Am I being realistic?

[psyguy83]

Please bare with me as I have just entered my 1/3 life crisis (I'm 31). My background is I'm set to graduate from a well ranked CACREP Master's program in Counselor Education with a 4.0 GPA, having completed a 100hr practicum in a school setting and a 600hr internship in a community mental health setting. I also taught English overseas, have done volunteer work as a mentor, four years in the military, and have zero research experience. My undergrad GPA in Psychology was 3.3.

Long story short due to a myriad of reasons I won't bore you with I've decided to pursue a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology to work primarily in psychotherapy. I've been looking at a few APA accredited programs and it looks like best case scenario (University of Miami) I'd be lucky to transfer around 20 of the credits I have. Is this assessment about right or am I basically looking at starting from scratch again?

Also, assuming my GRE scores are great and I work as a volunteer research assistant for 6 months after I graduate am I a competitive doctoral candidate? I'm hoping my high graduate GPA and experience might compensate for the lack of research experience I have.

Thanks for taking the time to read this,

Chris

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[abiturient]

First, you should take my advice for what it is, since I have a limited experience and knowledge. I have applied to 14 clinical PhD programs and interviewed at 6. Have been accepted to one. I have BA in psychology (although I am of similar age as you are) and I contemplated getting a masters first if I didn't get into PhD this year. So I asked the same question you are quite a bit. This question has also been asked during each interview since many of the applicants had masters degrees (one had masters in counseling specifically). Overall, it seems that you are going to be in the same place as someone with bachelor's degree with some variability. Some programs will accept more credits than others, but all do it on a case by case basis. Meaning, they will require you to submit the syllabus to a professor who is teaching a similar class, and he/she will decide if it counts. Most programs won't take more than a certain number of credits, and overall you can shave off a year in absolute best case scenario. But again, it depends on the program, and it is something you should check on with each one. If your PhD program requires a Masters thesis and you don't have one, that would be another reason why you would have to start where everyone else is. If you could transfer a thesis, it would help you complete the program faster. However, the only time I saw someone complete the PhD in 4 years instead of 5 after getting a masters is when the masters was earned at the same school where you are doing your PhD.
Now, keep in mind, I interviewed for clinical, not counseling, but from my research, it seems they are similar in this regard.
As far as your research experience, you definitely want to get as much as possible. If you want to get into a funded, scientist-practitioner type program, research experience is no. 1 criteria. Your other life experience is great as well, but it won't be a deciding factor. GRE and letters of recommendation are very important too. You will likely be competing against people with couple years of research experience, a few conference presentations and may be even some publications. So 6 months may be not enough, although not necessarily. This process is extremely arbitrary and often influenced by factors beyond what you can anticipate (i.e. "fit" with the mentor, etc). You can have the best credentials and still not get into a particular program for some unknown reasons. I ended up being accepted to a program that was the weakest match with my research interests, but rejected from the one that seemed like the perfect match. One advice I have is apply to as many programs as you can afford and have time for, as it will increase your chances. I doubted whether to apply for the one I got accepted at (likely the only one), but I am glad I did.
Fee free to message me if you have other questions. Best of luck!

 

[CheetahGirl]

My background is I'm set to graduate from a well ranked CACREP Master's program in Counselor Education with a 4.0 GPA, having completed a 100hr practicum in a school setting and a 600hr internship in a community mental health setting. I also taught English overseas, have done volunteer work as a mentor, four years in the military, and have zero research experience. My undergrad GPA in Psychology was 3.3.

This may hold you back from being competitive for a PhD program but mainly because they need some clear indication of your ability to synthesize research (from nuts to bolts; conceptualization to full-blown product, which is ‎a peer-reviewed manuscript, presentation...hell, even a few posters at an annual conference would show this) prior to admission to graduate school. Ideally, programs want to train you to be a clinician and get you out of their program in the minimal amount of time (rather than teaching you how to do research prior to a doctoral program). They want that firm foundation set in place and they will happily build upon it.

However, you have a lot going for you, as far as life experience, masters education, clinical experience, and consistent academic ability.

IMO, overall you are being realistic, but you need to increase your likelihood for acceptance by having your 6-month research experience being the most productive possible and maybe extending it to 1 or 2 years, if you can - but this isn't always necessary. However, actual solid research development usually takes >6 months. Ask your volunteer research supervisor if you can be (heavily) involved in research dissemination (collecting data, running subjects, examining data results, writing up results as 2nd, 3rd, 4th author, presenting data at conferences) and also ask if you can come up with unique ideas to compliment his/her original research with unique ideas of your own (for the coveted first-authorship position).
‎
It can all happen, and you can be on the 'program interview'‎ thread soon enough (woot woot).

Good luck!‎


‎

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Are you starting from scratch? Yes and no.

You have life experience, clinical experience, and a successful track record in graduate school. These are all advantages. But you may be starting over in the following sense:

1. Will your masters suffice in comparison to the program's requirements? Meaning, did you have a masters thesis that is similar in methodological rigor to what is required for a doctorate?.
2. You'll have to complete a dissertation. For any decent program, this will be an empirical work that will require time to properly think up, complete, analyze, write up, and defend.
3. Simultaneously, want to accrue a requisite amount of clinical hours. While your previous hours are not a total waste, for internship you will want to accrue doctoral hours. Additionally, most programs have a minimum threshold for hours you must accrue while enrolled.
4. After all that. most doctoral programs have certain required classes (as a part of accreditation) . If you have classes that are equivalent then you can be excused from those. Otherwise, the other benchmarks of doctoral training still require numerous years to accomplish.

 

[PsyOpt]

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[CheetahGirl]

I earned my first master's prior to entering a PhD program. (I have two now thanks to my doctoral program.) Because it was a non-terminal masters (in general psych, which I consider a 'resume builder' because I could not be licensed to practice independently after completing that particular degree), I did not accrue any clinical hours and only ended up transferring 6 credits of it into my doctoral program. Was it worth it? eh, well...it got me where I am so, yes...it was worth it to me. Would I advise someone else to go this route? Not unless they have cash & time to spare (which I did at the time but do not, now) and dedication to the long haul and journey it has become (which I still have) ...and I'm not even on post-doc yet.

Hope for the best, but expect the worse (i.e., 6 credit transfer).

 

[psyguy83]

Wow, I appreciate all of you taking the time to write such informative posts It's been an emotional roller coaster the last week and this information has helped alleviate a lot of my anxiety so thank you.

I've learned from these posts that research will become my new priority and am grateful to have posted this when I did, as I'll now be able to get over a year's worth by the time apply. I've also accepted that while it would be nice to transfer as many credits as possible, it's more important to get into a good program that's training me to do something I am truly passionate about.

I am now going to reframe my time working on this masters as a valuable stepping stone to help me become more competitive for a PhD by having some research under my belt, proven academic track-record for grad school (which hopefully overshadows my undergrad GPA), and some clinical experience.

Thank you

 

[PsychBiker]

I will admit my ignorance and laziness in figuring this out: Why a PhD in Counseling vs a PhD in Clinical Psych?

 

[psyguy83]

Naivety mostly, I thought I'd be able to transfer more credits from my masters and wasn't sure of my research interests.

After spending all weekend reading "Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology", narrowing my research interests to anxiety or eating disorders/possibly wanting to work in VA hospital, I'm now looking at pursuing a Ph.D in Clinical Psych instead.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I will admit my ignorance and laziness in figuring this out: Why a PhD in Counseling vs a PhD in Clinical Psych?

I was wondering the same, psyguy83. But good to hear you are expanding your options to include PhD in clinic psych...especially if you are targeting VAs. I am on internship at a VA now and IMO, with your 4-years in the military, you will be well-received by your future Veteran clients and a solid role model for many who contemplate 'what's next?' post-military service. With all the stats you posted above, you will increase your probability of acceptance if you include clinical psych b/c the sheer number of programs.

 

[bostongal109]

Naivety mostly, I thought I'd be able to transfer more credits from my masters and wasn't sure of my research interests.

After spending all weekend reading "Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology", narrowing my research interests to anxiety or eating disorders/possibly wanting to work in VA hospital, I'm now looking at pursuing a Ph.D in Clinical Psych instead.

You can transfer classes that are a very solid match to what is offered, however, you need to be enrolled full time so although you may not have to take, say Psychological Theory, you would have to take a different course to be enrolled full time. And you can't just shave a year off because you need hours to be competitive for internship, and if you have a year less than others you may not get matched. So basically- yes your classes will transfer- but no that won't help in any way and it won't cut down on your time there. Hope that helps!

 

[soccercat]

My only advice for you is that regardless of the route you take, a lot of getting into the smaller more academic based programs is about networking and reaching out to faculty ahead of time. Some professors do not take on students certain years because of of a variety of reasons and others will vouch for you during the application process if they feel you will make a great addition to their lab. It is something that is important for all students who are considering applying, especially if you do not have a strong research background.

 

[PsychScience]

Please bare with me as I have just entered my 1/3 life crisis (I'm 31). My background is I'm set to graduate from a well ranked CACREP Master's program in Counselor Education with a 4.0 GPA, having completed a 100hr practicum in a school setting and a 600hr internship in a community mental health setting. I also taught English overseas, have done volunteer work as a mentor, four years in the military, and have zero research experience. My undergrad GPA in Psychology was 3.3.

Long story short due to a myriad of reasons I won't bore you with I've decided to pursue a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology to work primarily in psychotherapy. I've been looking at a few APA accredited programs and it looks like best case scenario (University of Miami) I'd be lucky to transfer around 20 of the credits I have. Is this assessment about right or am I basically looking at starting from scratch again?

Also, assuming my GRE scores are great and I work as a volunteer research assistant for 6 months after I graduate am I a competitive doctoral candidate? I'm hoping my high graduate GPA and experience might compensate for the lack of research experience I have.

Thanks for taking the time to read this,

Chris

I would be surprised if you were able to transfer all 20 credits. When accepted, most programs that are training you to be a clinical or a counseling psychologist are aiming to train you in their particular model of being a clinician. So although you may be able to transfer some of the more elective/broad&general courses like statistics or social psych, they probably won’t accept transfer credits for the core clinical courses (assessment or psychotherapy). If you did an empirically based thesis in your previous master’s program, and it is acceptable rigor for the PhD. program, this will probably save you more time than the handful of credits you will be able to transfer.

 

[psyguy83]

My only advice for you is that regardless of the route you take, a lot of getting into the smaller more academic based programs is about networking and reaching out to faculty ahead of time. Some professors do not take on students certain years because of of a variety of reasons and others will vouch for you during the application process if they feel you will make a great addition to their lab. It is something that is important for all students who are considering applying, especially if you do not have a strong research background.

Hey I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my thread. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, by "reaching out" do you mean emailing and expressing my interest to work with certain faculty at the various schools I'll be applying to, based off similar research interests and after I familiarize myself with some of their work? If so about how far out would you recommend doing this?

I have found and read up on a few faculty (researching anxiety) at a nearby respected/accredited university clinical psych program and will be reaching out next week to see if I can volunteer as a research assistant for one of them. My plan is to dress well, bring my CV, and show up at their office hours to express my interest in their research and working with them. Hopefully they appreciate the direct approach.

Thanks and wish me luck

 

[soccercat]

Hey I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my thread. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, by "reaching out" do you mean emailing and expressing my interest to work with certain faculty at the various schools I'll be applying to, based off similar research interests and after I familiarize myself with some of their work? If so about how far out would you recommend doing this?

I have found and read up on a few faculty (researching anxiety) at a nearby respected/accredited university clinical psych program and will be reaching out next week to see if I can volunteer as a research assistant for one of them. My plan is to dress well, bring my CV, and show up at their office hours to express my interest in their research and working with them. Hopefully they appreciate the direct approach.

Thanks and wish me luck

Emailing them ahead of time is what I meant. I found it really helpful in my process. I also read over lab websites and took a look at recent publications to see the specific projects they are working on. I would probably email first before showing up on their door and request a meeting. Sometimes graduate faculty can have very limited time between students taking their classes and their actual advisees. You'll get their undivided attention that way and you may even get to attend a lab meeting.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Hey I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my thread. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, by "reaching out" do you mean emailing and expressing my interest to work with certain faculty at the various schools I'll be applying to, based off similar research interests and after I familiarize myself with some of their work? If so about how far out would you recommend doing this?

I have found and read up on a few faculty (researching anxiety) at a nearby respected/accredited university clinical psych program and will be reaching out next week to see if I can volunteer as a research assistant for one of them. My plan is to dress well, bring my CV, and show up at their office hours to express my interest in their research and working with them. Hopefully they appreciate the direct approach.

Thanks and wish me luck

Email them to set up a meeting. Please don't show up at office hours unless they invite you. Those are for the students they're teaching/advising.

 

[psyguy83]

Ok thanks for the info, I'll email them first.

 

[psyguy83]

**Update**

I just wanted to say thank you for this forum. I posted on here two years ago asking how to get into a clinical psych program and you all gave me some great advice.

Well I took the advice, worked my butt off, and and just got accepted into a fully funded, APA accredited clinical psych PhD program.

Cheers and thanks again!

 

[WisNeuro]

Kudos, always good to hear a success story. Much better than hearing the stories of people going to a diploma mill and taking on massive debt Keep us updated in the years to come.

 

[singasongofjoy]

That's fantastic!! Congrats!!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks for the update.

Congrats!

 

[rerope]

Congrats!! Is it too nosey to want to know where you're heading?

 

[Justanothergrad]

Congrats! Best of luck in the future.

Its nice to see when folks come back and tell how it has worked out. Its a message applicants can benefit from seeing and hearing.