a scrambled egg

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
pipetman

pipetman

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
97
Reaction score
0
First of all, congrats to the new residents. You worked hard, maybe some of it was luck, but you did it and should be proud.

Moving on..

According to the stats (correct me if I am wrong) 63 students have gone unmatched, 37 spots remain available, leaving 26 students sitting out this year.

I am opening up this forum to advice to those who need it, those in the scramble. If you scrambled in the past, please share some advice. The reasons why a student is unmatched at this point is moot so it won't be discussed here.

So what did you do differently this time around?
Did you do a preceptorship?
Did you have to sit out the year and re-apply?
How aggressive were you in contacting programs? What worked, what didn't?
What was more helpful-your program, or other students/residents etc?

Good luck brothers-
Members don't see this ad.
 
I don't think it makes this thread unnecessary, but you are wrong. Of the 599 CASPR applicants, 529 were current 4th year students. The rest were re-apps. After the second administration of part II there 40+ students who still hadn't passed.

So, of the 530 "contending" applicants (people still "alive" for a seat, so to speak), only around 490 of them are current 4th years. 503 seats for 490 students means a student who doesn't get a seat after the scramble is all said and done had some serious issues.
 
I scrambled back in the day before everyone had the chance at surgical residencies and was lucky enough to get a non surgical program in the scramble, and then scored a surgical program the following year.

It was a heartbreaking time for me and really forced me to evaluate what I did and how I did it. I can say that I went into the interviews the second time around MUCH better prepared and confident and literally had to turn down a dozen or so programs after I was selected for a Non CASPR program. I didn't apply to enough programs the first time around and didn't make that mistake twice.

Now it is better, but also worse, since graduates without a program can't get non surgical training in a CPME approved program, but it is better in a sense that if you have to scramble and do eventually get into a program, it is surgical and you don't have to go through the process again.

It is a trying time for those that don't match and my heart goes out to them. Truly.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I don't think it makes this thread unnecessary, but you are wrong. Of the 599 CASPR applicants, 529 were current 4th year students. The rest were re-apps. After the second administration of part II there 40+ students who still hadn't passed.

So, of the 530 "contending" applicants (people still "alive" for a seat, so to speak), only around 490 of them are current 4th years. 503 seats for 490 students means a student who doesn't get a seat after the scramble is all said and done had some serious issues.
__________________
Ok, I can't follow your math (529 were current fourth years...of the 530 contending applicants) so the stats given were not correct since there wasn't a division in the stats of previous applicants vs first time applicants.. Thank you for pointing that out. That was not the original post, but if you have scrambled in the past or know others who have then please, share your input.

thanks to kidsfeet for the success story.

good luck to all.
 
Last edited:
pipetman said:
hmmmm. but the "pool" doesn't discriminate between previous years, so how does that matter?
Click to expand...

It does though. Believe me.

The REAL question is why didn't these people match to begin with?? If they were their worst enemies in externships, school and in the previous interview year, do you think that this doesn't maintain a certain stigma? If they slipped through the cracks and were just horribly unlucky (which happens), they have a great shot. However, if they were just butt heads and didn't make a concerted effort to change their ways, one year won't matter at all. See?
 
pipetman said:
First of all, congrats to the new residents. You worked hard, maybe some of it was luck, but you did it and should be proud.

Moving on..

According to the stats (correct me if I am wrong) 63 students have gone unmatched, 37 spots remain available, leaving 26 students sitting out this year.

I am opening up this forum to advice to those who need it, those in the scramble. If you scrambled in the past, please share some advice. The reasons why a student is unmatched at this point is moot so it won't be discussed here.

So what did you do differently this time around?
Did you do a preceptorship?
Did you have to sit out the year and re-apply?
How aggressive were you in contacting programs? What worked, what didn't?
What was more helpful-your program, or other students/residents etc?

Good luck brothers-
Click to expand...

Personally I think people who scramble failed to plan forthe worst scenario. One should not just apply to top programs and Rank just ahandful of programs; instead, you should visit programs and rank programs thatare more on the lower end. Give yourself more room to maneuver. Matching withany program is better than not matching at all.
 
dare1183 said:
Personally I think people who scramble failed to plan forthe worst scenario. One should not just apply to top programs and Rank just ahandful of programs; instead, you should visit programs and rank programs thatare more on the lower end. Give yourself more room to maneuver. Matching withany program is better than not matching at all.
Click to expand...

Ahhh if it were only that simple. The Match is a complex algorythm. Don't forget that just because YOU rank "lower end" programs doesn't mean they rank YOU.

Programs still have to rank you for you to have a shot at them. So if you never externed or visited these programs, your name may not be on their rank list and you won't match with them regardless. Programs don't take ALL the names on the student list of all the schools and consider them for a potential position in their program. It's not as easy a system as you think.
 
(529 were current fourth years...of the 530 contending applicants) so the stats given were not correct since there wasn't a division in the stats of previous applicants vs first time applicants.[/QUOTE]

Let's try this again. In January 599 people joined the CASPR pool.70 re-apps and 529 current 4th years.

Boards happened and 40-ish 4th years were removed from the CASPR pool. That means there are 490-ish current 4th years that have matched or are scrambling. Basically there are 490 4th years who have passed boards.

As of a couple days ago there were 530 "contending" applicants. Basically that means everyone else (in that original 599) either failed boards or withdrew their app. That number is a mix of 4th years and re-apps, but we know that about 490 of those are 4th years. So, of the 530 people who are in the mix, 490 are 4th years and 40 are re-apps.

Of course, of the 440 programs who originally matched, and the 30 or so seats that have already been filled, you don't really know how many were filled with re-apps vs current 4th years. If history is any indication, the number of re-apps who got positions is incredibly small.
 
Kidsfeet said:
Ahhh if it were only that simple. The Match is a complex algorythm. Don't forget that just because YOU rank "lower end" programs doesn't mean they rank YOU.

Programs still have to rank you for you to have a shot at them. So if you never externed or visited these programs, your name may not be on their rank list and you won't match with them regardless. Programs don't take ALL the names on the student list of all the schools and consider them for a potential position in their program. It's not as easy a system as you think.
Click to expand...

But with the way our system works, you only need 1 program on your rank list (anywhere on your rank list) to have ranked you in a position that is within the # of seats they have (ie they take 3 students, you need to be top 3).

Although, every year we hear of students who only ranked SOME of the programs they visited. Then, come to find out, a program that they though was ok but didn't rank had them as a top choice...boom, scramble. The more stories you hear from residents, the more you realize there is a REASON we have students who aren't getting positions every year...
 
ok, then open another thread with statistics and what the predictions are. that wasn't the intention of this.

can a mod close this thread? Its obviously not helping anyone. my bad.
 
dtrack22 said:
But with the way our system works, you only need 1 program on your rank list (anywhere on your rank list) to have ranked you in a position that is within the # of seats they have (ie they take 3 students, you need to be top 3).

Although, every year we hear of students who only ranked SOME of the programs they visited. Then, come to find out, a program that they though was ok but didn't rank had them as a top choice...boom, scramble. The more stories you hear from residents, the more you realize there is a REASON we have students who aren't getting positions every year...
Click to expand...

Agreed. That does happen for sure. I was just trying to explain that the system isn't as fool proof as everyone assumes.

Most think that everyone in every class gets ranked #1-#530(or whatever the number is for the number of students there are that year in the match) for each program and that is not the case at all. Programs only rank people they actually want in their program.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Kidsfeet said:
Agreed. That does happen for sure. I was just trying to explain that the system isn't as fool proof as everyone assumes.

Few think that everyone in every class gets ranked #1-#530(or whatever the number is for the number of students there are that year in the match) for each program and that is not the case at all. Programs only rank people they actually want in their program.
Click to expand...

Fixed.
 
dtrack22 said:
(529 were current fourth years...of the 530 contending applicants) so the stats given were not correct since there wasn't a division in the stats of previous applicants vs first time applicants.

Let's try this again. In January 599 people joined the CASPR pool.70 re-apps and 529 current 4th years.

Boards happened and 40-ish 4th years were removed from the CASPR pool. That means there are 490-ish current 4th years that have matched or are scrambling. Basically there are 490 4th years who have passed boards.

As of a couple days ago there were 530 "contending" applicants. Basically that means everyone else (in that original 599) either failed boards or withdrew their app. That number is a mix of 4th years and re-apps, but we know that about 490 of those are 4th years. So, of the 530 people who are in the mix, 490 are 4th years and 40 are re-apps.

Of course, of the 440 programs who originally matched, and the 30 or so seats that have already been filled, you don't really know how many were filled with re-apps vs current 4th years. If history is any indication, the number of re-apps who got positions is incredibly small.
Click to expand...

My head hurts...:mad:
 
I would agree with "few". At least at our school, the process is well explained and understood. But you always have the students who have no clue...as evidenced by the stories you hear about the dumb things externs do all across the country every year
 
pipetman said:
First of all, congrats to the new residents. You worked hard, maybe some of it was luck, but you did it and should be proud.

Moving on..

According to the stats (correct me if I am wrong) 63 students have gone unmatched, 37 spots remain available, leaving 26 students sitting out this year.

I am opening up this forum to advice to those who need it, those in the scramble. If you scrambled in the past, please share some advice. The reasons why a student is unmatched at this point is moot so it won't be discussed here.

So what did you do differently this time around?
Did you do a preceptorship?
Did you have to sit out the year and re-apply?
How aggressive were you in contacting programs? What worked, what didn't?
What was more helpful-your program, or other students/residents etc?

Good luck brothers-
Click to expand...
I was a re-applicant. Matched with my very top choice. Did not do a preceptorship. Worked a regular job that allowed me to survive and study for boards. Visited a few programs for a week or less. Nailed boards. Interview was a breeze (and so it should be...after all, I did graduate and should know my podiatric medicine).

My advice: Be honest. I was never ashamed of my situation, but I also didn't dwell on it. Be eager to learn, answer correctly questions while you visit programs and at interviews (again, if you graduated from podiatry, you should know your podiatric medicine well compared to a student who is in the middle of their 4th year.) Be humble. Don't get on anyone's nerves. Be confident, but not overly confident. Don't ask stupid questions (just better to be quiet than annoying). Don't get personal with anyone, be professional. Being chummy with a resident gets you only so far, its the Director who gets the final say. So make sure the Director sees how eager, honest, professional, humble, confident, and good of a student you are. But do keep in touch with the residents so they can bring up your name. Don't make enemies. People talk and it is a small community. I can't think of anymore on the spot. So if anyone has any more questions, you can PM me.

Good luck to everyone. It's hard. Been there. But it's not the end of the world. Only makes you stronger of a person.
 
1Foot2Feet said:
I was a re-applicant. Matched with my very top choice.

Congrats!!!!

My advice: Be honest. I was never ashamed of my situation, but I also didn't dwell on it. Be eager to learn, answer correctly questions while you visit programs and at interviews (again, if you graduated from podiatry, you should know your podiatric medicine well compared to a student who is in the middle of their 4th year.) Be humble. Don't get on anyone's nerves. Be confident, but not overly confident. Don't ask stupid questions (just better to be quiet than annoying). Don't get personal with anyone, be professional. Being chummy with a resident gets you only so far, its the Director who gets the final say. So make sure the Director sees how eager, honest, professional, humble, confident, and good of a student you are. But do keep in touch with the residents so they can bring up your name. Don't make enemies. People talk and it is a small community. I can't think of anymore on the spot. So if anyone has any more questions, you can PM me.

Excellent advice.

Good luck to everyone. It's hard. Been there. But it's not the end of the world. Only makes you stronger of a person.
Click to expand...

Same here and agreed.
 
There has been some excellent advice given in this thread, and some of it involves advice regarding the actual interview process. My son attends a university that invites parents who are in the medical field (yes, for the naysayers, they even invite DPMs) to participate in mock interviews for students who plan on applying to medical schools/dental/vet/podiatric, etc.

From my experience with those students, I've discovered and recommended a few things;

1) Don't get TOO opinionated. For example, I had an excellent student who was heavily involved with research. When I asked about his future plans, etc. he said he wanted to get his MD degree and was ONLY interested in research. Well, that can backfire. The medical school he is applying to may be more clinically oriented than research oriented. The MD interviewing him may be a "clinician" and not be looking for a researcher. The MD interviewing may have just gotten a divorce from a partner who was a researcher and it strikes a raw nerve. Yes, these may be far-fetched, but you NEVER know. It would have been wiser to say " at the present time I believe I'm interested in research, but since it's so early on in my training, I may decide clinical medicine is better suited for me".

2) Do NOT interview the interviewer. Don't start asking the interviewer questions about his career, expertise, field of interest, etc. And don't try to impress the interviewer by asking him/her questions. For example, I had a student who told me about all this esoteric research he was doing. He mentioned some very technical terms and then said to me, "you know about XYZ, don't you?" Wow, that could be a disaster. There are two possible scenarios. One is that the interviewer has no idea about XYZ and is now felt to feel stupid or is put on the defensive. The other scenario is that the interviewer is a world respected expert in that field and turns the table on the student to challenge how much the STUDENT really knows the research.

So answer questions honestly, don't feel that you have to spit out an answer without thinking, and if you don't know an answer, tell them. A wrong answer is worse than being honest. And be personable without turning tables on the interviewer and asking questions that are not appopriate or asking personal information.
 
PADPM said:
There has been some excellent advice given in this thread, and some of it involves advice regarding the actual interview process. My son attends a university that invites parents who are in the medical field (yes, for the naysayers, they even invite DPMs) to participate in mock interviews for students who plan on applying to medical schools/dental/vet/podiatric, etc.

From my experience with those students, I've discovered and recommended a few things;

1) Don't get TOO opinionated. For example, I had an excellent student who was heavily involved with research. When I asked about his future plans, etc. he said he wanted to get his MD degree and was ONLY interested in research. Well, that can backfire. The medical school he is applying to may be more clinically oriented than research oriented. The MD interviewing him may be a "clinician" and not be looking for a researcher. The MD interviewing may have just gotten a divorce from a partner who was a researcher and it strikes a raw nerve. Yes, these may be far-fetched, but you NEVER know. It would have been wiser to say " at the present time I believe I'm interested in research, but since it's so early on in my training, I may decide clinical medicine is better suited for me".

2) Do NOT interview the interviewer. Don't start asking the interviewer questions about his career, expertise, field of interest, etc. And don't try to impress the interviewer by asking him/her questions. For example, I had a student who told me about all this esoteric research he was doing. He mentioned some very technical terms and then said to me, "you know about XYZ, don't you?" Wow, that could be a disaster. There are two possible scenarios. One is that the interviewer has no idea about XYZ and is now felt to feel stupid or is put on the defensive. The other scenario is that the interviewer is a world respected expert in that field and turns the table on the student to challenge how much the STUDENT really knows the research.

So answer questions honestly, don't feel that you have to spit out an answer without thinking, and if you don't know an answer, tell them. A wrong answer is worse than being honest. And be personable without turning tables on the interviewer and asking questions that are not appopriate or asking personal information.
Click to expand...
hi dr. horl
 
^^^ and that's why I don't post so often anymore.
 
Folks,

Please refrain from making guesses or trying to figure out who is who on this site. You will likely have your post deleted and may face being banned.

This site works so well because we are all anonymous and like it that way. Although this is a public forum, we all appreciate our privacy as far as our identity. Let's all respect one another please.
 
Ha, sorry I don't know Dr. Horl, but I'm envious of his hours. On his website, (not counting house calls) he works 20 hours weekly in the office. I do that in 2 days!!!!

And if you've followed my posting over the years, you will have read that I'm in a large group practice with multiple offices (Kidsfeet has visited and can confirm those FACTS). Additionally, I haven't done houscalls in years.

But, if you want to think I'm Dr. Horl, be my guest. I hope Dr. Horl isn't offended by your accusation!
 
Only 10 hours a day PADPM! You've been slipping good sir! :D
 
SuperFeisty said:
Only 10 hours a day PADPM! You've been slipping good sir! :D
Click to expand...

Yep, I've been slacking. Monday I left my home at 7 am and got home at 6:30 pm, Tuesday I left my home at 5:45 am and got home at 6:30 pm and today I left my home at 6:45 am and got home at 6 pm.

I'd better get my act in gear and start pickin' up the slack.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

pipetman
match and scramble
2
Replies
54
Views
11K
AZ25
A
pipetman
did you scramble?
Replies
2
Views
2K
Feli
Feli
SirSeanly
Grammar Goose Eggs, or Edu-ma-cation for those Too Embarrassed to Ask
Replies
1
Views
954
Feli
Feli
J
Ready for the Match/Scramble?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Ezj391
E
Top