Admission Doubts

[MixedOriginal]

I am a senior undergrad. student with aspirations of being a physician. Sparing all of the nitty gritty details, I have explored many different career options but feel that being a physician is where I will feel that I can contribute most. I have a sub-3.0 uGPA that I am, obviously, not proud of. However, due to financial constraints, I have worked nearly full-time (30 hours/week) in a hospital throughout the entirety of my time in undergrad.. Assuming I did well (27-30) on the MCAT, what do you all think would be a way to get an interview to medical school?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this, with a <3.0 cGPA, the only way you're getting an interview is with a six figure donation check in hand.

You have some serious grade repair to do.

A 27-30 isn't well on the MCAT for MD schools as well. Fine for DO, but the GPA is pretty much auto-reject.

I am a senior undergrad. student with aspirations of being a physician. Sparing all of the nitty gritty details, I have explored many different career options but feel that being a physician is where I will feel that I can contribute most. I have a sub-3.0 uGPA that I am, obviously, not proud of. However, due to financial constraints, I have worked nearly full-time (30 hours/week) in a hospital throughout the entirety of my time in undergrad.. Assuming I did well (27-30) on the MCAT, what do you all think would be a way to get an interview to medical school?

 

[Entadus]

I am a senior undergrad. student with aspirations of being a physician. Sparing all of the nitty gritty details, I have explored many different career options but feel that being a physician is where I will feel that I can contribute most. I have a sub-3.0 uGPA that I am, obviously, not proud of. However, due to financial constraints, I have worked nearly full-time (30 hours/week) in a hospital throughout the entirety of my time in undergrad.. Assuming I did well (27-30) on the MCAT, what do you all think would be a way to get an interview to medical school?

Considering the average mcat of matriculants to MD programs is at least 31, a 27-30 really isn't all that good. Combine that with a sub-3 GPA and you are dead in the water. If you want medical school, you're going to need to start earning A's, and lots of them.

 

[MixedOriginal]

I can't sugar coat this, with a <3.0 cGPA, the only way you're getting an interview is with a six figure donation check in hand.

You have some serious grade repair to do.

A 27-30 isn't well on the MCAT for MD schools as well. Fine for DO, but the GPA is pretty much auto-reject.

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

 

[MixedOriginal]

I can't sugar coat this, with a <3.0 cGPA, the only way you're getting an interview is with a six figure donation check in hand.

You have some serious grade repair to do.

A 27-30 isn't well on the MCAT for MD schools as well. Fine for DO, but the GPA is pretty much auto-reject.

Don't take that personally. I understand that money talks and outstanding admissions statistics earn schools more money. However, I didn't post this to be batted down with stuff like this. Something constructive would have been a bit more helpful.

 

[Jbirdski]

Its not that med schools are shallow, its the fact that they have thousands of applicants to sift through. If you are below certain stats, your chances are much lower that they will pick up your folder and see the work you do in the hospital.

As far as constructive advice, its really hard to find here on SDN so good luck with that. Best to probably sift through the threads and use google, all the info is there to give you an idea of what you need to do to get on track to med school.

 

[Quik]

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

You speak like being academically capable and having social skills are mutually exclusive. It's not one or the other. The applicant pool is stacked with absolute top notch individuals who also happen to have the academic horsepower necessary to make it through the med school curriculum. Medicine requires both traits, and if anyone is the best at evaluating those necessary for success in medicine it's an admissions committee.

What Goro pointed out is an otherwise obvious fact; your chances of acceptance are extremely thin with a sub 3.0 GPA, until you prove you have the capacity to handle the rigor of med school. Among many factors evaluated on one's application, only two are numbers: GPA and MCAT score. Everything else put into a competitive application speaks to disproving the former point you made, that there's a person, a human behind those scores.

 

[Quik]

As far as constructive advice, its really hard to find here on SDN so good luck with that. Best to probably sift through the threads and use google, all the info is there to give you an idea of what you need to do to get on track to med school.

Constructive advice floods SDN, especially this non-trad forum, however it's often honest and pours a bit of reality into one's perspective. It's not just a cheerleading squad. I have heard more spot on advice through this forum than any other resource out there.

Taking Goro's advice from the previous post, it heavily implies the OP needs to begin a serious academic re-hab program and not bother applying (wasting thousands of $ per app cycle) until that GPA is over 3.0. Even that isn't competitive, but if he/she strings together enough wins (A's) then an adcom might see some light in this one, and invite them for an interview. That's reality. Goro does this for a living. It might be best we read between the lines here.

 

[wholeheartedly]

The thing about getting useful advice on SDN, especially the Nontrad forum, is that you need to be able to make the distinction between what you want to hear and what you need to hear.

i.e.

You have some serious grade repair to do.

 

[Goro]

Please restrain your ignorance of the medical school admissions process. We want people who will survive the rigors of medical school. So far you have yet to demonstrate that.

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

Most medical schools don't rely on tuition. Any decent school with a halfway productive research program canmake more money in indirects from grants than they can in tuition from a body of 150-200 students. heck, I know of individual departments that earn more money this way than the entire tuition income!

And tuition from someone with a 3.0 will be the same as for someone as a 3.9. Well, sort of. The person with the former is more at risk of flunking out of medical school.

Don't take that personally. I understand that money talks and outstanding admissions statistics earn schools more money. However, I didn't post this to be batted down with stuff like this. Something constructive would have been a bit more helpful.

OP has two options. Retake every F/D/C science grade and let AACOMAS' grade replacement policy work its magic, and then apply to DO schools.

OR do well (like > 3.5) in a post-bac or SMP and then ace MCAT. There are MD schools that reward reinvention. They do not reward risk.

 

[Aloft085]

I am a senior undergrad. student with aspirations of being a physician. Sparing all of the nitty gritty details, I have explored many different career options but feel that being a physician is where I will feel that I can contribute most. I have a sub-3.0 uGPA that I am, obviously, not proud of. However, due to financial constraints, I have worked nearly full-time (30 hours/week) in a hospital throughout the entirety of my time in undergrad.. Assuming I did well (27-30) on the MCAT, what do you all think would be a way to get an interview to medical school?

Apply to DO schools. Retake your D's and F's first.

 

[DrMidlife]

OR do well (like > 3.5) in a post-bac or SMP and then ace MCAT. There are MD schools that reward reinvention. They do not reward risk.

One year of goodness in an SMP doesn't fix a sub-3.0. The OP needs to be looking at 3+ years of solid academic work to get into an MD school, and hopefully that includes some serious growing up.

Here's a playbook: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-low-gpa-what-do-i-do-thread.827879/

 

[cabinbuilder]

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

It may seem that way but everything with medicine has to do with standardized tests that you HAVE TO PASS preferably the first time within a specific time frame and there are 4 sections of the board exams AND the board certification exam. If you can't pass the exams you don't get to be licensed to practice. You can have all the experience in the world and be the best person ever on the planet but if you can't pass the exams then medical schools aren't going to waste their time on you.

 

[Goro]

And in order to do well on Boards, you need to do well in med school.

It may seem that way but everything with medicine has to do with standardized tests that you HAVE TO PASS preferably the first time within a specific time frame and there are 4 sections of the board exams AND the board certification exam. If you can't pass the exams you don't get to be licensed to practice. You can have all the experience in the world and be the best person ever on the planet but if you can't pass the exams then medical schools aren't going to waste their time on you.

 

[DocWinter]

OP, as someone who had an application that relied more on character, desire and practical experience than gpa and numbers (3.4, 25), I still find myself lucky to have gotten the little interest I did and acceptance to med school. Schools can and will take your other work into account, but it is not a blind forgiveness for failing to produce at an even mediocre level of B's. You are not the only one to have a part time job while in school and volunteering on the side. Many, many applicants, including myself, worked full time or even 50+ hours a week during undergrad/PB. My point- nothing can truly compensate for decent numbers. Your best chance to practice medicine is to consider PA school, or look at a 2-3 year comeback of great grades

 

[ridethecliche]

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

That's kind of hilarious given plenty of applicants have a high gpa, good mcat, experience, and social skills. This is not an either/or thing, MD schools can afford to look for applicants that have them all.

 

[crazy87]

You should get your gpa above 3.0. (Speaking as someone who started below). Do what it takes if you want to make med school a reality.

 

[MixedOriginal]

I'll admit that I got salty with that one person, so I'll take my medicine on that. However, who is to say that just because someone doesn't have the GPA that they won't survive the rigors of medical school? I understand that it is challenging - way more than undergrad. - but what happened to the holistic application review? Wouldn't it raise questions on WHY the GPA is so low? For example, me working 30 hours per week kind of puts a damper on studying time, especially when I would go straight from class to work and not leave until midnight in the worst cases. I can't help the fact that I had financial constraints, but that doesn't mean I am an idiot or a lazy student who isn't willing or even capable of succeeding in medical school. I also understand that there are literally thousands of applications that admissions has to sift through. But, if it is that time consuming, why do they even bother not having a definitive minimum GPA requirement instead of making it seem like someone can actually compensate in other areas of their application when they put, "no minimum GPA or MCAT score required... We take a holistic approach to application review."?

 

[EsotericAlchemy]

You came for the answer you wanted to hear, so here it is: You're a special snowflake.

 

[ghostman]

It IS a holistic approach; grades are part of the whole. With the large applicant pool, they can afford to start at the top and work their way down until the class if filled. So the well-rounded person with good grades will get the interview first. Some applicants with good grades, but deemed to be a bad fit will not get interviews. Then they look for well-rounded folks with slightly lower grades. And so on. They usually don't have to go down too far to fill the class.

Med schools want applicants to have a good idea of what they are getting into, which is why they want their applicants to have some experience in the health care field. They don't necessarily care that you are intimately familiar with hospital work. That's what med school and residence is for.

If you're truly interested in getting into med school, you'll need to show that you can handle the academic load. This means you'll need a pattern of good grades in science classes. An MCAT grade alone won't cut it.

 

[QofQuimica]

Quite frankly, you're not demonstrating either strong academic skills *or* strong social skills here. One of the most important skills you need to succeed in medicine (or in any other social endeavor in life) is the ability to play the game. And when you have a game like med school admissions where there are way more people wanting to play than there are accommodations for them all, there's no need for the rule makers to take a chance on an unproven player like you.

So, you have three choices. One, you can change your attitude, make up your mind to prove that you have the qualities to succeed in med school, and probably become a doc some day, albeit having to do a few years of extra work to get your academic record rehabilitated to a reasonable level. Two, you can decide that getting into med school is too much hassle and you'd rather do something else (not an unreasonable decision for some people who aren't as committed to medicine as they need to be). Three, you can come on SDN and complain about how the system sucks and life is so unfair.

So, how much good has taking option #3 done you so far?

 

[jl lin]

I'll admit that I got salty with that one person, so I'll take my medicine on that. However, who is to say that just because someone doesn't have the GPA that they won't survive the rigors of medical school? I understand that it is challenging - way more than undergrad. - but what happened to the holistic application review? Wouldn't it raise questions on WHY the GPA is so low? For example, me working 30 hours per week kind of puts a damper on studying time, especially when I would go straight from class to work and not leave until midnight in the worst cases. I can't help the fact that I had financial constraints, but that doesn't mean I am an idiot or a lazy student who isn't willing or even capable of succeeding in medical school. I also understand that there are literally thousands of applications that admissions has to sift through. But, if it is that time consuming, why do they even bother not having a definitive minimum GPA requirement instead of making it seem like someone can actually compensate in other areas of their application when they put, "no minimum GPA or MCAT score required... We take a holistic approach to application review."?

Here's my understanding of the "game," if you will. The holistic part comes into play, after the preview of the academic numbers--MCAT is another reflection of academic numbers. It's like how applications for jobs are generated and completed on line. Cover letters and resumes may be uploaded as well. But a program or some person is going to do a quick once over--in fact, some applications on line have actual early weed out questions, for which you must answer "Yes" or "No." There's no getting around it. You will not move a head in the application process until you have answered. If the desired weed-out question is "Yes," and You put "No," the application process stops. If you put "Yes," but can't back it up, you are screwed anyway. So, the numbers get you in the door for an interview--just like certain questions on online applications allow you to be weeded rather than extending an interview that doesn't meet the particular criteria.

Dude it is what it is. Their game. Their rules. So a 3.0 or < with a subpar MCAT may probably not get you into most med. schools for an interview. It's like the numbers are shown, and boom, it's tossed. Now, that may be an oversimplification; but at least that is how I have come to understand it. If there is nothing to support the necessary academic acumen required for the MS program and for success on the plethora of examinations required--that go well past residency--they figure a seat would be wasted.

The other side of the coin is the person that has all the glowing numbers, get an interview, and comes off like a major egotistical jacko that can't take direction. Yea. They won't make it through the interview; but it's not like they can give their great numbers to a more caring, decent soul. Way it goes.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

No, med school would rather have a bookworm with social skills, real world experience and has worked in a hospital, which is what it usually gets. Sorry, but just because you couldn't achieve all those things at once doesn't mean the rest of us couldn't. Start by growing up and taking responsibility for your actions.

 

[deejaymd]

So, basically, medical schools are so shallow that they would rather have the bookworm who has no social skills or real world experiences than someone who has actually worked in a hospital and gained invaluable experience but did not meet the GPA "requirement?" That makes sense.

Medical schools would rather you be well-rounded and have ALL of those things, like most of us have and have worked hard for. It's a harsh reality, but it's true.