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Aiming too low??
- Thread starter Giveypup
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Yes, I go to a deflated school and it eats your soul so I understand her feelings. I think top schools are really looking for people who dedicated a lot of time to research.
Also, why not UChicago?
Also, why not UChicago?
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She should give it a shot, her scores are right in the range of the higher schools you are saying. Definitely have some safeties and state schools, but tell her that she can reach into the top 15-30 range and throw in like one or two top 15 schools.
She has the typical pre-med mentality which makes you feel as if nothing except perfection is required to get in.
She has the typical pre-med mentality which makes you feel as if nothing except perfection is required to get in.
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You really cannot overstate the value of research at the top schools. Everyone I met at my interviews at the top schools had extensive research experiences, many had publications and I am sure others just didn't say they did. Frankly, a major reason to go to these schools in the first place is the opportunity to get very well connected in academic medicine/research. I don't know if this is true for all the schools on your list, but I am sure it is true for some. Also, the top programs are leaning towards admitting more and more students who have already completed their education in undergrad. These students have had more time to build impressive resumes and often work or volunteer at a resume boosting place: full time research, TFA, peace corps, americorps, Fulbright, etc.
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If your daughter doesn't have research, she won't get in. Sorry
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Does she have some research? A first author pub isn't necessary, but you need to get your feet wet at least.
Applying to only "low tier" schools is not good either. She should balance her list with safeties, mid tiers, and top tiers. Her GPAs are still within range at most of the top tiers, just on the lower end.
In the end though, you should let her apply wherever she wants, but it is much better to have a more targeted list.
Applying to only "low tier" schools is not good either. She should balance her list with safeties, mid tiers, and top tiers. Her GPAs are still within range at most of the top tiers, just on the lower end.
In the end though, you should let her apply wherever she wants, but it is much better to have a more targeted list.
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Assuming you're painting her achievements accurately and not viewing through a parent's rose-colored-glasses, then I would say that yes, she's being too modest. She sounds like a very strong candidate. Of course, no one is assured admission, but a school that is well-regarded and known to deflate does have some allowances made -- not that she'd really need them with the GPA she's got.
There are students with her numbers who are admitted to Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford and UCSF every year -- many of them. Does she have a shot? Who knows. Since they can choose just about anyone they want, those schools tend to look well beyond the numbers and go for the most interesting backstories, so your daughter's 6-years of international service may be of interest - especially since it was as much (more) behind the scenes as 'medical tourism' international travel.
Anyway - since you're paying, ask her to apply anyway, just to humor you. She may just get an interview. She is in the ballpark. As for your connections at UCLA and Northwestern -- If they're strong connections with well-respected people, they should be good for an interview. Unless you've donated a building, your connections are not strong enough to get her accepted if the school feels she's not qualified. (However, she certainly sounds qualified.)
Your daughter's wise to also apply broadly in the upper-mid-tiers. The top-20 schools are incredibly difficult to get into, so she should apply to some schools where her numbers are just under their 90% rates for her safeties. Schools where her stats are above the 90%ile will know they're her safeties, and likely not waste their resources interviewing a candidate who is likely to have several more prestigious acceptances.
There are students with her numbers who are admitted to Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford and UCSF every year -- many of them. Does she have a shot? Who knows. Since they can choose just about anyone they want, those schools tend to look well beyond the numbers and go for the most interesting backstories, so your daughter's 6-years of international service may be of interest - especially since it was as much (more) behind the scenes as 'medical tourism' international travel.
Anyway - since you're paying, ask her to apply anyway, just to humor you. She may just get an interview. She is in the ballpark. As for your connections at UCLA and Northwestern -- If they're strong connections with well-respected people, they should be good for an interview. Unless you've donated a building, your connections are not strong enough to get her accepted if the school feels she's not qualified. (However, she certainly sounds qualified.)
Your daughter's wise to also apply broadly in the upper-mid-tiers. The top-20 schools are incredibly difficult to get into, so she should apply to some schools where her numbers are just under their 90% rates for her safeties. Schools where her stats are above the 90%ile will know they're her safeties, and likely not waste their resources interviewing a candidate who is likely to have several more prestigious acceptances.
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What do you mean by "scrubbing in" on the medical mission? These missions often aren't looked upon too favorably, especially if they allow pre-meds to perform procedures and give medical care that they are not licensed/certified to provide.
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So, a couple things- the list of schools you provided are kind of all over the map as far as "tier." Using USNews (the default rankings), UCSF is #3 and Tufts is #49. It sounds like your daughter could definitely see some love from schools in the Tufts range and above (the highest schools tend to like some research and/or unique experiences to go along with stellar stats). Motherly love can sometimes feel like motherly pressure, and it sounds like she's not in a terribly receptive mood right now.
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I'm curious what these "lowest tier" schools are myself.
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I wouldn't be certain. Best to get research for research heavy schools
She has a good shot at top-25's and the schools you listed - if she's interested in them, then she should apply and leave no regrets. First author (or any) publications are definitely not necessary, but research experience is a positive. I believe her application would be stellar among the lower-tiers, although the process is so unpredictable you never know!
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It sounds like she will be successful regardless of where she goes to medical school.
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Your daughter clearly needs to work on her self-esteem. I do agree, that the sGPA might be problematic at UCSF; she is well below the median and even her cGPA is below their median.
She is fine, really fine for all of the low and medium tier schools. That includes UCD, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, and USC.
Other schools she should consider, IF she has some solid research hours (publications are helpful but not always needed) are:
Vanderbilt
Pitt
Northwestern
Emory
Dartmouth
NYU
Duke
BU
Mt Sinai (maybe)
BU
pretty much any other private school that takes out of state students.
She is fine, really fine for all of the low and medium tier schools. That includes UCD, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, and USC.
Other schools she should consider, IF she has some solid research hours (publications are helpful but not always needed) are:
Vanderbilt
Pitt
Northwestern
Emory
Dartmouth
NYU
Duke
BU
Mt Sinai (maybe)
BU
pretty much any other private school that takes out of state students.
Thank you for your kind words.
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Is she applying this year? If so she better get busy. Time is a ticking.
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Why are you posting for your daughter? Shes 21 at least at this point, don't you think its time for her to grow up and handle these matters for herself like posting on forums about her chances. People did this on college confidential and I thought the same thing, but at least at that point students are minors.
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Good for her.
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You should purchase a copy of the online MSAR and refer to the sGPA 10th percentile for each school. As long as your daughter is above that 10th percentile, she stands a shot, particularly in combination with her stellar cGPA and MCAT scores. For example, Northwestern's 10th percentile is 3.52 and UCSF's 10th percentile is 3.50, leaving room for someone like your daughter to still have a shot.
Thank you for being so encouraging and helpful. MSAR?
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https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/
The online version is perhaps the most helpful.
Of course, its important to keep in mind that if one aspect of the application is near the 10th percentile mark, there should be other aspects of the application that are well above average. From what you have told us, some med schools may be willing to overlook a lower sGPA from a notorious grade deflationary school considering the rest of her application. It's impossible to know which schools may look at your daughters app more favorably, which is why the common advice here is to apply broadly.
I myself had a cGPA near the 10th percentile at my current school, but I believe it was the rest of my application that helped me stand out despite it.
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With a 3.54 sGPA, she was correct to be concerned: the average for all accepted students in 2014 was 3.63, and that includes URM-specific schools like Howard and state schools that aren't terribly selective, so it's a bit lower than what a truly competitive sGPA would look like. The cGPA was above average, although not really competitive for many elite schools.
Still, it seems like she managed to get in where she wanted. Congrats!
Still, it seems like she managed to get in where she wanted. Congrats!
