Advice Needed .. Pakistan or U.S

[PreMedStudent]

Hello everyone i am in urgent need of some advice.. I have already started my undergrad. here in the states but i have seen many of my classmates leaving for Pakistan to go directly into Medical School. Would anyone recommend it, since i do not know if i will be accepted to any medical school in the states.. Also it takes 5 years to become an M.B.B.S in Pakistan and when i return to the states i would have to give the USMLE and wait for residency..

Please share your thoughts or experience.. Thanks

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[kyra201]

Originally posted by PreMedStudent
Hello everyone i am in urgent need of some advice.. I have already started my undergrad. here in the states but i have seen many of my classmates leaving for Pakistan to go directly into Medical School. Would anyone recommend it, since i do not know if i will be accepted to any medical school in the states.. Also it takes 5 years to become an M.B.B.S in Pakistan and when i return to the states i would have to give the USMLE and wait for residency..

Please share your thoughts or experience.. Thanks

That depends on what you are interested in. As a medical student applying for residency right now, I can tell you (both from doctors I've worked with and people I met during the interview trail) that it is hard for a foreign grad to return to the US to practice. This is a big problem if you are interested in going into a competitive field such as orthopedics, radiology, etc. Even for less competitive fields such as medicine, you may have to settle for lower tier hospitals that US grads wouldn't consider going to. I am by no means trying to put any foreign grads down, siince most of the ones I met are brilliant, but keep in mind your options are definitely decreased.

 

[ys]

There are many pros and cons to each side. The biggest pro to going to Pakistan is guaranteed acceptance into med school. In the US you could go through 4 yrs. of undergrad and be stuck with a useless degree in biology. However if you are confident in your academic performance through pre med then I would recommend staying put.

 

[gwugrad2003]

PreMedStudent
I finished my undergrad last year but was waitlisted at a lot of schools. I deiced to go Pakistan for many reasons well thought over. But I must tell you that you must first think this over with a clear mind. This is a big decision. YES you will get into any school here. I come to realize that money talks, and its voice can be heard to a great extent. I know of three students that "bought" admission seats that came from the US and the Middle East.
Since you are already in the States I would, and along with everyone else strongly recommend that you finish your undergrad and at least attempt the application cycle. You want to know what you turn down so there are no regrets in the future.
Yes it is a 5yr long program and there is no "official" schedule. As far a taking the USMLE, yes you have to take it along with all the other US students. Speaking to students that graduated from Pakistan they seemed to have no problem finding residencies after passing Step 2. Of course they all graduated from King Edward Medical College, the school that I attend.
If you have any other questions I will be happy to answer them.

 

[PreMedStudent]

Thank you everyone for your advice.. I have made the decision of staying here in the states and hopefully will get admission one day to a medical school.

GW so are you a resident now, i mean was it an easy process going to pakistan and coming back waiting to get into a residency program etc. Yes, i know its easy to get admission there but when i return to states and dont get a good hospital for residency then that worries me. Thanks again!

 

[Tom345]

would recommend it if you want to finish your med school in 5.5 years and experience asia. you will get lots of clinical experience- cases that you will not see here... and its cheaper. but why pakistan? go to a safer country like India or Nepal..you can have lots of fun too.

 

[Bond]

Well Who said Pakistan is not a safe country and u can have as much fun there as u can in INDIA or Nepal

 

[Tom345]

Bond, you are absolutely correct. Pakistan is a safe country - if you have a beard, a turban and an AK 47. I was merely addressing the doctors who dont have these.

 

[Bond]

Tom 345

I guess u dont know difference b/w Pakistan and Afganistan . The profile u mentioned if predomintenly in Afganistan and some in Peshawar but that doesnt make it unsafe.

I think u know what u see on media and i am telling u what is actually happening there

 

[mzamir_01]

Originally posted by gwugrad2003
PreMedStudent
YES you will get into any school here. I come to realize that money talks, and its voice can be heard to a great extent. I know of three students that "bought" admission seats that came from the US and the Middle East.


i think the "technical" term would be that the college has "reserved" seats for people with money......but werent even u ppl merit listed? i mean if 20 ppl applied and there were only 5 seats then there had to be some sort of selection criteria based on merit. and even the ppl on self-finance (those paying abt 2.5 lakh a year) had to be amongst the top 2000 in the punjab.

oh yes, atleast for King Edward, i can say that they changed their policy from this year and now accept foreign students only if they've cleared their MCAT and not just SAT1+2 like before though the A-level criteria stands the same.


tom345, yes pak isnt the safest place on the planet if ur a foreigner, but its not like u walk around fearing for ur life. the hardliners are few and concenterated near our border with afghanistan...and besides the education institutes are banned from any sort of such activities by law. but i agree may be singapore or malaysia may be a bit more fun. believe me, going to india would be the same as going to any institute in pak.

 

[gwugrad2003]

""reserved" seats for people with money......" lol I like that term MZamir. There was "technically" a merit list out for foreign seats but I have not yet seen it. It was ?supposedly? posted at one time and then taken down. I just know of those students "buying" seats. I am not sure of the actual selection criteria either. The system here just boggles the mind on how it seems to continue year after year for selecting seats


PreMedStudent.
I am not a resident YET, knock on wood, I am a first year student who is enjoying his experience in Pakistan and at KEMC. I think that you have made a wise choice on staying in the states.

Regarding getting into good programs after you graduate, that depends entirely on you, your USMLE scores, your grades, your personal statement, and how you interview. There are many other factors that determine where you go. I know of people that graduated from KEMC and are at Dartmouth, Penn State, UPEN, and MCP. These are all good programs. You just have to work hard and not think about doubts in the future.
If you have any more q's about KEMC or any thing else just ask us

The atmosphere here is great, for a male at least . There is a lot of things here you can do, but once good friends are made you will enjoy your experience even more. Regarding safety, Lahore is as safe as you can get. It is a great city with a friendly population. The most dangerous thing here is the traffic. If you can avoid driving please do. People give no regard to others while driving, AND AVOID THE RIKSHAAAA!!! The noise pollution alone will drive you crazy.

 

[mzamir_01]

Originally posted by gwugrad2003
""reserved" seats for people with money......" lol I like that term MZamir. There was "technically" a merit list out for foreign seats but I have not yet seen it. It was ?supposedly? posted at one time and then taken down. I just know of those students "buying" seats. I am not sure of the actual selection criteria either. The system here just boggles the mind on how it seems to continue year after year for selecting seats


The atmosphere here is great, for a male at least . There is a lot of things here you can do, but once good friends are made you will enjoy your experience even more. Regarding safety, Lahore is as safe as you can get. It is a great city with a friendly population. The most dangerous thing here is the traffic. If you can avoid driving please do. People give no regard to others while driving, AND AVOID THE RIKSHAAAA!!! The noise pollution alone will drive you crazy.

the list u mentioned, i may know something in that regard cos a friend of mine applied through the ecomomic affairs division for the foreign seats when she couldnt get in thru open merit and she said she qualified 2nd or 3rd on the list so may be it was published???

ur right abt friends...if u've made some good friends everything kicks into place...u can laugh off everything. and no, the girls are having their share of the fun too, just its takes some time to get used the CONTINUOUS grind of studying at KEMC...though i suppose that stands for all med-schools!

 

[mzamir_01]

no.... i've changed my mind, KEMC is no fun.

 

[Premedtomed]

India is way safer bro.

 

[hburney]

Dear premed student in US and all the ppl who responded,

I am pretty much in the same boat, but have resided in Canada since 4 yrs, I have just completed 1st yr of university,and as my family is going back to Karachi Pakistan, I have a choice of either completing undergrad here and go through the admission process here and succeed or fail and get stuck with a biology degree, or to apply to Aga Khan Med School, the hitch is (apart from getting in) that the fee is 18000 US dollars a year as I will be considered to be a foreign national .

can I get the student loan or what are the options?

What about Dow/ Sind etc please clarify the picture for me,

I do see many doctors from Pakistan doing the USMLE and getting absorbed in the system in USA, though the Canadian picture is bad. I am terribly confused.
pls help
Thanks
Mariam

 

[hburney]

Dear premed student in US and all the ppl who responded,

I am pretty much in the same boat, but have resided in Canada since 4 yrs, I have just completed 1st yr of university,and as my family is going back to Karachi Pakistan, I have a choice of either completing undergrad here and go through the admission process here and succeed or fail and get stuck with a biology degree, or to apply to Aga Khan Med School, the hitch is (apart from getting in) that the fee is 18000 US dollars a year as I will be considered to be a foreign national .

can I get the student loan or what are the options?

What about Dow/ Sind etc please clarify the picture for me,

I do see many doctors from Pakistan doing the USMLE and getting absorbed in the system in USA, though the Canadian picture is bad. I am terribly confused.
pls help
Thanks
Mariam

 

[mzamir_01]

PREMEDTOMED first of all, who in the world told you that indian med schools are more prestigious than pakistani ones? what a misnomer man!

if your family is moving back to pakistan, firstly you will have to make the decision of whether ur going to stay back in canada or not and then you can worry about financial aid. Agha khan wont give you any aid except in the form of loans which they will charge interest upon, so i think its best if you just drop that option. even pakistani citizens are payinga about 3-4 lakhs a year.

about Dow and other government funded medical schools. they have reserved seats for expatriates and you will be paying about $6,000-$10,000 tops a year. at least thats better than $18000 but although these colleges will give u some of the best clinical exposure to medical cases in the world, but their lecture theatres are badly equiped and large class sizes etc are a problem. i am studying at King Edward Medical College, Lahore which churns out the best doctors in the country and the conditions are the same. a lot of our doctors go and do residencies abroad and become leaders in their areas; so dont worry about killing ur career by just going to med-school in pak.

all the best and let me know if u want to ask something else.

 

[Maple]

believe me, going to india would be the same as going to any institute in pak.

Yo , India is way safer bro. Have you heard of Indian medical schools? Even people here agree that they are among the best.
I don't think that Pakistani medical schools are comparatively prestigious

About the safety issue, what in the world are you talking about? Pakistan harbors dons and terrorists or freedom fighters if that is what you think they are [/QUOTE]



Of course your opinions are objective and based on comparative experience gathered by attending both Pakistani and Indian Medical schools? (rolling eyes out of my head...but since the smiley can't show that so i thought I'd type it out since you'll probably miss the sarcasm intended!)

and yes India is very safe indeed if you ignore the frequent religious and cross ethnic violence which erupts, oh I don't know, every couple of months!

 

[mzamir_01]

Of course your opinions are objective and based on comparative experience gathered by attending both Pakistani and Indian Medical schools? (rolling eyes out of my head...but since the smiley can't show that so i thought I'd type it out since you'll probably miss the sarcasm intended!)

and yes India is very safe indeed if you ignore the frequent religious and cross ethnic violence which erupts, oh I don't know, every couple of months!

 

[Maple]

Hey mzamir,

How's school? tell me about your classes etc.. I just finished my first year at Med. Coll Wisconsin. It was pretty tough..but I made it! I thought it would be interesting to compare notes.

Hope to hear from you soon,

khuda hafiz,

Maple

 

[NDESTRUKT]

are you kidding me?! go to a US med school. hands down.

Indian and Pakistani schools aren't bad but still...US would probably be better in terms of education.

 

[Premedtomed]

Yo , India is way safer bro. Have you heard of Indian medical schools? Even people here agree that they are among the best.
I don't think that Pakistani medical schools are comparatively prestigious

About the safety issue, what in the world are you talking about? Pakistan harbors dons and terrorists or freedom fighters if that is what you think they are

Of course your opinions are objective and based on comparative experience gathered by attending both Pakistani and Indian Medical schools? (rolling eyes out of my head...but since the smiley can't show that so i thought I'd type it out since you'll probably miss the sarcasm intended!)

and yes India is very safe indeed if you ignore the frequent religious and cross ethnic violence which erupts, oh I don't know, every couple of months! [/QUOTE]

That's because the newspapers freely communicate everything that happens

 

[Premedtomed]

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/04.17/HarvardMedicalI.html

Harvard Medical International Forms Alliance with Indian Medical School
A historic interinstitutional alliance between Sri Ramachandra Medical School & Research Institute (Deemed University) at Porur, Tamil Nadu, in India, and Harvard Medical International has been executed.


Any Pakistan medical school engaged in something like this?

Supporting terror may be

 

[vstyle]

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/04.17/HarvardMedicalI.html

Harvard Medical International Forms Alliance with Indian Medical School
A historic interinstitutional alliance between Sri Ramachandra Medical School & Research Institute (Deemed University) at Porur, Tamil Nadu, in India, and Harvard Medical International has been executed.


Any Pakistan medical school engaged in something like this?

Supporting terror may be

Yeah, I plan on attending Sri Ramachandra for the upcoming term. The alliance is definitely a factor in my decision to attend. Apparently, the top 2 students of each class are awarded a fellowship at Harvard Medical Center. Anyways, the school is great. Peaceful, quiet location, with very nice facilities. They have a Harvard Library there which was very recently built, and the surrounding campus environment is stunningly pleasant.

 

[Resident Alien]

wow the pakistan bashers havent gotten over the "india shining" slap bjp just got in the elections. Anyway, rhetoric aside, Agha Khan medical college students do rotations at Harvard and JHU. Ask them for further info.

 

[mzamir_01]

Any Pakistan medical school eng...snt even deserve a reply. talk to the hand...

 

[Premedtomed]

wow the pakistan bashers havent gotten over the "india shining" slap bjp just got in the elections. Anyway, rhetoric aside, Agha Khan medical college students do rotations at Harvard and JHU. Ask them for further info.

Is that a real Medical school? just kidding

 

[Resident Alien]

last poster,

i dont know what your point is?

250 million indians live hungry every day (read the latest WSJ) and thats roughly twice the population of pakistan.

My point is you fail to put things in perspective.

 

[Premedtomed]

last poster,

i dont know what your point is?

250 million indians live hungry every day (read the latest WSJ) and thats roughly twice the population of pakistan.

My point is you fail to put things in perspective.

population in Pakistan is on a big rise.

 

[Resident Alien]

Presuming you speak as an Indian (the majority of whom I'm glad your views dont represent), on what ground do you stand to talk about saving grace?

Your question is answered in my post above and if you read it again it says it was about perspective, which again you show a complete lack of. Unfortunate.

Sure, Pakistan's growth rate is 2.9% (which actually dropped from a rate of 3.1% if you so care to know) and poverty and social inequality is a problem.

People in glass houses cannot throw stones, I hope you reflect on that instead of "enlightening" us. You live in a fool's paradise if you think these problems either do not exist or are a lesser problem in Hindustan.

 

[gwugrad2003]

Nicely put resident alien. I think that this post has DRASTICALLY DEVIATED from the original intent. Lets just end it right here, what do you say ladies and gentelman?

 

[Resident Alien]

I second that .

Back to the original discussion, I actually second your advice earlier on, gwugrad. It all depends in the end on where you envision yourself practising medicine. If it is the US you desire, as I ended up deciding, try your level best to get into a US school. Returning to Pakistan and trying again to come back is putting yourself through unnecessarily hassle, in my opinion.

The only advantage I can see of studying medicine in Pakistan over USA is the cost of education. I agree that you see a lot of pathology at Pakistani hospitals, but if you are bent upon diversifying your experience, there is no shortage of it in the states, just that you go through a lot less hoops overseas than here . That said, I would definitely recommend an overseas experience....to give you a personal example, I did a 6 week study in Pakistani hospitals between 1st and 2nd year, and hope to do a clinical rotation there sometime in 4th year.

And for the record, I'm a lahori

 

[mzamir_01]

ahhh yes! the original topic! btw where do u do ur rotations Resident Alien? we are both at King Edward so allied with Mayo, Lady Aitchison and Wellington (i think there is another too!)

Lahories rock...!

 

[Resident Alien]

mzamir,

We dont really have an official program with medical schools in Pakistan. I think this is one area where you just have to set up things yourself. I dont know what restrictions KEMC will put on me if I want to rotate through Mayo....I really want a more laid back experience than hard core medicine . Thats why I hope to work something out at PIC where I did my original project at.

I wouldnt mind doing anythng at KEMC, my father, mamu and nana are all kemcolians . I'll just have to see what I can arrange.

 

[Premedtomed]

Presuming you speak as an Indian (the majority of whom I'm glad your views dont represent), on what ground do you stand to talk about saving grace?

Your question is answered in my post above and if you read it again it says it was about perspective, which again you show a complete lack of. Unfortunate.

Sure, Pakistan's growth rate is 2.9% (which actually dropped from a rate of 3.1% if you so care to know) and poverty and social inequality is a problem.

People in glass houses cannot throw stones, I hope you reflect on that instead of "enlightening" us. You live in a fool's paradise if you think these problems either do not exist or are a lesser problem in Hindustan.

Education in Pakistan: All Demand and Little Supply
by Masooma Habib

http://web.mit.edu/bilal/www/education/habib.html
posted on December 12, 2001

The situation is a "little" better in India. Agreed India's facing lot more problems like poverty, illiteracy, over population and militancy from our great neighbors ! If only Bangladesh hadn't jumped in the bandwagon, oh well it was after all East Pakistan!

 

[Resident Alien]

take your ignorance somewhere else. Nobody here will deny that Pakistan has problems, please focus your energy on your bharat mahaan and leave this post for its original intention.

 

[mzamir_01]

take your ignorance somewhere else. Nobody here will deny that Pakistan has problems, please focus your energy on your bharat mahaan and leave this post for its original intention.

I second that till infinity! its ppl like this guy that are responsible for bad feelings btw pak and india. so peace man and GIT!

 

[Premedtomed]

Glad to know Pakistan has some good medical schools hopefully more better educated people in the future can help establish good relations

 

[vstyle]

mzamir_01, you are right, but Resident Alien was equally responsible for this one--at least perpetuating it. Lastly, though I am a US citizen with Indian roots, I definitely don't agree with Premedtomed's bellicose attitude. However, though I have only been on the forums for a little while, I have seen many insightful and interesting posts from premedtomed and, as a future student at SRMC in porur, chennai, value his opinion and commentary.

From my glass house to yours ,
vivek

 

[Resident Alien]

mzamir_01, you are right, but Resident Alien was equally responsible for this one--at least perpetuating it.

Did you expect us to overlook comments that deserve to be criticized? Wait, dont respond, lest you blame me for perpetuating your criticism of me

 

[gwugrad2003]

Anybody want to start a pool on Kerrys running mate? . If i had to say so, my $$ will be on Edwards

 

[gwugrad2003]

Hey mzamir,
How are u? How is your break going? I am just gald to be home in the states, although i am not to happy with the physio exam that we have to take 2 DAYS AFTER WE COME BACK. I am just glad i got thorugh the last 2 months of school becase they were a killer. The physio exams with the substages and the stage was a nightmare, and don't forget the most insane biochem exam . Hopeully by next week i will start to prepare for the send up exams.

Take care
A

 

[Premedtomed]

Yeah I am sorry

 

[mzamir_01]

Hey mzamir,
How are u? How is your break going? I am just gald to be home in the states, although i am not to happy with the physio exam that we have to take 2 DAYS AFTER WE COME BACK. I am just glad i got thorugh the last 2 months of school becase they were a killer. The physio exams with the substages and the stage was a nightmare, and don't forget the most insane biochem exam . Hopeully by next week i will start to prepare for the send up exams.

Take care
A

hi gwugrad

im fine and my break is going great considering i havnt studied a thing! im so relieved u havent done either as yet! i went to KEMC yesturday for a meeting we had and i met Dr.Kamran, gulp, he has checked our biochem papers and was stunned at how stupid we were...

anyways on the brighter side, i finally figured ur identy! ur 144 and ill tell u how sometime but i always considered it unfair that u had plenty of opportunities to know who i was and i none myself! anyways, so how are thing? hope kerry wins...i hate bush!

 

[mzamir_01]

btw im ignoring pretom-guy cos he doesnt have an opinion worth listening to...narrow minded ppl normally don't.

 

[gwugrad2003]

Hey mzamir
Yea that is me, good ole 144. Should have just asked, i would have told you. Now that you know mine, care to let me in on your identity , I still have no idea who you are, some one once pointed you out, but I was not paying attention. Of course if you don't mind.

The biochem exams are graded huh, I already know my result . I don't understan Dr. Kamran, is this really a biochem class or is it an ethics/religous studies/Pak History/Life Story/Class.

Plan on starting to study for the physio test this week. If you don't mind i would greatly appreciate it if you were to send me the topics on the exam thourgh e-mail. All the other American guys went home and i can't seem to find my book where I worte it down. So when you get a chance can you e-mail it to me. Thank You very much!

Take Care
A

 

[PreMedStudent]

hmm well i guess i decided to stay here in states... some times i feel i should go to Lahore KEMC, but then people tell me about the strikes and no guarantees about graduating..

 

[mzamir_01]

hmm well i guess i decided to stay here in states... some times i feel i should go to Lahore KEMC, but then people tell me about the strikes and no guarantees about graduating..

man! we arent going to get our degress...bummer! lolz that hasnt happened in the last 180 years Premedstudent! We arent allowed to participate in ANY political activities or strikes by oath. Im sure ull do great in the States, hope everything works out great.

 

[mzamir_01]

Hey mzamir
Yea that is me, good ole 144. Should have just asked, i would have told you. Now that you know mine, care to let me in on your identity , I still have no idea who you are, some one once pointed you out, but I was not paying attention. Of course if you don't mind.

The biochem exams are graded huh, I already know my result . I don't understan Dr. Kamran, is this really a biochem class or is it an ethics/religous studies/Pak History/Life Story/Class.

Plan on starting to study for the physio test this week. If you don't mind i would greatly appreciate it if you were to send me the topics on the exam thourgh e-mail. All the other American guys went home and i can't seem to find my book where I worte it down. So when you get a chance can you e-mail it to me. Thank You very much!

*check ur email then*

 

[issyed]

Dear premed student in US and all the ppl who responded,

I am pretty much in the same boat, but have resided in Canada since 4 yrs, I have just completed 1st yr of university,and as my family is going back to Karachi Pakistan, I have a choice of either completing undergrad here and go through the admission process here and succeed or fail and get stuck with a biology degree, or to apply to Aga Khan Med School, the hitch is (apart from getting in) that the fee is 18000 US dollars a year as I will be considered to be a foreign national .

can I get the student loan or what are the options?

What about Dow/ Sind etc please clarify the picture for me,

I do see many doctors from Pakistan doing the USMLE and getting absorbed in the system in USA, though the Canadian picture is bad. I am terribly confused.
pls help
Thanks
Mariam

Hey Mariam, if you don't mind me asking, which option did you end up choosing?