A question about the necessity of research +/- pubs

[swman]

So I've searched far and wide and haven't found any threads that answered my question (and probably for good reason because it will be hard to answer with anything close to certainty):

I'm wondering IN GENERAL (I know it totally depeds on the applicant's other stats/qualities and the programs applied to) but IN GENERAL for getting into which specialties is research an absolute must?

I'm only asking because I'm looking ahead to the future. I'm just starting my 3rd year rotations, am not quite sure about what I might want to do but plan to figure it out this year. I'm thinking about taking a year off between MS3 and MS4 to do a research year IF NEED BE should I become interested in a competitive specialty where research is the norm for accepted applicants. I just wanted to know others' opinions on which specialties these are exactly. If I had to guess I would think Derm, RadOnc, and any type of surgery, but I could be off - that's why I'm asking all of you.

Thanks.

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[socmob]

The AAMC and NRMP release a report every year that has this information. It's called: Charting Outcomes in the Match: Characteristics of Applicants who Matched to Their Preferred Specialty in the 2007 NRMP Main Residency Matc. Download it here: https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...1&cftoken=00F5F445-BA53-4E5E-A218B75D2DCAF92C

You can look at each specialty and see the exact numbers of those applicants that had research, publications, etc. (and how many) and their match outcomes. For example, Dermatology last year - applicants who matched had a mean # of 3.4 research experiences and 5.7 abstracts, publications, and presentations. You can see that 74% of those with 5+ abstracts/pubs/presentations matched while only 40% matched w/o any of these things. Obviously there's a big difference there, but 24 people did match into derm w/ 0 publications or presentations. That document's pretty amazing actually, lets you see lots of data on step 1 scores, AOA...all sorts of things.

 

[swman]

The AAMC and NRMP release a report every year that has this information. It's called: Charting Outcomes in the Match: Characteristics of Applicants who Matched to Their Preferred Specialty in the 2007 NRMP Main Residency Matc. Download it here: https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...1&cftoken=00F5F445-BA53-4E5E-A218B75D2DCAF92C

You can look at each specialty and see the exact numbers of those applicants that had research, publications, etc. (and how many) and their match outcomes. For example, Dermatology last year - applicants who matched had a mean # of 3.4 research experiences and 5.7 abstracts, publications, and presentations. You can see that 74% of those with 5+ abstracts/pubs/presentations matched while only 40% matched w/o any of these things. Obviously there's a big difference there, but 24 people did match into derm w/ 0 publications or presentations. That document's pretty amazing actually, lets you see lots of data on step 1 scores, AOA...all sorts of things.

socmob,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. I have been aware of this report since it came out and agree that it is an incredibly informative and helpful document. However, I have always been skeptical when it comes to the numbers regarding research, since just about every medical student has "research experience" of some sort. Also I dislike the fact that "Publications, abstracts, and presentations" are all lumped into one category for purposes of the report, making it hard to see what kind of research people are doing. We all know that competitive residency directors are looking for publications. Anybody can come up with an abstract and then present a poster at a regional medical conference - heck I even did, but I doubt anybody will care.

So I guess what I'm saying is this document, although great, is a bit limited in diffentiating just how much and what type of a research commitment is desired of a candidate according to each specialty.

I think the best I can do is use these numbers and read the FAQ's and other threads for each specialty. Doing this I came to my own little conclusion that I best take a year off for some serious research if I end up wanting to do Derm, RadOnc, Plastics, Neurosurg, or ENT. For Ortho, Urology, or Ophtho I would probably be able to do a more managable project during 4th year. I'll plan to keep that in the back of my mind as I spend 3rd year figuring out what I want to go into though.

If anybody else has additional genuine insight to offer, please feel free to contribute.

Thanks

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

I'm sort of in a similar situation as you. I'd like to go into a competitive surgical subspecialty where research experiences are valued. I don't foresee myself having much time 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to have any meaningful research experiences. I just finished two months of basic science research after first year and might have my data published. Either way, that'd be 1 research experience for me-not anything like 3.4 or whatever. My goal is just to continue doing stellar in medical school and to score as high as possible on Step 1. I think the only way I'd take a year off to do research would be if my Step 1 score wasn't stellar. Perhaps I'll have some elective time 3rd year to do a small clinically oriented research project.

socmob,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. I have been aware of this report since it came out and agree that it is an incredibly informative and helpful document. However, I have always been skeptical when it comes to the numbers regarding research, since just about every medical student has "research experience" of some sort. Also I dislike the fact that "Publications, abstracts, and presentations" are all lumped into one category for purposes of the report, making it hard to see what kind of research people are doing. We all know that competitive residency directors are looking for publications. Anybody can come up with an abstract and then present a poster at a regional medical conference - heck I even did, but I doubt anybody will care.

So I guess what I'm saying is this document, although great, is a bit limited in diffentiating just how much and what type of a research commitment is desired of a candidate according to each specialty.

I think the best I can do is use these numbers and read the FAQ's and other threads for each specialty. Doing this I came to my own little conclusion that I best take a year off for some serious research if I end up wanting to do Derm, RadOnc, Plastics, Neurosurg, or ENT. For Ortho, Urology, or Ophtho I would probably be able to do a more managable project during 4th year. I'll plan to keep that in the back of my mind as I spend 3rd year figuring out what I want to go into though.

If anybody else has additional genuine insight to offer, please feel free to contribute.

Thanks

 

[swman]

I'm sort of in a similar situation as you. I'd like to go into a competitive surgical subspecialty where research experiences are valued. I don't foresee myself having much time 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to have any meaningful research experiences. I just finished two months of basic science research after first year and might have my data published. Either way, that'd be 1 research experience for me-not anything like 3.4 or whatever. My goal is just to continue doing stellar in medical school and to score as high as possible on Step 1. I think the only way I'd take a year off to do research would be if my Step 1 score wasn't stellar. Perhaps I'll have some elective time 3rd year to do a small clinically oriented research project.

I think your logic is spot on - whether you get a pub or not keep that research experience in your back pocket and proceed with trying to absolutely strangle M2 and Step 1. For me that meant obsessing over my classes and Goljan and it worked as I intended (I ended up with a 263 - which should open a ton of doors for me).

I am just a little ancy about this year since I am doing my M3 rotations at a smaller hospital 10 hrs away from the main campus where all the bigwig researchers are - making it harder to get in on a research project until 4th year when I go back to the main campus. To make matters worse, surgery is my last rotation so I will basically be finding out last minute whether or not I like it and thus if I need to do research to be competitive: