pursue more specialized training in specific therapies (DBT, ACT, the variants of CBT for specific disorders, etc.). I know DBT practitioners who were first trained at the internship or postdoc level; this is not uncommon.

Re: PsyD v. PhD, research experience and your ability to conduct and consume research will be valued at any reputable program. There is no harm in applying to "balanced" PhD programs this year.

 

[cara susanna]

I would like to specialize in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. The reason I want Rutgers so badly is that their clinic specializes in it. The only school in California that specializes in it is Cal Lutheran and they aren't even APA accredited.

I'm a bit confused that you want to specialize in DBT given the populations that you said you want to work with in your first post. DBT is primarily for people with borderline personality disorder and suicidal/self-harm behavior.

 

[treal]

I'm a bit confused that you want to specialize in DBT given the populations that you said you want to work with in your first post. DBT is primarily for people with borderline personality disorder and suicidal/self-harm behavior.

DBT is also being used to treat people with PTSD but I think its applications and its guiding principles can be used to treat a much wider population. From my own experience, I think anyone could benefit from DBT. Especially the distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness modules.

 

[treal]

I understand your desire to attend a school that specializes in the type of treatment you'd like to provide yourself. However, I would encourage you to take a broader view of your training. DBT falls under the umbrella of cognitive behavioral therapies, and therefore training in the nuts and bolts of those behavioral therapies will set you up well to pursue more specialized training in specific therapies (DBT, ACT, the variants of CBT for specific disorders, etc.). I know DBT practitioners who were first trained at the internship or postdoc level; this is not uncommon.

Re: PsyD v. PhD, research experience and your ability to conduct and consume research will be valued at any reputable program. There is no harm in applying to "balanced" PhD programs this year.

Thank you for your responses and advice!!

 

[erg923]

DBT is also being used to treat people with PTSD but I think its applications and its guiding principles can be used to treat a much wider population. From my own experience, I think anyone could benefit from DBT. Especially the distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness modules.

Anyone could benefit from many things. That doesnt make it the treatment of choice or clinically necessary. Certain aspects of DBT, such as grounding of course can be effective in treatment of PTSD, but I would hope we arent suggesting that this should be the first line treatment for PTSD.

 

[treal]

Anyone could benefit from many things. That doesnt make it the treatment of choice or clinically necessary. Certain aspects of DBT, such as grounding of course can be effective in treatment of PTSD, but I would hope we arent suggesting that this should be the first line treatment for PTSD.

I think generally I probably just find it valuable. But no, I am definitely not suggesting it as a first line of treatment.
I'm sure I am biased.
I know that the purpose of my graduate and professional education would be to make me a well rounded clinician and not to specialize (and limit myself).
I am curious about everything my future program will offer. I really appreciate the constructive analysis this entire post is giving me. Thank you!!

 

[cara susanna]

DBT is also being used to treat people with PTSD but I think its applications and its guiding principles can be used to treat a much wider population. From my own experience, I think anyone could benefit from DBT. Especially the distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness modules.

Although DBT skills training has been used to augment PTSD treatment and PTSD treatments have been integrated into DBT (such as PE), DBT itself is not really used to treat PTSD. Full model DBT, such as what you would be taught at Rutgers or other places, is for people with BPD or suicidal/self-harm behavior. Many of those individuals have PTSD as well, but PTSD by itself is not really what DBT would be targeting.

 

[foreverbull]

Regardless of which graduate program you choose, each can provide well-rounded training experiences/practica that may be exactly what you are looking for in terms of training. We had a range of sites to apply to as practica sites in my grad program, including VAs, college counseling centers, hospitals, and community mental health centers, women's shelters, etc. Some may even have options to do practica in prisons, so it's not so much about the graduate program as the experiences you will have during your practica as a therapist in training and your supervisors' theoretical orientations. One of my colleagues in my Ph.D. program loved DBT and sought out practica experiences that would align with that (homeless shelters, a hospital setting, etc.).
In sum, most graduate programs will provide well-rounded practice experiences, so don't limit yourself from the get-go!

 

[bmedclinic]

Thank you!!! I hate to be a bother but is there any way you can guide me on how to search within a forum? I don't know how to do that just yet, and it is hard to weed through the pages of WAMC to find what I am looking for

so literally, I went to the top right hand corner, in the search box and typed PGSP WAMC GRE. It pulled up 5 responses. I'd start there.
Also, im pretty far removed from this now.. but I think programs the apa mandates that programs report this data on their website. Of course, failure to do this is a red flag, in and of itself. TBH, though, I dont remember exactly what data programs have to report and I did see that PGSP reports some data.

 

[RickH7]

I would like to specialize in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. The reason I want Rutgers so badly is that their clinic specializes in it. The only school in California that specializes in it is Cal Lutheran and they aren't even APA accredited.

Just an update, for those who are interested in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, California Lutheran University's PsyD program is now APA accredited (since 2015). The PsyD program offers courses in DBT and students can be supervised in the School's community counseling services center in their DBT work with clients and also take part in DBT research.

 

[psych.meout]

Just an update, for those who are interested in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, California Lutheran University's PsyD program is now APA accredited (since 2015). The PsyD program offers courses in DBT and students can be supervised in the School's community counseling services center in their DBT work with clients and also take part in DBT research.

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2017-18 Cost
$965 per credit
$110,010 base cost

Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data

I realize that the program is quite new, but <65% match rate for over $110,000 in tuition alone is not a good deal by any means. Hell, even with 100% match it still wouldn't be very good at that price.

 

[WisNeuro]

Lots of cheaper options with fully funded programs. Many programs have practicum placements at centers that do DBT treatments.

 

[DailyJoy]

I would suggest applying to more than two programs (10-12 seems like the sweet spot for most). Some counseling psychology PhDs don't require as much research experience for admission and may focus more on practice (most websites should let you know what the programs balance is between the two). As far as GPA goes, if you continue to have strong grades at your new institution for the last two years, it won't be as large of a barrier. I had the same issue (bad first few years and non-traditional student in mid 20s) and with better grades, competitive GRE scores, and good matches with faculty I faired well in the application process. You just have to make sure your entire application packet is tight. I would suggest a GRE test prep program like Magoosh. I also had the same concern about children and have met several women who have graduated from PhD programs who started with kids or had children between their 2nd year up to post-doc. It's not easy, but I've been told that a supportive partner and program make it less intense.

Also, the link that has postings about people's chances for grad school is below:
WAMC: What Are My Chances