a really, really old LOR

[biscuitsbiscuits]

It's me again, with another question. This time it's about an aaaaaaaancient letter of recommendation.

I almost applied to PhD programs ten years ago. I had everything ready: GREs, transcripts, personal statements, LORs... but I didn't pull the trigger for various reasons I won't go into. I still have all of my application materials sitting in a box in my closet.

I'm getting ready to apply next year (and my story is coming together here on this board, I guess). I will have two LORs from supervisors, which should be decent. But I don't have any recent academic references. One of my professors wrote LORs for me at the time and I still have them in envelopes with his signature across the seal. I've never opened or read them. I assume they are dated, so I'm not going to just toss them into the new application like it's NBD.

But.... can I use them somehow? I've thought of two possible ways that I might be able to. One is to contact the schools I'm applying to and see how they feel about taking an old LOR as is, sealed and everything. The other is to contact the professor and ask if he could redo the letters. He's still at the institution, but I'm pretty certain he wouldn't remember me. It's been a long time and we didn't keep in touch. Seems a little strange to be like, "how about I just give you the letters you wrote before and you can copy/paste?" Right?

Should I let it go?

It would be great if I could get an academic LOR, which is why I'm clinging to this one. My only other real option would be to go back to my undergrad advisor and talk to him about it, but that's going back even further. I'm old.

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[Justanothergrad]

What would a letter from ten years ago say about who you are today? Do you have the same sets of knowledge, the same experiences, the same perspectives, etc?

I would have some rather serious questions, reading that, about why you were using that to describe you as a person now and why that was the best character description of your person, ability, etc. I appreciate the desire for a academic letter, but that seems secondary to having such a dated letter.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

What would a letter from ten years ago say about who you are today? Do you have the same sets of knowledge, the same experiences, the same perspectives, etc?

I would have some rather serious questions, reading that, about why you didn't have anything describing you as a person now and why that was the best character description of your person, ability, etc.

I will have two letters from very recent supervisors, but I've been out of school for ten years. Many schools require at least one LOR to be academic and even if there is no requirement, I know that academic letters are highly desired over non-academic letters. So I'm going to need one, and I was wondering whether this would be an option.

 

[hamsterpants]

I'm older than you I took classes through the extension program of my undergraduate institution and received LORs from professors of those courses. I think gre scores are not valid after 5 years and I would think letters may be viewed similarly. You want to show evidence of current academic promise not that you had some 10 years ago. Also, you want to be sure that the letter writer can write you a strong, even glowing LOR. If it appears they don't really know you, I think that might damn you with faint praise esp as letters writers tend to go a bit over the top these days. my 3 cents.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I'm older than you I took classes through the extension program of my undergraduate institution and received LORs from professors of those courses. I think gre scores are not valid after 5 years and I would think letters may be viewed similarly. You want to show evidence of current academic promise not that you had some 10 years ago. Also, you want to be sure that the letter writer can write you a strong, even glowing LOR. If it appears they don't really know you, I think that might damn you with faint praise esp as letters writers tend to go a bit over the top these days. my 3 cents.

Well, ten years ago I finished my masters, so who knows re age....

Yes you're probably right about all of that. I'm not sure if I'll be able to take/audit classes at this point to develop a relationship with a professor. It's a good suggestion, though. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I will have two letters from very recent supervisors, but I've been out of school for ten years. Many schools require at least one LOR to be academic and even if there is no requirement, I know that academic letters are highly desired over non-academic letters. So I'm going to need one, and I was wondering whether this would be an option.

The better option, in my eyes, would be to contact the schools you are interested in and ask given your situation. That works well for students that are coming right out of UG or a MA even. After not too long in the workforce its easy to become separated from that academic identity they expect.

as letters writers tend to go a bit over the top these days

I'm pretty sure I've seen letters where people are credited with small miracles, the invention of the wheel, and the discovery of the law of gravity.

 

[empathiosis]

I know this isn't a helpful comment, but your situation is a perfect example of why it's important to keep in touch with professors. I graduated from undergrad in 1995 and didn't apply to doctoral programs until 2007. Because I had worked very closely with one of my professors and had kept in touch with her over the years, asking for a recommendation twelve years after graduation wasn't an issue.

In your case I think contacting the professor is a fine option. It never hurts to ask, particularly if you remind him that he wrote you a letter ten years ago. I suppose you could also call up the schools to ask. I would be surprised if they would accept a ten-year old LOR, but you never know. I agree with you that it's important to have at least one academic LOR.

 

[CheetahGirl]

IMO...I would contact the former professor and not the schools you are applying.

Frankly, it sounds ridiculous (to me) to use a 10-yr old letter in any capacity. But not ridiculous at all, to contact the professor and have a discussion saying, "Hello, remember me? Most likely not, but....I have a letter you wrote with me now and I was wondering if I could scan it in and send it to you (or open it and transcribe it for you) so you may be able to revise and resend it...here is what I have done since...."

Most likely the professor will not remember you (unless you were someone who worked closely with said professor), but by letting him/her know how much you've done since and the goal still stands, he/she may be able to upgrade the letter by saying ("biscuitsbiscuits has worked diligently and passionately to get him/herself to this point and I strongly encourage consideration of this application"). Most rec letters should say "I have known biscuitsbiscuits for XX yrs and in the capacity of a undergraduate professor") so his upgraded line will sound much better in new letter.

I would only consider making this the potential-new-grad-school's issue if the professor was deceased (God Forbid) or no longer with the dept; Otherwise, you want to lay low at the applicant stage and call for the least amount of attention (only b/c you will be up against people with current letters who are kicking butt now...not saying you are not kicking but now...but minimize any drama associated with your application). And I'm glad you asked for opinions here first!! Look how varied our responses are...so you chose what is best for you.

Good luck!

Edit: I applied to my doctoral program many years out of undergrad, and I did something similar (contacted an old undergrad professor)...guess what the Sorry Sap (said with respect) never replied to my email, but I only sent one email...so I would encourage a phone call b/c I didn't have enough courage at the time to pursue it. Fast forward: I ended up getting a Masters prior to doctoral training and used academic references from those professors (which were very favorable b/c I was an excellent student at that point, whereas in undergrad I was "1" in large classes of 50-180 students, and most likely not very memorable). My masters professors knew me very well so my letters brought out my personality more...which maybe made interviewers want to meet me. That is what you are looking for...letters that encourage admission committees to bring you in for interviews.

Edit 2: Were the letters from 10-yrs out of Masters or undergrad???? I would still contact the professor by phone and say something similar "Hi, this is me, this is my situation, this is what I have done, and can you support me now in my application process?" And IMO do pull the trigger this time! You only have one life. I'm not a college professor (yet) but I can tell you that I would not hesitate to support someone as long as I knew they were seriously dedicated, and I would only choose to say what I knew about that person (hence supplying them with the text of the old letter is advisable), on my institution's letterhead, so sharing the burden of support with the institution.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I know this isn't a helpful comment, but your situation is a perfect example of why it's important to keep in touch with professors. I graduated from undergrad in 1995 and didn't apply to doctoral programs until 2007. Because I had worked very closely with one of my professors and had kept in touch with her over the years, asking for a recommendation twelve years after graduation wasn't an issue.

In your case I think contacting the professor is a fine option. It never hurts to ask, particularly if you remind him that he wrote you a letter ten years ago. I suppose you could also call up the schools to ask. I would be surprised if they would accept a ten-year old LOR, but you never know. I agree with you that it's important to have at least one academic LOR.

It is helpful! Maybe not to me at this time, but to others. It should go into that advice thread if it's not already there.

I agree that contacting him would be the best option. I realize that asking the schools wouldn't work, not only because it would be bad-weird, but because the list of schools I'm applying to has changed slightly so I'd be missing a LOR for some.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

IMO...I would contact the former professor and not the schools you are applying.

Frankly, it sounds ridiculous (to me) to use a 10-yr old letter in any capacity. But not ridiculous at all, to contact the professor and have a discussion saying, "Hello, remember me? Most likely not, but....I have a letter you wrote with me now and I was wondering if I could scan it in and send it to you (or open it and transcribe it for you) so you may be able to revise and resend it...here is what I have done since...."

Most likely the professor will not remember you (unless you were someone who worked closely with said professor), but by letting him/her know how much you've done since and the goal still stands, he/she may be able to upgrade the letter by saying ("biscuitsbiscuits has worked diligently and passionately to get him/herself to this point and I strongly encourage consideration of this application"). Most rec letters should say "I have known biscuitsbiscuits for XX yrs and in the capacity of a undergraduate professor") so his upgraded line will sound much better in new letter.

I would only consider making this the potential-new-grad-school's issue if the professor was deceased (God Forbid) or no longer with the dept; Otherwise, you want to lay low at the applicant stage and call for the least amount of attention (only b/c you will be up against people with current letters who are kicking butt now...not saying you are not kicking but now...but minimize any drama associated with your application). And I'm glad you asked for opinions here first!! Look how varied our responses are...so you chose what is best for you.

Good luck!

Edit: I applied to my doctoral program many years out of undergrad, and I did something similar (contacted an old undergrad professor)...guess what the Sorry Sap (said with respect) never replied to my email, but I only sent one email...so I would encourage a phone call b/c I didn't have enough courage at the time to pursue it. Fast forward: I ended up getting a Masters prior to doctoral training and used academic references from those professors (which were very favorable b/c I was an excellent student at that point, whereas in undergrad I was "1" in large classes of 50-180 students, and most likely not very memorable). My masters professors knew me very well so my letters brought out my personality more...which maybe made interviewers want to meet me. That is what you are looking for...letters that encourage admission committees to bring you in for interviews.

Edit 2: Were the letters from 10-yrs out of Masters or undergrad???? I would still contact the professor by phone and say something similar "Hi, this is me, this is my situation, this is what I have done, and can you support me now in my application process?" And IMO do pull the trigger this time! You only have one life. I'm not a college professor (yet) but I can tell you that I would not hesitate to support someone as long as I knew they were seriously dedicated, and I would only choose to say what I knew about that person (hence supplying them with the text of the old letter is advisable), on my institution's letterhead, so sharing the burden of support with the institution.

Thanks so much for this!

I agree that contacting the professor would be the best option. He is indeed still living and still at the same institution (which is, incidentally, one that I'd like to apply to). And to answer your question, this is ten years out of masters.

Great advice regarding how to approach the professor after all this time. I might see if I can meet with him in person, as I still live very near the school. It would be better to discuss this face to face if possible.

And really good point about not being the Weird applicant with the Issues. I hadn't thought of it like that before, but you're totally right. Bad idea jeans.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and support. This has been really helpful. I think that concludes my advice-seeking for the moment, so I'll go back to lurking now.