Admission to medical school questions

[Tgn2014]

Hi there. New guy to the forum.

It's been asked by many members for a while I have read.

Juvenile Record.

It consisted of things like drug charges and under age driving. Not many though, I believe. It was 10 years ago, 13 years old. Now I'm 23 and about to apply to the University of Utah.

I was talking to my mom on the phone and she said it wouldn't / shouldn't matter because it was juvenile. I however, do not think the same. I am really stressed about this. Because once you apply and get turned down for a criminal record (even juvenile), I think it's over for that school, and the next school is in the next state. I would like to stay in Utah, and do private practice here too.

The charges currently have not been taken to court to "seal". I don't know if this would be helpful or not.

I'm just a dorky guy who wants to pursue his dream, to become a Psychiatrist. I'm super worried, very nauseated because of this. I am really disappointed in myself, I'm also really hard on myself, how I was so stupid is beyond me.

I hope I provided as much information as I could, and any helpful tips, advice would be great. I would really appreciate it.

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[Entadus]

Tip #1 is be forthcoming in your applications so you don't find yourself in this situation: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...o-respond-within-2-days-what-do-i-do.1088937/

 

[Tgn2014]

Tip #1 is be forthcoming in your applications so you don't find yourself in this situation: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...o-respond-within-2-days-what-do-i-do.1088937/

Thanks a lot. I have heard some schools would be forgiving. So I'll try to not keep stressing. Some schools are very competitive, and I am sure they would choose a person that has a GPA of 3.2 with no juvenile history over a person with a GPA of 3.9 with a juvenile history. (I'm using GPA as an example) Then again, I do not know.
I appreciate your reply.

 

[Aerus]

Thanks a lot. I have heard some schools would be forgiving. So I'll try to not keep stressing. Schools are very competitive, and I am sure they would choose a person that has a GPA of 3.2 with no juvenile history over a person with a GPA of 3.9 with a juvenile history. Then again, I do not know.
I appreciate your reply.

No, they would choose the 3.9 with no juvenile history.

 

[ciestar]

I think the fact that you were 13 and it was 10 years ago and it was a nonviolent crime should put your mind at ease a bit.

 

[Tgn2014]

No, they would choose the 3.9 with no juvenile history.

Well as I said, I'm very hard on myself. I was just being negative. The 3.9 GPA with juvenile history was me, then compared it with an example.

 

[Runican]

Hi there. New guy to the forum.

It's been asked by many members for a while I have read.

Juvenile Record.

It consisted of things like drug charges and under age driving. Not many though, I believe. It was 10 years ago, 13 years old. Now I'm 23 and about to apply to the University of Utah.

I was talking to my mom on the phone and she said it wouldn't / shouldn't matter because it was juvenile. I however, do not think the same. I am really stressed about this. Because once you apply and get turned down for a criminal record (even juvenile), I think it's over for that school, and the next school is in the next state. I would like to stay in Utah, and do private practice here too.

The charges currently have not been taken to court to "seal". I don't know if this would be helpful or not.

I'm just a dorky guy who wants to pursue his dream, to become a Psychiatrist. I'm super worried, very nauseated because of this. I am really disappointed in myself, I'm also really hard on myself, how I was so stupid is beyond me.

I hope I provided as much information as I could, and any helpful tips, advice would be great. I would really appreciate it.

Be forthcoming about your record, but also realize that each school will perceive it however they want. Some might see it as a huge red flag, while others may see it as simply a minor issue.

Also, try not to only set your sights on one medical school. Especially with a criminal record, you will likely need to apply to 20+ school to have a decent chance at an acceptance. This will likely mean that you'll have to leave Utah for 4 years, but you shouldn't have too much trouble coming back to Utah for residency if you do well in medical school.

 

[Aerus]

Well as I said, I'm very hard on myself. I was just being negative. The 3.9 GPA with juvenile history was me, then compared it with an example.

If you are strategic in how you apply, I think you'll be just fine.

 

[Tgn2014]

Be forthcoming about your record, but also realize that each school will perceive it however they want. Some might see it as a huge red flag, while others may see it as simply a minor issue.

Also, try not to only set your sights on one medical school. Especially with a criminal record, you will likely need to apply to 20+ school to have a decent chance at an acceptance. This will likely mean that you'll have to leave Utah for 4 years, but you shouldn't have too much trouble coming back to Utah for residency if you do well in medical school.

Thank you, I appreciate it. I'll apply to many universities then.
If and when I get in, I'll do my best. I'm not too worried about finding residency, except for this same issue causing me problems licensing.

 

[CitrusJ]

Shouldnt the charges have been sealed anyways since you were under 18?

 

[lmn]

Check to see the status of your conviction and then decide how to deal with it.

 

[gyngyn]

Shouldnt the charges have been sealed anyways since you were under 18?

Contrary to popular belief, juvenile records (and "expunged" records) never go away completely and are available to government affiliated hospitals (county, state and federal). When medical schools use these hospitals as their primary training facilities, the background check may reveal crimes of moral turpitude that prohibit the issuance of a hospital ID. If the terms of matriculation require the student to be eligible to train in these facilities their acceptance may be rescinded.

Edit: I am not implying that OP committed crimes of moral turpitude, just correcting the false belief that juvenile records do not become available in background checks done by government facilities.

 

[CitrusJ]

Contrary to popular belief, juvenile records (and "expunged" records) never go away completely and are available to government affiliated hospitals (county, state and federal). When medical schools use these hospitals as their primary training facilities, the background check may reveal crimes of moral turpitude that prohibit the issuance of a hospital ID. If the terms of matriculation require the student to be eligible to train in these facilities their acceptance may be rescinded.

Edit: I am not implying that OP committed crimes of moral turpitude, just correcting the false belief that juvenile records do not become available in background checks done by government facilities.

Wow, I never knew that! Definitely makes sense, but also definitely not how most people think it works then!

 

[gyngyn]

Wow, I never knew that! Definitely makes sense, but also definitely not how most people think it works then!

Yes. It's not intuitive.

 

[Tgn2014]

Thanks for all your replies. I really appreciate it.
I have heard about people who didn't disclose their juvenile records, and it came back to them when applying for a license. I've worked too hard to get this far, to submit a "deceptive" application, just to become worried, and wonder "Am I going to be booted out tomorrow?"
I believe being completely honest is the best way, actually if you think about it, the only option.

 

[the13fools]

Contrary to popular belief, juvenile records (and "expunged" records) never go away completely and are available to government affiliated hospitals (county, state and federal). When medical schools use these hospitals as their primary training facilities, the background check may reveal crimes of moral turpitude that prohibit the issuance of a hospital ID. If the terms of matriculation require the student to be eligible to train in these facilities their acceptance may be rescinded.

Edit: I am not implying that OP committed crimes of moral turpitude, just correcting the false belief that juvenile records do not become available in background checks done by government facilities.

What's the point of them sealing your record if it's still possible to access it?

Is it just that it's harder to get at?

 

[gyngyn]

What's the point of them sealing your record if it's still possible to access it?

Is it just that it's harder to get at?

Perhaps non-government organizations cannot access records for employment?

 

[F.Underwood]

If you seal your juvenile record, you can legally answer "no" to ANY of those questions.

 

[gyngyn]

If you seal your juvenile record, you can legally answer "no" to ANY of those questions.

If the secondary asks explicitly for any convictions, one would still be required to respond in the affirmative for the reasons indicated above. From the school's POV, it is a lot easier to prepare for a challenge from the revelations in a background check, than it is to be caught unawares.

 

[smpbound]

If a juvenile conviction is sealed, it's sealed. Answer what you think is best.

If a medical school wants to go to court and unseal it, then they should go right ahead. But don't be bullied into answering a question a certain way. There are juvenile privacy issues here.

 

[gyngyn]

If a juvenile conviction is sealed, it's sealed. Answer what you think is best.

If a medical school wants to go to court and unseal it, then they should go right ahead. But don't be bullied into answering a question a certain way. There are juvenile privacy issues here.

This is an open exchange of information. Some of us (i.e. me) have had to deal with the unintended consequences of non-disclosure. Ultimately, you are correct. Each candidate has to decide how much they are willing to risk. To deny this risk is disingenuous, though.

As I previously indicated, the school does not "unseal records." Government facilities have automatic access to them. If the school has an affiliation agreement with the hospital and clearly indicates that the ability to train at this hospital is one of the terms of acceptance, the applicant has little recourse. His better option is to have disclosed so that he has the school's support.

 

[Tgn2014]

This is an open exchange of information. Some of us (i.e. me) have had to deal with the unintended consequences of non-disclosure. Ultimately, you are correct. Each candidate has to decide how much they are willing to risk. To deny this risk is disingenuous, though.

As I previously indicated, the school does not "unseal records." Government facilities have automatic access to them. If the school has an affiliation agreement with the hospital and clearly indicates that the ability to train at this hospital is one of the terms of acceptance, the applicant has little recourse. His better option is to have disclosed so that he has the school's support.

I'm assuming chances are slim?

 

[Lakedays]

Unless any of the above respondents are admission folk, none of them can know how schools will view it. But what I do know is that if you just bury it, it will likely unearth at some point to bite you. I think the biggest issue at hand is the "drug charges" as that's a pretty broad brush left for interpretation, which could range from a joint to juvenile rehab. Then again, it could be that it was this experience of dealing with psychiatrists yourself, you feel you could be excellent in working with adolescents. OR ... you could be just a really smart guy that hopes to write himself prescriptions one day. You know? So while I have about as much credibility as the next non-credible poster, I might suggest that if you do decide to disclose you try to be as honest in doing so as possible. Clearly being 13 at the time does work to your advantage since you've obviously done a few things right since then, especially if you were essentially scared straight so to speak and it was catalyst for change/maturity or similar. A decade is a long time if you've not seen any thing even remotely similar since then. But you can't just disclose it without some deeper explanation and expect them to just ignore it. For me that would only make for more questions.

I would also perhaps inquire with a lawyer about how easy (or not) it is to discover juvenile records; I don't think it's as easy necessarily as it's being described here, sealed or not.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm assuming chances are slim?

Chances for what?

 

[Tgn2014]

Chances for what?

To get in to school anywhere?
I currently believe no matter what skills I possess, motivation and dedication I have, grades I get, this issue will hinder me getting in anywhere.
Maybe I'm just being negative.

 

[LizzyM]

The AMCAS specifically states that you should omit juvenile records. If they ask about it later, it will be taken into consideration. I like to say that the measure most schools will take is this, "Would we want a person who did this in our community?" Underage driving? Well, you aren't capable of doing that again, eh? Drugs -- that may depend on what the drug was, the quantity, the intent. If a car you were driving at age 13 had a joint in the ashtray, you are likely in the clear. If you were an underage drug mule moving product north from Arizona being used because authorities "go easy" on juveniles, then it is a different kettle of fish. On the other hand, you were young and you may have been under the influence of adults who coerced you to do things so even that could be forgiven if you've kept your nose clean ever since. The idea is not to throw people away because they made a mistake when they were still a child.

 

[21Rush12]

Well as I said, I'm very hard on myself. I was just being negative. The 3.9 GPA with juvenile history was me, then compared it with an example.

To me, this says "here was a kid headed down a really bad road, and he turned his $hit around and has a fantastic academic record"

If I were an ADCOM I would be in a hurry to meet that person. And as a lowly premed, I'm really glad to hear that that's what happened for you. It's clear that you've been through more than many of us and come out in a great position. Don't sweat the ten year old small stuff. If anything, this could make for a great PS that describes the hill you climbed to be here today.

 

[gyngyn]

The AMCAS specifically states that you should omit juvenile records. If they ask about it later, it will be taken into consideration. I like to say that the measure most schools will take is this, "Would we want a person who did this in our community?" Underage driving? Well, you aren't capable of doing that again, eh? Drugs -- that may depend on what the drug was, the quantity, the intent. If a car you were driving at age 13 had a joint in the ashtray, you are likely in the clear. If you were an underage drug mule moving product north from Arizona being used because authorities "go easy" on juveniles, then it is a different kettle of fish. On the other hand, you were young and you may not have been under the influence of adults who coerced you to do things so even that could be forgiven if you've kept your nose clean ever since. The idea is not to throw people away because they made a mistake when they were still a child.

That is correct. It is in the secondary that schools will ask for more information than is requested in the primary.

 

[LizzyM]

That is correct. It is in the secondary that schools will ask for more information than is requested in the primary.

and if something turns up even if they didn't ask about it earlier, they may ask after the offer is on the table.

 

[gyngyn]

and if something turns up even if they didn't ask about it earlier, they may ask after the offer is on the table.

Bet on it.

 

[Tgn2014]

To me, this says "here was a kid headed down a really bad road, and he turned his $hit around and has a fantastic academic record"

If I were an ADCOM I would be in a hurry to meet that person. And as a lowly premed, I'm really glad to hear that that's what happened for you. It's clear that you've been through more than many of us and come out in a great position. Don't sweat the ten year old small stuff. If anything, this could make for a great PS that describes the hill you climbed to be here today.

I appreciate this reply, I really hope they will see the same too.
I am really dedicated to pursuing this career, I really want it.

 

[21Rush12]

I certainly hope you're successful. And as others have noted, juvenile record doesn't appear necessary. So with your stats you may just be able to finally breathe a sigh of relief that it won't haunt you anymore.

 

[studentofsdn]

SWIM got into trouble as a juvenile and went to court for it. A plea bargain was taken and the prosecutor clearly stated to SWIM and their family that the case is legally summed up as a "juvenile indictment" and will be sealed after age 18. The prosecutor told SWIM that this is totally different than a conviction and would only come up in a professional background check if applying for a certain level of security clearance in the government; none of which would be required in a hospital system as a medical student. SWIM is currently applying and not expecting any issues due to the language used in the legal disclosure sections not applying to SWIM. Hope this helps.

 

[Time Table]

SWIM got into trouble as a juvenile and went to court for it. A plea bargain was taken and the prosecutor clearly stated to SWIM and their family that the case is legally summed up as a "juvenile indictment" and will be sealed after age 18. The prosecutor told SWIM that this is totally different than a conviction and would only come up in a professional background check if applying for a certain level of security clearance in the government; none of which would be required in a hospital system as a medical student. SWIM is currently applying and not expecting any issues due to the language used in the legal disclosure sections not applying to SWIM. Hope this helps.

Would you happen to know what SWIY did?

 

[Tgn2014]

I was reading about a thread on becoming a police officer with a juvenile record (career field with similar application aspects). Another member of the site mentioned that a police officer still got accepted, even though he stole a small school bus at the age of 16. If I recall correctly, he was completely honest in his application.
However, you cannot trust everything from the Internet.
Though, assuming that their is a possibility of this actually being true, brings me a bit of peace. A bit irrelevant, but I just wanted to add that.
I do appreciate everyone's kindness on the forum.

 

[studentofsdn]

Would you happen to know what SWIY did?

SWIM faced counts of arson and vandalism

 

[candbgirl]

If a juvenile conviction is sealed, it's sealed. Answer what you think is best.

If a medical school wants to go to court and unseal it, then they should go right ahead. But don't be bullied into answering a question a certain way. There are juvenile privacy issues here.

He said his records aren't sealed.

 

[21Rush12]

This question really is for an attorney...it may be worth paying for an hour of his/her time to have a legal look. That way if they accuse you of lying by omission you have the defense of acting on advice of legal counsel.