Advice appreciated-MA or?

[Horses4Me]

Hello,

This is my second year applying to clinical programs, and I am facing the reality that I may not get in again this year. I have been reading threads regarding back-up plans, books regarding grad school, ect, but haven't yet found one specific to my situation. I was wondering if anyone might have some advice or insight on what my best route might be if I do not get in this year? Masters in counseling or clinical psych? Keep applying?

I have a yr and a half of clinical/field work experience, 1 semester as a research assistant in a lab, 3.7 GPA, decent but not high GRE scores, and good letters of recommendation. However, I feel my main hindering factor is my lack of research experience.

If I could obtain research experience I am guessing this would be my best option, but I am not sure where I would find this opportunity since I am no longer a student. Or perhaps getting a masters to show I am ready for a phd or psyd? One with a thesis option? Any suggestions on where non-students gain research experience?

I have been considering online programs but have heard from some that they are not looked upon favorably by admissions unless they are out of a brick-and-mortar university.

I would appreciate any input.

Thank you, and best of luck to all you fellow applicants! Congrats to those who received interviews

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[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-get-into-a-ma-program.1180345/#post-17377241

This thread may help you

 

[deleted343839]

It sounds like your academics are OK. Try to get some research experience (at least 1 year) through a paid RA job rather than a master's program. Check the job listings at local universities, hospitals, etc. Or even volunteer to work in a lab while you work for money elsewhere. Also, re-take your GRE with the goal of really nailing it. You don't need any more clinical-type experience, so if you find yourself with free time to spare, use it to prepare for the GRE. Do not, under any circumstances, waste your time and money on an online graduate degree program.

 

[WisNeuro]

Do not, under any circumstances, waste your time and money on an online graduate degree program.

Seconded. The applications we received for internship and postdocs this year were not even close to the cutoff for serious consideration.

 

[temppsych123]

Work on getting research experience, even if you have to volunteer. Look up universities or research institutes near where you live, they'll often have a contact email/number to get in touch if you want to be an RA. Labs need people to enter data, run studies, do lit searches, etc., and if you are willing to work for free that's a huge plus. Doesn't have to be much time per week even, just something to show you've really gotten experience in a lab and you know what research is all about. If you can submit a poster using data from that lab to a local, regional, or even national conference, that's even better!

 

[Horses4Me]

Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate all of your input. I had a feeling I really needed to boost my research experience, but was torn on how to go about doing this. I will definitely look into local places to see if they have openings in their labs.

I have also found a couple masters degree programs that offer a thesis component in their clinical mental health track. If I am able to secure research experience along the way, any thoughts on this route?

 

[MadeHumanitate]

If you're interested -- Wake Forest University, William & Mary (and to a lesser extent Villanova) offer excellent, fully-funded MA programs in psychology. They're research intensive, offer ta/ra-ships, plenty of opportunity to gain experience with theses and research projects. Could be worth looking into for you; I know a program like this has helped me look far more marketable and given me a taste of what doctoral work is really like.

 

[EmotRegulation]

As a faculty member in a PhD program, I'll say that students who have done an experimental masters as a way to get research experience do pretty well in admissions. A masters in "clinical" is not helpful unless it involves a thesis (and it would need to be of good quality), and experimental is better. Trying to get presentation and/or publication opportunities as a masters student would also help.

That said, I echo the notion that a paid research assistant gig might be preferable. Check out this website for some postbacc job listings: http://clinicalpsychgradschool.org/pbacc.php

 

[Horses4Me]

Thank you for the program recommendations. Ideally, I'd like to stay in the Northwest/Midwest area. However, I am finding the majority of programs seem to be farther east.

EmotRegulation, I really appreciate the input you gave. I recently learned of Fielding University, which offers a post baccalaureate certificate in clinical psychology. In your professional opinion, would this certificate combined with research paid experience, or an experimental or counseling masters, make a candidate more competitive?

 

[Horses4Me]

I was considering the University of Colorado-Denver, as they have a masters in clinical mental health counseling that offers both a thesis and practicum track. Perhaps this thesis option would allow me to gain the necessary research experience, especially if I were to be heavily involved in the professors' research?

 

[WisNeuro]

EmotRegulation, I really appreciate the input you gave. I recently learned of Fielding University, which offers a post baccalaureate certificate in clinical psychology. In your professional opinion, would this certificate combined with research paid experience, or an experimental or counseling masters, make a candidate more competitive?

Fielding is not a respected institution. I'd look for other options.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I recently learned of Fielding University, which offers a post baccalaureate certificate in clinical psychology.

I would not recommend them.

The prior post w. WF and the like are all quality programs. I second the recommendation for an experimental masters program, as you'll get far more useful training in research.

MHC programs are not going to get you an edge for a Ph.D. program bc the classes tend to be VERY clinically oriented and lean away from the deeper theory and research.

 

[Horses4Me]

Thank you for the recommendations. Would anyone happen to know of any reputable and quality masters programs in the Northwest/Midwest area?

 

[futurepsydoc]

Unfortunately, I do not know of any MA/MS programs in the midwest or northwest. I think considering an RA position, as other have mentioned, is a strong way to obtain research experience and strong letters of recommendation. Additionally, it has the added benefit of being a paid position vs having to pay tuition. That said, there are certain MA/MS programs that may offer significant funding for their students, which are typically in the form of Research/Teaching Assistant positions. While these positions are rare, there are some programs out there which offer them. If you are not geographically restricted and wish to pursue an MA/MS as a stepping stone to a doctoral program, I would suggest looking into those programs which offer significant financial aid to reduce debt. In the long run this can be extremely helpful.

 

[chicandtoughness]

[deleted]

 

[Horses4Me]

Thank you for your input, futurepsydoc! I have been looking into RA positions, as well, though I have heard these positions are almost equally competitive to obtain as grad school positions. I do like the points you brought up, and it makes a lot of sense! I will definitely look into it.

Chicaandtoughnes-That is a wonderful question. The only clinical psychology masters programs I have come across thus far in my searches are all online and do not offer any practicum or research components. In addition, you cannot sit for licensing exams after receiving your degree as those with a masters in counseling can. I was considering this option as well

 

[Horses4Me]

*The programs I have come across do not have the necessary accreditation to meet licensing requirements.

 

[chicandtoughness]

*The programs I have come across do not have the necessary accreditation to meet licensing requirements.

It varies state to state. In Texas, any psych-related masters can sit for LPC, and masters in clinical psych can actually sit for LPA.

 

[EmotRegulation]

"Experimental" is the broad term to cover non-applied areas, which usually includes developmental, cognitive, social and others (e.g., behavioral neuroscience). You'll be expected to get broad training in these areas as a clinical PhD student anyway, so doing research in one of those areas now won't hurt you. Developmental is a good choice if you're interested in lifespan issues, childhood or adolescent disorders, etc. Social is a good general choice because it's a social world--many social psychologists study overlapping stuff to clinical psychologists (emotion, relationships, group processes, psychology and law, morality).

A masters program in clinical psychology that has no research is a waste of time if you're aiming toward a doctoral program. It won't save you any time, and won't help your admissions at most places.

 

[chicandtoughness]

[deleted]

 

[Ollie123]

But if a masters program in clinical psychology does have a research component, is that preferred over an experimental program...?

Obviously it depends on a lot of factors. In general, I'd say the experimental program is still probably preferred (at least for PhD programs). Few clinical masters programs have SOLID research components, even if research opportunities are available. I've certainly seen some that do though (e.g. UNC Wilmington). In general, its largely going to be mentor-specific, school-specific, dependent on what type of program you are applying to, etc. so I'm not sure general rules exist or are meaningful.

 

[chicandtoughness]

[deleted]

 

[LM02]

It might be helpful to take a step back here, and ask yourself what your end goal will be. Given that you have not gotten much research experience up until now, it doesn't appear that you are primarily motivated for the PhD because you want a research career. If that's the case, spending all of this time getting research experience, just to get into a program that will expect you to conduct your own independent research while you obtain your clinical training, sounds like it may not be the best use of your time.

If you are interested in a primarily clinical career, there are many options that do not require the PhD. You could consider social work, with a plan to pursue a LCSW. You could consider obtaining a masters in counseling and getting licensed that way - or you could consider pursuing a PsyD (not online or at a free-standing professional school, but there are some university-based ones out there). I don't know, maybe you might actually enjoy a degree in public health? Mental health nursing? From reading all of the options you've considered, it may be wise to take a moment to regroup and consider your long-term goals before taking this next step, especially if it's "just to get into a PhD program." Because at the end of the day, that's not really the end goal, but rather just a step toward a much longer career path.

 

[futurepsydoc]

I agree with LM02.

With respect to MA/MS programs, if your ultimate goal is to pursue a PhD/PsyD, obtaining research experience will be more important than gaining clinical training at the master’s level. I believe that most people on this forum would agree with that assertion. Experimental Psychology programs will definitely provide increased opportunities for research and solid exposure to the basic theories/science that underlie the field. From my point of view, provide the following:

1) Advanced training in research methods and statistics.
2) Intense exposure to research and opportunities to participate in it -
a. Allow you to working in a lab or several labs
b. Require completion of independent thesis
c. Encourage/Require presentation posters
d. Increased opportunity to author or co-author a publication.
3) Forum to demonstrate your commitment to the pursuit of advanced education in the field.
4) Can demonstrate your ability to successfully complete graduate level coursework.

Overall, the entire process can help you build your knowledge based, bolster your experience, and allow you to become a more well-rounded PhD/PsyD candidate. In addition, you can obtain strong references and mentoring that may not readily exist outside of academia.

In contrast, the downside to a general or experimental MA/MS in psychology is that it is a typically considered a stepping stone degree to further doctoral training. As such, it will likely not open as many career doors on its own, save further academic pursuits (i.e., doctoral study). For example, a MA/MS is experimental psychology will not enable you to pursue a license in counseling should you decide that you do not want to pursue a doctoral degree. It is not to say that you could not use the skills acquired to find a research position somewhere or apply said skills in another discipline (e.g., data analyst). For arguments sake, if you decided that you did not wish to pursue a PhD/PsyD, the time and money you spent would not get you closer to being a master’s level clinician. Along these lines, you would have to pursue additional education and training to become a master’s level provider.

Clinical MA/MS programs are typically designed to help you obtain a license in counseling or applied clinical application of some kind. The emphasis of these programs is typically on practice, not research methods or psychological science. As such, many programs often do not provide as many opportunities for research by design, as the goal is to train a master's level clinician not a researcher. If your goal is to use the program to obtain research experience, the degree may not allow you to gain the experience you are looking to obtain. While I am sure there are programs that do provide you with strong research experience and clinical experience, I am not familiar with them by name.

Unlike a general or experimental MA/MS program, the clinical masters programs will prepare you for pursuing a license in the future. Notably, if there is not a strong research component you may not be as competitive for PhD/PsyD programs, which now appears to be the area you are looking to address. The benefit to a clinical program, however, would be that if you decided to not pursue a PhD/PsyD you would have received a level of clinical training that could allow you to obtain a license to practice at the master’s level.

Ultimately, your career goals are critical in making decision about which path to choose, especially given the time you will need to dedicate to your education. Having said that, it is important to consider the cost of the degree, time required to completing the degree, loans vs debt (i.e., especially in the context of past, present student loans), and to what extent to which a given MA/MS program's students gain acceptance into PhD/PsyD programs. I would strongly encourage you to research the programs you are considering and see how well their students fair when applying to doctoral programs. Moreover, I would seek out guidance from a trusted mentor or advisor, who is familiar with you and your situation. There are multitude of avenues to pursue with the Mental Health field that are worthy of exploring.

 

[Horses4Me]

Hello all,

I can't begin to express my gratitude for the thorough posts you have shared regarding this topic. I really appreciate the cumulative advice, and will continue to return to it as a point of reference.

I did not get accepted this time around to a doctoral program; however, in one situation my application was deferred to the program's Masters track in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. After much consideration, I decided to accept this offer. I plan to become heavily involved in any and all research opportunities, and will continue to research doctoral programs for the future. While it sounds like a masters in experimental psychology might better position me when reapplying for doctoral programs, I decided to go this route in case I decide to (or am not able to) pursue further education after receiving my masters. At least with this route, I will be able to sit for licensure and have a solid career while I am working toward gaining acceptance into a doctoral program.

I'm hoping this step turns out for the best! I plan to take a couple courses through this program and see if it is a good fit for me. I did not specifically apply to masters program; thus, I am not sure it would have been my first choice. Although there is no thesis component, it does appear to offer some solid research opportunities. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of masters students transferring to a different program (if they have only taken one or two semesters)?

Thank you.

 

[deleted343839]

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of masters students transferring to a different program (if they have only taken one or two semesters)?

I've heard of people dropping out of one graduate program and starting a different one, but not a true transfer in the sense of another program accepting all or most of your credits, etc. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's rare at best.

 

[Wendi22]

Hello all,

I can't begin to express my gratitude for the thorough posts you have shared regarding this topic. I really appreciate the cumulative advice, and will continue to return to it as a point of reference.

I did not get accepted this time around to a doctoral program; however, in one situation my application was deferred to the program's Masters track in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. After much consideration, I decided to accept this offer. I plan to become heavily involved in any and all research opportunities, and will continue to research doctoral programs for the future. While it sounds like a masters in experimental psychology might better position me when reapplying for doctoral programs, I decided to go this route in case I decide to (or am not able to) pursue further education after receiving my masters. At least with this route, I will be able to sit for licensure and have a solid career while I am working toward gaining acceptance into a doctoral program.

I'm hoping this step turns out for the best! I plan to take a couple courses through this program and see if it is a good fit for me. I did not specifically apply to masters program; thus, I am not sure it would have been my first choice. Although there is no thesis component, it does appear to offer some solid research opportunities. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of masters students transferring to a different program (if they have only taken one or two semesters)?

Thank you.

Two individuals left my MS in clinical psychology because they did not like the emphasis placed on research. One completed the first two semesters and dropped out. She later enrolled in an M.ed Counseling Psychology program and she did have to start over. The other left after just one semester and did not return to school because she could not find a program that would take her credits. Finally, someone came into my MS program after completing one year of an experimental masters degree and he had to take everything (even though he clearly did not need to start from scratch). I also know it is hard to find phd programs that will transfer majority of courses so I am guessing transferring masters courses is also difficult??

It may not be impossible but I just would not bank on it because I am guessing most programs at the masters level have a training model in mind and will want you trained their way. So do the best you can to make sure it is a good fit before devoting time and money to the program. I hope it works out and you get the experience you desire!