Academic Dishonesty and Chances of Admission

[Affiche]

@gyngyn has already said that IAs from early on are often forgiven if there was no repeat offense. I personally know multiple people who were accepted with cheating and plagiarism on their records. Just clean up your act and figure out how to report this when the time comes. It's way too early for you to be stressing out about AMCAS considering most freshmen who are pre-med never even apply to medical school.

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[JustaDO]

I hope you realize that OP stopped posting and probably reading this after his last post 2 months ago.

 

[Affiche]

I hope you realize that OP stopped posting and probably reading this after his last post 2 months ago.

Probs isn't even pre-med anymore lol

 

[LnSin]

EDIT: oops wrong thread lol

 

[JustaDO]

Did you really make a new account just to post here? lol

Sadly, the answer is yes, with some committing an unbelievable amount of effort to trolling. I have been calling for university emails or work emails to be mandatory for registration as I think quality of forums will go up sharply

 

[joe_smo]

@Affiche Yes, I did make an account just to post this.

Except its the SCHOOL that chooses to uses the loophole to either apply a IA or not. There are more candidates then there are seats, and with such a blemish, why buy something stained rather then something clean?

Obviously the school can choose who they want to accept. And if they don't want to accept someone with an IA on their record, that's fine. It's the inconsistency that gets to me. What I don't like is that for some people like @LizzyM, academic dishonesty is an almost unforgivable sin. And yet they see it happen at their own school and don't seem to mind too much. @LizzyM certainly isn't knocking down any doors to make sure that HER schools isn't graduating any dishonest students. @Goro doesn't post on the heroin guy's thread and say "you are never getting into medicine". And plus, stuff like this isn't binary, you cheat and get caught or you don't cheat. One school may choose to flag a student for a minor incident, while another may give them 10 chances.

So why not treat it like the more subtle issue that it is, rather than just saying that an applicant is "stained".

 

[LizzyM]

And you know what, I think I'll keep going. How come @LizzyM can OPENLY ADMIT that students in her classes get caught cheating and don't receive institutional action (albeit with a zero on the assignment), and that's perfectly fine not to put on your application. But if the EXACT SAME THING happened at a different school, and the school gave the student a zero AND they received an institutional action, then @LizzyM would reject that student from her medical school almost without question. I mean, are you kidding me? How do you even justify that kind of logic?

Sadly, there are double standards in many places. The way graduate students are treated vs medical school applicants is one double standard. (And let me add, not just a zero for the assignment but a failing grade for the course which can also preclude or delay graduation!-- also these students are not applying to medical school so having to "report" is not an issue.) The fact that one school will send intoxicated students to "health services" overnight to sober up while another will give them an IA is another double standard. It is a double standard that some states consider speeding to be a misdemeanor and others do not.

The reason I consider academic dishonesty to be an unforgivable sin is that dealing with cheating students is a headache. I'm stuck with the grad students I have but I would not welcome anyone into our medical school community (and I would avoid admitting a graduate student, if I had a say in their admission) who would do that, if that is serious, dishonest academic behavior.

 

[joe_smo]

@LizzyM thanks for the reply. I appreciate the acknowledgement that double standards exist, but aren't you in a position to take these things into account when you review applications? Why take the absolutist stance on some of these issues (like you have online), when you know full well that there is a lot of subtlety involved?

And I'm not saying you have to accept every cheater you encounter. Just, why have such a black and white view?

 

[LnSin]

I don't disagree. Just saying I don't think everyone that "cheats" is a bad person or incapable of being an ethical doctor.

I get the underlying message, but I think it may go a bit deeper than that. My whole issue with cheating is that the student is taking a shortcut to learning the material, which in the context of medicine can ACTUALLY be fatal.

Now I understand the whole idea of having Step 1, Step 2, boards etc. to make sure that a potential doctor has learned the material, but if a person is a known 'cheater' and tries to take the easy way out of med school by copying/whatever (taking short cuts), they're likely going to do badly on the board exams and it's a waste of time admitting them, no? Just my $0.02, but what do you think?

 

[JustaDO]

And yet they see it happen at their own school and don't seem to mind too much. @LizzyM certainly isn't knocking down any doors to make sure that HER schools isn't graduating any dishonest students. @Goro doesn't post on the heroin guy's thread and say "you are never getting into medicine". And plus, stuff like this isn't binary, you cheat and get caught or you don't cheat. One school may choose to flag a student for a minor incident, while another may give them 10 chances.

So why not treat it like the more subtle issue that it is, rather than just saying that an applicant is "stained".

Call them stained, call them purple, call them cheaters, regardless, if there is pristine candidates why not take them before those records who are less then pristine?

The point you notated about graduating dishonest students is true, but the key element is that they are already accepted, vs those not accepted. Consider getting your medical license, and then getting a DUI. The board would go above and beyond to make sure you keep your license. Get a DUI before or while in medical school? Its going to be a rough hill if not the end of the journey.

Why take the absolutist stance on some of these issues (like you have online), when you know full well that there is a lot of subtlety involved?

People have a right to their own opinion and views based on perspective.

Just, why have such a black and white view?

When the US began the war on terrorism, almost anyone could get a waiver to the military. Now? Getting in with a waiver is very difficult if not right impossible for certain things (AF etc). Supply and demand determines selectivity.

 

[LizzyM]

When we have thousands of applicants for hundreds of seats, we can be picky. We ask ourselves, would we want someone who did that in our academic community? And this is not a decision made by a single person but a decision made by a group after considerable discussion and a decision about one person with an IA for a specific behavior will inform the handling of other applicants with the same behavior, at least during the same application cycle (in other words precedent). What I have seen over more than a decade is that the committee making admission decisions will take a hard line approach to cheating. I'm telling you what I see. I hope that it will deter anyone who has considered cheating and who is weighing the risks against the possible benefit of a better grade.

Once a student is here, we are stuck with them in large part and it would be unlikely to be expelled for an infraction that would preclude someone from getting in the door at the medical school.

There is a similar double standard in medical licensing. Some people who have done some pretty bad things will get their license suspended for a limited period of time while someone who did the same thing before applying to medical school would never get in. Life is not fair. Learn to live with it.

 

[Lawpy]

Life is not fair. Learn to live with it.

If life is not fair to everyone, doesn't that make life fair?

 

[LnSin]

If life is not fair to everyone, doesn't that make life fair?

but life is unfortunately un-uniformly unfair. Yes that was excuse to alliterate.

 

[Goro]

You're getting too far into ***** territory for me to give you a serious answer.

Applying Ignore function now.

But what if someone cheated in like middle school? Isn't that like way too long ago?

 

[Lawpy]

but life is unfortunately un-uniformly unfair. Yes that was excuse to alliterate.

Is there an objective measure of fairness?

 

[LnSin]

Is there an objective measure of fairness?

Probably not, but can we agree that the economic distress of a child born in a village in china is fundamentally different than the economic distress of a 1st generation immigrant to the US?

Are we too off topic? :x

 

[Lawpy]

Probably not, but can we agree that the economic distress of a child born in a village in china is fundamentally different than the economic distress of a 1st generation immigrant to the US?

Are we too off topic? :x

Probably per GDP calculations

Well it's a more pleasant digression compared to insults being thrown around here.

 

[freak7]

Are we too off topic? :x

Not yet, but we will be!

but life is unfortunately un-uniformly unfair. Yes that was excuse to alliterate.

I thought alliteration referred to the sound, not the letter.

 

[joe_smo]

Life is not fair. Learn to live with it.

We can at least agree on that.

 

[LnSin]

Not yet, but we will be!



I thought alliteration referred to the sound, not the letter.

Ah, TIL. Thanks

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

You're getting too far into ***** territory for me to give you a serious answer.

Applying Ignore function now.

That really hurt my feelings

 

[redhope]

You're getting too far into ***** territory for me to give you a serious answer.

Applying Ignore function now.

LOL Goro with the KO.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Sadly, there are double standards in many places. The way graduate students are treated vs medical school applicants is one double standard. (And let me add, not just a zero for the assignment but a failing grade for the course which can also preclude or delay graduation!-- also these students are not applying to medical school so having to "report" is not an issue.) The fact that one school will send intoxicated students to "health services" overnight to sober up while another will give them an IA is another double standard. It is a double standard that some states consider speeding to be a misdemeanor and others do not.

The reason I consider academic dishonesty to be an unforgivable sin is that dealing with cheating students is a headache. I'm stuck with the grad students I have but I would not welcome anyone into our medical school community (and I would avoid admitting a graduate student, if I had a say in their admission) who would do that, if that is serious, dishonest academic behavior.

What exactly qualifies as heinously dishonest academic behavior? At my university working together on things such as homework, papers and take home assignments is actually encouraged by professors. Not answer sharing, but working on problems as a group if that makes sense.

As a result the only way for someone to receive an IA is to flat out plagiarize a paper or to be caught blatantly cheating on an exam ( phone out, cheat sheet, whispering answers etc.). Even then my University is lenient enough where the first time being caught is punished with a 0 and a warning from the dean. However, getting caught a second time results in a guaranteed IA and failure of the course. Many events can be grounds for expulsion.



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Because there's plenty of evidence that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students.

My clinical colleagues often have the harshest views on IAs. They take professionalism very seriously.

@LizzyM thanks for the reply. I appreciate the acknowledgement that double standards exist, but aren't you in a position to take these things into account when you review applications? Why take the absolutist stance on some of these issues (like you have online), when you know full well that there is a lot of subtlety involved?

And I'm not saying you have to accept every cheater you encounter. Just, why have such a black and white view?

 

[LizzyM]

What exactly qualifies as heinously dishonest academic behavior? At my university working together on things such as homework, papers and take home assignments is actually encouraged by professors. Not answer sharing, but working on problems as a group if that makes sense.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Some of the things I've seen... cutting a bibliography from a published paper and pasting it into your paper as your own bibliography (caught when the statements in the paper didn't come close to matching up with the papers cited -- and the topic happened to be a specialty of our department). Splitting a take home short essay exam and each doing half of the questions and then swapping answers. I've not had students submit papers for regrading after changing the answers but I've heard of it. Ditto submitting another's work (e.g. an entire grant proposal or protocol) as one's own. Having "family emergencies" causing the student to miss every midterm and final and take it later... meanwhile asking students who'd already taken the exam for their opinions of the questions....

 

[Crayola227]

Not yet, but we will be!



I thought alliteration referred to the sound, not the letter.

there's more than one kind of alliteration

 

[freak7]

there's more than one kind of alliteration

Would you mind naming them?

 

[Crayola227]

Would you mind naming them?

yes, I would. I shared the contents of my brain. Go thee forth and Google

 

[freak7]

yes, I would. I shared the contents of my brain. Go thee forth and Google

That's why I asked. I don't know of and couldn't find any other types. If you're referring to consonance and dissonance, they're related but not alliteration.

 

[Crayola227]

I've heard of some type of alliteration that just relates to the alphabet and how it looks on the page, but I can't remember the name, I want to say literary, versus the phonic kind everyone thinks of

 

[freak7]

I've heard of some type of alliteration that just relates to the alphabet and how it looks on the page, but I can't remember the name, I want to say literary, versus the phonic kind everyone thinks of

You may be thinking of sight rhymes. There is no such analogue for alliteration.

 

[EParker37]

It's an interesting topic of moral discussion, that many will try to split hairs as to what exactly constitutes cheating vs giving yourself a slightly easier path. Sure, in a music appreciation class it may not seem like much, or just a lab quiz, but any type of dishonesty in academia does speak to the right vs wrong switch in ones own mind. That if willing to accept a shortcut now, would the same person be willing to accept a bigger and more costly one down the road if they can already justify it now. Maybe I am just getting too old, I don't know, but I can honestly say I have never cheated, I would rather get a worse grade than know that I did something dishonestly. Let me give you some real life examples of this, a person who cheats to skate by in a medical class, such as paramedic school, to get past that super difficult cardiology or pharmacology quiz or test, who then finds themselves in an ambulance with a crashing patient on multiple meds and with a bizarre rhythm is going to wish they had paid better attention, and their dishonesty is having a direct impact on patient care. Or to even extrapolate further, whats to say that the same person wouldn't feel a moral obligation to report the correct results of research, but fudge the data a little bit to make it seem like the desired conclusion is true. As healthcare professionals we are tasked with a great amount of power and responsibility, therefore, it makes sense that those who are the gatekeepers would be a bit dubious of someone who is willing to take a shortcut and then try to split hairs. It may sound grandiose and self-righteous, but honestly, there are lives at stake. Forgo the video games or a night out and put in the time to do it right, not only will you feel better about yourself, but you will find that these skills and drive translate well into real life and serve you well later on down the road.

 

[freak7]

It's an interesting topic of moral discussion, that many will try to split hairs as to what exactly constitutes cheating vs giving yourself a slightly easier path. Sure, in a music appreciation class it may not seem like much, or just a lab quiz, but any type of dishonesty in academia does speak to the right vs wrong switch in ones own mind. That if willing to accept a shortcut now, would the same person be willing to accept a bigger and more costly one down the road if they can already justify it now. Maybe I am just getting too old, I don't know, but I can honestly say I have never cheated, I would rather get a worse grade than know that I did something dishonestly. Let me give you some real life examples of this, a person who cheats to skate by in a medical class, such as paramedic school, to get past that super difficult cardiology or pharmacology quiz or test, who then finds themselves in an ambulance with a crashing patient on multiple meds and with a bizarre rhythm is going to wish they had paid better attention, and their dishonesty is having a direct impact on patient care. Or to even extrapolate further, whats to say that the same person wouldn't feel a moral obligation to report the correct results of research, but fudge the data a little bit to make it seem like the desired conclusion is true. As healthcare professionals we are tasked with a great amount of power and responsibility, therefore, it makes sense that those who are the gatekeepers would be a bit dubious of someone who is willing to take a shortcut and then try to split hairs. It may sound grandiose and self-righteous, but honestly, there are lives at stake. Forgo the video games or a night out and put in the time to do it right, not only will you feel better about yourself, but you will find that these skills and drive translate well into real life and serve you well later on down the road.

Hey get out of here with your on-topic discussion.

 

[joe_smo]

@Goro I am honestly interested in seeing this evidence that you bring up in every academic dishonesty discussion. I think it would go a long way in helping the rest of us see things from your viewpoint.

At my university working together on things such as homework, papers and take home assignments is actually encouraged by professors. Not answer sharing, but working on problems as a group if that makes sense.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. So are you not allowed to look at and confirm each others answers at all? If not, then I can say with almost 100% certainty that at some point you and others subjected to the same rules as you have cheated, barring a situation where you have literally never worked in a group. If you are allowed to look at each others answers after you've come to group consensus, then what is the exact line that separates "answer sharing" from collaborative group-work (this is a question for @Goro and @LizzyM)? These distinctions are extremely important if you're determining a label for someone that they will wear for years to come. I've been in classes where the syllabus (which our teacher approved of) stated that we ABSOLUTELLY COULD NOT share solutions with each other, and then in office hours our teacher had us write out solutions on a blackboard in front of other students. Was this academic dishonesty? It's an open question, because I really don't know.

 

[Goro]

Pubmed is your friend. Here's one for starters. Search "academic dishonesty"


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2923632

@Goro I am honestly interested in seeing this evidence that you bring up in every academic dishonesty discussion. I think it would go a long way in helping the rest of us see things from your viewpoint.


This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. So are you not allowed to look at and confirm each others answers at all? If not, then I can say with almost 100% certainty that at some point you and others subjected to the same rules as you have cheated, barring a situation where you have literally never worked in a group. If you are allowed to look at each others answers after you've come to group consensus, then what is the exact line that separates "answer sharing" from collaborative group-work (this is a question for @Goro and @LizzyM)? These distinctions are extremely important if you're determining a label for someone that they will wear for years to come. I've been in classes where the syllabus (which our teacher approved of) stated that we ABSOLUTELLY COULD NOT share solutions with each other, and then in office hours our teacher had us write out solutions on a blackboard in front of other students. Was this academic dishonesty? It's an open question, because I really don't know.

 

[JustaDO]

@Goro Was this academic dishonesty? It's an open question, because I really don't know.

"Syllabus subject to change"

 

[joe_smo]

@Goro I read through your suggested article, and did an "academic dishonesty" keyword search on PubMed, and here are some highlights of my results. For the sake of a fair overview, I've included highlights from every article I read that seemed to support your point, and only some of those that didn't. Note that I didn't go through these with a fine-tooth comb, and skipped some of the ones that didn't look relevant, so my findings could be inaccurate. However, you are free to follow my methods and refute my findings:

Article: "A Matter of Integrity" (the one you originally suggested).
Overview: The author offers no hard evidence for a link between cheating in pre-med and dishonest practice, even saying "Whether there is a connection between the early professional environment [(pre-med)] and research fraud is unclear". The author does suggest that pre-med committees "pay more attention to the moral background" of applicants and that medical students who cheat should be expelled, but this is the author's personal opinion and offers no hard evidence for the link you suggest exists. Question: Did you read this article when you suggested it to me? There is literally no evidence in here to support your claim, and it even contradicts it to some extent.

Article: "Academic Dishonesty Today, Unethical Practices Tomorrow?"
Overview: From the author "This literature review does not provide enough evidence to concretely assume that nursing students who behave dishonestly in academia today will be unethical nurses tomorrow." Although, the author sees the potential for a link and calls for more research to be conducted. Read the article for more detail.

Article: "Does Academic Dishonesty Relate to Unethical Behavior in Professional Practice? An Exploratory Study*"
Overview: "Though statistical significance cannot be established due to small sample sizes, there is a clear trend in the data." AKA it looks like it might be true, but we need more research. Also, the context and methods suggest this isn't a good study to use as an example. High school students who were grouped in different cheating categories (frequent, never, etc.) were asked to say what they think they'd do in a situation. This is very different from actual "academic dishonesty implies professional misconduct" hypothesis, which is based on correlation between actual actions.

Article: I would love to tell you this, but I forgot to write it down and now I can't find it. It was on the PubMed search and had something to do with radiological something or other, so have at it.
Overview: This was a paper comparing faculty and student perceptions of academic dishonesty and unethical clinical work. There was no (that I saw) link suggested between undergraduate cheating, medical school cheating, and unethical clinical work. This article suggested three papers for a link between cheaters and unethical doctors. I could only access one of them (the following one), but feel free to find this paper and look up the other two and buoy your point.

Article: "Cheating by students: findings, reflections, and remedies".
Overview: The only actual evidence I could find in this one which supported your findings was that surveyed teachers thought that cheating remained constant from undergraduate to medical school, which is not viable evidence. I could have missed something, though, so feel free to correct me. This article suggested the following one for a link between unethical doctors and cheating undergrads/med students.

Article: "Cheating in Medical School"
Overview: This was an article which the previous article suggested as a source for a correlation between cheating in undergraduate, cheating in medical school, and unethical clinical work. This was actually the first one where a significant correlation between undergraduate cheating and medical school cheating was found, as well as between medical school cheating and unethical clinical work. However, there was no comparison with non-cheating undergraduates and cheating medical school students. I think it would be worthwhile to see this as a comparison. Interestingly, the article also stated that "transfer student status" was significantly correlated with cheating in medical school. So watch out all you dirty transfer students out there, @Goro has seen the evidence and is gonna prevent you from becoming a doctor!

So that ended my Lit search. I only went through 5 of the 6 pages I could find on PubMed, so I could have missed something on the last page. Note that these aren't all of the articles I read, but I did list all of them that seemed to contradict my view. Also, there are probably other articles outside of PubMed (judging from my scouring of sources in the articles I looked at), so I easily could have missed something.

What I've learned today is that you're right, @Goro, cheaters in undergrad ARE more likely to be unethical doctor. And even more interestingly, so are transfer students. So, I think the logical conclusion we can draw from this is that neither of them should be allowed to be doctors. If you have any more great papers @Goro, please indulge us.

 

[ZedsDed]

@Goro I read through your suggested article, and did an "academic dishonesty" keyword search on PubMed, and here are some highlights of my results. For the sake of a fair overview, I've included highlights from every article I read that seemed to support your point, and only some of those that didn't. Note that I didn't go through these with a fine-tooth comb, and skipped some of the ones that didn't look relevant, so my findings could be inaccurate. However, you are free to follow my methods and refute my findings:

Article: "A Matter of Integrity" (the one you originally suggested).
Overview: The author offers no hard evidence for a link between cheating in pre-med and dishonest practice, even saying "Whether there is a connection between the early professional environment [(pre-med)] and research fraud is unclear". The author does suggest that pre-med committees "pay more attention to the moral background" of applicants and that medical students who cheat should be expelled, but this is the author's personal opinion and offers no hard evidence for the link you suggest exists. Question: Did you read this article when you suggested it to me? There is literally no evidence in here to support your claim, and it even contradicts it to some extent.

Article: "Academic Dishonesty Today, Unethical Practices Tomorrow?"
Overview: From the author "This literature review does not provide enough evidence to concretely assume that nursing students who behave dishonestly in academia today will be unethical nurses tomorrow." Although, the author sees the potential for a link and calls for more research to be conducted. Read the article for more detail.

Article: "Does Academic Dishonesty Relate to Unethical Behavior in Professional Practice? An Exploratory Study*"
Overview: "Though statistical significance cannot be established due to small sample sizes, there is a clear trend in the data." AKA it looks like it might be true, but we need more research. Also, the context and methods suggest this isn't a good study to use as an example. High school students who were grouped in different cheating categories (frequent, never, etc.) were asked to say what they think they'd do in a situation. This is very different from actual "academic dishonesty implies professional misconduct" hypothesis, which is based on correlation between actual actions.

Article: I would love to tell you this, but I forgot to write it down and now I can't find it. It was on the PubMed search and had something to do with radiological something or other, so have at it.
Overview: This was a paper comparing faculty and student perceptions of academic dishonesty and unethical clinical work. There was no (that I saw) link suggested between undergraduate cheating, medical school cheating, and unethical clinical work. This article suggested three papers for a link between cheaters and unethical doctors. I could only access one of them (the following one), but feel free to find this paper and look up the other two and buoy your point.

Article: "Cheating by students: findings, reflections, and remedies".
Overview: The only actual evidence I could find in this one which supported your findings was that surveyed teachers thought that cheating remained constant from undergraduate to medical school, which is not viable evidence. I could have missed something, though, so feel free to correct me. This article suggested the following one for a link between unethical doctors and cheating undergrads/med students.

Article: "Cheating in Medical School"
Overview: This was an article which the previous article suggested as a source for a correlation between cheating in undergraduate, cheating in medical school, and unethical clinical work. This was actually the first one where a significant correlation between undergraduate cheating and medical school cheating was found, as well as between medical school cheating and unethical clinical work. However, there was no comparison with non-cheating undergraduates and cheating medical school students. I think it would be worthwhile to see this as a comparison. Interestingly, the article also stated that "transfer student status" was significantly correlated with cheating in medical school. So watch out all you dirty transfer students out there, @Goro has seen the evidence and is gonna prevent you from becoming a doctor!

So that ended my Lit search. I only went through 5 of the 6 pages I could find on PubMed, so I could have missed something on the last page. Note that these aren't all of the articles I read, but I did list all of them that seemed to contradict my view. Also, there are probably other articles outside of PubMed (judging from my scouring of sources in the articles I looked at), so I easily could have missed something.

What I've learned today is that you're right, @Goro, cheaters in undergrad ARE more likely to be unethical doctor. And even more interestingly, so are transfer students. So, I think the logical conclusion we can draw from this is that neither of them should be allowed to be doctors. If you have any more great papers @Goro, please indulge us.

Question: have you ever unambiguously cheated? As in, done something that is clearly on the side of cheating -- not the gray area. I'm not getting personal, I do have a point in asking.

 

[Goro]

Can the Mods kindly sticky this???

@Goro I read through your suggested article, and did an "academic dishonesty" keyword search on PubMed, and here are some highlights of my results. For the sake of a fair overview, I've included highlights from every article I read that seemed to support your point, and only some of those that didn't. Note that I didn't go through these with a fine-tooth comb, and skipped some of the ones that didn't look relevant, so my findings could be inaccurate. However, you are free to follow my methods and refute my findings:

Article: "A Matter of Integrity" (the one you originally suggested).
Overview: The author offers no hard evidence for a link between cheating in pre-med and dishonest practice, even saying "Whether there is a connection between the early professional environment [(pre-med)] and research fraud is unclear". The author does suggest that pre-med committees "pay more attention to the moral background" of applicants and that medical students who cheat should be expelled, but this is the author's personal opinion and offers no hard evidence for the link you suggest exists. Question: Did you read this article when you suggested it to me? There is literally no evidence in here to support your claim, and it even contradicts it to some extent.

Article: "Academic Dishonesty Today, Unethical Practices Tomorrow?"
Overview: From the author "This literature review does not provide enough evidence to concretely assume that nursing students who behave dishonestly in academia today will be unethical nurses tomorrow." Although, the author sees the potential for a link and calls for more research to be conducted. Read the article for more detail.

Article: "Does Academic Dishonesty Relate to Unethical Behavior in Professional Practice? An Exploratory Study*"
Overview: "Though statistical significance cannot be established due to small sample sizes, there is a clear trend in the data." AKA it looks like it might be true, but we need more research. Also, the context and methods suggest this isn't a good study to use as an example. High school students who were grouped in different cheating categories (frequent, never, etc.) were asked to say what they think they'd do in a situation. This is very different from actual "academic dishonesty implies professional misconduct" hypothesis, which is based on correlation between actual actions.

Article: I would love to tell you this, but I forgot to write it down and now I can't find it. It was on the PubMed search and had something to do with radiological something or other, so have at it.
Overview: This was a paper comparing faculty and student perceptions of academic dishonesty and unethical clinical work. There was no (that I saw) link suggested between undergraduate cheating, medical school cheating, and unethical clinical work. This article suggested three papers for a link between cheaters and unethical doctors. I could only access one of them (the following one), but feel free to find this paper and look up the other two and buoy your point.

Article: "Cheating by students: findings, reflections, and remedies".
Overview: The only actual evidence I could find in this one which supported your findings was that surveyed teachers thought that cheating remained constant from undergraduate to medical school, which is not viable evidence. I could have missed something, though, so feel free to correct me. This article suggested the following one for a link between unethical doctors and cheating undergrads/med students.

Article: "Cheating in Medical School"
Overview: This was an article which the previous article suggested as a source for a correlation between cheating in undergraduate, cheating in medical school, and unethical clinical work. This was actually the first one where a significant correlation between undergraduate cheating and medical school cheating was found, as well as between medical school cheating and unethical clinical work. However, there was no comparison with non-cheating undergraduates and cheating medical school students. I think it would be worthwhile to see this as a comparison. Interestingly, the article also stated that "transfer student status" was significantly correlated with cheating in medical school. So watch out all you dirty transfer students out there, @Goro has seen the evidence and is gonna prevent you from becoming a doctor!

So that ended my Lit search. I only went through 5 of the 6 pages I could find on PubMed, so I could have missed something on the last page. Note that these aren't all of the articles I read, but I did list all of them that seemed to contradict my view. Also, there are probably other articles outside of PubMed (judging from my scouring of sources in the articles I looked at), so I easily could have missed something.

What I've learned today is that you're right, @Goro, cheaters in undergrad ARE more likely to be unethical doctor. And even more interestingly, so are transfer students. So, I think the logical conclusion we can draw from this is that neither of them should be allowed to be doctors. If you have any more great papers @Goro, please indulge us.

 

[777137]

Question: have you ever unambiguously cheated? As in, done something that is clearly on the side of cheating -- not the gray area. I'm not getting personal, I do have a point in asking.

Its not directed at me, but I have not. I HAVE had people attempt to cheat OFF ME, though. I think I blew their mind when I started skipping around in the exam and answering random questions in no particular order. My school actually had a big scandal where when a professor left the room to grab a couple more exams, over half the class pulled out their phones to try and figure out some of the answers. Their excuse? The exam was too hard. Its OChem, what do you expect?

 

[joe_smo]

Question: have you ever unambiguously cheated? As in, done something that is clearly on the side of cheating -- not the gray area. I'm not getting personal, I do have a point in asking.

No.

 

[ZedsDed]

No.

I believe you.

OK then, why so cranky and sarcastic? You sound mad... Or maybe you're just hangry, IDK.

 

[freak7]

I believe you.

OK then, why so cranky and sarcastic? You sound mad... Or maybe you're just hangry, IDK.

I've got a Snickers on the ready!

 

[MetaGenomics1]

I am currently a freshman at a public university who was recently caught for academic dishonesty for having gotten answers for a notebook quiz in my Chemistry lab. I'm among several other hundred students who are receiving a zero for the assignment (another student posted the questions to the group me and I used them to write down the pertinent information in my notebook) but there will be no mark on my transcript.

How much of a deal breaker will this be for a med school should I maintain good grades, not receive any other such violation, and prove myself to be an honest, hard working student in the years to come?

I worked as a teaching associate and have caught multiple students cheating and given them zero/no scores. Unless your instructor filled out required paperwork, which doesn't seem like he did, then it's not going to be recalled in the future.