Active Duty to Med School Advice

[LTJC]

Hey all,

Currently active duty Air Force officer, looking for anyone with previous experience under any similar conditions. Background: Undergrad BS Chemistry; 3.2 GPA, [In progress] M.S.; Space Systems, Military job: Space Operations. My commitment will be up in fall 2018, and I think I'm ready to finally go forth with life ambitions, and pursue a career in the medical field.

My current plan is to make MCAT prep as a part-time job, and test in late winter/spring 2017, and if I do well, shotgun apply to schools to start in fall of 2018. My specific questions regarding prep can be well answered in other areas, so my main question is in regards to your military leadership. When did you approach them to let them know your goals were outside the military? How receptive were they? I've been told, "if you're going to get out--never tell your commander, because you're just shooting yourself in the foot," but as someone who supervises other folks, I always ask my guys/gals just keep me informed--good or bad. I feel not disclosing my plans/goals with them is sort of shady, for lack of a better term.

I toyed with the idea of rushing to take the test in Sept '16, and finish a rushed application by the 1 Nov deadline for most schools I would like to apply to, however I think with such a low relative GPA, and being several years removed from relevant undergrad courses, I need more time to best prepare to perform well on the MCAT. Also, I'm currently deployed somewhere in the Middle East until late summer, so I would say my preparation wouldn't be optimal.

Any previous active duty folks--anything else you could add about working with your leadership for various waivers, requesting a recommendation, obscure programs the general population has never heard of, or anything related? All insight appreciated!

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[xffan624]

Hey all,

Currently active duty Air Force officer, looking for anyone with previous experience under any similar conditions. Background: Undergrad BS Chemistry; 3.2 GPA, [In progress] M.S.; Space Systems, Military job: Space Operations. My commitment will be up in fall 2018, and I think I'm ready to finally go forth with life ambitions, and pursue a career in the medical field.

My current plan is to make MCAT prep as a part-time job, and test in late winter/spring 2017, and if I do well, shotgun apply to schools to start in fall of 2018. My specific questions regarding prep can be well answered in other areas, so my main question is in regards to your military leadership. When did you approach them to let them know your goals were outside the military? How receptive were they? I've been told, "if you're going to get out--never tell your commander, because you're just shooting yourself in the foot," but as someone who supervises other folks, I always ask my guys/gals just keep me informed--good or bad. I feel not disclosing my plans/goals with them is sort of shady, for lack of a better term.

I toyed with the idea of rushing to take the test in Sept '16, and finish a rushed application by the 1 Nov deadline for most schools I would like to apply to, however I think with such a low relative GPA, and being several years removed from relevant undergrad courses, I need more time to best prepare to perform well on the MCAT. Also, I'm currently deployed somewhere in the Middle East until late summer, so I would say my preparation wouldn't be optimal.

Any previous active duty folks--anything else you could add about working with your leadership for various waivers, requesting a recommendation, obscure programs the general population has never heard of, or anything related? All insight appreciated!

1. Don't apply until you're actually ready to get out. Applying this year will put you for a summer 2017 (most schools start around August) start. Which you have said your obligation is until Fall 2018 so that would either require a waiver from the military or a deferment from your school. Either one you shouldn't plan to have to get. Wait a year. Get your ducks in row as far as MCAT goes and get an early application in. Military service and good MCAT will help offset a bad GPA. I had a slightly higher GPA than you, but still far under norms. I managed a pretty good MCAT that helped to support my application.

2. Apply for disability when you get out. Read the other thread on the non-trad tread post 9/11 GI bill and voc rehab. Both of which can be used to help pay for school.

3. You didn't mention clinical experience. If you don't have it, then you need to get some prior to any application.

4. Regarding recommendations, you should have at least one professor recommendation. Since you're a non-trad the rest can come from supervisors. I asked my senior rater for recommendations and previous boss before I joined the military. If you have any physician connections in your job, you should definitely try to get one from them.

 

[trev5150]

Unless you're dying to get out if the AF don't dismiss USUHS as an option. I would seriously consider that if I were in your shoes. Considering the time you've already put in, and assuming you've got good fitreps, you should be good to go. You still have to build a decent portfolio of clinical exposure and that's probably impossible to do on AD.

Also as a chem major did you get the minimum requirements for biology with lab?

The M.S. in Space Systems is pretty useless so you'll either have to finish that or be prepared to explain why you didn't. That said, you have a diversity of experience that will be found as interesting if not terribly relevant. I myself was a UAS guy in and out of the service. It's all part of your overall story.

 

[LTJC]

1. Don't apply until you're actually ready to get out. Applying this year will put you for a summer 2017 (most schools start around August) start. Which you have said your obligation is until Fall 2018 so that would either require a waiver from the military or a deferment from your school. Either one you shouldn't plan to have to get. Wait a year. Get your ducks in row as far as MCAT goes and get an early application in. Military service and good MCAT will help offset a bad GPA. I had a slightly higher GPA than you, but still far under norms. I managed a pretty good MCAT that helped to support my application.

2. Apply for disability when you get out. Read the other thread on the non-trad tread post 9/11 GI bill and voc rehab. Both of which can be used to help pay for school.

3. You didn't mention clinical experience. If you don't have it, then you need to get some prior to any application.

4. Regarding recommendations, you should have at least one professor recommendation. Since you're a non-trad the rest can come from supervisors. I asked my senior rater for recommendations and previous boss before I joined the military. If you have any physician connections in your job, you should definitely try to get one from them.

Thanks for the reply. I'll heed the advice in my planning. Failed to mention in the time between now and whenever a hopeful start date is, my goals are to live like a peasant and save as much money as possible, and to make attempts to get some clinical experience at either my base or local hospital. As of right now, I'm not eligible for any sort of GI Bill due to a college scholarship commitment, but the disability rec is common prior to getting out regardless of academic plans. If you don't mind me asking, what branch were you in/how did the process work for you?

 

[LTJC]

Unless you're dying to get out if the AF don't dismiss USUHS as an option. I would seriously consider that if I were in your shoes. Considering the time you've already put in, and assuming you've got good fitreps, you should be good to go. You still have to build a decent portfolio of clinical exposure and that's probably impossible to do on AD.

Also as a chem major did you get the minimum requirements for biology with lab?

The M.S. in Space Systems is pretty useless so you'll either have to finish that or be prepared to explain why you didn't. That said, you have a diversity of experience that will be found as interesting if not terribly relevant. I myself was a UAS guy in and out of the service. It's all part of your overall story.

I've contacted USUHS in regards to their program, they have listed they accept active duty, however the details on their site were a little vague. I'm mainly interested if I retain my rank and grade achieved, and if I would be eligible for promotion while there. I'm assuming I would retain rank, but forfeit my grade and not be eligible for promotion. Also looking to find out how the years before/during school would count into my total time in service on the back end. I'm waiting to hear back from them, if anyone out there is interested and in the same shoes as me, I can pass on the information they send to me. As far as prerequisites, yes, I have all of my undergraduate courses squared away. I was pre-med for my undergraduate, so those boxes are checked. As far as remembering all that knowledge.. well.. that's what the additional study time is for.

 

[LTJC]

I don't think you'll be promotable while in school since you're not being rated against your former MOS peer group anymore. I'm a Marine, no idea how the AF does things. I assume it's just as unnecessarily convoluted, but different.

I think it will be difficult, but not impossible. From different threads on this forum, it seems getting out of any obligations is very dependent on your career field, and their outlook on manning. Also, there is the route of applying for HPSP, which seems to be a pretty confusing pathway but there are some good posts on here about the process. Alas, all of this starts with getting a decent MCAT score to bring to the discussion with leadership. One goal at a time for now.

 

[LTJC]

I don't think you'll be promotable while in school since you're not being rated against your former MOS peer group anymore. I'm a Marine, no idea how the AF does things. I assume it's just as unnecessarily convoluted, but different.

I'm also just assuming I wouldn't be eligible for any promotions, the old butter bar pay ain't too bad though!

 

[Marine2MD]

You will resign your commission and rank in order to attend USUHS if you are accepted. However, there was a bill passed that allowed you to retain your rank for pay purposes only. So you would go through wearing O1 but get paid as whatever you are now. You are not eligible for promotion during medical school and those 4 years do not add to your TIS/TIG. The four years of school will be added on for your total TIS upon retirement though.

You could also look at HPCP, it is a Navy program. Can't recall the details at the moment but I have them saved on a spreadsheet at home and in an email.

For clinical time, work with your MTF as the majority do have some sort of a shadowing availability that you might be able to work out.

Getting a release for HPSP or USUHS through your command is entirely dependent on your command/service. I worked in an Air Force heavy command and was able to get my service transfer request and service release letter signed by the AF 2 star with ease, then it sat at HQMC for about 3 months. An AF gal I work with was able to get hers through in about a month, same command but AFPC was a lot easier since she was staying AF. Recommendations were fairly simple as well, working with your MTF and establishing a shadowing routine and requesting a LOR from the PCM you worked with. Asking for one from leadership was dependent on who you requested it from; the 2-4 star wanted you to ghostwrite the letter and provide them with copies of your MCAT, transcript, and PS. From O-6 and lower it was typically just a conversation and tableside.

 

[deleted480308]

You will resign your commission and rank in order to attend USUHS if you are accepted. However, there was a bill passed that allowed you to retain your rank for pay purposes only. So you would go through wearing O1 but get paid as whatever you are now. You are not eligible for promotion during medical school and those 4 years do not add to your TIS/TIG. The four years of school will be added on for your total TIS upon retirement though.

You could also look at HPCP, it is a Navy program. Can't recall the details at the moment but I have them saved on a spreadsheet at home and in an email.

For clinical time, work with your MTF as the majority do have some sort of a shadowing availability that you might be able to work out.

Getting a release for HPSP or USUHS through your command is entirely dependent on your command/service. I worked in an Air Force heavy command and was able to get my service transfer request and service release letter signed by the AF 2 star with ease, then it sat at HQMC for about 3 months. An AF gal I work with was able to get hers through in about a month, same command but AFPC was a lot easier since she was staying AF. Recommendations were fairly simple as well, working with your MTF and establishing a shadowing routine and requesting a LOR from the PCM you worked with. Asking for one from leadership was dependent on who you requested it from; the 2-4 star wanted you to ghostwrite the letter and provide them with copies of your MCAT, transcript, and PS. From O-6 and lower it was typically just a conversation and tableside.

I think you meant hscp....... Navy pays you full time as an Nco (e5-e6?) during school and you make captain at graduation. I believe the payback is 4yrs after residency. Iirc, no tuition waiver but your retirement clock ticks the whole time so it's got an appeal to prior service people looking to get to 20 fast and get out

 

[Marine2MD]

I think you meant hscp....... Navy pays you full time as an Nco (e5-e6?) during school and you make captain at graduation. I believe the payback is 4yrs after residency. Iirc, no tuition waiver but your retirement clock ticks the whole time so it's got an appeal to prior service people looking to get to 20 fast and get out

Yes sorry. Though I thought if you made E7+ (Os included) you get full-time pay as E-7 otherwise it is E-6 pay. Now that you mention it, also not a great deal for the OP since he has no GI bill and would accumulate the debt.

 

[deleted480308]

Yes sorry. Though I thought if you made E7+ (Os included) you get full-time pay as E-7 otherwise it is E-6 pay. Now that you mention it, also not a great deal for the OP since he has no GI bill and would accumulate the debt.

https://www.navycs.com/officer/hscp.html you are right about e7 for prior service officers

It not being worth it really depends....a low price public med school? an e7 would bring in 60ish and that's plenty to live on and pay a chunk of tuition in cash. Couple that with the cash differential of getting to retirement faster and getting to make private money sooner and it becomes a much closer call

OP has a lot of thinking to do

 

[xffan624]

Thanks for the reply. I'll heed the advice in my planning. Failed to mention in the time between now and whenever a hopeful start date is, my goals are to live like a peasant and save as much money as possible, and to make attempts to get some clinical experience at either my base or local hospital. As of right now, I'm not eligible for any sort of GI Bill due to a college scholarship commitment, but the disability rec is common prior to getting out regardless of academic plans. If you don't mind me asking, what branch were you in/how did the process work for you?

I'd be surprised about the GI bill given DOD and VA programs are pretty separate. I knew someone who did ROTC and she thought that, but I don't think she was correct. If you're sure, you're sure. If not, then look into it. The Army repaid my college tuition while I was in via loan repayment and when I got out my GI Bill eligibility was still intact.

I was Army. I applied while I was stationed overseas, which was a challenge in itself, but I managed to make it back twice for a total of 4 interviews. I, too, took a while to study for my MCAT. I took about 6 months while I was working full time in a garrison assignment and I did ok. As my undergrad was a distant memory and I couldn't expect to get a letter from any of my professors during that time. I took a night gen chem CC class while I was working (after I had taken the MCAT, to limit the stress) to get a letter of recommendation from a science professor. The following year, with all those ducks in a row and being eligible to get of the Army at the end of the application cycle, I put my application in. The only snag being my assignment to another country. It all worked out in the end, but while you're in the thick of it, you definitely wonder whether it's worth it.

 

[trev5150]

I'm also just assuming I wouldn't be eligible for any promotions, the old butter bar pay ain't too bad though!

However, there was a bill passed that allowed you to retain your rank for pay purposes only.

So depending on your time in service/time in grade, this is a bit better than base, so there's that.

then it sat at HQMC for about 3 months.

8th & I, where paper goes to die.

 

[LTJC]

Thanks for all the useful information. When I approach my chain, I'm open to the possibility of exploring HPSP as a stance, in hopes they will be more likely to support me staying in the service on the back end. From my understanding, step one of HPSP is clearly to get accepted to a civilian school, so that's the first hurdle. Marine2MD, thanks for the awesome information on the USUHS route, I appreciate it.

Way down the line follow up question, in regards to your military background, are there any non-obvious things I should work to highlight? Every vet/AD applicant can say they operate under stress, are squared away, reliable, etc etc, but after you've been through it all--was there anything on the back end you wish you could have emphasized more in your application(s)?

 

[68PGunner]

Try to get Voc Rehab. It's a full ride through medical school with E-5 BAH and other goodies.

 

[LTJC]

Try to get Voc Rehab. It's a full ride through medical school with E-5 BAH and other goodies.

I'm not eligible for any sort of GI bill due to a college scholarship, is Voc Rehab different? It requires min. 10% disability rating, correct?

 

[68PGunner]

I'm not eligible for any sort of GI bill due to a college scholarship, is Voc Rehab different? It requires min. 10% disability rating, correct?

Voc Rehab requires a honorable discharge along with a minimal 10% disability rating. Have you suffered any injuries while you're in the service? If so, it shouldn't be hard to meet the 10% cutoff line.

 

[LTJC]

Voc Rehab requires a honorable discharge along with a minimal 10% disability rating. Have you suffered any injuries while you're in the service? If so, it shouldn't be hard to meet the 10% cutoff line.

Thanks for the information, might be a program I can look into.

 

[abn632]

If you're currently deployed, I would wander over to the local med station and talk to a few docs there. They can give you some advice face to face and you can probably get some shadowing time in. Since it's been awhile for you since undergrad, I would not rush the MCAT study process, nor would I attempt to rush an application to med schools. The safest course of action is to wait until your service obligation is up, get out, then do the MCAT and med school application as a civilian. In my experience, the military has a way of screwing up your future plans, so wait until they no longer have their hooks in you before you do anything significant.

 

[LTJC]

If you're currently deployed, I would wander over to the local med station and talk to a few docs there. They can give you some advice face to face and you can probably get some shadowing time in. Since it's been awhile for you since undergrad, I would not rush the MCAT study process, nor would I attempt to rush an application to med schools. The safest course of action is to wait until your service obligation is up, get out, then do the MCAT and med school application as a civilian. In my experience, the military has a way of screwing up your future plans, so wait until they no longer have their hooks in you before you do anything significant.

Thank you for the advice, I was planning on looking into that on my days off. As far as waiting as until I'm on civilian status--do you have any insight how that would affect my possible acceptance to military medicine programs, such as HPSP, no longer being on active duty? Do you have any insight as to being more likely to get accepted, as it would be much lower of an investment into a person (assuming accepted to a medical school) if they were already through the training pipeline, and fully vetted in service areas as active duty vs. civilian recruit?

 

[Marine2MD]

Not being on active duty makes it easier with the entire HPSP and USU programs since you do not have to worry about getting a waiver or release from your service in order to pursue medicine. As far as vetting I do not think it matters since you still have to get all of the same requirements done whether you are active, prior, or a straight civilian (at least this is the word given to me from USU, not 100% on HPSP side).

The one thing I would caution is the disability percentage rating if you are looking to stay in the service. It may not be the case for everyone and every service but I have known individuals outside of health programs that have attempted to re-enter the service or switch services and were denied or limited due to a disability rating (10%+). By limited I mean that only their original service would allow them to return (Army) where the other services rejected them all together. Perhaps a recruiter not willing to do the work or something else in the background, would recommend talking to recruiters and finding out some info on your own. Personally, I just had all of my injuries and issues documented and when I spoke to the VA I just got everything on record and refused a disability rating so I could switch services - my VA rep said to come back in a year and I could rework my rating if need be. Maybe someone who has done it and successfully switched over services from a medical standpoint can provide better insight since it appears that medical/dental officers tend to get more leeway with some things.

 

[abn632]

Thank you for the advice, I was planning on looking into that on my days off. As far as waiting as until I'm on civilian status--do you have any insight how that would affect my possible acceptance to military medicine programs, such as HPSP, no longer being on active duty? Do you have any insight as to being more likely to get accepted, as it would be much lower of an investment into a person (assuming accepted to a medical school) if they were already through the training pipeline, and fully vetted in service areas as active duty vs. civilian recruit?

I can't speak about the HPSP since I haven't been through the process, but my hunch is to agree with @Marine2MD (even though he's a Marine) that not being on active duty eliminates a lot of the red tape and bureaucratic nonsense that you would likely face. If you are wondering whether being active duty (or being a veteran) would improve your chances of securing the HPSP vs. being a civilian, I highly doubt it simply because the HPSP was created to lure unsuspecting civilians into the service.

As a former SFC/E7 with 13 years in the Army, I'm seriously tempted to go back in as a physician and hit 20+ years. But I'm older now, have a family, and am more acclimated to the sweet, lazy, civilian life. If I do go back in, it'll be in the Reserves or Guard. If finances are an issue, I'd check out this page about how to maximize the financial benefit you can receive by signing your life away (again) to the military. It really helped me in deciding to not go back in to the military until sometime in residency. It might make you feel more comfortable about taking on student loans now in exchange for greater flexibility in life later. I also highly encourage you to check out the Military Medicine forum here on SDN. There are some very...insightful...analyses about the state of military medicine today and some caveats that you should be aware of. Best of luck to you, Sir!

 

[Tabiyou]

Hey brother,

I hope this helps. I was an Marine Corps Infantry Officer (09-14) and served in Afghanistan (11). I did not qualify for GI Bill since I went to a service academy and 5 years was good enough for me.

1. I would look into Vocational Rehabilitation and the VA disability rating. What I did was before I got out, I had all my claims listed. I did not, however, go to a military doctor once I got out of the military. I assumed that if I had a disability rating, it would be harder to get back into the military and emotionally I could not justify getting a disability rating. Keep in mind, the longer you wait, the harder it is to prove that it is service-connected. Also, apparently you can get back pay on this. In looking at some of the past threats, vocational rehabilitation and GI Bill can help pay a lot for medical school.

2. HPSP and HSCP. I would look into both of these programs. There are a lot of hiccups you might encounter for the HPSP. Something we had to overcome was obtaining an interservice request. When I left the Marine Corps on Valentine's Day, I didn't know I would be placed on Individual Ready Reserve. Thus, something that my recruiter and I didn't know until the last minute is you (may) have to complete an interservice request to transfer (if for whatever reason you want to get out of Air Force into another service). I don't know much about the HSCP.

3. Keep all copies of your medical records before you get out. I don't know how this is possible, but the Navy paid for my PRK. They lost the paperwork. MEPS refused to sign off on my medical paperwork and I had to get a waiver.

4. I just got accepted into the Navy HPSP. I got accepted into school on 1/27/16. Contacted recruiter in February. Package was complete with all my waivers and submitted in early May. I can answer your questions about this program if you want.

Goodbye grunt life, looking forward to the perks of being a POG.