About to exit the military.

[Andrew N]

First my background..

So in December/January, I'll be exiting the Marine Corps after 5 years of active duty service. I have about 2 years left in an undergrad in software engineering that I'm doing online.. and as soon as I get out of the military here shortly.. I'm going to start the pre-reqs at the local community college. 23 years old with a wife and 3 children. I have a job lined up as an avionics tech to support the family until I get into med school, and when I get into med school I intend on being apart of the local Air National Guard unit to cover medical insurance for the family (one weekend a month obligation, but I've spoken with the unit commander and they're very flexible even with that given my prior service), and then use grants/scholarships/loans as supplemental income since 100% of tuition and rent/mortgage will be covered via my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill.

Now that all of THAT is out on the table, I'm going to ask my question. It's obvious I'm going to be more on the non-traditional applicant since I go to school online and work full time - but what can I do to make myself more competitive? Since I'm limited to evenings and weekends for "extra" stuff to put in my application, what sort of research, interning or volunteer work is out there that would take place around those times? I'm assuming the majority of this section of the forum is made up of traditional college students on the pre-med track, and I'm sure you all get a lot of advice from seniors, internships and stuff like that - stuff I don't have easy access to. Is there anything I'm missing that I need to get started on now in order to have a chance at med school?

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[askamsky51]

Hey there. Former Marine here, myself.

So to start off I want to remind you that this is a marathon, not a sprint. The marathon is never ending, even once you're in school. Get comfy! I didn't go through the process with a family, so hopefully someone who did can chime in.

I'll start with the basics, which may seem obvious to you--but I'm going to start there anyhow.

MAJOR things to always focus on:

1. GPA (both science GPA and cumulative GPA) ideally >3.5

You'll have to get more advice from a legit source (one of the AdCom's) about online classes and whatnot. Some schools won't take credit from online courses, but that may only be prereq's. I have no idea so I won't speculate. I will say that when I interviewed on the east coast -- one of the schools I interviewed at gave me some crap about going to a community college at first. They kept referring to it as junior college which annoyed me to no end. We don't use that term where I'm from. It sounded degrading, and it's really common.

2. MCAT. Don't take it until you're ready. You're a ways off from it I would guess, but just keep these in mind.

Numbers are the one tool administrators get to use to access your "readiness."It sucks that they have to access you solely on numbers that may or may not represent your abilities. It never goes away though. STEP 1 in medical school is the same way for residency.

As far as extra curricular go... Knowing nothing about your MOS I would venture that you have some great experiences that diversify you from other applicants. Don't worry too much about things. Seriously.

1. If you are interested in research, do it. If not, I really don't think it's the end of the world--unless you're looking to go to an Ivy League. I didn't do research. I hated it.

2. Clinical experience is huge. Shadow MD's/DO's or any health profession, really. Not just for applications but because it will actually give you clinical insight. Find as many opportunities as you can to have meaningful patient interactions. I'll go more into things in volunteering. Though there are lots of night and weekend opportunities.

3. Volunteer. Volunteering is easy. I would find a local hospital and contact their volunteer dept to see what they have available. Avoid big universities because every premed in the world will be gunning for every last volunteer position. The volunteering you do doesn't have to be at a sexy location. Just do something you find interesting and try to stick it out for a year. I volunteered in the emergency room on Sunday nights stocking shelves and giving coloring books to bored kids. It was actually a really great experience, and things like emergency rooms can never have too many hands. Nights are also when they are generally hurting for help.

I would try and get a mix of clinical and non-clinical volunteering. Given that you have children, maybe you can find something that the whole family can be involved in. Take the gang to a nursing home once/week and visit with people who don't have families. "Adopt" an elder, if you will.

I know you have an avionics job lined up, but if that falls though I have what I consider to be an excellent alternate idea (that I wish I would have done). Some of my classmates were medics in the army -- rather than get their associates/transfer degree and transfer to a university, they got their associates degree in paramedics. They used that to moonlight while going to university and finishing their bachelors. Not only does it give you HUGE clinic experience, but you'll be miles ahead of your classmates when it comes to clinical rotations. I really wish I would have gone that route.

Hope some of this helps. Feel free to hit me up if you have any other questions.

 

[deleted480308]

Shy of the how to get there advice I'd like throw out a few more things since you'll alread have some years in....

If you want to do guard, consider going army because they have a good program for med students mdssp that the air doesn't have

If you think you might like to make a run at active retirement check out navy hscp which lets you clock active years while in school

Just remember whatever you do academically, you need A's. A semester of all Bs doesn't help you. You can do this if you plan

 

[Andrew N]

Hey there. Former Marine here, myself.

So to start off I want to remind you that this is a marathon, not a sprint. The marathon is never ending, even once you're in school. Get comfy! I didn't go through the process with a family, so hopefully someone who did can chime in.

I'll start with the basics, which may seem obvious to you--but I'm going to start there anyhow.

MAJOR things to always focus on:

1. GPA (both science GPA and cumulative GPA) ideally >3.5

You'll have to get more advice from a legit source (one of the AdCom's) about online classes and whatnot. Some schools won't take credit from online courses, but that may only be prereq's. I have no idea so I won't speculate. I will say that when I interviewed on the east coast -- one of the schools I interviewed at gave me some crap about going to a community college at first. They kept referring to it as junior college which annoyed me to no end. We don't use that term where I'm from. It sounded degrading, and it's really common.

2. MCAT. Don't take it until you're ready. You're a ways off from it I would guess, but just keep these in mind.

Numbers are the one tool administrators get to use to access your "readiness."It sucks that they have to access you solely on numbers that may or may not represent your abilities. It never goes away though. STEP 1 in medical school is the same way for residency.

As far as extra curricular go... Knowing nothing about your MOS I would venture that you have some great experiences that diversify you from other applicants. Don't worry too much about things. Seriously.

1. If you are interested in research, do it. If not, I really don't think it's the end of the world--unless you're looking to go to an Ivy League. I didn't do research. I hated it.

2. Clinical experience is huge. Shadow MD's/DO's or any health profession, really. Not just for applications but because it will actually give you clinical insight. Find as many opportunities as you can to have meaningful patient interactions. I'll go more into things in volunteering. Though there are lots of night and weekend opportunities.

3. Volunteer. Volunteering is easy. I would find a local hospital and contact their volunteer dept to see what they have available. Avoid big universities because every premed in the world will be gunning for every last volunteer position. The volunteering you do doesn't have to be at a sexy location. Just do something you find interesting and try to stick it out for a year. I volunteered in the emergency room on Sunday nights stocking shelves and giving coloring books to bored kids. It was actually a really great experience, and things like emergency rooms can never have too many hands. Nights are also when they are generally hurting for help.

I would try and get a mix of clinical and non-clinical volunteering. Given that you have children, maybe you can find something that the whole family can be involved in. Take the gang to a nursing home once/week and visit with people who don't have families. "Adopt" an elder, if you will.

I know you have an avionics job lined up, but if that falls though I have what I consider to be an excellent alternate idea (that I wish I would have done). Some of my classmates were medics in the army -- rather than get their associates/transfer degree and transfer to a university, they got their associates degree in paramedics. They used that to moonlight while going to university and finishing their bachelors. Not only does it give you HUGE clinic experience, but you'll be miles ahead of your classmates when it comes to clinical rotations. I really wish I would have gone that route.

Hope some of this helps. Feel free to hit me up if you have any other questions.

- My undergraduate will be from American Military University with first an A.S. in computer applications and a B.S. in information technology specializing in software engineering by the time I wrap it up. It's a for-profit online university geared specifically towards working with military members schedules.. but since it's for-profit it is sometimes thrown into the same category as University of Phoenix and schools like that, which I'm worried will effect me very negatively when applying - that's why I wanted to do all my pre-reqs at a local school. I picked the community college because it's closest, but by driving about 45 minutes I would be able to do it at University of North Carolina's Wilmington campus. I would hope that that would be enough to make the cut as long as my GPA from both schools is on point, which so far it is.

- You mentioned going Army medic to get clinical experience. I was considering doing this in the Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard, I think it's a better fit for me. My goals in life have always either been medicine, aviation or computer programming. I wish there was a way to combine them! I considered the pilot-physician route, but that would mean I would need to try and get a pilot slot BEFORE going to medical school, since the age cutoff for new pilot applicants is 28 and I'm nearly 24. Then maybe after flight school when I'm back to drilling one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year I could go to medical school. A lot of planning and prioritizing still needs to take place here... some details I'm still not clear about in regards to whether or not this would work.

Shy of the how to get there advice I'd like throw out a few more things since you'll alread have some years in....

If you want to do guard, consider going army because they have a good program for med students mdssp that the air doesn't have

If you think you might like to make a run at active retirement check out navy hscp which lets you clock active years while in school

Just remember whatever you do academically, you need A's. A semester of all Bs doesn't help you. You can do this if you plan

- After doing 5 years in the Marines on the enlisted side of the house, I really don't want to have to "owe" my time to anyone in order to get through medical school. I want to have more control over my future should I decide to go a different route on the back-end of medical school. I have 100% of my Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits available to pay for tuition and then I could cover COL via grants, loans and scholarships. I'm not opposed to serving as a doc in the military after I graduate, but I want to choose to do so at that time and not 4-5 years in advance. Just personal preference.

- I've received A's and B's on everything in my undergrad so far. I think I may have received a C a while back.. I can't remember, I'd have to look. Not all the pre-reqs are in my major, though, so I'm taking them separately at UNCW.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks for your service to our country. Semper Fi!

You don't realize that being a veteran already gives you a substantial means of standing out from other applicants.

For clinical volunteering, it doesn't always have to be in a hospital. Think clinics, hospice, nursing homes, Ronald McDonald House, Planned Parenthood, crisis hotlines.

For non-clinical volunteering, well, you're already shown your altruism by putting yourself in harm's way. But if you want extra, your local houses of worship should have plenty of opportunities.

Research is the thing most non-trads will get some slack for in niot having. But if you're interested in that, wait until classes start, and then inquire with our Faculty.

First my background..

So in December/January, I'll be exiting the Marine Corps after 5 years of active duty service. I have about 2 years left in an undergrad in software engineering that I'm doing online.. and as soon as I get out of the military here shortly.. I'm going to start the pre-reqs at the local community college. 23 years old with a wife and 3 children. I have a job lined up as an avionics tech to support the family until I get into med school, and when I get into med school I intend on being apart of the local Air National Guard unit to cover medical insurance for the family (one weekend a month obligation, but I've spoken with the unit commander and they're very flexible even with that given my prior service), and then use grants/scholarships/loans as supplemental income since 100% of tuition and rent/mortgage will be covered via my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill.

Now that all of THAT is out on the table, I'm going to ask my question. It's obvious I'm going to be more on the non-traditional applicant since I go to school online and work full time - but what can I do to make myself more competitive? Since I'm limited to evenings and weekends for "extra" stuff to put in my application, what sort of research, interning or volunteer work is out there that would take place around those times? I'm assuming the majority of this section of the forum is made up of traditional college students on the pre-med track, and I'm sure you all get a lot of advice from seniors, internships and stuff like that - stuff I don't have easy access to. Is there anything I'm missing that I need to get started on now in order to have a chance at med school?

 

[KaBoom'd]

I STRONGLY advise you to get away from American Military University. They are ripping you off and the school is a sham. AMU is lumped in with University of Phoenix and the like for good reason - they're the same thing, except I'd be willing to bet that University of Phoenix is more affordable. If you're staying in NC and taking pre-reqs in the NC state university system, why don't you look at a management information systems degree or something similar from one of the NC schools? NC State, ECU, possibly UNCW. Two big reasons:

1. An online for profit "university" is not what you want. AMU is absolutely terrible. Get a degree from a state school. Your degree will not specify whether it was online or face to face. I'm not sure if you enter class sections into AMCAS along with course numbers, but that is the only thing that differs. Instead of ECON 101 section 001, it's section R50 or something similar. PLEASE transfer to a state school ASAP. In all likelihood you can still accomplish this before the Fall term begins, if you hustle.

2. They are RIPPING YOU OFF. They have no brick and mortar institution and they're charging you $750 per 3 hour credit course. Have you looked to see how much a 3 hour online course is from a NC state school? 12 months ago it was $360-$370, and it is from a REAL university.

My source for all of this information is personal experience. I took classes at AMU on and off for a few years while on active duty, 15 credits online through ECU on active duty, and I'm now out and a full-time student face to face at a state school.

Good luck, man. A lot of what you initially brought up has been discussed at length either here or in the pre-allopathic forum, but I had to get a rant in about AMU.

 

[deleted480308]

If you're in NC....try http://www.campbell.edu/online/degrees/bachelor-programs. Doesn't have the stigma of a fully online college, incredibly military friendly, and we have our own Medical school (full disclosure, I'm biased here)...

 

[Andrew N]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll research some of the state institutions nearby. The closest one is UNCW and the next closest is ECU. By close I mean UNCW is 45 minutes to an hour away. Thing is, whatever I do HAS to be primarily online or at least accommodate working full time via evening or weekend classes - I can't afford to not work with a family of 5. I was considering putting my degree on hold and just doing the pre reqs and then applying, but we'll see. I was previously with Park University, which I actually enjoyed pretty well. They have a campus at Cherry Point. May just go back there, I need to see if they offer the pre reqs for medical school at the Cherry Point campus.

Edit: Was looking and Park doesn't offer the pre-reqs, however it does look like Campbell offers them on Camp Lejuene. They seem to have a bunch of odd program requirements though, like previously holding an MOS that is healthcare related. My best bet may be to get a full time job that goes from 7am-3pm somewhere near one of these bigger schools that I have an hour in any direction from Jacksonville and then take late afternoon and evening classes in a traditional setting.

 

[Andrew N]

Oorah devil! Welcome back to the outside.

#1 Do NOT get involved with the guard. It is a MASSIVE TIME SUCK and you've already earned all the benefits you rate.

Your pre-reqs will have labs. You can't do that online. If you're going to be in Havelock, go to Craven CC to start off, then I'd seriously consider ECU for follow-on stuff. Forget the on-base GI Bill money sponges. You're in hard-core country now. It is CRIMINAL how those companies are allowed to come in and pitch Marines out if their hard-earned education bebefit. They are snake-oil salesman and their degrees aren't worth the tiolet paper they're printed on.

Seriously brother, S-can the online garbage, down on deck.

What squadron(s) were you in? I was a VMU Marine (7314) at the Stumps and OIF-1 and trained VMU-2 at Cherry Point as a civ flight instructor in 07-08.

Haha I wish I was on the outside, I have 5 months left! Anyway, I suppose I should update my profile's location, I'm actually an hour south of there now in Jacksonville. I'm with HMLA-467 as an avionics CDI.

I think the community college down here (Coastal Carolina CC) has the courses w/ lab as well, so I wouldn't have to commute. I'm actually not going to touch my VA benefits until med school, I want it to pay for as much as med school as possible to minimize my debt since I'll be having to take out loans anyway to support the family. I'm going to use a combination of the Pell Grant and some other assets to finish everything undergrad. ECU and any of the schools that are 1+ hours away would be difficult, because since I'll be working full time the 2 hours worth of driving after work several days a week would get expensive and tiresome. If only I could land a good enough job closer to UNCW or ECU... or even Duke or UNCCH or NC State - really doesn't matter I just need to be closer so that I don't have to do everything at the community college. My avionics job that I have lined up at about 22/hr is in Havelock. Anything I got would have to be about that or more in order to move.

 

[KaBoom'd]

I'll play devil's advocate with the guard/reserve thing. I just separated a few months ago Army to NG, so my perspective is probably a little different. I signed a 3 year deal with 24 months of stability and wound up with a bonus. Could I be deployed the final year? I suppose, but that's a risk I'm taking and I would definitely fight it with every policy and loophole that I can twist in my favor.

Two major reasons I transitioned in:

1. Health insurance. I don't care who you are, it's the best deal out there unless you walk into a full-time job with benefits. I think Andrew mentioned he has kids - even better deal. My wife is supporting me but we can't afford to transition from "free healthcare" to a $700/mo+ policy. The way I look at it is the weekend per month covers healthcare and dental (~$300/mo) and my car insurance.

2. Federal tuition assistance for undergrad. I was in when it was shut down temporarily due to congress being congress. So, it isn't a sure thing, but I think it will be there. $4500 a year toward tuition does a lot at a reasonable state school. I'm saving the post 9/11 like yourself.

I'm not trying to recruit you but do it for specific reasons if you do. Don't "just join because it seems like there are some benefits." FYI, I also have zero intentions of pursuing the medical student/resident programs in the guard.

Another outside suggestion. Take a year, get used to being out (this is more critical than you would think) and just work to fund a move the fam to wherever you all want to go. If you're gonna be poor and busting your ass you might as well do it in a place you like.

Move to a real place with real work and a good school to attend as soon as you have the scratch.

This and this. I'll re-iterate that if you're planning on solely supporting your family, your timeline is going to extend a lot. Be aware of that and don't get in a hurry. I'm taking 16 hours this fall - 4 sciences with 4 labs, and that is nearly all that I'm going to have time for. Face to face classes are SO MUCH BETTER, but the time cost is real. I was very fortunate prior to separating and got to take 12 hours (3 sciences with 3 labs) in person before I got out and did well. I used that as my "transition period. I do little side jobs here and there, volunteer a bit and shadow, but that's it. I originally planned on working 20-30 hours a week as well but there aren't enough hours in the week to do much else, unless you work full-time on the weekends and never see your family. My wife is supporting me and we don't have kids, so my situation is atypical compared to most of the guys and gals I knew on active duty.

As for the contracting, if you can afford to do it (time wise) during the summer, that's the best. I don't do what you do but I am in the middle of a 12 day mil contract right now. It pays for a semester of tuition. Keep your eyes open but don't get roped in full-time. I could not imagine doing this full-time for a living.

 

[4401]

Andrew N,

Thank you for your service. Four things:

1. Sounds like you're still on active duty -- highly encourage you to look into Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences (USUHS)'s "Enlisted to Medical Degree Preparatory Program":
https://www.usuhs.edu/emdp2

The military will literally pay you a salary to finish your prerequisites and take the MCAT. Great program.

2. Once you get all your ducks in a row, know the difference between the Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP) and the Health Collegiate Scholarship Program (HCSP). For those of us who are prior service, HCSP is a very good deal:
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/health-services-collegiate-program-military-medicine-series/

3. If you don't have your heart set on an DO/MD, the Navy also has a great program for becoming a PA -- again, you are paid a salary to go to school:
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/swmi/Pages/PhysicianAssistantProgramII.aspx

4. Finally, feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions about the SMCR/IMA/IRR. I've nearly done it all.

V/R,
4401

 

[Andrew N]

All good advice, glad I've got some other military folk here to discuss all of this with.

Think about not working full time... I don't have a choice, I have a wife and 3 children. Probably going to find a place to settle down, get a solid job and take my pre-reqs part time. Maybe 2 classes per semester with evening classes so I don't get burnt out. Do that for 2-3 years and then take my MCAT and apply to med schools.

 

[4401]

Think about not working full time... I don't have a choice, I have a wife and 3 children.

I know you're probably eager to leave the big green weenie as soon as possible, but this is precisely why I'd encourage you to look into programs that pay you to pursue your education (I listed three in my original response).

I've had colleagues of all stripes who were would-be military attorneys, chaplains, intelligence spooks, and medical professionals. By far the group that got the most assistance (financial and otherwise) were the aspiring nurses, physician assistants, and doctors. If you find the right program, Uncle Sam will literally pay you to become a doctor. (There is nothing comparable in law, ministry, etc.) The financial security and consequent peace of mind this gives to those with families (like you, like me) cannot be understated, especially when the alternative is trying to work full-time while balancing night/evening courses (and maximizing the GI Bill).

That being said, one need only look at the "military medicine" forum here at SDN to see all sorts of hate being thrown at the medical corps. So...there's no such thing as a free lunch.

P.S. FYSA, my family pays $200/month for Tricare Reserve Select (TRS):
http://www.tricare.mil/trs

You're eligible for TRS so long as you're in the Selected Reserve, which includes not just the Selected Marine Corps Reserve (SMCR -- drill once a month, two weeks a year), but Individual Mobilization Augmentees (IMA -- drill whenever you work it out with your OIC). Find a billet here:
http://www.marforres.marines.mil/About/ReserveCareerBillets.aspx

 

[deleted480308]

I'm doing trs and it's amazing.

 

[Andrew N]

I'd also read up on how much the GI bill will cover at each school. Public vs private vs private yellow ribbon etc...

Post 9/11 is 100% for 36 months and the majority of schools have yellow ribbon, from what I've been seeing.

As for all the military medicine talk.. I've done a plethora is research to include having read the MARADMIN on the enlisted to medical degree program.. there's not much I'm extremely interested in. I've been working full time as a Marine for almost 5 years now and the past 2 years I've managed to pick up qualifications on my airframe as well as attend school online and at night FULL TIME while working a weekend job at Lowes totaling 90+ hours a week, so I'm 110% confident that I can work a normal 40 hour a week job and do my pre reqs in the late afternoon, post military, without a) ending up divorced and b) touching my GI bill. However, what I HAVE considered is a short contract with the Air Guard as a aerospace medical guy to a) spend a weekend per month getting some sort of clinical experience and b) keep Tricare with the money I receive from drill. I'm assuming aerospace medical guys in the Air Force are the same as our corpsman... but experience taking vitals and urine samples for flight physicals is better than 0 experience at all!

I really appreciate all the input folks, really glad to see there are several folks that are prior service and know so much about the options and programs available.

 

[Andrew N]

100% of public schools. Some schools don't fall under this. Also participating in the yellow ribbon program means different things to different schools. I'm just saying don't expect your GI bill to cover 100% of any school you get in to.

I don't expect to be debt free coming out. I will be taking out loans to support my family while in school anyway. Not that I'm particularly excited about incurring debt, but with 100% of my VA benefits being saved for med school, I will still exit with significantly less debt than your average graduate.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Andrew: all the online schooling in the world doesn't mean much to medical schools. Its part of the .mil lie. None of the schools you are talking about are in the top 100. You need to get out and attend a top 100 brick and mortar university. Get your degree in anything (its really irrelevant except that you need good grades so should study something you like). Get As. Take your prereqs at the same school over the same period of time. Pay for an MCAT prep course. Rock the MCAT. If you can move, head to the peoples republic of CA. You need to be 0% disabled (claim tinnitus) and you get tuition and fees for undergrad at any state school via CalVet. Save your GI Bill for med school (There are a lot fewer low cost options at this point).

Or...move to Texas and establish residency. You may not get Hazelwood money but you'll have access to all the Texas med schools.

DO NOT REENLIST.

The secondary stuff (shadowing, etc) is not what you need to sort out.

Finally, Devildog, you have 3 kids and there is a better than 50% chance you won't make it into med school. You need to be sure this is the only path you see for yourself. If I were you, I'd strongly consider a PA or nursing track (CRNA). Lets assume your oldest is 5. 3 years to finish undergrad, 4 years of med school, 4 years of residency. At the earliest, he/she's 16 years old before you start to work for a living and you've missed everything (baseball games, graduations, you name it). If it takes you any longer (which it will), your eldest could be graduating from high school when you get to start work. Is your job really worth that? You could do an accelerated BSN in 2 years, a year or two of work to get the critical care experience, and on to CRNA school (which is way easier than residency).

 

[deleted480308]

You didn't have to devildog him like a boot. Not cool.

For the rest if the world's general fund of knowledge, "devildog" has been a perjorative term since the 90's. You devildog someone when they've screwed up royally. Furthermore you don't get to use that word. Only we get to use that word. Yes, it's like the big bad N word to us. I'm not even joking about that.

And who's here on the Student Doctor Network trying to be a PA or a CRNA? No one. People come here for advice about getting into medical school. It's kinda f'd up to see you counseling someone to not go for the top. Those should be considered fall back positions.

We have entire sections of this site for PA and nurses...relax trev

 

[4401]

Did you read the whole MARADMIN? He would have to reenlist now, for 5 years, with 5 months until getting out, just to apply for a spot, which he might not get, for a slot in a medical school which he might not get. knowing the marine Corps like I do, he would get screwed left, right and hey diddle diddle straight up the middle six ways to Sunday. The first thing that'll happen is they'll put the ole "Critically Short MOS" franchise tag on him and the hate and discontent rolls from there. Eff all that.

You're a 4401? Student Judge Advocate? You have no idea what Getting Screwed In The Air Wing means until you've seen it or felt it.

And have you ever dealt with a Marine Corps unit Career Planner? Their job is to keep you right where your at and they'll do anything to make that happen. They go to the same school as the street recruiters. You need to keep one hand on your wallet around them at all times.

Now, say for a moment iffen this program existed when I was a young single carefree stud Marine 6 months out of boot I would have applied to this before the ink could dry on the pages I just printed out, but with a wife and kids there's too much at stake to let the Naval Service treat you like a cat with a ball of aluminum foil. No dice.

Oh and after USUHS you owe them a kidney and half your adult life.

D. APPLICANTS MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OF AGE AND BE ABLE TO SERVE 20 YEARS OF COMMISSIONED ACTIVE SERVICE BY AGE 62. NO AGE WAIVERS WILL BE GRANTED.

Worse than the mafia. You never get out. talk about making a deal with the devil at the crossroads.

F. APPLICANTS MUST HOLD A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN ANY DISCIPLINE AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION FROM AN ACCREDITED ACADEMIC INSTITUTION

Seriously, @4401, did you read any of this or the original post? It gets worse with every paragraph.

Seriously are you trying to get a recruiting bonus?

If you still want a military medicine option you can let them pay off your debt after the fact for a much smaller time commitment and opposed to this voluntary lifetime indentured servitude program in that MARADMIN.

Again: never, ever incur more active duty time commitment if you don't ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.

Like if one of your kids needs a lung, like right now.

Four things:

1. Forgive me, trev5150, for having the temerity to even suggest that an aspiring doctor consider having the military help pay her/his way through that arduous marathon. Clearly, the plan to finish one's undergraduate education and take all medical school pre-requisites while working full-time to support four dependents is an absolutely risk-free course of action (COA)! Moreover, continued service to the nation and its service-members (and dependents) is not an acceptable COA for one's career, but should be characterized instead as "lifetime indentured servitude".

2. Forgive me, trev5150, for opening my yapper. Clearly, my MOS and military status have remained completely static since first signing up for an SDN account over seven years ago. I have not put in more than a decade in the Marine Corps (and experienced the wonders of Yuma, 29 Palms, and Afghanistan; on active duty, in the IRR, and SMCR; and yes, working with a career planner in the Wing [which is important to you]) and I have no peers serving as physicians (in uniform). I am not a double Ivy League-educated former lawyer and I have no former classmates serving as physicians (not in uniform) in highly-ranked medical schools and institutions. I am therefore unqualified to offer an opinion.

3. You caught me! I do work for recruiting command. Please direct all future complaints to: [email protected]

You didn't have to devildog him like a boot. Not cool.

4.

 

[Andrew N]

Glad to see we're all getting along.

Just got an email back from DUSOM and they said that they allow you to borrow 900/month for housing and utilities and then a few hundred more for groceries. This seemed ridiculous to me, a family of 5 cannot live off of that even with BAH from the GI bill. At least in my case, it would be very difficult. I know other schools have different policies regarding this, and I know friends of mine have borrowed more than that to account for COL, so I'll wait to hear back from the other schools I sent emails out to.

If anybody has any first hand information about this sort of thing, that would be excellent. Without being able to borrow more and trying to avoid anymore time owed to Uncle Sam, I most likely wouldn't be able to attend any SOM.

 

[deleted480308]

Glad to see we're all getting along.

Just got an email back from DUSOM and they said that they allow you to borrow 900/month for housing and utilities and then a few hundred more for groceries. This seemed ridiculous to me, a family of 5 cannot live off of that even with BAH from the GI bill. At least in my case, it would be very difficult. I know other schools have different policies regarding this, and I know friends of mine have borrowed more than that to account for COL, so I'll wait to hear back from the other schools I sent emails out to.

If anybody has any first hand information about this sort of thing, that would be excellent. Without being able to borrow more and trying to avoid anymore time owed to Uncle Sam, I most likely wouldn't be able to attend any SOM.

Married w/ kids here......no school budgets for families. Fed rules only budget for the student and aren't allowed to include dependants. It's one of the reasons you see so many non-trads looking at military service.

 

[deleted480308]

Annnnnnd this is the non-trad PRE MED section. See? Simple. Our guy didn't ask to be redirected to the kiddie pool.

I would hardly call my captain a member of the kiddie pool. Sometimes around here we tell people things they need to consider and not things they want to hear...like relaxing

 

[Gastrapathy]

trev: Oh for Christ's sake, get over yourself. You are the same ***** that thinks shipmate is a bad word. I respect and appreciate the service of enlisted Marines and 8404 HMs more than anyone else I took care of for more than a decade (at least the ones who lived in the moon dust). You really don't get to rewrite history because you did some exercises.

Andrew: The fact that you liked trev's post suggests to me that you don't really understand what you are setting out to do. The reality is that choosing medicine will consign your family to living on $30,000/year to at the most $70,000/year for the next 15 years (unless you come back in the .mil, in which case some money moves forward but at a considerable future cost). That's gonna suck when you want to pay for lessons, tutors, and summer camps. Your current plan is unlikely to make you competitive. Considering other interesting, highly compensated medical careers with considerably shorter paths to practice is rational (if they are rejected without consideration, that is just ego). If you decide that the only way you can be happy professionally is to practice as a physician, then you need a plan that will actually get you there. Ask those schools you are talking to how many of their graduates matriculated to medical school in the past 5 years. When they can't tell you, think about what that means.

 

[Gastrapathy]

OP, look past all the self-righteous anger. My posts are clear about what you'll need to do to improve your chances for medical school. The part of my post that got trev so angry was not the main focus. Still, it's a long journey. Neither you nor your hypersensitive shipmate have started down the path. Once you start, there are no effective off-ramps before you finish residency. You commit to the whole thing up front. And trev, physicians are very used to giving advice that isn't necessarily exactly what a person wants to hear. Its about what they NEED to hear.

 

[4401]

trev5150,

Andrew N,

I sincerely wish you and your family all the best, whatever you decide. And in all sincerity, I genuinely hope you check in from time to time on SDN -- it's always really great hearing from the ones "that made it".

V/R,
a fellow Marine (who thoroughly enjoyed his EAS)

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah see here's the thing No One Cares About His Rank. Should I drop to my knees and genuflect at his Chicken on a Stick?

I don't say that about him because he's a captian, I say it because he's a sharp guy. I'll repeat my advice to relax.

 

[deleted480308]

And I'll refer to my response to Gastrapathy above. Having a vigorous discussion on the internet does not equal upset. I'm having a Chai and some unsalted Planter's premium blend and typing. Are you perhaps projecting your own reaction to what's being said?

Do what you will with it...

 

[deleted480308]

I put it in the same file as the banana peel and used coffee grinds.

If it help you relax, please do

 

[Andrew N]

My first and foremost goal is to get a steady job near a good university that I can moonlight at. Nothing can happen until I finish college, so I'll focus on putting one foot in front of the other for now. If I respond to anymore posts or like the wrong one, I'll receive another devildog'n.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Sigh. OK. Good luck.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Trev- you're white right? You know how you can tell those two words aren't the same? You can write devildog but have to abbreviate the other.

You are on the path but you are still in front of the last reasonable offramp.

 

[Andrew N]

I like to keep an open mind. If by the time I finish undergrad I miss the military life, I may strongly consider HSCP. However, for the time being I haven't even finished any of the pre-reqs. I don't HAVE to decide right now, as much as it plagues me to say that - I'm very much so a long term planner. Right now I would like to focus on acing the remainder of my undergrad and finding a job near a good university that I can complete my pre-reqs at so that I'm more competitive when the time comes. Out of all the pro-military options out there, HSCP would probably be the best fit for me should I go that route. USUSOM in conjunction with that MARADMIN that came out a couple months ago would mean I sign on for another 4 years in my primary MOS to continue finishing school as I am doing currently. As Trev described in detail.. that is extremely non-ideal for a CDI in the wing when going into medicine is the end goal. I would EAS and go the PA route before doing that, simply because there isn't a whole lot in the MARADMIN that protects me from the needs of the Corps. Hell, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe PA graduate school can fall under HSCP.

Spite all the shots fired here, I really do appreciate all the input. The arguing has kept me objective in regards to what I'll do after I finish all my undergrad studies. I've spent the past hour watching NP vs PA vs MD videos on YouTube...

 

[trev5150]

Trev- you're white right? You know how you can tell those two words aren't the same? You can write devildog but have to abbreviate the other.

You are on the path but you are still in front of the last reasonable offramp.

You're just scraping and flailing to get the last word in.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Andrew- the mar admin isn't the only way into USUHS. You can apply like any other applicant as a civilian at the same time as your other apps. You'd be an O1E for med school. The downsides are all detailed in the .mil forum but, in your case it's not a terrible option. You could decide to come back in via USUHS, HSCP or HPSP but it needs to be on your terms after undergrad.

fwiw, I think the best midlevel job is crna.

 

[deleted480308]

fwiw, I think the best midlevel job is crna.

agreed

 

[Andrew N]

Andrew- the mar admin isn't the only way into USUHS. You can apply like any other applicant as a civilian at the same time as your other apps. You'd be an O1E for med school. The downsides are all detailed in the .mil forum but, in your case it's not a terrible option. You could decide to come back in via USUHS, HSCP or HPSP but it needs to be on your terms after undergrad.

fwiw, I think the best midlevel job is crna.

agreed

Definitely something I'll consider if I find the MD/DO dream too unrealistic. I haven't done non-online school in a while, and I haven't worked less than 70-80 hrs a week in a very long time; like years. So we will see how I handle the balance of work, family and school when I exit the Marines and bump down to a 40 hr work week and my pre-reqs in the evenings. I'm imagining it being very doable and even less stressful than my current lifestyle, but you never know. I'm always having doubts about my ability to complete medical school without flunking out. I haven't always been the best student, but recently I've found that positive results are more often the product of hard work as opposed to genius. A friend of mine from high school currently attending Morehouse SOM also told me this not to long ago.

When I originally attended college straight out of HS I didn't do well, I was 17 and lacked the discipline to manage my time better - my GPA after 2 semesters started with a decimal point. When I took my second stab at college in 2013 I did fine, I haven't made anything less than a B 40-50 semester hours later.. I believe I have the Marine Corps to thank for that. How will that old GPA from my original college in 2008 effect my ability to get into medical school later? Obviously there's going to be a strong upward trend overall, and I have yet to take my pre-reqs.

 

[Andrew N]

Those grades are calculated into your overall GPA. DO schools allow you to retake the classes and replace the grade. Trends won't matter if the GPA is so low it's auto screened.

So even if I get all A's for the remainder of my undergrad, I can only have a fair shot at DO schools?

 

[xffan624]

Definitely something I'll consider if I find the MD/DO dream too unrealistic. I haven't done non-online school in a while, and I haven't worked less than 70-80 hrs a week in a very long time; like years. So we will see how I handle the balance of work, family and school when I exit the Marines and bump down to a 40 hr work week and my pre-reqs in the evenings. I'm imagining it being very doable and even less stressful than my current lifestyle, but you never know. I'm always having doubts about my ability to complete medical school without flunking out. I haven't always been the best student, but recently I've found that positive results are more often the product of hard work as opposed to genius. A friend of mine from high school currently attending Morehouse SOM also told me this not to long ago.

When I originally attended college straight out of HS I didn't do well, I was 17 and lacked the discipline to manage my time better - my GPA after 2 semesters started with a decimal point. When I took my second stab at college in 2013 I did fine, I haven't made anything less than a B 40-50 semester hours later.. I believe I have the Marine Corps to thank for that. How will that old GPA from my original college in 2008 effect my ability to get into medical school later? Obviously there's going to be a strong upward trend overall, and I have yet to take my pre-reqs.

How many credits did you take? The less credits, the less harm to your GPA. Unfortunately it will be factored into your current GPA, regardless. With some imperfections in the past, you need to focus on getting A's. Working lots of hours is different than studying, but you certainly have the discipline to get the grades you need. As previously stated, your number one focus needs to be on your prereqs and then the MCAT when you take it. This is good practice for medical school. You will have concentrate your focus on specific tasks there as well (MS1-2, step 1, etc.)

 

[Andrew N]

How many credits did you take? The less credits, the less harm to your GPA. Unfortunately it will be factored into your current GPA, regardless. With some imperfections in the past, you need to focus on getting A's. Working lots of hours is different than studying, but you certainly have the discipline to get the grades you need. As previously stated, your number one focus needs to be on your prereqs and then the MCAT when you take it. This is good practice for medical school. You will have concentrate your focus on specific tasks there as well (MS1-2, step 1, etc.)

I'll have to go back and look, but I was full time for 2 semesters. I don't think getting A's in my pre-reqs is going to be an issue. After a lot of discussion with multiple people I still have no idea whether or not I could get away with taking the pre-reqs at the local community college.. some folks say it's perfectly fine as long as you ace them, especially since I'm non-traditional with circumstances that limit where I live while completing undergrad since I have to work. Others say nay, and that I should only take them at a top 100 college or university.

Who knows man. There's trends on what makes you competitive and there are the exceptions to the rule.

That bump in gpa for DO schools still requires you to retake all of those classes and do well in them. Going from a 0.XX in person to Bs and As from an online school is not going to help your case. I'd do as others have suggested and not sign up for one more class with them.

I'm not doing anymore online courses. A lot of my courses were taken on campus, a small handful were taken online and they weren't through AMU, they were through Park University.. which is an actual brick and mortar school.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

After a lot of discussion with multiple people I still have no idea whether or not I could get away with taking the pre-reqs at the local community college..

I fall into the herd of people that believe community college (CC) for pre-reqs is totally fine. However...the best source of information for this would be the medical schools themselves. I would highly recommend calling or emailing the admissions office of a few schools you believe you might end up in and asking them about it directly. Another source of information regarding which schools take CC is the Medical School Admissions Report (MSAR). This list is compiled by the AAMC and details every single MD school in the country. Unfortunately you have to pay 20 bucks for the online version. However, you might be able to find older copies in pre-med advising offices of large universities that you can just peruse.

On a final note, you should definitely be taking classes such as organic chemistry and other upper division level courses in a good brick and mortar institution.

 

[Andrew N]

I would highly recommend calling or emailing the admissions office of a few schools you believe you might end up in and asking them about it directly. Another source of information regarding which schools take CC is the Medical School Admissions Report (MSAR). This list is compiled by the AAMC and details every single MD school in the country

Awesome information, thank you!

 

[Gastrapathy]

You should come back here with your credit hour total (including any classes you took but didn't get credit) and GPA. It may not be possible to recover for allopathic schools and you'll need to work grade replacement for DO.

 

[Andrew N]

You should come back here with your credit hour total (including any classes you took but didn't get credit) and GPA. It may not be possible to recover for allopathic schools and you'll need to work grade replacement for DO.

I'll post them up when I get back to my laptop, I'm afraid you may be right about allopathic. Almost all the classes except I think 1 or 2 were extremely low or failing. Wish I could go back 7 years and kick myself.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Most specialties are still readily obtainable as a DO, particularly in the .mil. But grade replacement requires some careful planning and can lengthen the process. I agree that grades should expire at some point (if the mcat can expire why shouldn't grades) but sadly the system is not designed to favor people like you.