ABI (All But Internship)

[PositivelySkewed]

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to see how people fared in that limbo stage where you have defended your dissertation but have yet to complete your internship. I'm currently on internship right now and defended right before starting. All other class requirements are complete. It's a weird stage to be in-- I feel like in any other academic field you'd be considered a doctor at this point.

I'd never purposefully misrepresent myself as a "doctor" to clients or in a professional sense (like on a CV). I fully realize I'm not a doctor until I complete internship, walk, and a degree is conferred. However, at a pub or among friends, did anyone in this phase ever use the title? Or get use title for mundane purposes (like on a credit card or on airline tickets)? I feel like I need some sort of positive reinforcement after the dissertation defense. Weird stage to be in.
-Thanks,
Positively Skewed

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[AcronymAllergy]

Personally, I didn't use it until my degree was officially listed as "conferred" on my transcript; before that was premature, at least in my mind. And I don't think I've ever used the title outside of work (other than if a friend is light-heartedly giving me crap about it).

I can understand the positive reinforcement thing, but honestly, you'll come to realize that it's ultimately not that big of a deal. After my defense, I mostly focused on the fact that I didn't need to worry about that anymore, and then I turned my attention to both enjoying the remainder of internship and prepping for postdoc.

 

[erg923]

My friends didn't care if I was a "doctor" or not, so I never never compelled to do that.

I wound also venture to guess that the woman taking your airline reservation does not care if your a doctor, no matter how much you might want her to.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Hmm... I did my oral defense during my internship in July and graduated in August. Faculty and students Congratulated me as Dr. Once I finished my oral defense.

It is weird or confusing but on some internships in hospitals or universities they have Dr, ? On the ID name tag for interns. On my internship badge it had my title as PhD Intern as they did not have PsyD intern as one of the classification for employees. I was the only PsyD student in my cohort of four interns and the other three interns did not like me having PhD intern on my badge.

One perk I discovered where I work is I get free food, physician parking space, and I work a flex schedule since I have to do quick evals on short notice for insurance/discharge planning.

Applying for postdoctoral will be much easier for you as your department chair will write a letter stating you have completed ABI as most postdoctoral positions stipulate doctoral degree completed.

 

[PositivelySkewed]

I assiduously correct clients when they refer to me as doctor. I probably am so conservative about it at work that I just feel like I've earned the right to let my guard down in non work settings.

 

[erg923]

It is weird or confusing but on some internships in hospitals or universities they have Dr, ? On the ID name tag for interns. On my internship badge it had my title as PhD Intern as they did not have PsyD intern as one of the classification for employees. I was the only PsyD student in my cohort of four interns and the other three interns did not like me having PhD intern on my badge.

One perk I discovered where I work is I get free food, physician parking space, and I work a flex schedule since I have to do quick evals on short notice for insurance/discharge planning.

I see. Did you take appopriate/resonable steps to correct your ID badge as the ethics code requires.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In academia, there's definitely a tradition of informally awarding the "doctor" title once the dissertation is successfully defended. However, this mostly applies to (and seemingly arose in) non-clinical/counseling/school psychology fields in which a pre-doctoral internship is not required. Thus, with these folks, the awarding of the degree is more truly a formality than it is with us.

My take has always been that until all degree requirements are met (which includes completion of internship), you haven't graduated, and therefore are not yet a "doctor." I'd probably be fine with someone who'd completed internship and their dissertation, but who for administrative reasons had not yet been conferred a degree, calling themselves "doctor." However, I can also imagine how this might play out as misrepresentation in the extremely unlikely event that the person were ever deposed/subpoenaed or brought in front of an ethics board. This latter point is one of the reasons I didn't refer to myself as such until I had my degree in hand (in addition to wanting to be absolutely certain I wasn't misleading patients).

 

[smalltownpsych]

It is my understanding that it is unethical to use a title that you have not earned. It doesn't matter how close you are. I had more difficulty with waiting to use the term psychologist because people were always confused by my status. Now they are just confused about whether I am a psychiatrist or psychologist. Explaining who we are and what we do is part of the challenge of being a good psychologist. It's called informed consent.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It is my understanding that it is unethical to use a title that you have not earned. It doesn't matter how close you are. I had more difficulty with waiting to use the term psychologist because people were always confused by my status. Now they are just confused about whether I am a psychiatrist or psychologist. Explaining who we are and what we do is part of the challenge of being a good psychologist. It's called informed consent.

And to the bolded portion, I actually still refrain from referring to myself as a psychologist despite being licensed; given that my formal title is "postdoctoral fellow," and given that this is the capacity in which I'm functioning, that's what I go with (in addition to providing the name of my supervisor).

In the end, my take is always just to be as transparent as possible with patients.

 

[smalltownpsych]

And to the bolded portion, I actually still refrain from referring to myself as a psychologist despite being licensed; given that my formal title is "postdoctoral fellow," and given that this is the capacity in which I'm functioning, that's what I go with (in addition to providing the name of my supervisor).

In the end, my take is always just to be as transparent as possible with patients.

I would think that would depend on the context. In other words, you are a psychologist since you are licensed, but you are not a neuropsychologist since you are still in your fellowship. The potential for misrepresentation would be higher when working with patients in a neuropsychological context, but less so in informal settings such as with friedns or family who are still probably confused as to what you do anyway. My parents were just visiting my office and my mom was surprised that I had testing materials to administer psychological assessments. She said, "I thought you needed special training for that." My response was, "Yes. It's called a doctorate in clinical psychology!"

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

And to the bolded portion, I actually still refrain from referring to myself as a psychologist despite being licensed; given that my formal title is "postdoctoral fellow," and given that this is the capacity in which I'm functioning, that's what I go with (in addition to providing the name of my supervisor).

In the end, my take is always just to be as transparent as possible with patients.

This is the correct approach to the scenario. In a formal supervision relationship there is an explicit obligation of the trainee to follow the direction of the supervisor…even if they are independently licensed because they are practicing under the purview of the supervisor. This is in contrast to a consultative relationship with a colleague or more senior person, where the person can make their own decision because they are practicing only under their license. It gets a bit dicier when the consultation is with a superior, but the same licensure implications are held, as the clinician is responsible for their actions as an independently licensed professional. Whether they choose to follow the direction of their boss is an administrative decision, as the loss/sanction of licensure is on the clinician and not on the superior.

ps. The title of "psychologist" is governed by each state. In most states it is based on having a full and unrestricted license, though in some states they'll have differentiating terms to split out a restricted or limited license (e.g. state of Michigan) from an unrestricted license. Other states will use modifying terms for the practice of school psychology or similar. The title of "neuropsychologist" is (unfortunately) only limited in 1-2 states. I believe Louisiana restricts the use of the title and Minnesota restricts who can be reimbursed for neuropsychological services…which I believe requires boarding of the individual.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would think that would depend on the context. In other words, you are a psychologist since you are licensed, but you are not a neuropsychologist since you are still in your fellowship. The potential for misrepresentation would be higher when working with patients in a neuropsychological context, but less so in informal settings such as with friedns or family who are still probably confused as to what you do anyway. My parents were just visiting my office and my mom was surprised that I had testing materials to administer psychological assessments. She said, "I thought you needed special training for that." My response was, "Yes. It's called a doctorate in clinical psychology!"

Good point. If a friend or family member asked, "are you a psychologist," I wouldn't really have any problems telling them that I am. But as you've said, and as T4C pointed out, in the context of my current position, I always describe myself as a fellow (even when working in a non-neuropsychological capacity) and identify my supervisor, given that I'm working under their license.

If I were working under my own license, such as if I were doing some sort of outside consulting, then I'd identify myself as a psychologist (but not a neuropsychologist until finishing fellowship, which is just about done...woo).

 

[Sendtrees]

The positive reinforcement is that you successfully defended your dissertation and got an internship in spite of the massive field-wide disaster that's preventing too many of your peers from ever being able to use the title "doctor." Hang in there just a little longer and you'll be able to impress the airlines.

 

[oathkeeper]

do psychologists even put dr down when buying airline tickets (or the equivalent, i don't know checking into a hotel?)

 

[AcronymAllergy]

do psychologists even put dr down when buying airline tickets (or the equivalent, i don't know checking into a hotel?)

I don't see why you couldn't; just a matter of personal preference.

 

[erg923]

do psychologists even put dr down when buying airline tickets (or the equivalent, i don't know checking into a hotel?)

I even make my son refer to me as Dr. Dad.

 

[smalltownpsych]

lol My nephews and nieces call me Dr. Uncle Chris I like it because it is a term of endearment and they do look up to me.
My brother has a bout ten different intonations of Dr. that he uses for me, most of them somewhat sarcastic.
I'm thinking my step-kids wouldn't go for the whole Dr. Dad thing.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

do psychologists even put dr down when buying airline tickets (or the equivalent, i don't know checking into a hotel?)

It seems inversely proportional to the quality of the degree. Seems like the Argosy folks I know use "Dr." on credit cards and checks, but folks with more legit degrees feel secure enough not to use it in social settings.*

*SDN is not a social setting.

 

[Pragma]

It seems inversely proportional to the quality of the degree. Seems like the Argosy folks I know use "Dr." on credit cards and checks, but folks with more legit degrees feel secure enough not to use it in social settings.*

*SDN is not a social setting.

Plus one to that!

 

[smalltownpsych]

On credit cards and checks? That would be kind of silly if you ask me. When filling out forms that ask I do select the Dr. option and not the Mr. option as that seems appropriate. I don't feel the need to hide my status or title, except when sitting next to a person on the plane who might want to tell me their litany of woes! My wife was sitting in row behind me on the plane once and made the mistake of telling person next to her what I did. She was the one that got to listen to it all. I was real careful not to turn around and was devoting all my attention to the free airline magazine.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I use it on forms, but not so much in social interactions. I made the mistake of saying what I did when the person in the seat next to me on a flight asked once. She just wanted to talk about her father who had a stroke for 2 hours when all I wanted to do was read my book. From now on, I'm an actuary on flights.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I keep a strict "no eye contact or hint of socializing" policy while on a plane. The only thing worse than a crying kid on a flight is a Chatty Cathy in an adjacent seat. I usually bring work to do (e.g. powerpoint presentations, manuscripts to review, etc), which works well. If someone asks what I do I say, "research"…which I make sound really boring. -Grumpy Cat

 

[smalltownpsych]

On the other hand i have had some good conversations on the plane because of what I do. I remember one in particular with a college student who was pursuing a psychology degree that was quite enjoyable. In all honesty, it probably didn't hurt that she was YAVIS

 

[futureapppsy2]

On the other hand i have had some good conversations on the plane because of what I do. I remember one in particular with a college student who was pursuing a psychology degree that was quite enjoyable. In all honesty, it probably didn't hurt that she was YAVIS

YAVIS?

 

[WisNeuro]

Young Attractive Very Intelligent Successful.

 

[463951]

I have also stopped telling people I am studying psychology while on a plane. For various reasons. When I mention forensic psychology, they say, "like CSI?" or they ask me if I am an FBI profiler like on "Criminal Minds." I do tell them that I know an FBI profiler, and that it is not anywhere near as exciting as the show makes it seem. They always look disappointed by this. I'm like really? You really thought they had their own private jet??

Of course there are the people that say, "I have a brother, I think there might be something wrong with him..." So now, I just say I am a secretary.

I think the worst is when somebody on a plane says, "Oh, I majored in psychology in undergrad, I understand what you do!" No. You don't.

 

[erg923]

YAVIS?

Holy ****. Is that really what the kids are sayin these days?

 

[oathkeeper]

I think the worst is when somebody on a plane says, "Oh, I majored in psychology in undergrad, I understand what you do!" No. You don't.

I did college counseling a few years ago and the psychology majors were the worst

 

[Icculus8]

YAVIS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavis

I had never heard of the term either so I had to google it. I had no idea this was a common enough idea to have its own acronym and wikipedia page.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Holy ****. Is that really what the kids are sayin these days?

I think it actually started back in the 1960's, surprisingly enough. I might've heard the term once in grad school, so like Icculus, I had to google it as well. The concept behind it is of course a very familiar one, though, at least.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Are you guys implying that I am old and using antiquated acronyms?

I already get enough flak from the adolescents about my lack of being cool, chill, hip, with it, phat or whatever they're saying these days. I thought I would be safe from it here. In my defense, I learned it from really, really old professors. I swear.

 

[sockit]

never mind!

edit: wow - HOUND, for the opposite of YAVIS - yikes!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Are you guys implying that I am old and using antiquated acronyms?

I already get enough flak from the adolescents about my lack of being cool, chill, hip, with it, phat or whatever they're saying these days. I thought I would be safe from it here. In my defense, I learned it from really, really old professors. I swear.

Haha I wonder if it's maybe just a regional thing, and/or more frequently with particular lab "lineages." I think it might've originated in the midwest, so maybe folks from there and/or who trained with folks from there are more familiar with it?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I heard it on the West Coast but a lot of my professors in undergrad seemed to love acronyms like NIMBY and YAVIS. I used to think sometimes during their windy, somewhat idealistic lectures, "...and we change these phenomena, how? Anyone...Anyone? Bueller?"

 

[463951]

NIMBY? Also, originally from the West Coast, have never heard of any of these. Sorry smalltownpsych.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

NIMBY? Also, originally from the West Coast, have never heard of any of these. Sorry smalltownpsych.

Not In My Back Yard, I believe. At least that's the variant I've heard before.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yup. That's the dynamic that prevents community mental health from being in the community. Lots of people (see armchair liberals or compassionate conservative) support the idea of providing services for the mentally ill, so long as it is Not In My BackYard.