Accepted MD: 25R MCAT, 3.5 GPA, Good Letters of Rec

[bumboclot]

So I have been wanting to post here to hopefully help anyone. I applied for class of 2017 , a year ago. with a 25R mcat, and a 3.5 gpa. I had good LORs and was an athlete growing up. played professional sports abroad for some time. I applied for my first cycle, which would have been for the class of 2016 and was never given an interview. I applied really late.. didn't have anyone guiding me on timelines. but I reapplied first week in june and got interviews to 6 md programs and 12 DO programs. .I took every single interview and had to explain my deficiency in my mcat.. it wasn't easy. but after all was said and done, I got accepted to all 5/6 md programs and 10 of the 12 DO programs. I was always told that I could never do it by my advisor.. I had really bad test anxiety.. I know the material but struggled at first. now I am at an MD program in the South east, and have been doing very well. I struggled for the 1st month, but am now in the top 30 % of my class of over 120 students.. some of my colleagues that had 32+ mcats and a stellar gpa have dropped of failed the program.. and I am chugging along.. so for anyone that has similar stats, don't give up.. I am now a great candidate for what I want to do , and have become quite a student in med school .. I got a C in my first month module.. followed by 2 b's which carried me til Christmas.. and then A's the last semester of first year.. and now have finally gotten into my groove.

so keep on peeps. ONE LOVE

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[el_duderino]

Holy @$#^@. How did you get that many interviews with a 25? What were your ECs like?

 

[TxC]

just curious, are you from Florida?

 

[sashka1]

what ethnicity are you if you dont mind me asking? (i.e. are you URM?)
this gives us underdogs hope eitherway haha. amazing story

 

[bumboclot]

I was nervous giving my real numbers but hopefully it helps someone.. I am Asian descent actually.. and ii don't mind .. my extra currics were very good.. I worked in a medical clinic for some years, played sports in college and abroad, volunteered a crap ton, applied to a bunch of md programs..i did kill my savings applying to close to 30 md programs.. and the 6 that I interviewed at saw something in me.. so I am glad they did. its really hard getting an interview these days regardless, but I feel like I was up against an impossibility. just apply early.. apply broadly.. and it can happen. im doing great now in an MD program.. and mind you all the schools I interviewed at were not HBCs. they were not geared towards minorities ..

 

[solitarius]

Congrats, but I think your situation is more apt (and inspirational?) for the non-trad forum.

I just don't think med schools are going to cut that type of slack for the typical college senior --> 2 years out of graduation.

Yours is a great story, nonetheless.

 

[bumboclot]

thanks, and your probably right.. this forum has evolved since I used to use it for advice.. sorry if its in the wrong place.. I graduated a yr before entering in med school at age 23. so make sure to take into account I entered in at an older age.

 

[broken_gymnast]

I was horrified reading these forums (I literally just joined SDN) of people saying that others have no chance of getting in anywhere. But this gives me hope, thanks!

 

[zzxxzz]

I was nervous giving my real numbers but hopefully it helps someone.. I am Asian descent actually.. and ii don't mind .. my extra currics were very good.. I worked in a medical clinic for some years, played sports in college and abroad, volunteered a crap ton, applied to a bunch of md programs..

played professional sports abroad for some time.

Not to discourage people, but this is not your average applicant...

 

[mrh125]

Not to discourage people, but this is not your average applicant...

it's still nice to know that people with sub 30 mcats aren't doomed like SDN often makes them out to be, which often discourages the hell out of applicants.

 

[el_duderino]

it's still nice to know that people with sub 30 mcats aren't doomed like SDN often makes them out to be, which often discourages the hell out of applicants.

I don't get your constant negativity and bitterness when people are consistently telling you that you have a shot at MD. Come on, man. Quit polluting everyone's threads with this stuff.

 

[chemguy79]

Not to discourage people, but this is not your average applicant...

Precisely.

OP, I applaud your efforts for getting into MD school, but given your statistics and life experiences that can be gleamed from your posts on SDN, you are not an average applicant with middling scores.

If you are interested in inspiring others with your journey, I would recommend adding more specific information such as your clinical experiences, your activities, state of residency, list of programs at which you were a reapplicant to give a stronger picture of your application process.

 

[mrh125]

I don't get your constant negativity and bitterness when people are consistently telling you that you have a shot at MD. Come on, man. Quit polluting everyone's threads with this stuff.

:/. I get a lot of negativity as well. Im thankful for your positive advice and others, but the point still stands in this thread. We need to hear more success stories about those with low mcats. People with low gpas can do postbaccs like bryn mawr for medical school linkages, low mcat students have very little ground to stand on and options.

 

[el_duderino]

:/. I get a lot of negativity as well. Im thankful for your positive advice and others, but the point still stands in this thread. We need to hear more success stories about those with low mcats. People with low gpas can do postbaccs like bryn mawr for medical school linkages, low mcat students have very little ground to stand on and options.

So go and BE a success story instead of adding to the negativity you're complaining about.

 

[mrh125]

So go and BE a success story instead of adding to the negativity you're complaining about.

trust me, i'm working on it. If I become success story and even if I don't I will help and encourage those in similar situations to my own.

 

[darkjedi]

People with low gpas can do postbaccs like bryn mawr for medical school linkages, low mcat students have very little ground to stand on and options.

Postbacs like Bryn Mawr are for people who have been high performers with stellar GPAs but just lacking the premed requirements.

People with low MCATs always have the option to retake. Whether or not you can improve is up to you and your abilities, the same with GPA repair.

 

[LMBLBM]

So I have been wanting to post here to hopefully help anyone. I applied for class of 2017 , a year ago. with a 25R mcat, and a 3.5 gpa. I had good LORs and was an athlete growing up. played professional sports abroad for some time. I applied for my first cycle, which would have been for the class of 2016 and was never given an interview. I applied really late.. didn't have anyone guiding me on timelines. but I reapplied first week in june and got interviews to 6 md programs and 12 DO programs. .I took every single interview and had to explain my deficiency in my mcat.. it wasn't easy. but after all was said and done, I got accepted to all 5/6 md programs and 10 of the 12 DO programs. I was always told that I could never do it by my advisor.. I had really bad test anxiety.. I know the material but struggled at first. now I am at an MD program in the South east, and have been doing very well. I struggled for the 1st month, but am now in the top 30 % of my class of over 120 students.. some of my colleagues that had 32+ mcats and a stellar gpa have dropped of failed the program.. and I am chugging along.. so for anyone that has similar stats, don't give up.. I am now a great candidate for what I want to do , and have become quite a student in med school .. I got a C in my first month module.. followed by 2 b's which carried me til Christmas.. and then A's the last semester of first year.. and now have finally gotten into my groove.

so keep on peeps. ONE LOVE

Man you are one awesome guy

 

[zzxxzz]

it's still nice to know that people with sub 30 mcats aren't doomed like SDN often makes them out to be, which often discourages the hell out of applicants.

As a longtime lurker on SDN, my observation is that often the negative advice people receive on SDN is the first realistic advice they've received since high school. At my school, it was made clear from our first biology class that average students - and even many slightly above-average students - don't go to medical school. This discouraged a lot of people, but it also saved a lot of people years of work and thousands of dollars. Some applied anyway, and to this date, more than half the applicants I knew were never accepted anywhere.

Yes, more than 3/4 of people who take the MCAT get less than a 30. A number of them get accepted. The point isn't to beat up on people as much as make them ask themselves "what about me would make a school accept me over one of the 21,000 students who scored a 30+?" If you have a legit answer, apply away. If you don't, you're playing roulette.

I know two people who've been accepted with sub-30 MCAT scores. One was a first-team DI athlete in three different sports for four years and was involved in local politics. The other was a former soldier who had seen combat. That's it.

 

[mrh125]

As a longtime lurker on SDN, my observation is that often the negative advice people receive on SDN is the first realistic advice they've received since high school. At my school, it was made clear from our first biology class that average students - and even many slightly above-average students - don't go to medical school. This discouraged a lot of people, but it also saved a lot of people years of work and thousands of dollars. Some applied anyway, and to this date, more than half the applicants I knew were never accepted anywhere.

Yes, more than 3/4 of people who take the MCAT get less than a 30. A number of them get accepted. The point isn't to beat up on people as much as make them ask themselves "what about me would make a school accept me over one of the 21,000 students who scored a 30+?" If you have a legit answer, apply away. If you don't, you're playing roulette.

I know two people who've been accepted with sub-30 MCAT scores. One was a first-team DI athlete in three different sports for four years and was involved in local politics. The other was a former soldier who had seen combat. That's it.

There's a complete difference between discouragement and supposed realistic advice. Realistic advice is to put yourself in that person's situation and find reasonable ways to provide them solutions based off of the context provided. Realistic advice also require social skills that are often times be lacking in the responses people post here. Yes, there is brutal honesty involved but you don't embellish or over-exaggerate the negativity like is often times done here. There's a lot of extreme arrogance on this site where people assume that everyone should be able to get the score and "oh it's easy to get a 30+" and one person here went as far as to say that you if you can't pull above a 28 you have a learning disability, do you realize how insane that sounds and how factually inaccurate? Some SDN posters go beyond realistic expectations in threads for low mcat people and wipe the floor with them. You don't tell someone who's taken the mcat two times and cant break 30 to "go take it again" and claim they're making excuses and that if they can't make a 30 or above they're doomed to primary care. That's exceedingly short-sighted, arrogant, and downright misleading not to mention a ridiculous overgeneralization and in all honesty i've seen far more of that than anything. You give them other options and bridge the gap in their understanding and if you mention retaking the mcat as an option you explain why without all the thinly veiled narcissism and insults towards others which is the epitome of sdn 27-29 mcat related threads.

Realistic advice would also involve pointing out their strengths and encouraging their next steps, as well as acknowledging you don't know everything. If you see so much realistic advice and voice it, then it sure hasn't caught on because there's a hell of a lot more ****ty discouragement for others matched with self-inflation than realistic advice.

 

[mrh125]

Postbacs like Bryn Mawr are for people who have been high performers with stellar GPAs but just lacking the premed requirements.

People with low MCATs always have the option to retake. Whether or not you can improve is up to you and your abilities, the same with GPA repair.

Fair enough about bryn mawr, but those with low GPAs have options. Low mcat users are just told to retake. If you get a 29 and a 28, do you really expect to pull a 30 or more the next time? The statistical odds aren't in your favor and as such alternatives should be offered as well.

 

[WillburCobb]

Postbacs like Bryn Mawr are for people who have been high performers with stellar GPAs but just lacking the premed requirements.

People with low MCATs always have the option to retake. Whether or not you can improve is up to you and your abilities, the same with GPA repair.

Fair enough about bryn mawr, but those with low GPAs have options. Low mcat users are just told to retake. If you get a 29 and a 28, do you really expect to pull a 30 or more the next time? The statistical odds aren't in your favor and as such alternatives should be offered as well.

I think you missed the bolded part of @darkjedi 's comment.

 

[DrCharlemagne]

Fair enough about bryn mawr, but those with low GPAs have options. Low mcat users are just told to retake. If you get a 29 and a 28, do you really expect to pull a 30 or more the next time? The statistical odds aren't in your favor and as such alternatives should be offered as well.

Why? Why are you entitled to an admission anywhere? Why should "alternatives" be offered to students who cannot make the cut, and then are rude and insulting to those who provide reasonable advice (which you've received in droves, btw). If you cannot break a 30 on the MCAT for whatever reason, there is an alternate that is statistically in your favor: DO. You're the only one painting yourself into the MD corner, so no one wants to hear your whining about how the system is unfair to you.

 

[WillburCobb]

Why? Why are you entitled to an admission anywhere? Why should "alternatives" be offered to students who cannot make the cut, and then are rude and insulting to those who provide reasonable advice (which you've received in droves, btw). If you cannot break a 30 on the MCAT for whatever reason, there is an alternate that is statistically in your favor: DO. You're the only one painting yourself into the MD corner, so no one want to hear your whining about how the system is unfair to you.

To add onto this there are a number of MD schools where a 28-29 is well within range for applicants. I realize mrh is from CA but its nowhere near the issue he/she makes it out to be.

 

[mrh125]

Why? Why are you entitled to an admission anywhere? Why should "alternatives" be offered to students who cannot make the cut, and then are rude and insulting to those who provide reasonable advice (which you've received in droves, btw). If you cannot break a 30 on the MCAT for whatever reason, there is an alternate that is statistically in your favor: DO. You're the only one painting yourself into the MD corner, so no one want to hear your whining about how the system is unfair to you.

No entitlement here. In life there are always multiple ways to do the same thing and achieve your goals. If you can't perform well on the mcat, highlighting your strengths and working on other aspects of your application should be emphasized instead of making you confront the mcat again and again and working on the application to show your strengths and develop a context should be emphasized. DO is an alternative, but there is more than DO and retaking mcats if you can't make the cut. You also miss 100% of the shots you don't take so of course you wont get into med school with a 27-29 if you don't try and give it your best shots. n=1.

I think you missed the bolded part of @darkjedi 's comment.

He's referring to the mcat and gpa. I'm talking about abilities beyond standardized test scores and options. Low GPA students have a chance to excel and work in a different environment, as well as programs that I believe help remedy their lower mcat scores through intensive prep. A Low mcat student is just told to retake, instead of being talked to about what they can do to improve their application in another way. There is always more than one way to do things.

 

[zzxxzz]

The MCAT is a standard measure of your scientific aptitude, your comprehension to read and understand complex written works, and your ability to knuckle down and study long and hard for a very difficult test.

I might be wrong about this, but I think medical school involves a lot of that stuff too.

With a <30 score, you're basically telling medical schools "I do all of those things less well than the students you admit, but you should still admit me anyway."

It's not like you'll never get in if you don't have a 30, but when people ask for advice on strengthening their app, what do you expect people to say? Go publish a paper? Get a full-time job as a CNA or EMT? Time-wise, there isn't a quicker or (potentially) easier way to strengthen your app than to improve your score.

I don't think anyone who scores less than a 30 is stupid. It's a brutally hard test. But I'm not sure what medical schools think. Every premed student says they're smart. Everyone says they're hard-working, that they're dedicated and can handle med school. The MCAT is the proof.

 

[WillburCobb]

He's referring to the mcat and gpa. I'm talking about abilities beyond standardized test scores and options. Low GPA students have a chance to excel and work in a different environment, as well as programs that I believe help remedy their lower mcat scores through intensive prep. A Low mcat student is just told to retake, instead of being talked to about what they can do to improve their application in another way. There is always more than one way to do things.

Your initial argument was that people trying to overcome a low GPA have an advantage over those trying to overcome a low MCAT, which per you is unfair (given your situation). darkjedi pointed out that's not that case as it still comes down to the individual - which is true. As far as the options you allude to, people retaking the MCAT have options. These include critically assessing your previous prep, figuring out what went wrong and adjusting, tutors, different study material, any of the plethora of test prep services, MCAT prep that's offered by SMP and post-bacc programs, etc. When it comes to people facing low MCAT scores on here the decent advice is never "just retake." Many of the things I mentioned are brought up in more detail. Regarding improving other aspects of one's app regardless of GPA and MCAT is something that's discussed here ad nauseam, but there's only so much that can do in adjusting for one's academic and standardized test performance.

tl;dr - that 6 in VR makes sense.

 

[mrh125]

Your initial argument was that people trying to overcome a low GPA have an advantage over those trying to overcome a low MCAT, which per you is unfair (given your situation). darkjedi pointed out that's not that case as it still comes down to the individual - which is true. As far as the options you allude to, people retaking the MCAT have options. These include critically assessing your previous prep, figuring out what went wrong and adjusting, tutors, different study material, any of the plethora of test prep services, MCAT prep that's offered by SMP and post-bacc programs, etc. When it comes to people facing low MCAT scores on here the decent advice is never "just retake." Many of the things I mentioned are brought up in more detail. Regarding improving other aspects of one's app regardless of GPA and MCAT is something that's discussed here ad nauseam, but there's only so much that can do in adjusting for one's academic and standardized test performance.

tl;dr - that 6 in VR makes sense.

Yea it makes so much since you didn't even get the right number lmao. Almost all the options you alluded to involve retaking the mcat. There's more to the process than the mcat and if a person has a particularly strong suite in another aspect (a certain type of EC, publications, altruistic activity) there is also other advice you can provide them than your test oriented prep regardless of how much you want to dilute one option into many. You can have your circlejerk like it all you want, doesn't make it any less of a case. If the answer isn't just retake then why boil it down to just retaking the mcat?
you:
you can retake
you can figure out what went wrong and retake
you can take SMPs and retake
you can study again and retake
you can hire a tutor and retake
you can find more material of which there is only so much and retake

You can be realistic about test scores but still discuss actually other options of which there are many instead of limiting your advice to one narrow method that is insensitive to individual needs. Really all that does is sell others short and show a total lack of regard for others and their context. If that's your approach, god help you explaining to patients what to do with their treatments or any form of peer advising.

Not to mention most of this comment doesn't include the condescension and snarky comments that come with your advice, pal. If there's one thing I learned during my volunteering and know from my experiences is that there's always far more to the context than what you or the others I'm referring to provide. There's a lot a person can do and you can give them realistic expectations, while still addressing their needs and understanding them without the other crap. What happened to patient centralized care?

 

[WillburCobb]

Yea it makes so much since you didn't even get the right number lmao. Almost all the options you alluded to involve retaking the mcat. There's more to the process than the mcat and if a person has a particularly strong suite in another aspect (a certain type of EC, publications, altruistic activity) there is also other advice you can provide them than your test oriented prep regardless of how much you want to dilute one option into many. You can have your circlejerk like it all you want, doesn't make it any less of a case. If the answer isn't just retake then why boil it down to just retaking the mcat?
you:
you can retake
you can figure out what went wrong and retake
you can take SMPs and retake
you can study again and retake
you can hire a tutor and retake
you can find more material of which there is only so much and retake

You can be realistic about test scores but still discuss actually other options of which there are many instead of limiting your advice to one narrow method that is insensitive to individual needs. Really all that does is sell others short and show a total lack of regard for others and their context. If that's your approach, god help you explaining to patients what to do with their treatments or any form of peer advising.

Not to mention most of this comment doesn't include the condescension and snarky comments that come with your advice, pal.

Excuse me 7. Why I even keep trying with you...

 

[zzxxzz]

There's more to the process than the mcat and if a person has a particularly strong suite in another aspect (a certain type of EC, publications, altruistic activity)

None of which will actually help you succeed as a medical student in biochemistry and gross anatomy, let alone harder stuff.

A great MCAT score doesn't mean you'll be a good doctor. At all. What it DOES indicate is that you won't drop out halfway through M1.

What people are trying to convey is that the MCAT covers a specific set of criteria for analyzing your application that other aspects of your application do not cover, and which are very important. You spent your summers volunteering in Haiti? Shadowed until physicians got sick of you? Cool. None of that has anything to do with your potential success as a medical student.

You're an altruist? Good, but so is a decent percent of the general population. You're extremely dedicated to patient care? So are countless, PAs, nurses, and even EMTs and nurse aides.

Ultimately, medical school application comes down to two numbers. The point of ECs is to make your numbers stand out from the sea of similar numbers. But, barring extreme examples (like the OP), they don't make your numbers higher.

 

[mrh125]

None of which will actually help you succeed as a medical student in biochemistry and gross anatomy, let alone harder stuff.

A great MCAT score doesn't mean you'll be a good doctor. At all. What it DOES indicate is that you won't drop out halfway through M1.

What people are trying to convey is that the MCAT covers a specific set of criteria for analyzing your application that other aspects of your application do not cover, and which are very important. You spent your summers volunteering in Haiti? Shadowed until physicians got sick of you? Cool. None of that has anything to do with your potential success as a medical student.

You're an altruist? Good, but so is a decent percent of the general population. You're extremely dedicated to patient care? So are countless, PAs, nurses, and even EMTs and nurse aides.

Ultimately, medical school application comes down to two numbers. The point of ECs is to make your numbers stand out from the sea of similar numbers. But, barring extreme examples (like the OP), they don't make your numbers higher.

You're wording this in a much better and more respectful way and I appreciate it. Your advice is accurate to a large degree and I will admit that and I won't pretend I have all the answers, but not everyone is a strong standardized test taker or can develop that skill easily. If one is searching for alternate options and retakes haven't provided them what score they need, demonstrating a genuine passion, and showing your strengths can go a long way I believe. If you pursue a passion and really standout or do things in a unique way (there's a lot of qualities that people believe are unique and rare when they're really ubiquitous like desire to demonstrate altruism as you mentioned) or excel and show who you are I'm a firm believer that that you can do a lot. It obviously won't be enough to overcome a 10 on the mcat, but to a reasonable extent it can work. In my cases, that was showing that I'm a hard-worker. Although being a hard worker may not be unique. Driving across my state to many different schools daily in traffic to get the courses I need when premed courses weren't available to transfer to a 4-year shows hardwork and determination from a different perspective. You can show the more than a mcat can show and be proactive about your situation with mcat as well to a degree* by talking about how you plan to tackle standardized tests in the future.

When I advice others about their circumstances I always try to understand their situations and make recommendations based off of their strengths. Realism is needed, but at the same time there are other things you can work on to achieve your goals. Although, I don't think this is the best example ever: one of the best ER doctors I've ever worked with got a degree from the Caribbean 20 years ago (i'm not recommending anyone does that because caribbean schools are a bit of a dead end today to say the least) because his grades were poor, but he still found a way to practice medicine where he wanted and achieve his goals.

Do you see what i'm saying?

 

[Abstractions]

TLDR of everyone's advice: Medical school is a seller's market. They can pick and choose who they want and they don't care about a laundry list of excuses about why you "deserve" to be accepted. Either become a stronger applicant or deal with the consequences. Yes it may not be fair, but crying about inequalities isn't going to get you anywhere in life.

 

[mrh125]

TLDR of everyone's advice: Medical school is a seller's market. They can pick and choose who they want and they don't care about a laundry list of excuses about why you "deserve" to be accepted. Either become a stronger applicant or deal with the consequences. Yes it may not be fair, but crying about inequalities isn't going to get you anywhere in life.

Nope. It's less crying inequalities and more so realizing that there's other options that may allow you to achieve the same goal instead of traveling down the same old beaten path after it didn't work the previous few times.

 

[WillburCobb]

Nope. It's less crying inequalities and more so realizing that there's other options that may allow you to achieve the same goal instead of traveling down the same old beaten path after it didn't work the previous few times.

 

[zzxxzz]

I understand what you've been saying, I believe: you have your own unique story of trials you've faced, difficulties you've overcome, passions that drive you; you are, in affect, more than your MCAT score.

I completely agree with this sentiment. I believe - and hope - that medical school admission is this holistic. But here are my issues with this view:

1) A HUGE number of students can say the same thing. Everyone's had to overcome difficulties, everyone has a "sob story." No offense, but if you think commuting to different schools to take classes is impressive, you haven't heard many stories. I had a bunch of random, crappy things happen to me as an undergrad too. Medical schools don't really care. My buddy's mother died suddenly - as in, dropped dead - junior year, and his preparation suffered. Medical schools didn't care. A friend withdrew from the same prereq class twice, in two different years, and finally finished it senior year with an A. Medical schools didn't see that as a triumph of determination, they saw it as the flailings of a poorly-prepared student.

2) There's no guarantee you'll get a chance to tell your story. Unless you can write an incredible personal statement about your tribulations and intangible strengths, many medical schools will put a <30 app in the circular file (after collecting your secondary fee). Medical schools look at your numbers first, then make a decision whether or not to review your file at all. That's how it works at most schools.

And finally, 3) You still - really, honestly - have no excuse for your MCAT score. What I mean: say you do get an interview somewhere, walk into an office and see the three adcoms (or whatever) staring at you, etc. First question: "tell us about yourself." Second question: "why didn't you score higher on the MCAT?" I know people who scored 30s who got asked that. Are you really going to tell them that you struggle with standardized tests, and "about how you plan to tackle standardized tests in the future?" They'll ask you why you didn't implement those plans sooner to do better on the MCAT!


I appreciate the fact that you see my comments as respectful; I intend them that way. Here are some (rhetorical) questions that I hope you will see as equally respectful, however harsh they may sound:
Why don't you want to re-take the MCAT? Are you worried you won't do better?
Do you see a failure to score above 30 as purely due to issues with standardized tests, or are you sure you know the material as well as your premed peers?
Are you truly confident that you can be successful in courses that are significantly harder than those covered on the MCAT?
And the most important: Knowing that average applicants don't get into medical school, what makes you an above-average applicant?

Don't answer those questions here. Answer them to yourself, as any student in your position should, and carefully consider your answers.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Are you truly confident that you can be successful in courses that are significantly harder than those covered on the MCAT?

Are you a med student? I am asking you that because most medical students will not ask @mrh125 this particular (rhetorical) question knowing that he/she got 27+ mcat.

 

[WillburCobb]

Are you a med student? I am asking you that because most medical students will not ask @mrh125 this particular (rhetorical) question knowing that he/she got 27+ mcat.

I was actually asked this at 5/6 interviews, 3 of which were at DO schools, and I had a balanced 32.
Edit -3 of the times it was asked by a med student.

 

[mrh125]

I understand what you've been saying, I believe: you have your own unique story of trials you've faced, difficulties you've overcome, passions that drive you; you are, in affect, more than your MCAT score.

I completely agree with this sentiment. I believe - and hope - that medical school admission is this holistic. But here are my issues with this view:

1) A HUGE number of students can say the same thing. Everyone's had to overcome difficulties, everyone has a "sob story." No offense, but if you think commuting to different schools to take classes is impressive, you haven't heard many stories. I had a bunch of random, crappy things happen to me as an undergrad too. Medical schools don't really care. My buddy's mother died suddenly - as in, dropped dead - junior year, and his preparation suffered. Medical schools didn't care. A friend withdrew from the same prereq class twice, in two different years, and finally finished it senior year with an A. Medical schools didn't see that as a triumph of determination, they saw it as the flailings of a poorly-prepared student.

2) There's no guarantee you'll get a chance to tell your story. Unless you can write an incredible personal statement about your tribulations and intangible strengths, many medical schools will put a <30 app in the circular file (after collecting your secondary fee). Medical schools look at your numbers first, then make a decision whether or not to review your file at all. That's how it works at most schools.

And finally, 3) You still - really, honestly - have no excuse for your MCAT score. What I mean: say you do get an interview somewhere, walk into an office and see the three adcoms (or whatever) staring at you, etc. First question: "tell us about yourself." Second question: "why didn't you score higher on the MCAT?" I know people who scored 30s who got asked that. Are you really going to tell them that you struggle with standardized tests, and "about how you plan to tackle standardized tests in the future?" They'll ask you why you didn't implement those plans sooner to do better on the MCAT!


I appreciate the fact that you see my comments as respectful; I intend them that way. Here are some (rhetorical) questions that I hope you will see as equally respectful, however harsh they may sound:
Why don't you want to re-take the MCAT? Are you worried you won't do better?
Do you see a failure to score above 30 as purely due to issues with standardized tests, or are you sure you know the material as well as your premed peers?
Are you truly confident that you can be successful in courses that are significantly harder than those covered on the MCAT?
And the most important: Knowing that average applicants don't get into medical school, what makes you an above-average applicant?

Don't answer those questions here. Answer them to yourself, as any student in your position should, and carefully consider your answers.

Thank you for your post. You bring up some really good points. I have a question for you: How would you suggest addressing a low mcat score if asked about it, since it's a major toe-stubber if I respond by talking about struggling on standardized tests? The only thing I got is that I was sick with the swine flu the first time I took it and got sick again the second time as well though i'm not sure how they affected my score but both were really nasty. though that may be in the more excuse line of thought which wont fly.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I was actually asked this at 5/6 interviews, 3 of which were DO schools, and I had a balanced 32.
Edit -3 of the times it was asked by a med student.

Of course they got to ask you question like that in a formal interview. I was asked the same question multiple times as well, but not the way @zzxxzz put it: 'Oh you got only [insert a score] in the mcat, do you think you can handle the amount and the depth of materials that will be covered in med school'. My point is that they probably ask most people that question, but they will hardly make a blatant correlation with your mcat score as most med students should know someone with a 27+ is (or should be) capable to handle the curriculum. In fact, DO schools average is bit lower than 27.

 

[Beth_W737]

Actually it's only the new DO schools that are lower. Most of the older and upper tier schools are 28-31.

 

[V5RED]

Another thread has become mrh bitching about the MCAT and how anyone telling him to retake is not offering helpful advice. Fantastic.

I like to bake. At a staff party, my sugar cookies were considered the best cookies at the party. Other people brought very elaborately decorated cookies that looked awesome, but they got the cookies under all that decoration from a box or from some store bought dough. Mine were completely from scratch using fresh ingredients and a good recipe. I did not put any sort of decoration on my cookies becsuse the cookies spoke for themselves. Their cookies were fine, but next to mine they fell short.

You seem to want to find a way to put enough decorations on your application to distract MD programs from the fact that the cookie underneath is not up to their usual standards. Sometimes this works, but the decorations have to be freaking incredible (like OP's were). A pretty personal statement and flowery letters of recommendation will not suffice.

 

[el_duderino]

One of the things I see repeatedly on this forum is people struggling with the concept that they're not as special as they've always believed.

 

[yankees527]

We need more posts like this, instead of the typical "what are my chances? I have a 3.9 gpa, and a 38 mcat, but I have no social skills and do nothing besides school work"
People, there's more to being a good doctor than standardized testing and grades (and no I'm not saying a 2.2 gpa and 14 mcat means you can still succeed in medical school)

 

[chemguy79]

We need more posts like this, instead of the typical "what are my chances? I have a 3.9 gpa, and a 38 mcat, but I have no social skills and do nothing besides school work"
People, there's more to being a good doctor than standardized testing and grades (and no I'm not saying a 2.2 gpa and 14 mcat means you can still succeed in medical school)

The OP's numbers, according to the graphs here (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/), gave him less than a 15% chance of acceptance to medical school. However, the OP seems to have a rather unique list of experiences (which he has not expanded upon) which greatly contributed to his application and subsequent acceptances.

Therefore, while standardized testing and grades aren't the only things that contribute to a successful application, they ARE key components. Regardless of how one tries to frame the application process, one needs certain things (strong standardized test scores and grades) to be successful.

 

[yankees527]

The OP's numbers, according to the graphs here (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/), gave him less than a 15% chance of acceptance to medical school. However, the OP seems to have a rather unique list of experiences (which he has not expanded upon) which greatly contributed to his application and subsequent acceptances.

Therefore, while standardized testing and grades aren't the only things that contribute to a successful application, they ARE key components. Regardless of how one tries to frame the application process, one needs certain things (strong standardized test scores and grades) to be successful.

Hence my comment in parenthesis.

 

[chemguy79]

My caveat is that the OP merely stated his numbers without expanding upon anything else that contributed to his application; Therefore, the post doesn't really contribute much in showing that "there's more to being a good doctor than standardized testing and grades."

 

[zzxxzz]

The OP's numbers, according to the graphs here (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/), gave him less than a 15% chance of acceptance to medical school. However, the OP seems to have a rather unique list of experiences (which he has not expanded upon) which greatly contributed to his application and subsequent acceptances.

Therefore, while standardized testing and grades aren't the only things that contribute to a successful application, they ARE key components. Regardless of how one tries to frame the application process, one needs certain things (strong standardized test scores and grades) to be successful.

These are the points people have been trying to highlight in this thread. The point of this thread isn't that OP got in with a 25; it's that he presented an unusual application that was strong despite his 25.

As I said a few posts ago, I know two people who got in with <30s. One had active duty military experience and had risked his life to save others. The other somehow found time to be pre-med while playing 3 DI sports, being president of a number of campus organizations, and being active in local politics. He was a natural, charismatic leader who made people want to follow him.

I know other people who applied with <30s. One had 3 pubs. Didn't get an interview. One was a first-generation American who worked his way through private high school and college. Got one interview where they basically told him to re-take the MCAT.

Takehome message: mere mortals don't often get in without a decent MCAT. The OP wasn't an average applicant. Some of the others replying to this thread appear to be more so.

 

[Goro]

I'll wade in here by saying firstly that I am very happy about OP's success. This is a key illustration that there's more to an applicant than raw numbers. This is a good thing.

Now the caveats:

Firstly, OP is a major exception to the rule. One can't place one's bets on outliers. OP apparently had a really complelling life story, which I have seen can trump uncompetitive numbers.

There's a difference bertween being realistic and being a rah-rah Pollyanna. People come here for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses.

People win the Lotto too, but that doesn't mean we should all rush out and buy tickets.

There is credible evidence that low MCAT scores (lower than OP's 25) correlate with Board failure and failing to complete medical school.

So there's a reason why we look at numbers. But we can't AND DON'T simply look at numbers alone.

OP: GOOD LUCK AND CONGRATS!

We need more posts like this, instead of the typical "what are my chances? I have a 3.9 gpa, and a 38 mcat, but I have no social skills and do nothing besides school work"
People, there's more to being a good doctor than standardized testing and grades (and no I'm not saying a 2.2 gpa and 14 mcat means you can still succeed in medical school)

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Actually it's only the new DO schools that are lower. Most of the older and upper tier schools are 28-31.

DO average is little bit less than 27. Period. That was not a shot at DO... It's like saying that upper tier MD schools have 35+, but that does not negate the fact that MD average MCAT is about 31... Some MD schools (PR and HBCU schools) have 22-25 average MCAT. There will be always some school with low average in both sides.

 

[TxC]

Guys, I'm pretty nervous. So far I'm a really competitive applicant (what I've been told by an admissions committee member). Decent (>3.8) GPA, great research experiences (will have a pub. soon), a pretty powerful story (I'll spare you the details), tons of volunteering experience (I love helping people), and I'm an URM from a very underserved area. Right now I'm waiting for my MCAT scores and I'm terrified I will receive below a 30. A couple of my practice tests were right below a 30, and I'm scared I might get that on the actual exam, mostly because I applied only to really strong schools. Do I have a chance in hell of getting in if I score below a 30???

Your chances honestly may not be that bad. Sounds like you got solid EC's and that's a good GPA.

Check out these tables: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

Good luck!
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html