Allergy & Immunology..

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Ah, the glass is half empty argument. Look at it the other way, some people are making 600k+. There's always people in academics or part timers making around 100k or so.

No one knows what SLIT will do to the private practice allergist. I think it will increase market share. Then again, maybe primary care docs will start prescribing it. No one can predict anything in medicine. Most allergist are in private practice.

I'm in the military, but I have friends in private practice who are extremely busy. For now PP appears to still be feasible.

Is SLIT something that all the patients currently receiving SCIT can transition to? If that's the case, then wouldn't that take a huge chunk of revenue away from allergists when these patients aren't coming into the office every so often for their shots?

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Is SLIT something that all the patients currently receiving SCIT can transition to? If that's the case, then wouldn't that take a huge chunk of revenue away from allergists when these patients aren't coming into the office every so often for their shots?

Data is mixed with SLIT in polysensitized patients in which majority of patients on SCIT have in the US. Some allergist/ENT docs formulate their own SLIT/STIT and charge patients that way. It's currently not FDA approved like I said and it cost the patients a lot of money since it's out of pocket.

SLIT is available in Europe and people still get SCIT. I think the more forms of immunotherapy available, the better it is for the field.

This is how I see SLIT in the future. Pt with anaphylaxis on SCIT. Offer SLIT. Pts who don't improve on SLIT, offer SCIT. Monosensitize patients, offer SLIT first, if no improvement offer SCIT, and so on.

The "gold standard" for immunotherapy in the US is SCIT (for now). SLIT can be used as another form of disease modifying therapy.

Now if you're worried about falling compensation. I would get out medicine.
 
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Can any current A/I docs comment on the job market as of recent, both academic vs private practice?

I am interested in asthma research and have found that Northwestern, Pitt, and National Jewish seem pretty solid for airway allergy research. Do any other programs stand out or can anyone comment on the programs I listed?
 
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Is allergy/immunology fellowship competitive to get?

Easily top 2 most competitive subspecialties in IM alongside GI. The reason is partly because the positions are open to IM, IM/peds, and peds.
 
Hey Extracts, would you say that ENT "encroachment" into immunotherapy is a big concern for A&I physicians? I was shocked to find out that a lot of the ENT docs at my institution provide SCIT. I was just wondering if this is an institution thing or if it's a growing concern out in the community for allergy folks. Thanks.
 
Hey Extracts, would you say that ENT "encroachment" into immunotherapy is a big concern for A&I physicians? I was shocked to find out that a lot of the ENT docs at my institution provide SCIT. I was just wondering if this is an institution thing or if it's a growing concern out in the community for allergy folks. Thanks.

It's a monetary thing. They are surgeons. I've heard some carriers pay 300-400 bucks for a tonsillectomy which I feel is insane. Also many carriers are not paying (PA Prior Authorization) for surgeries such as turbinate reduction unless there is a clear cut indication. In the golden days of the 80's there were no such thing. But from what I hear from older allergists is that nearly every patient they saw would have have missing tonsils and adenoids. Doing AIT for ENTs is a great way to make up the cost lost to them.

However things are changing.
It's hard enough time to get paid from the commercial carriers even if you are a board certified Allergist. 80% of the time they pay outright. But half of these want clear cut justification. There are more and more restrictions nowadays. The Joint Council of Allergy is a fantastic resource to find out what these are and how to deal with them.
And with the ACA and pay for performance it will make it even more difficult to get reimbursed. But... if you put an asthmatic who has been on inhaled corticosteroids, or a patient who suffers from VKC or just plain allergic conjunctivitis on AIT, you will have no problem getting reimbursed.

Because of these restrictions and carriers not willing to pay providers who are not board certified allergist. Yes you heard right. BCBS in NJ is starting to refuse credentialing to bill for all codes starting with 95***. Pretty much all the allergy codes unless you are board certified. Everyone got the letters. The older guys who are not BC complained and they got grandfathered in. BC is a must, it sucks for those who are not, but it is what it is. My practice is looking for another allergist and it is a requirement. If you are not BC in 2 years, your out.

They must have it even tougher, being another subspecialty. Insurance companies are now looking for any excuse to not pay and this is a great one. Even though they have an otolaryngic allergy society and CMS recognizes them along with allergists to do AIT (its on their site). Anyways, the ENTs in my area have a simple fix. They hire a BC allergist. And they feed him or her all their patients. Everyone is happy. I guess, except the allergists who feel they are a tool. But some don't and they love it. There is one large group and many smaller ones doing this. But again inevitably, once PQRS starts and fee for service is over, they will have to justify every person who is on shots etc.

On the flip side, should we be doing scopes? I do anywhere from 2-3 a day to 2-3 a week. It's super helpful. From everything from VCD (along with spiro showing flattening of inspiratory curve), GERD exacerbating rhinitis and PND. I saw a new patient who had a polypectomy 2 months ago and now they are back with a vengeance. Changed our mgmt and placed her on high dose nasal corticosteroids. We take pictures (for our records, to give patients & I send them along with the patient if they get referred to GI or ENT) and the patients are able to view the entire procedure. It does wonders for compliance. I wonder if any other AI docs can chime in about their experience. Never had an issue getting reimbursed, although a few times the carriers have asked for chart review prior to payment. But ultimately every one has paid.

Also if you visit the otolaryngic allergy society's site, there are courses to do everything from spirometry & skin testing to oral food challenges. Who cares... do the right thing, make your patients well & you'll be good.

But just like Extracts mentioned, if your worried about your dinero flow dropping, I'd apply to Columbia Business school and skidattle out of medicine.
 
Let me add another death knell to the field of allergy. Sublingual immunotherapy (SLIT) has been approved in Europe and soon will be approved in the US. A physician prescribing SLIT will make as much money doing this as prescribing a medication. In other words none. SLIT is given at home and will easily be prescribed by PCP's and other specialists that have been encroaching on the field of allergy (ENT and pulmonary). Translation - less referrals for us. You are making a mistake if you are going into the field of allergy. It is a dying specialty.

Oh my God no... haha. Not true. I worked for a large group for 6 months, and started my own practice and have seen around 2,000 people in the last 2 1/2 years. It's not a dying field. Half the patients I see are skin allergies and its just amazing to see how much better they became. Nearly all the severe eczema patients have been to derm. But we being internists and peds can delve into the underlying problem, and problem solve the inherent underlying problems. I've used wet wraps, treating SA and M Furfur. I do not think many dermatologists know the immunological additive effects super antigens can have on the skin of AD. (well literally 1, but thats 1 out or 200)

These people, especially teens not only become better just from their physical appearance, but in their confidence level and personal demeanor.
The boys get kicked around at gym class & get called names bc of their skin. I had patients who's neighbors had called child protective services thinking they were being abused.
A few boys wouldn't even look me in the eyes when I first met them. Now they are proud and doing great.
The girls walk around like little divas.
I personally couldn't care about the reimbursement (which is great, honestly. more than what I need) but its nothing compared to the personal satisfaction I get knowing I have changed a young boy or girls life. Literally veered it into a more positive successful direction is worth more to me than any money. The absolute look of thanks from their a dad or mom's face make me feel like I did something worthwhile with my life.

And this is just AD, not counting food allergy (you can do OFC's and change a kids life). They might have gone to their peds and had a slight +ve blood test to peanut. You do the skin test, there a little erythema. They've never eaten a peanut in their life.... so what do you do. OFC. Bam, and they are good. Period. Peanut butter, Reeses, no sitting in an isolated area in cafeteria or bus.

Its not just AD or Food Allergies. You can make the same impact with rhinitis and asthma. When I was 5 I was tubed for 3 days at Astoria General for asthma. Terrible asthma, got picked on every day at school for it. I was on symbicort and nasonex for 7 years before starting AIT in my own practice. Now I'm not using jack.

I saw this post and took me down memory lane, and am so happy I walked the path I took.
 
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It's a monetary thing. They are surgeons. I've heard some carriers pay 300-400 bucks for a tonsillectomy which I feel is insane. Also many carriers are not paying (PA Prior Authorization) for surgeries such as turbinate reduction unless there is a clear cut indication. In the golden days of the 80's there were no such thing. But from what I hear from older allergists is that nearly every patient they saw would have have missing tonsils and adenoids. Doing AIT for ENTs is a great way to make up the cost lost to them.

However things are changing.
It's hard enough time to get paid from the commercial carriers even if you are a board certified Allergist. 80% of the time they pay outright. But half of these want clear cut justification. There are more and more restrictions nowadays. The Joint Council of Allergy is a fantastic resource to find out what these are and how to deal with them.
And with the ACA and pay for performance it will make it even more difficult to get reimbursed. But... if you put an asthmatic who has been on inhaled corticosteroids, or a patient who suffers from VKC or just plain allergic conjunctivitis on AIT, you will have no problem getting reimbursed.

Because of these restrictions and carriers not willing to pay providers who are not board certified allergist. Yes you heard right. BCBS in NJ is starting to refuse credentialing to bill for all codes starting with 95***. Pretty much all the allergy codes unless you are board certified. Everyone got the letters. The older guys who are not BC complained and they got grandfathered in. BC is a must, it sucks for those who are not, but it is what it is. My practice is looking for another allergist and it is a requirement. If you are not BC in 2 years, your out.

They must have it even tougher, being another subspecialty. Insurance companies are now looking for any excuse to not pay and this is a great one. Even though they have an otolaryngic allergy society and CMS recognizes them along with allergists to do AIT (its on their site). Anyways, the ENTs in my area have a simple fix. They hire a BC allergist. And they feed him or her all their patients. Everyone is happy. I guess, except the allergists who feel they are a tool. But some don't and they love it. There is one large group and many smaller ones doing this. But again inevitably, once PQRS starts and fee for service is over, they will have to justify every person who is on shots etc.

On the flip side, should we be doing scopes? I do anywhere from 2-3 a day to 2-3 a week. It's super helpful. From everything from VCD (along with spiro showing flattening of inspiratory curve), GERD exacerbating rhinitis and PND. I saw a new patient who had a polypectomy 2 months ago and now they are back with a vengeance. Changed our mgmt and placed her on high dose nasal corticosteroids. We take pictures (for our records, to give patients & I send them along with the patient if they get referred to GI or ENT) and the patients are able to view the entire procedure. It does wonders for compliance. I wonder if any other AI docs can chime in about their experience. Never had an issue getting reimbursed, although a few times the carriers have asked for chart review prior to payment. But ultimately every one has paid.

Also if you visit the otolaryngic allergy society's site, there are courses to do everything from spirometry & skin testing to oral food challenges. Who cares... do the right thing, make your patients well & you'll be good.

But just like Extracts mentioned, if your worried about your dinero flow dropping, I'd apply to Columbia Business school and skidattle out of medicine.
Thanks for the thorough response.

I am not looking to make tremendous amounts of money, but it's nice to know that you'll have a healthy practice that won't die off. So, is it very feasible to start your own practice? It seems like most of the bigger markets are pretty saturated. Did you look around the country when you set out to start your practice? Do you think that most medium sized cities are still pretty open for new practices? Thanks.
 
Hey man, no problem.
Your right bigger markets are saturated, who doesn't wanna live in San Fran, NYC or Chicago.
Its across the board, from Pathology to Rads.

Your other question, starting a new practice. I started my own and in the beginning was sickeningly difficult.
After residency, the pain in the butt it was getting into AI, doing fellowship. I felt like I was giving up more of my life to medicine.
I decided to move closer to family. I'm not married, no kids. Just my dog, so if things went south I would fly back south. Haha. With bad credit but it would recover.
If I had a family of my own, spouse and kids, I would definitely think twice.

And now you have to think of the ACA and the requirements you need to know. Its un f believably tough. Even now ICD-10. Oct 1 2014.
God help you if your a practice with paper charts. You will not get a drop of reimbursement.
You can not use a superbill with ICD-10. I just attended the joint councils webinar. Every code changes based on the "chapter, location, site, resolution"

Then there is PQRS and not only do you have to meet all 20-something criteria for meaningful use, you need to maintain that.
Otherwise kiss CMS goodbye. On their website its in bold letters. Having an EMR does not constitute meeting meaningful use.
And enjoy the audits, its not if. It's when.

Computer engineer, insurance broker, business man, HR specialist.
Is it possible, maybe. Would I do allergy again as a fellowship. In a heartbeat. Start my own practice and lose 3 precious, irretrievable years of my prime. Not so much.

On a positive note, whatever fellow I hire is gonna have it made in the shade.
 
Hey man, no problem.
Your right bigger markets are saturated, who doesn't wanna live in San Fran, NYC or Chicago.
Its across the board, from Pathology to Rads.

Your other question, starting a new practice. I started my own and in the beginning was sickeningly difficult.
After residency, the pain in the butt it was getting into AI, doing fellowship. I felt like I was giving up more of my life to medicine.
I decided to move closer to family. I'm not married, no kids. Just my dog, so if things went south I would fly back south. Haha. With bad credit but it would recover.
If I had a family of my own, spouse and kids, I would definitely think twice.

And now you have to think of the ACA and the requirements you need to know. Its un f believably tough. Even now ICD-10. Oct 1 2014.
God help you if your a practice with paper charts. You will not get a drop of reimbursement.
You can not use a superbill with ICD-10. I just attended the joint councils webinar. Every code changes based on the "chapter, location, site, resolution"

Then there is PQRS and not only do you have to meet all 20-something criteria for meaningful use, you need to maintain that.
Otherwise kiss CMS goodbye. On their website its in bold letters. Having an EMR does not constitute meeting meaningful use.
And enjoy the audits, its not if. It's when.

Computer engineer, insurance broker, business man, HR specialist.
Is it possible, maybe. Would I do allergy again as a fellowship. In a heartbeat. Start my own practice and lose 3 precious, irretrievable years of my prime. Not so much.

On a positive note, whatever fellow I hire is gonna have it made in the shade.
Thanks. This is extremely helpful.

I've heard that the job market is horrible for A/I so even if you wanted to join a practice, is it possible to find one that isn't going to completely fleece you? I mean, thinking about it from your standpoint... why would you hire someone and give him/her equal share to the practice that you've built from the ground up? You can easily offer someone 170k to do your work while you generate 2-3x that as far as revenues.

Also, how hard was it to get a large patient load to even build a practice? Do you advertise? If so, how?
 
Anyone care to speak about buy ins for PP allergy? Are they common? Is it common to pay based on revenue that can be generated by AT and SCIT/SLIT?
 
Hey all,
I am a D.O., 3rd year internal medicine resident. Looking to apply to A/I, although late. I may take a year to work as a hospitalist before applying seriously for A/I, but my concern is my credentials. Does anyone know of specific programs that accept D.O.s? There are only 2 osteopathic programs in the country - Ohio and Florida. With the merging accreditation this will likely not be an issue in the future, but unfortunately I am one of the last classes to not benefit from this on the osteopathic side. Any info would be appreciated...
 
For those who have matched to allergy and immunology--what kind of research did you do, basic, clinical, translational? Was it only during research months, or ongoing (weekends, evenings during outpatient rotations)? How early in residency were you able to start research, and was it enough time? Is it more important to schedule a research month or an elective month early on in residency? How many publications and abstracts should one aim for by the time of application?

Thanks in advance!
 
Would recommend to focus on doing your best and asking your own program directors and advisors on what might be best for you specific situation including the program you are at and goals for the future. In general, there is a huge shortage of young A/I academicians. Demonstrating a genuine passion for academics or a combination or private practice and academics might be important. Would also focus on highlighting how A/I is your true passion and not a choice based on not good reasons e.g lifestyle choices alone etc. Most likely the earlier and the more you get involved the better, although prior to taking an elective in A/I it might help if you know the system very well such as EMR, and so Spring of an intern year might be perfect. Hope this is helpful :)
 
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!

Just started my third year and I'm wondering about the relative benefits of approaching allergy from IM vs peds vs med-peds before I have to really decide which I want to do.

I'd also be interested to hear any other posters' perspectives on why they chose A/I and if they would choose it again.
 
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