a few questions

[Sakab]

I'm an entering freshman at an undergraduate institution with the prospect of majoring in chemistry. I'm very interested in the pharmacy field and want to enter pharmacy school in the future, but I have some questions regarding the pre-pharmacy process and what not.

1. I've read that most people acquire their B.S. before entering pharmacy school. Does that mean they have their B.S. before they apply as well, or do they apply in their junior or senior year (in undergrad) and the pharmacy school assumes that they will have their B.S. degree before entering the pharmacy program? In either case (whichever one is correct), when would you recommend both taking the PCAT and applying to pharmacy schools (I want to apply early)? Do most people apply during two different cycles to maximize their chance? If so, when should I apply?

2. Should I ONLY take pre-req classes during my freshman/sophomore year, and then focus on the classes I need to fulfill my major during my junior/senior year? Would I have enough time for all the pre-reqs in two years, or do you think I would have to take some summer classes (for the lesser important courses such as economics, public speaking, etc) as well? (If I need to take summer classes...) Is taking summer classes at my undergrad worth the money (over taking them at a CC)?

3. Do 2+4, 2+3, etc. routes only apply to high school students? As an undergraduate freshman, can I apply to any programs that will transfer me into a pharmacy school right after I complete my pre-reqs+PCAT (saving me 2 years of undergrad)?

4. Is it worth taking extra classes that only some schools require in return for a broader selection of schools to apply to (classes such as Microbiology, Biochemistry, Statistics, Public Speaking etc. )? I guess this is more of an individual question that I need to ask myself after reviewing the requirements to all of the schools that I want to apply to. Just looking for some insight...

5. Would a non-ACS certified chemistry major be more suitable?

6. I picked chemistry as a major because it would obviously make the pre-pharm process easier. If I don't get into pharmacy school, though, I can't really see myself becoming a chemist in the future. (Though, I do understand that there are many areas that can be explored with a chemistry degree). Should I pick a different major?

7. How much leadership experience do you really need? Though I will be involved in various clubs, volunteering efforts, and hopefully some direct pharmacy related work/shadowing, I don't know if I'll be able to assume any leadership positions.


I realize that this is a plethora of questions (some of which may be obvious or "dumb") but I don't want to screw up in my undergraduate years when I could of just planned ahead.

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[trljjl03]

Well I can't answer all of your questions but I'll give some of them a shot.

1. I think most people apply at the end of their junior year/summer after junior year/beginning of senior year. It's like applying to undergraduate colleges - you apply before you actually get your diploma. For schools that require a BA/BS, they probably do some sort of follow up to see if you actually graduated. I would recommend taking the PCAT in July of the summer you're applying but if you want to get things in earlier than the end of August, I suppose you could take the one in January instead and submit your application in June or July. Also, I think most people only plan on applying during one cycle and apply again if they don't get in. I know a few people who just tried a year earlier than planned (after sophomore year) and they got in so it sometimes works.

2. Since you're majoring in chemistry, a lot of the pre-reqs will overlap with your major requirements (I'm a chem major too). If you think a particular pre-req is going to be really difficult for you, maybe put it off until senior year. That way you might alread be accpeted by the time you have to take the class. Try not to do this with too many though - I'm pretty sure admissions committees like to see grades for their pre-req classes. It's usually possible to do all the pre-reqs in two years doing only pre-reqs and nothing else but I wouldn't recommend it. It's going to be pretty hard for no good reason. Honestly, since your major and the pre-reqs overlap so much, you probably don't have to worry about summer class but I don't know anything about your chemistry programs so I could be wrong.

One tip on pre-reqs - take anatomy first then physiology (it makes physiology easier) and take them the year before the PCAT (so spring sophomore year and fall junior year if you're taking it in January or fall and spring junior year if you're taking it in July). THis way, you'll be studying for class and the PCAT at the same time. You could do this with other classes too.

3. I don't know a lot about these programs but I heard that it's really hard to get into NDSU's pharmacy program if you didn't go to NDSU for the first 2 years (they're a 2+4 program). I'm not sure if this is the case with other programs though. You could contact the schools you're interested in to see if this is the case.

4. Yes!! You might change your mind about which school to go to. Also, those extra classes (especially BioChem from what I've heard) can only help you do better once you get in to pharmacy school.

5. I don't know much about ACS so I can't help much here. I'm getting a BA in chem and I don't think it's ACS certified but I don't know if that would help/hurt my chances.

6. Choose the major that you like. As long as you have the pre-reqs done (and well), your major shouldn't have a giant impact on your chances. Like I said earlier though, there's a lot of overlap with chem (and a few other majors like bio and biochem) and pre-reqs. SO there are majors that will make taking all the classes in 4 years easier but, ultimately, go with the major that you actually like.

7. I've had trouble getting leadership experience because my school is so huge. You can show leadership through clubs without having a specific position though (planning a certain event, or project, etc.). If you have a pre-pharmacy club at your school, that might provide a lot of opportunities for job shadowing, volunteering, and actual jobs. As long as you're involved I don't think it's a huge deal if you don't have a specific leadership position. Maybe someone else here can comment on this....

Well I hope this helps! If you have any othe questions, just ask. It's great that your planning ahead. I wish I had started this early - I didn't know there were pre-reqa for pharmacy school until the end of freshman year (and then they kept changing them )!

 

[Sakab]

Well I can't answer all of your questions but I'll give some of them a shot.

1. I think most people apply at the end of their junior year/summer after junior year/beginning of senior year. It's like applying to undergraduate colleges - you apply before you actually get your diploma. For schools that require a BA/BS, they probably do some sort of follow up to see if you actually graduated. I would recommend taking the PCAT in July of the summer you're applying but if you want to get things in earlier than the end of August, I suppose you could take the one in January instead and submit your application in June or July. Also, I think most people only plan on applying during one cycle and apply again if they don't get in. I know a few people who just tried a year earlier than planned (after sophomore year) and they got in so it sometimes works.

2. Since you're majoring in chemistry, a lot of the pre-reqs will overlap with your major requirements (I'm a chem major too). If you think a particular pre-req is going to be really difficult for you, maybe put it off until senior year. That way you might alread be accpeted by the time you have to take the class. Try not to do this with too many though - I'm pretty sure admissions committees like to see grades for their pre-req classes. It's usually possible to do all the pre-reqs in two years doing only pre-reqs and nothing else but I wouldn't recommend it. It's going to be pretty hard for no good reason. Honestly, since your major and the pre-reqs overlap so much, you probably don't have to worry about summer class but I don't know anything about your chemistry programs so I could be wrong.

One tip on pre-reqs - take anatomy first then physiology (it makes physiology easier) and take them the year before the PCAT (so spring sophomore year and fall junior year if you're taking it in January or fall and spring junior year if you're taking it in July). THis way, you'll be studying for class and the PCAT at the same time. You could do this with other classes too.

3. I don't know a lot about these programs but I heard that it's really hard to get into NDSU's pharmacy program if you didn't go to NDSU for the first 2 years (they're a 2+4 program). I'm not sure if this is the case with other programs though. You could contact the schools you're interested in to see if this is the case.

4. Yes!! You might change your mind about which school to go to. Also, those extra classes (especially BioChem from what I've heard) can only help you do better once you get in to pharmacy school.

5. I don't know much about ACS so I can't help much here. I'm getting a BA in chem and I don't think it's ACS certified but I don't know if that would help/hurt my chances.

6. Choose the major that you like. As long as you have the pre-reqs done (and well), your major shouldn't have a giant impact on your chances. Like I said earlier though, there's a lot of overlap with chem (and a few other majors like bio and biochem) and pre-reqs. SO there are majors that will make taking all the classes in 4 years easier but, ultimately, go with the major that you actually like.

7. I've had trouble getting leadership experience because my school is so huge. You can show leadership through clubs without having a specific position though (planning a certain event, or project, etc.). If you have a pre-pharmacy club at your school, that might provide a lot of opportunities for job shadowing, volunteering, and actual jobs. As long as you're involved I don't think it's a huge deal if you don't have a specific leadership position. Maybe someone else here can comment on this....

Well I hope this helps! If you have any othe questions, just ask. It's great that your planning ahead. I wish I had started this early - I didn't know there were pre-reqa for pharmacy school until the end of freshman year (and then they kept changing them )!

Thanks for all your advice trljjl03. I just made a schedule using the dates you gave me to help me stay on track.

Though, I’m still unsure about the second part of my third question. Are there any schools at all that let you enroll in their pharmacy school after completing two years of undergrad at a different place? Also, what other “required courses that only pertain to a handful of schools” should I consider taking other than anatomy/physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, psychology, economics, statistics, speech/public speaking, humanities, and english composition? Or are maybe some of these not worth taking?

Advice from someone regarding ACS certified degree vs. non ACS certified degree would also be appreciated.

I mean, I enjoy chemistry but I don’t know... I think it’s too early for me to judge whether or not it will be a worthwhile major. I can always change at a future date.

Again, thanks for the help trljjl03.

 

[shishquab]

Are there any schools at all that let you enroll in their pharmacy school after completing two years of undergrad at a different place? Also, what other “required courses that only pertain to a handful of schools” should I consider taking other than anatomy/physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, psychology, economics, statistics, speech/public speaking, humanities, and english composition? Or are maybe some of these not worth taking?

I believe all 2+3 and 2+4 pharmacy schools will accept students who completed their 2 years of prerequisite courses in other institutions. Some schools accept students straight out of high school and combine the prerequisites and pharmacy school curriculum (sometimes called 0+6 on here).

If you are planning on applying to schools that have a religious background, the beautiful Regis University in Denver for example, they usually require a religious studies/world religion course. Maybe you can work that in as your humanities class.

 

[Sakab]

I believe all 2+3 and 2+4 pharmacy schools will accept students who completed their 2 years of prerequisite courses in other institutions. Some schools accept students straight out of high school and combine the prerequisites and pharmacy school curriculum (sometimes called 0+6 on here).

If you are planning on applying to schools that have a religious background, the beautiful Regis University in Denver for example, they usually require a religious studies/world religion course. Maybe you can work that in as your humanities class.

But can I apply to these 2+3/2+4 pharmacy schools in my freshman or sophomore year in undergrad? I'm asking this because I didn't apply to any of these programs as a senior in high school because I didn't have an interest in pharmacy at the time.

 

[shishquab]

I think you might have some misconceptions about the pharmacy school admission process. X+X means years of undergrad+years of pharm school.

To wit,

0+6 programs accepts freshmen(and up) and lasts 6 years.

2+4 programs require roughly 2 years of undergrad (or however long it takes you to finish the prereqs) and then once accepted, the pharmacy program lasts another 4 years.

2+3 similarly require 2 years of prereqs and have a more accelerated schedule and/or year long programs(no summer/winter/spring breaks) that lasts 3 more years after acceptance.

​

As a brand spanking new freshman you can still apply to the schools with 0+6 programs.

The 2+3 and 2+4 schools are considered graduate schools and expects you to have most of your prerequisites done at the time you apply. For example if you are applying for this cycle(2012) you will need to finish all of your prereqs by spring of 2012 or maybe summer of 2012 by the absolute latest. The idea is that they want you to have completed all of the prereqs before you start pharmacy school in the fall of 2012, hence the term "prerequisites".

The pharmacy school admission staff also take the grades you earned in those prereqs into heavy consideration when granting acceptance, along with PCAT score, extracurricular activity, yaddi, yaddah. If you are accepted and failed to complete all of the prerequisites in time, schools will rescind your acceptance and give the seat to someone else. And yes you will have to go through the application process again next year, too.

So in short, no 2+3/2+4 pharmacy schools will admit you when you are an entering freshman and (I assume) have not yet completed any of the prerequisites or taken the PCAT. You can also only apply for the current cycle (2012) right now. You won't be able to apply for the 2013 cycle until the 2012 cycle is over and so on.

 

[shishquab]

You mentioned that you are an entering freshman. Did you just finish high school? If so, may I ask what happened within the past few months to kindle this intense and apparently urgent passion for pharmacy?

That's if you don't mind sharing, of course.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Also, what other “required courses that only pertain to a handful of schools” should I consider taking other than anatomy/physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, psychology, economics, statistics, speech/public speaking, humanities, and english composition? Or are maybe some of these not worth taking?

AACP has a list of the prereqs for different colleges - check here: http://www.aacp.org/resources/student/pharmacyforyou/admissions/Pages/PSAR.aspx

Or more specifically, here: http://www.aacp.org/resources/stude...s/Documents/2011_12_PSAR_school narrative.pdf
Or here: http://www.aacp.org/resources/acade...12 FINAL PharmacyPre-RequisiteInformation.pdf

I would certainly narrow down your list of "just to widen my chances" classes by looking at a half-dozen schools specifically rather than trying the scatter shot approach. That said, it looks like Calc, Statistics, Public Speaking, Micro, and English Comp are not bad choices. A&P looks like a "virtually all require" series too. Anything else (you listed "humanities," as an example) I feel should be targeted.

 

[Sakab]

@shishquab;
Okay thanks for clarifying, I understand it now. But isn't it hard to study/take the PCAT, be involved in extracurriculars, have plenty of pharmacy experience, and finish all of the pre-reqs in just the first two years of college, when you're still getting used to the transition from high school to college in the first semester? I assume the 2+3/2+4 programs aren't that popular? And since you won't have a B.S. when you enroll in pharmacy school, do most of them end up giving you a B.S. in pharmacy or something in addition to the PharmD.? Would you say that 2+3/2+4 programs are more or less competitive than the tradional program (4+4)?

@xtsukiyox
I've already looked at those. It just seems like a lot of schools have different requirements and it seems like a hassle to try and determine what the best schedule would be (especially if I want to apply to a handful of schools).

 

[xtsukiyox]

I've already looked at those. It just seems like a lot of schools have different requirements and it seems like a hassle to try and determine what the best schedule would be (especially if I want to apply to a handful of schools).

Yep. It is a hassle.

 

[trljjl03]

Yep. It is a hassle.

Agreed. That's why I decided to only apply to the school I really want to go to. I don't have room for 500 different pre-reqs.

 

[shishquab]

@shishquab;
Okay thanks for clarifying, I understand it now. But isn't it hard to study/take the PCAT, be involved in extracurriculars, have plenty of pharmacy experience, and finish all of the pre-reqs in just the first two years of college, when you're still getting used to the transition from high school to college in the first semester? I assume the 2+3/2+4 programs aren't that popular? And since you won't have a B.S. when you enroll in pharmacy school, do most of them end up giving you a B.S. in pharmacy or something in addition to the PharmD.? Would you say that 2+3/2+4 programs are more or less competitive than the tradional program (4+4)?

The 2+3 and 2+4 programs are actually quite popular. I believe there are many more of these than 0+6. This is probably due to the fact that not many people decide on and work towards a career while still in high school. The 2+3 and 2+4 also offer a chance to get a taste of college level course work.

Maybe 2+3 and 2+4 are misnomers. We only throw the 2+ in there to indicate that the prereqs will take roughly 2 years to complete. As I have mentioned, these schools are graduate programs and you can apply to these schools anytime after you are done with the prereqs. There are some that only take the prereqs. Many people decide to attain a bachelor's degree before jetting off to pharmacy school while some have masters and PhD.

Normally the only degree you get from pharmacy school is a PharmD. Some schools offer dual degree programs like PharmD/MBA or PharmD/PhD, but you will need to have at least a bachelors before applying to the dual degree programs.

It can be difficult to have everything (pharmacy experience, volunteer, PCAT...) done in 2 years, but it's definitely possible.

 

[klj5269]

I think what is happening in pharmacy right now is the role of pharmacists in practice are expanding and schools are trending to become more like med schools with a majority of entering students holding a bachelors degree because they want more mature and experienced students.

However, it is a transition that is still happening so there are still programs out there designed to be strictly 2 years of basic prereqs without upper level classes that you apply to between your freshman and sophomore years and start in what would have been your junior year undergrad.

If you don't know where you want to go to pharmacy school or want to apply broadly, you obviously have to cover all your bases and take a bunch of prereqs, which is annoying. It can seem like a waste of time for a career that used to be completed in 4 years (back in the 70s) then 6 years now 8 years. But the upside of that is you have more schools to chose from and you will be a better candidate and more prepared for the pharmacy curriculum.

When I started college, I was planning on doing a 2+4 program, but as time went on, the school I really wanted to go to went from 60 to 75 to 90 credits of prereqs, so I am finally applying this year and will have my bachelors when I start pharmacy school next fall.