ADHD and Medical Student Syndrome

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Docgeorge

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So we had a lecture on ADHD the other day in lecture and I realized that I had 5 of the items from the DSM for Attention Deficit and 7 from the Hyperactivity side. This in it self would not really have bothered me but my s/o of almost 4 years (also a medstudent at another school) told me after her school had lectures on ADHD that I might have it. This got me thinking a little bit and I hoped online and took one of the online tests (from some psyc group in Ca) and it said that I was probable for ADD. My question is that should I go to a psyciatrist and get evaluated for this?

PS

I'm not very succeptable to Medical Student Syndrome.

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So, by your description, you feel you meet criterion A. What about criteria B-E (especially D)?

B. Some hyperactive, impulsive, or inattentive symptoms that
caused impairment were present before age 7 years
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more
settings (such as in school or work and at home)
D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant
impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning
E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course
of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, or another
psychotic disorder and are not better accounted for by another
mental disorder (such as a mood, anxiety, dissociative, or
personality disorder)
 
Docgeorge said:
My question is that should I go to a psychiatrist and get evaluated for this?

Absolutely. Very common for ADHD diagnosis to be made in medical school, when you are expected to sit and memorize boring material for hours at a time. Before then, ADDers often get by on brains and don't suffer too much from the symptoms. It's also a good idea to get evaluated to rule out common conditions with similar symtoms, such as anxiety. Of course, you also need a doctor to prescribe medications to treat it.

Some recommendations:
1. Don't use insurance, if you can afford not to. The question of psychiatric disorders will come up in applications for life insurance, disability insurance, etc. ADD is considered a "high risk" disorder for morbidity and mortality because of associated features including high impulsivity and love of risky activities such as sky-diving. Even if you're the biggest coward in the world, they go by statistical tables, and you may be shut out for up to 3 years. Better safe than sorry.
2. Watch your blood sugar. ADD frequently travels with hypoglycemia or reactive hypoglycemia. Eat a relatively low-carbohydrate diet, and choose snacks such as cheese sticks or nuts instead of fruit, bagels, or sugar. Make sure to eat something close to 3-4 pm to avoid the midafternoon slump. It sounds ridiculously simple, but you *will* notice a difference in your concentration.

Good luck!
 
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PsychMD said:
So, by your description, you feel you meet criterion A. What about criteria B-E (especially D)?

B. Some hyperactive, impulsive, or inattentive symptoms that
caused impairment were present before age 7 years
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more
settings (such as in school or work and at home)
D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant
impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning
E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course
of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, or another
psychotic disorder and are not better accounted for by another
mental disorder (such as a mood, anxiety, dissociative, or
personality disorder)

Actually, B, C, and D are basically not important with regard to treatment. DSM is designed for research purposes, and does not necessarily reflect real life. A person may not meet full criteria for ADD in the DSM and yet still have impairment and still benefit from treatment. This is especially true of intelligent people with mostly inattentiveness symptoms, who may skate by for a long time before coming in to treatment.

In any case, it's best for people not to diagnose themselves with the DSM or rely on others in this forum to diagnose them. Get a professional opinion.
 
Dont know about E, but I've been bouncing off walls as long as I can rember. I dont rember inattentavieness as a child, but i would get intruouble for talking too much, moving around too much. But I'll have to ask my parents about anything else.

Definately starting to affect me in school...espicially in classes that realy more on memorization then on concepts and MOA. Socially, my s/o says that she's sacred that if we ever had a kid, I'd leave it on the roof of the car cuz i'm thinking about something. She gets frustrated because if I get into something thats interesting I completely tune everything else out and focus in on it so much that she litterally has to hit me to get my attention. On the flip side if I'm not actively engaged insomething that I find facinating my mind is off in a 100 different places that I forget about my surroundings. Sometimes I'll start saying something and 1/2 way through the sentance I'll swith to a differnt thought. (did'nt realize this till I did it to a friend of mine a couple of times and he poited it out)

Crazy huh!

Oh yeah, I got an appointment with a Psyciatrist. Thanks for your help.


Anyway on a different.
 
purpledoc said:
Actually, B, C, and D are basically not important with regard to treatment. DSM is designed for research purposes, and does not necessarily reflect real life. A person may not meet full criteria for ADD in the DSM and yet still have impairment and still benefit from treatment. This is especially true of intelligent people with mostly inattentiveness symptoms, who may skate by for a long time before coming in to treatment.

In any case, it's best for people not to diagnose themselves with the DSM or rely on others in this forum to diagnose them. Get a professional opinion.

Actually, the DSM was developed with a priority on its usefulness in guiding clinical practice. But, as you stated, it's limitations are in the fact that it is not designed to individualize patients who very often don't "fit" into the diagnostic criteria. The DSMs usefulness for research purposes was a secondary goal in its development.

Criterions B, C, and D may be important depending upon what form of treatment is recommended and/or selected; and how these criteria impact the individual person.

The DSM, diagnostically, accounts for people who don't meet full criteria for disorders... such as ADHD NOS.

Not disagreeing with you, just trying to be technically accurate.

JRB
 
JRB said:
Actually, the DSM was developed with a priority on its usefulness in guiding clinical practice. But, as you stated, it's limitations are in the fact that it is not designed to individualize patients who very often don't "fit" into the diagnostic criteria. The DSMs usefulness for research purposes was a secondary goal in its development.

Criterions B, C, and D may be important depending upon what form of treatment is recommended and/or selected; and how these criteria impact the individual person.

The DSM, diagnostically, accounts for people who don't meet full criteria for disorders... such as ADHD NOS.

Not disagreeing with you, just trying to be technically accurate.

JRB

Ok, so, regarding technical accuracy...

I should point out that the original (pre-DSM) standardized psych nosology -- containing 22 disorders -- was in fact written by the American Medico-Psychological Association in 1918 with the express purpose of collecting uniform statistics on patients in institutions. While DSM-I and II might have focused a bit more on clinical utility, DSM-III and subsequent editions were designed simply to give explicit, descriptive diagnostic criteria for mental disorders. Per Kaplan & Sadock's "bible," The Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry, 7th ed., p. 824: "Extensive efforts to correct this perception [of psychiatric classifications seeming "less scientific"] resulted in a paradigmatic shift from hermeneutic to empirically based approaches, and the development of a nosology intended to increase diagnostic reliability and facilitate research efforts."

Basically, the DSM was never designed with a priority on its usefulness in guiding clinical practice, any more than the ICD manuals were designed to be useful in guiding medical practice. It was designed to make sure that everyone used the same name (diagnosis) when they looked at a person with a specific set of symptoms. As a secondary benefit, the research that has been done using these specific criteria has had clinical utility. Nonetheless, the DSM was never designed to aid clinical practice, except for ensuring consistent diagnoses.

As for ADHD NOS, yes, it does exist in the DSM. Unfortunately, just about any person, mentally ill or not, can be put into an "NOS" category in the DSM -- just look at Mood disorder NOS, or Personality disorder NOS. My point was simply that no one should diagnose themselves or rule out diagnoses based on the DSM criteria for anything. In real life, NOS diagnoses are rarely used. Diagnosing someone as ADHD NOS instead of ADHD (inattentive, hyperactive, or combined) may mean that the patient does not get mental health coverage, because it's not an official parity diagnosis in that state; or that ADHD medications are not covered, because they're not approved for that diagnosis. Guess how most psychiatrists diagnose their technically-NOS patients?

Finally, regarding B, C, and D, well, I stand by my statement that they are "basically not important." Treatment is pretty much directed by symptoms, not by age of onset or which spheres of life it effects. So, if someone meets criteria A and E, I will treat them the same regardless of B, C, and D. Once they've met A and E, the only other thing I need to know clinically is, "Is the patient bothered by it?" If they are, I treat it. If they're not, I don't treat it. Mind you, if I do ever come across literature that suggests that different medications work better for childhood-onset vs. late-onset, I might change my mind. But as far as I know, while that's always interesting to learn, it doesn't change treatment.

OK, off my soapbox. Sorry. I should have warned you not to get me started on the DSM......... :D
 
The DSM is a perfect example of the problem with diagnostic symptom reliabilty not necessarily being related to diagnostic validity.

Svas
 
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