Active Duty Military Help Please!

[SaltySailor]

Hey everyone,

I posted this in the post-bacc section of this forum but didn't get much of a response so perhaps this is a better section of the forum to post this question in.

I'm 29 and have a 2.9 GPA in English from a top 20 school, (yeah, I know...) My goal is to enter into a US based medical school, (preferably MD, but at this point I suppose I'll have to consider the DO route as well).

I've worked as a military officer for almost 4 years now and really do not enjoy it. I tried asking one of my bosses for a letter and he said, "that really is not a good idea...". I'm not interested in becoming a doctor in the military.

So, given the fact that I have no letters of recommendation and a very low undergrad GPA, I'd be unable to apply for a post-bacc program.

At this point, what should I do now? I've tried researching various other post-bacc programs that are not on the competitive side, but all of them require a 3.0 GPA or at least 2 letters of rec. Another member on this forum told me that the post bacc program at CSU East Bay is very easy to get into, but I'd really like not to go there because it's in California and I want to get outside California. The cycle never seems to end The good news is I have the post-9/11 GI bill which pays for all instate schools and most private schools, so money should not be a problem if I should ever get accepted to a school.

I'd really appreciate some advice on this topic, as I'm stuck and not sure what else to do. Currently, I'm searching through the dozens of post-bacc programs listed on https://apps.aamc.org/postbac trying to find ones that would accept someone like me I was really hoping my military experience would give me a slight edge in the application process.

If anyone could give me some advice on what to do next, that would be great! Thanks!

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[Eccesignum]

You don't have to do a structured post-bac program. I'd wager most people don't. It's perfectly acceptable to just enroll in university as a non-degree seeking student and simply take pre-req + some upper div science classes. Since you have an English degree I'm guessing you have very few, if any, college-level science courses, so your sGPA is likely going to be easy to bring up if you do well.

Definitely look into DO, as you can use grade replacement for classes you took during your English degree to boost your cGPA. If you can get your cumulative over 3.0 you may have a shot at MD but like most of us coming from a low-GPA start you'll need to cast a very wide net.

There are several threads on this forum for people coming back from sub-3.0 cGPAs. I'd advise browsing through them. There's a lot of hard-earned wisdom in there.

 

[trev5150]

You don't care about letters from your chain anyway. FTN. You need letters from professors in your post-bacc, docs that you will shadow, places you get significant meaningful clinical experience at and people you participate in research with.

And BTW if you "have to consider DO as well" you're not gonna be happy, and they're gonna smell it on you.

Lastly, if your betters are telling you not to ask for a letter of recommendation it's because you've got some things going against you that you really need to dig deep down and ask yourself about. Re-reading your post it seems to me that you've got an attitude issue that you have not been able to keep contained, has been noticed and not looked well upon. You're probably getting rated low, your naval career is a dead end, you're not getting promoted with your peers and your looking for options. Your first diagnosis is yourself and what happened and how to prevent it in the future.

 

[deleted480308]

Sign up as a non-degree seeking (or if you need to for fafsa name a bogus second degree to seek)...then start taking the pre-reqs, fill in the gaps in time with retakes of your old grades that were F/D/C....then once your prereqs are done take the mcat, ONLY after taking an assesment and scoring well. Meantime, find a DO to shadow for ~20hrs

With that GPA, statistics say you really need to pattern yourself for a DO app, MD isn't likely.

 

[SaltySailor]

Thank you for your reply! How does the grade replacement policy work for DO? As an English major, I never took any science courses. I'm assuming I'd have to retake the English courses I didn't do well in in order to "replace" the bad grades? I'm not sure this would be very beneficial for getting into med school, assuming adcoms don't care about non-science classes. Do all universities offer the ability to enroll as a non-degree seeking student?

 

[trev5150]

As a non degree seeker you would have last priority for registration. However as a veteran you may have first priority. Be sure to ask the registrar about that.

 

[trev5150]

You have 15 years to use the GI Bill. I would not squander any of it on post-bacc. Save it for medical school.

 

[deleted480308]

Thank you for your reply! How does the grade replacement policy work for DO? As an English major, I never took any science courses. I'm assuming I'd have to retake the English courses I didn't do well in in order to "replace" the bad grades? I'm not sure this would be very beneficial for getting into med school, assuming adcoms don't care about non-science classes. Do all universities offer the ability to enroll as a non-degree seeking student?

yes, all allow you to register as non-degree seeking
with minimum cutoffs, if you don't retake a few classes very few schools will see your application

you'll need to google a bit for the details on exactly how the grade replacement works, I don't have the pdf handy

 

[KLBMed]

I'm in a similar situation. I'm active duty and graduated from a Service Academy with a 3.07. I recently reached out to the pre-med advisor from my alma mater. He was really receptive and even told me that he is more than happy to provide a committee LOR if I want one. He also encouraged me to reach out to former professors. I'm 8 years removed, but he said I would be surprised at how enthusiastic some profs are.
I've asked my former boss (an O-5) for a LOR for my post bacc apps this fall and he agreed. I haven't asked my current CO (trying to keep it close to he hip) but I plan to. If your skipper won't write one, maybe asking a DH?
As far as programs for post bac, I plan to cast a wide net. Plenty of "name brand schools", but also some smaller programs and post bac programs more popular for DO schools. Don't knock the DO route.
Be prepared to discuss the reasons for your "below average" undergrad gpa minus any excuses. Good luck!

 

[SaltySailor]

KLBMed,

Thanks for your reply. I may get a LOR from one of my DH's but I'm not sure if I should ask him yet. What DO post bacc's are you applying to?

 

[deleted480308]

KLBMed,

Thanks for your reply. I may get a LOR from one of my DH's but I'm not sure if I should ask him yet. What DO post bacc's are you applying to?

quick shoutout for Campbell having one...

 

[MusicDOc124]

Why won't s/he wrote you a letter, or why does s/he think it's not a good idea?

If you majored in English, when did you get interested in medicine, and why do you seemingly have a bias against DO programs, which are the only programs that may give you a look assuming you utilize grade replacement?

The post baccs you're looking at on AAMC are for MD programs, there is also a list for DO programs that you should look into. I'll post a link later if you don't find it before I get to a computer.

Your best bet is a post bacc at a medical school, or retake courses for grade replacement (DO only).

As a vet, I highly recommend saving your GI Bill for Med school, unless you qualify for Voc Rehab. Depending on what ailments you may have to qualify for Voc Rehab, it COULD be beneficial to start using GI Bill sooner, and voc rehab for Med school, but this is a very particular program, in which I cover quite a bit of detail on this forum already.

Military will give you a bit of edge here and there - even if it's just something to talk about at an interview, but if you don't have the grades, it won't do anything for you.


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[Brancer]

Why won't s/he wrote you a letter, or why does s/he think it's not a good idea?

Because the military brings out the most closed minded people. I was mocked incessantly for daring to think I had what it took to get into medical school, while I was in. "Reenlist, or you will fail" was the mantra.

Either way, there should be someone in your COC that can write an LOR for you, and I would advise a structured post bac program, specifically because you do not have any science classes and you already have a low GPA. This can only help you, as it will tailor the material directly to what you need to get in, and many post bac programs have partnerships with medical schools that grant you an instant interview if you score above X.XX GPA. Its worth looking into.

And yes, it's said that the military buffer is the equivalent of adding 5 MCAT points to your score. It won't excuse crappy performance though, so beware, but it will give you a massive shiny on your application.

Thank you for your service.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Because the military brings out the most closed minded people. I was mocked incessantly for daring to think I had what it took to get into medical school, while I was in. "Reenlist, or you will fail" was the mantra.

That has been the opposite of my experience. I have been to two different commands, and my COC has been extremely supportive at both commands.

And yes, it's said that the military buffer is the equivalent of adding 5 MCAT points to your score. It won't excuse crappy performance though, so beware, but it will give you a massive shiny on your application.

Thank you for your service.

Good to know.

 

[Brancer]

That has been the opposite of my experience. I have been to two different commands, and my COC has been extremely supportive at both commands.

The Nuclear/Submarine community isn't that friendly. Of course it could be different for others. We only get to comment of what part of the farm we see. Some see the beautiful fields, and other see the cow turds. Glad your experience was wholesome.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The Nuclear/Submarine community isn't that friendly. Of course it could be different for others. We only get to comment of what part of the farm we see. Some see the beautiful fields, and other see the cow turds. Glad your experience was wholesome.

Yeah, I'm in the surface community. Sorry your experience sucked. I wouldn't say mine was wholesome, but it hasn't been awful.

 

[ZX10R]

And yes, it's said that the military buffer is the equivalent of adding 5 MCAT points to your score. It won't excuse crappy performance though, so beware, but it will give you a massive shiny on your application.

That's not true for the majority of schools especially Top 20. You can't get a 33 on the MCAT and expect to get into WASHU with that; you need research, LORs ect. You're going to be competing against other vets that have those stats. Anecdotally, all the vets at my school have Average or above ave MCAT for my school which is >33.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Because the military brings out the most closed minded people. I was mocked incessantly for daring to think I had what it took to get into medical school, while I was in. "Reenlist, or you will fail" was the mantra.

Either way, there should be someone in your COC that can write an LOR for you, and I would advise a structured post bac program, specifically because you do not have any science classes and you already have a low GPA. This can only help you, as it will tailor the material directly to what you need to get in, and many post bac programs have partnerships with medical schools that grant you an instant interview if you score above X.XX GPA. Its worth looking into.

And yes, it's said that the military buffer is the equivalent of adding 5 MCAT points to your score. It won't excuse crappy performance though, so beware, but it will give you a massive shiny on your application.

Thank you for your service.

That wasn't my experience either. My CO wrote a letter for me, as my MO did and my senior enlisted. Though, I won't disagree necessarily because I have seen the side you speak of - "reenlist or fail," but it's certainly not entirely across the board.

As for the +5 MCAT points, I've never heard of that - nor experienced that. Where my military experience came into play was in the interview, but that would affect more subjective decisions from the interviewing committee as opposed to objective, where scores come into play.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That wasn't my experience either. My CO wrote a letter for me, as my MO did and my senior enlisted. Though, I won't disagree necessarily because I have seen the side you speak of - "reenlist or fail," but it's certainly not entirely across the board.

As for the +5 MCAT points, I've never heard of that - nor experienced that. Where my military experience came into play was in the interview, but that would affect more subjective decisions from the interviewing committee as opposed to objective, where scores come into play.

That's what I was banking on. I didn't really write about it in my PS because I'm sure it'll come up in interviews, and I have a lot to talk about there.

 

[Brancer]

OK, I'll play...these are just my own opinion.

- URM +5
- Financially very disadvantaged <20K/yr household +1-2
- military service +5

This was the source of the info, from an adcom member's opinion. No more, no less. But at least it gives kind of an insight as to whats considered. Of course its all subjective.

My CO turned into a 2 star admiral, and offered to write an LOR for me. However, that was after I separated. While I was in, I had no support on any future other than the future the Navy envisioned. But that was an n=1 anecdotal example. YMMV.

 

[trev5150]

The Nuclear/Submarine community isn't that friendly. Of course it could be different for others. We only get to comment of what part of the farm we see. Some see the beautiful fields, and other see the cow turds. Glad your experience was wholesome.

There's a saying that the grass is always greener over the septic tank.

 

[ArizonaVet480]

I LOVED THE MILITARY HOOAHHHHH

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This was the source of the info, from an adcom member's opinion. No more, no less. But at least it gives kind of an insight as to whats considered. Of course its all subjective.

My CO turned into a 2 star admiral, and offered to write an LOR for me. However, that was after I separated. While I was in, I had no support on any future other than the future the Navy envisioned. But that was an n=1 anecdotal example. YMMV.

My CO recently told the whole crew that the Navy has to always come first, even before family. We were all like lolwut?

 

[CockerelOnTop]

I am on AD and haven't had issue. I did contact my top 8 schools and ask their preference given my experience and previous schooling for pre-reqs. While we are in very different fields, I was told a post-bacc wasn't much more favorable than piecing it together as a non-degree seeking student.

Also, I second the idea to save your GI Bill for med-school. In case you are as fortunate as I am and commissioned in Texas, you will qualify for the Hazelwood Act that covers Tuition and Fees.
#TexasForever ;-)

 

[alpinism]

This was the source of the info, from an adcom member's opinion. No more, no less. But at least it gives kind of an insight as to whats considered. Of course its all subjective.

My CO turned into a 2 star admiral, and offered to write an LOR for me. However, that was after I separated. While I was in, I had no support on any future other than the future the Navy envisioned. But that was an n=1 anecdotal example. YMMV.

Just remember, that's only 1 adcom member's opinion.

Not only that but Goro is a DO adcom and they're way more nontrad/military friendly than almost all MD adcoms.

If you're a military vet with a 30 MCAT (no idea what a 30 equals for the new MCAT) you're likely to end up very disappointed if you apply to schools with a 35 average.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Just remember, that's only 1 adcom member's opinion.

Not only that but Goro is a DO adcom and they're way more nontrad/military friendly than almost all MD adcoms.

If you're a military vet with a 30 MCAT (no idea what a 30 equals for the new MCAT) you're likely to end up very disappointed if you apply to schools with a 35 average.

Unless you're a vet with a Navy Cross or something.

 

[MusicDOc124]

If s/he had that, I'm sure there wouldn't be problems with getting an LOR though (or so I would hope).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If s/he had that, I'm sure there wouldn't be problems with getting an LOR though (or so I would hope).

Yeah, I was just saying that short of a crazy award, vet status is likely to be only a good soft.