AAMC calls for more federally-supported residency positions

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pinkpuppy9

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So this popped up on my newsfeed just now. I'm not too familiar with the goings-on in human medicine, but I'm curious to hear what you guys think and have a discussion about it.

I know a handful of first-year med students and a lot of pre-med students, and all I hear them talk about is how they need more jobs, how there is a lack of funding for training, etc.

The context of the position is vague....I don't know if they want hospitals to take on more students, or if they want hospitals without residency programs to create them. I talked to the pre-med friend who posted it, and she says the Affordable Care Act is leading to a shortage of doctors since more people are able to actually go to the doctor for their needs now.

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Wait, there's federal funding for residency programs in human med? Does vet med have that too? My first thought was (selfishly, I admit) that human med residencies shouldn't get MORE federal funding when we vet med doesn't have ANY.

(Yes I am feeling particularly grumpy and poor today.)
 
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http://action.aamc.org/page/s/add-your-name?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

So this popped up on my newsfeed just now. I'm not too familiar with the goings-on in human medicine, but I'm curious to hear what you guys think and have a discussion about it.

I know a handful of first-year med students and a lot of pre-med students, and all I hear them talk about is how they need more jobs, how there is a lack of funding for training, etc.

The context of the position is vague....I don't know if they want hospitals to take on more students, or if they want hospitals without residency programs to create them. I talked to the pre-med friend who posted it, and she says the Affordable Care Act is leading to a shortage of doctors since more people are able to actually go to the doctor for their needs now.

Human Doc here.... also happen to be pretty involved with this very issue. Let me try to get ahead of the story here before everyone comes and mucks it up with the usual "SDN truth" (which is to say 85% correct and 15% frequently repeated complete fallacy).

So yes, human medicine residency is indeed federal funded. Its used as a carrot to make sure big state-of-the-art hospitals continue to accept medicare and medicaid patients. Residents are free* labor and hospitals want* us. But the government only gives a small amount of money per resident as "direct" payment. AKA the amount we are guaranteed to bring in. The rest is created using a complex alorithm that basically breaks down to "if you treat more medicare/aid patients you will get more money for each resident". Since the hospital generally loses money on each medicare/aid patient it becomes very fuzzy math, but thats its own matter. The system was created to make hospitals take more poor and elderly patients. But it worked *too* well and in the 1990's the government said "well F that" and they declared that every hospital that had ANY residents was now forbidden from getting any more money to fund new resident spots. The caveat being that any hospital that didnt already have any residents by that time were the hospitals that either 1) didnt want them 2) didnt want medicare/aid patients or 3) was too small to justify a program. Now some of those hospitals have left those three categories over the last 20 years, but not that many.

*once you get enough payment from the government. We create a lot of inefficiency, redundancy, and wasted resources from being 'on-the-job training' at all times and requiring our bosses to work slowly with us and double check all of our work when they could be doing our jobs in 1/3 of the time.

So thats the genesis of the "residency freeze". Very few residencies come from other funding sources. Saudi Arabia funds somewhere around 50 training spots a year for Saudi graduates. A small number of research-heavy residencies are funded by pharmaceutical programs. Most pediatric programs are technically from a seperate pool of money that is not frozen (but has its own limitations) and hospitals in the rural midwest can open up family practice programs if they dotn already have one.

Except there is an issue the AAMC is well aware of but doesnt like to talk about. The number of spots available is somewhere around 2,500 LARGER than the number of applicants from the US. We have so many extra spots funded by the government that we give them away by the thousand to people trained in other countries. The argument the medical students and AAMC make is that more "types" need to be created and in "new areas". Except types is code word for "anything but primary care" and "new areas" is code for "as close as possible to the old areas such as the east coast, the west coast, and chicago". The unfilled spots are mostly primary care in middle america, and many are at smaller hospitals. Its completely political suicide to not say that you want to form more primary care in rural areas.... but no one actually wants to do that except for people with public health degrees. So med students use carefully crafted rhetoric to avoid admitting reality: that we feel entitled to our cush surgical subspecialties in major cities and we look down our nose so much at IM and FP in North Dakota that we act like these programs dont even exist. There is even spectacular data that the next entering class of medical students (entering 2015, class of 2019) will outnumber the amount of residency spots with americans alone. Except it makes some fun math decisions like measuring all US graduates (MD or DO) but only measuring ACGME (aka MD) residency spots, and presumes a constant growth of school size that we didnt quite hit, and presumes that no new programs will open in pediatrics, or rural medicine, or from qualified resident-virgin hospitals (none of which are sound assumptions as they happen all the time, though in small numbers).

Also anyone blaming PPACA (obamacare) for this is out of their mind. This problem predated Obama and has been debated the exact same way since the early 2000's. If anything PPACA actualy makes those "looked down upon" primary care spots *finally* a little worthwhile as it does bring up primary care incomes and drives more decision making (read as: $$) through the primary physician in most exchange programs. Now the original PPACA had policies in place to actually loosen the restrictions on expanding residency, but those got trimmed out when the republicans dug their feet in and demanded wholesale elimination of entire programs within PPACA, programs that would fund the ability to expand residency. I clearly have a political preference, so let me be fair and say someone of a different pursuasion would say they cut programs that would take from the taxpayer and that medical students got the short end of the stick when their funding dissappeared is the lefts fault for trying to fund improvements through money collecting programs rather than cost cutting programs.

Anyway. Yes. We get funded though CMS (centers for medicare/medicaid services). We also are drafted into our residency through a clandestine system of secret ballots controlled by the federal government. So they should fund us if they want to eliminate the ability for us to actually attempt to get residency positions on our own merit, or know what options we have for our future, rather than the option they tell us we have.
 
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Thank you! I feel informed now! So if there are more open spots than there are students to fill them, why are current med students apparently under the impression that they are going to be hard-pressed to get a residency?
 
Thank you! I feel informed now! So if there are more open spots than there are students to fill them, why are current med students apparently under the impression that they are going to be hard-pressed to get a residency?

Id figure 65% of them just believe the same misinformation constantly spewed here without checking the stats and they truly believe that. They see that 1-2% of graduates dont match and dont do any more research as to why except to say "and school size is growing so that 1-2% will grow!!". They dont understand the structure of the problem. The other 35% understand how it really works and are worried about getting a residency *theyd be happy in*. We're all from a generation of people who all got medals and feel entitled to something good even if we finish last. So we all feel entitled to a program that will be in an area we like and in a field we can enjoy and so these small midwest programs are almost ignored when we make rhetoric because it shoots ourselves in the foot to ask for more spots in things we like when there are thousands of spots in things we wouldnt, especially since the federal government would prefer us (US students) to go to those spots.
 
Id figure 65% of them just believe the same misinformation constantly spewed here without checking the stats and they truly believe that. They see that 1-2% of graduates dont match and dont do any more research as to why except to say "and school size is growing so that 1-2% will grow!!". They dont understand the structure of the problem. The other 35% understand how it really works and are worried about getting a residency *theyd be happy in*. We're all from a generation of people who all got medals and feel entitled to something good even if we finish last. So we all feel entitled to a program that will be in an area we like and in a field we can enjoy and so these small midwest programs are almost ignored when we make rhetoric because it shoots ourselves in the foot to ask for more spots in things we like when there are thousands of spots in things we wouldnt, especially since the federal government would prefer us (US students) to go to those spots.
Where can I read more about the fact that there are more residencies than American students? I'd like to show my friend this info.
 
Welp, asked my 'friend' if she had ever read anything about overseas students getting a lot of the US residency positions and proceeded to get attacked about it. Gotta love Facebook...

http://fortune.com/2013/04/01/medical-students-confront-a-residency-black-hole/ So what about this article is correct, then? I'm still trying to understand why there is such a big hoopla over this if what you say about 2,500 spots being given away is true. Why doesn't anyone have anything to say about that?
 
Welp, asked my 'friend' if she had ever read anything about overseas students getting a lot of the US residency positions and proceeded to get attacked about it. Gotta love Facebook...

http://fortune.com/2013/04/01/medical-students-confront-a-residency-black-hole/ So what about this article is correct, then? I'm still trying to understand why there is such a big hoopla over this if what you say about 2,500 spots being given away is true. Why doesn't anyone have anything to say about that?

The article above does a lot of wordsmithing. Using "American Graduates", "People", "Graduates", and "applicants" exactly in ways that help make their point.... since the words are not interchangeable but the sound like they are. Its doubtful the reporter noticed the word smithing in the quotes.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

That is all you need to know. That is the actual raw data from the match itself. There are 25,061 spots in the formal match (really closer to 27,000 if you count urology, ophthalmology and the armed forces, all of which function outside of the match itself. and there are 2988 AOA residencies, which are also outside of the match). So we are talking between 25,000 and 30,000 spots depending on what math you want to use. There are only ~17,000 US MD graduates a year. And another 4,500 DO graduates. So if you include EVERY SINGLE u.s. graduate you're only at 21,500. Which is 8,500 spots shy of the number of actual residency spots there are. Even if you chip away as best as you can by adding in re-applicants (1,600) you still dont get anywhere close to saturation.

Let me preface this next statement with: "Exceptions occur but they are rare and they are called exceptions for a reason". When you're dealing with the matching system here, there is a clear and undeniable teiring. US graduates from MD schools go where they want and have no reason to not match somewhere *even if* they screw up their scores UNLESS they make a sh***y match list or they choose to only want to go to a very tiny number of places and would rather burn a year then go somewhere they dont prefer. DO graduates can go almost anywhere they want and have no reason not to match unless they screw up their scores or fit one of the two above categories. Anyone trained abroad is basically treated like leftovers and allowed to fill in the 8,500 spots that are "left over" after the US graduates have their fill. So when the article above lists 26,000 "people" it is combining the US graduates and the "second class citizens" together to allow the math to look scarier while ignoring that any unmatched US graduate would be taken in a heartbeat by any open program by they either screwed up their match list or chose to take a year off if they couldnt get what they want.

example 1: Donnie is a graduate from NYU. He felt that his sh** didnt stink and only applied to major NYC hospitals. He interviewed at 5 hospitals and felt confident only ranking 5. He was "that good". Everyone told him most people rank >10 places. But he didnt care. He didnt make the cut at any of his five hospitals and had "no match". Now as the NRMP guards their "SOAP" (the post-match program to fill remaining open spots) like a national secret, so we dont know hjow many spots are open, but lets say its a few thousand. because it is a few thousand. Donnie gets a list of a few thousnd hospitals which would *almost all* die to have him and take him in a heartbeat over the foreign graduate (generalizing). If he doesnt match its either because 1) He said to himself 'These options are beneath me, I just screwed up my rank list and should rank better next year' or 2) 'I only want to go to these elite NYC hospitals, so I'll do research at one for a year and earn credit in their eyes'

So when you have a clear "class system" and thousands of open spots; if someone from a US school doesnt match its because they want to or they have a criminal record. But when you want to make an argument that we need more spots, you cant admit that there is either a 17,000-25,000 imbalance or a 21,500-30,000 imbalance. It wont fly. You have to play with numbers. You argue on behalf of the american student, but you count the foreign graduate who "fill in" open spots when you make your argument. The federal government is paying for these spots and (internationally) even the worst one is highly desired. So every last spot gets filled. But its disingenuous to combine the US numbers and the total numbers in order to make a point.... but we all do it.
 
The article above does a lot of wordsmithing. Using "American Graduates", "People", "Graduates", and "applicants" exactly in ways that help make their point.... since the words are not interchangeable but the sound like they are. Its doubtful the reporter noticed the word smithing in the quotes.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

That is all you need to know. That is the actual raw data from the match itself. There are 25,061 spots in the formal match (really closer to 27,000 if you count urology, ophthalmology and the armed forces, all of which function outside of the match itself. and there are 2988 AOA residencies, which are also outside of the match). So we are talking between 25,000 and 30,000 spots depending on what math you want to use. There are only ~17,000 US MD graduates a year. And another 4,500 DO graduates. So if you include EVERY SINGLE u.s. graduate you're only at 21,500. Which is 8,500 spots shy of the number of actual residency spots there are. Even if you chip away as best as you can by adding in re-applicants (1,600) you still dont get anywhere close to saturation.

Let me preface this next statement with: "Exceptions occur but they are rare and they are called exceptions for a reason". When you're dealing with the matching system here, there is a clear and undeniable teiring. US graduates from MD schools go where they want and have no reason to not match somewhere *even if* they screw up their scores UNLESS they make a sh***y match list or they choose to only want to go to a very tiny number of places and would rather burn a year then go somewhere they dont prefer. DO graduates can go almost anywhere they want and have no reason not to match unless they screw up their scores or fit one of the two above categories. Anyone trained abroad is basically treated like leftovers and allowed to fill in the 8,500 spots that are "left over" after the US graduates have their fill. So when the article above lists 26,000 "people" it is combining the US graduates and the "second class citizens" together to allow the math to look scarier while ignoring that any unmatched US graduate would be taken in a heartbeat by any open program by they either screwed up their match list or chose to take a year off if they couldnt get what they want.

example 1: Donnie is a graduate from NYU. He felt that his sh** didnt stink and only applied to major NYC hospitals. He interviewed at 5 hospitals and felt confident only ranking 5. He was "that good". Everyone told him most people rank >10 places. But he didnt care. He didnt make the cut at any of his five hospitals and had "no match". Now as the NRMP guards their "SOAP" (the post-match program to fill remaining open spots) like a national secret, so we dont know hjow many spots are open, but lets say its a few thousand. because it is a few thousand. Donnie gets a list of a few thousnd hospitals which would *almost all* die to have him and take him in a heartbeat over the foreign graduate (generalizing). If he doesnt match its either because 1) He said to himself 'These options are beneath me, I just screwed up my rank list and should rank better next year' or 2) 'I only want to go to these elite NYC hospitals, so I'll do research at one for a year and earn credit in their eyes'

So when you have a clear "class system" and thousands of open spots; if someone from a US school doesnt match its because they want to or they have a criminal record. But when you want to make an argument that we need more spots, you cant admit that there is either a 17,000-25,000 imbalance or a 21,500-30,000 imbalance. It wont fly. You have to play with numbers. You argue on behalf of the american student, but you count the foreign graduate who "fill in" open spots when you make your argument. The federal government is paying for these spots and (internationally) even the worst one is highly desired. So every last spot gets filled. But its disingenuous to combine the US numbers and the total numbers in order to make a point.... but we all do it.
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to explain this to me! I prefer reading actual sources as opposed to news articles on the subject. So is the AAMC just trying to get more funding send their way? If the numbers are so obvious, what is the AAMC's angle?
 
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to explain this to me! I prefer reading actual sources as opposed to news articles on the subject. So is the AAMC just trying to get more funding send their way? If the numbers are so obvious, what is the AAMC's angle?

Easy. The Aamc as well as the acgme and AMA have been tasked with modifying the training to meet the demand. It's very questionable if the way to meet the demand is training more physicians, or if it's simply a realignment of the ratios different fields are trained in. But increasing the number of FP and IM spots will only make the aamc's constituency unhappy as they want specialty fields. That demand is so strong the article mentions it. Tons of primary care spots have been liquidated to free that funding up for more desirable, but less necessary, spots.

If all the interested groups are going to succeed in meeting future training goals without alienating their base, they need more wholesale spots. Nothing short of saying the spots ran out will get congress to budge. It's easy to fudge the numbers. And when you have 68000 (17k x 4) well educated people willing to echo your fuzzy math, it becomes very easy to get your point taken seriously. Nothing said is untrue... they just change the denominator rapidly and unless you stop and do research yourself the math sounds convincing because you forget the "total number" keeps changing.
 
Wait, there's federal funding for residency programs in human med? Does vet med have that too? My first thought was (selfishly, I admit) that human med residencies shouldn't get MORE federal funding when we vet med doesn't have ANY.

(Yes I am feeling particularly grumpy and poor today.)

Many lab animal residencies get NIH funding. Dunno about any others.
 
Easy. The Aamc as well as the acgme and AMA have been tasked with modifying the training to meet the demand. It's very questionable if the way to meet the demand is training more physicians, or if it's simply a realignment of the ratios different fields are trained in. But increasing the number of FP and IM spots will only make the aamc's constituency unhappy as they want specialty fields. That demand is so strong the article mentions it. Tons of primary care spots have been liquidated to free that funding up for more desirable, but less necessary, spots.

If all the interested groups are going to succeed in meeting future training goals without alienating their base, they need more wholesale spots. Nothing short of saying the spots ran out will get congress to budge. It's easy to fudge the numbers. And when you have 68000 (17k x 4) well educated people willing to echo your fuzzy math, it becomes very easy to get your point taken seriously. Nothing said is untrue... they just change the denominator rapidly and unless you stop and do research yourself the math sounds convincing because you forget the "total number" keeps changing.
Things sound extremely complicated....

@that redhead besides the fact that some lab animal spots are funded by NIH like you mentioned, where do other residencies typically get funding? Is it the government, or is it donations to the school, or what? I don't know anything about what funds veterinary residencies. Seeing as how I'd like to get one, I feel like I should know these things lol
 
Things sound extremely complicated....

@that redhead besides the fact that some lab animal spots are funded by NIH like you mentioned, where do other residencies typically get funding? Is it the government, or is it donations to the school, or what? I don't know anything about what funds veterinary residencies. Seeing as how I'd like to get one, I feel like I should know these things lol

Basically you can construct a impending apocalypse if you have 1) good number smithing and 2) actual outrage, even if its misplaced.

American students are angry they have to go to Montana to train, which would be incredbly entitled and normally be ignored if there wasnt good number smithing to manufacture a controversy. There needs to be more human physician residencies, but it has nothing to do with supply shortage and has everything to do with how lopsided the distribution is both geographically and by specialty.
 
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