Academia vs. clinical psychology

[Psychology 76]

I've searched SDN and I haven't found much pertaining to this discussion.

It seems like most people feel like the future of clinical psychology is kind of bleak. Is this the same case for academia in psychology/neuroscience? I'm personally looking into cognitive neuroscience PhD programs but I'm still thinking about going the neuropsychologist route. Does anyone have any insight on the pros and cons of both routes?

From what I gather both careers can be risky and hard to find a solid job somewhere but clinical psych has more options. The pros are that your doing something you love and getting paid for it. Both careers do not earn a lot for an advanced degree but clinical psychology can make more (esp in one specializes e.g. neuropsych). Academia can be publish or perish with tons of grant writing and clinical psych has lots of other problems addressed in other threads. I know you can be a clinical psychologist and do research but is it really worth it if the clinical field is just another option?

Anyone else with more knowledge than me care to elaborate on this issue?

Thank you

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Remember that this board is a highly unrepresentative and very very limited sample. So I would take any discussion with a huge grain of salt. I include myself in this The future of clinical psychology is often regarded as bleak in that there is competition between psychologists and master's level providers and RxP has not taken the country by storm. Clinical psychology is also dependent upon insurance reimbursements and those have been stagnant or declining. But it is very unlikely that you will be unemployed. Despite all the moaning on this board about the market being "saturated" a quick check with the Department of Labor projections indicates that nationwide we are not at a saturation point. However, some markets such as L.A. or New York City may be at saturation.

The future for academic psychology is extremely bleak in the sense that future employment of any humanities or social science Ph.D. tenure track positions within a university setting will be minimal to nonexistent. Hiring at most universities has come to a screeching halt in the current economic situation. The cost of a university education has been rising at a rate faster than inflation for decades. It is an unsustainable bubble and universities will be doing everything they can do to cut costs now and in the future. Full time professors in teaching positions are expensive. The university employment opportunities in the future will consist primarily of adjuncts and competition for the few tenure track academic positions that open up will be extraordinarily intense. The most common academic positions will be at the community college level. You will have many more opportunities outside of academe in clinical psychology or I/O psychology. Psychologists associated with PCSAS like Baker and McFall have advocated a training model in which psychologists are primarily trained as "clinical scientists" rather than as clinicians. Where exactly these "clinical scientist" psychologists are supposed to be employed given the current and likely future state of academe is unclear.

 

[Ollie123]

I think a large part depends on where your interests lie. I don't think psychology is going away anytime soon and actually think we can be in a good position relative to many fields just because our training is so diverse and transdisciplinary. Within my laboratory, we work with geneticists, kinesiologists, chemists, biostatisticians, neuroscientists, economists, physicians, nurses, etc.

That said, I think its going to become increasingly hard for academics who aren't prepared for that kind of work. Working isolated in your own lab and ignoring those around you is becoming a thing of the past, and psychologists who aren't prepared to break out of that mold may find themselves in trouble.

That said, I always get the impression the clinical side seems far more doom-and-gloom than the academic side, at least based off discussions I see here, though I have no idea how representative that is. Things that would never even occur to me seem to not be increasingly common on that side. For example...unpaid post-docs. I fully expect to make, at LEAST, the NIH payline for post-doc (i.e. > 40k). Its not great, but its a far cry from unpaid. Pay doesn't seem quite as bad past that either. Some of the things I hear on here shock me and don't at all match with what I am hearing from graduates of my program.

That said, don't think the only opportunities are professor or clinician. There are many other positions that can be filled...if you have good quant training you can work as a statistician, if you feel like selling out, the pharmaceutical industry often hires psychologists The question is just what you can see yourself doing, and what you are willing to do to get there.

 

[PHinisheD]

That's a great question. I'm not sure how the academic job market has really changed in recent years, though my impression is that it's damn hard to get any academic job (much less one in a place you'd like to live), and it's damn hard to get and maintain funding (much less in a research area you're passionate about, in many cases). And even if you do, you will be underpaid and under lots of pressure for many years.

Here's the point: An academic career is a really, really difficult undertaking. It's like committing to finish an ironman triathlon: You can't really do it casually and expect to succeed (unless you are just crazy gifted). The people I know that make it in academia either have a burning passion for doing scientific work (it's their hobby!), or a deep-seated need to prove they can suck it up and push through misery (it's their cross to bear!), or both. Some people, like me, can muster the discipline to do well enough in grad school, but shudder at the thought of spending a lifetime slaving over manuscripts.

If you really, honestly enjoy doing science, then a clinical PhD from an R1 school will open lots of doors to work in psych depts, med schools, and public health schools. You may find that the clinical work is a drag and a waste of time, in which case, you can always just quit the clinical component, and take a research PhD. Just be sure to go to a good research program that has lots of interdisciplinary collaboration opoortunities. And be prepared to focus on science.