Am I shooting myself in the foot?

[fayevalentine]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mrdocta]

Not ridiculous at all. Everyone has their own situation. It is much easier for someone to leave the state for a different one to attend dental school when they are not really leaving anything behind; such as a home, personal family, spouse's job, etc.

The odds of getting an acceptance is obviously lower when applying to two schools compared to someone who applies to 20, but there's nothing ridiculous about it. Just kill the DAT and you should be good to go for your in-state school! Good luck!

 

[B0wMNj]

Your gpa isnt bad, but the thing is you took classes at a community college and have withdrawals on your transcript, which is kind of frowned upon. Use your motivation to live with your family when your studying for the DAT and kill it. If the rest of your app is as solid as you say it is, I dont think you should have a problem. What state do you live in because some state schools might be somewhat competitive? In any case doing really well on the dat should put you in a great position.

 

[Coloradoboulder]

I would also agree that your GPA isn't bad. Some schools do look down on community college classes to an extent. In terms of the withdrawals, they are looked down upon but how much I would call the two schools. Are you shooting yourself in the foot? Maybe? Depends on the state I would assume. Two schools is rather RISKY. Most people apply to several schools to increase your chances but you do have a different scenario. Do very well on the DAT to increase your chances of staying in state and to help the other gaps of your application. I hope the best for you and your family.

 

[fayevalentine]

Thank you everyone for your responses and the kind words. You all have encouraged me! I am currently studying hard for the DAT so I hope you are correct and if I ace it, I will be able to stay in state.

 

[Dentase]

If you want to do something and put your mind to it, you will do it!

 

[hugomaaf]

Thank you everyone for your responses and the kind words. You all have encouraged me! I am currently studying hard for the DAT so I hope you are correct and if I ace it, I will be able to stay in state.

Just to make u feel a little better, I only applied to 1 school this cycle (my state school) for similar reason.

Since I am only applying to one school, I can focus ALL my resources into this school. Attended their summer events, volunteer in their fundraising, even be the patients for the current student. Basically I had show my face around right when the cycle started, the faculty who interviewed me was the same person I talked to in the summer events and he remembers me. It is risky but have its own advantages.

1st round interview offered, 1 Dec acceptance.

3.4 sGPA and oGPA, 21 DAT.

Good luck.

 

[lnngu]

Yes, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Do you still have a chance? I suppose there is always a chance, as hugoomaf demonstrated. How lucky do you feel? How much do you really want this?
Also consider this: dental school will generate strains/require sacrifices from your family that go way beyond possibly having to move away.

Good luck to you.

c/o 2014

 

[ToothbrushBuddy]

Do not make your spouse move and leave their business unless you want to put up with a lifetime of their resentment and eventually probably get divorced. I
As someone who has been married for six years, I think you are smart to stick to your state schools and should stick to your plan.

 

[fayevalentine]

Just to make u feel a little better, I only applied to 1 school this cycle (my state school) for similar reason.

Since I am only applying to one school, I can focus ALL my resources into this school. Attended their summer events, volunteer in their fundraising, even be the patients for the current student. Basically I had show my face around right when the cycle started, the faculty who interviewed me was the same person I talked to in the summer events and he remembers me. It is risky but have its own advantages.

1st round interview offered, 1 Dec acceptance.

3.4 sGPA and oGPA, 21 DAT.

Good luck.

Thank you! This really inspired me and you gave some great advice. Congratulations on your acceptance and best of luck!

 

[fayevalentine]

Yes, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Do you still have a chance? I suppose there is always a chance, as hugoomaf demonstrated. How lucky do you feel? How much do you really want this?
Also consider this: dental school will generate strains/require sacrifices from your family that go way beyond possibly having to move away.

Good luck to you.

c/o 2014

Thank you. I don't believe in luck, but I do believe that hard work pays off. To answer your questions "how much do you really want this?" my answer would be A LOT, but I will never but a career above my loved ones. I know I have what it takes to be a dentist, and I believe I can prove myself to my in-state schools, even if it takes a few years. I am hoping that if I continue to work in a dentistry-related field, further my education with a Master's Degree, etc., one or both schools will recognize my passion and my chances will improve in-state.

Thank you for pointing out the strains dental school will place on my family; I do realize this and trust me, it is something I worry about. Do you have experience with this, and if so, can you offer any insight?

I appreciate your response.

 

[fayevalentine]

Do not make your spouse move and leave their business unless you want to put up with a lifetime of their resentment and eventually probably get divorced. I
As someone who has been married for six years, I think you are smart to stick to your state schools and should stick to your plan.

Thank you very much. Your answer means a lot considering you are married. I feel like people who have not been married or at least in long-term serious relationships don't really understand my plight. I am passionate about dentistry, but I think in the scheme of life, a career is never worth risking someone you love.

 

[Bifenthrin]

On the other hand, if the person you love isn't willing to make sacrifices to help you realize your dreams and to help you get where you want to be career-wise, are they really worth being with?

I wound up calling off my engagement a month into dental school, because I realized the guy was completely unsupportive of me. I was commuting and it was difficult for me, so I asked him if we could move in together close to school. He absolutely refused to get an apartment in the city with me, and told me that after the wedding he expected me to move to where he lived at that time (a two hour commute each way, and a longer commute than where I was living at the time).

I chose my career over my relationship, and I don't regret it one bit, because in my case, the relationship would have held me back from achieving what I want to achieve.

 

[fayevalentine]

On the other hand, if the person you love isn't willing to make sacrifices to help you realize your dreams and to help you get where you want to be career-wise, are they really worth being with?

I wound up calling off my engagement a month into dental school, because I realized the guy was completely unsupportive of me. I was commuting and it was difficult for me, so I asked him if we could move in together close to school. He absolutely refused to get an apartment in the city with me, and told me that after the wedding he expected me to move to where he lived at that time (a two hour commute each way, and a longer commute than where I was living at the time).

I chose my career over my relationship, and I don't regret it one bit, because in my case, the relationship would have held me back from achieving what I want to achieve.

I think each case if different. However, in my case it isn't that my SO isn't willing to make sacrifices. It's that I can only ask so much from him. He currently supports the two of us almost 100%, and will be completely supporting us if I make it into DS. He's happy to do so so that I may follow my dreams. However, he's currently living his dream and running a business. Is it right for me to ask him to drop his entire life and the achievements he has made for me? No. A relationship is all about compromise. It shouldn't be him making all of the sacrifices and me making none.

I am happy to hear that in your case, you are happy with your choices. It sounds like it was best for you. Congratulations in your success . I just don't believe your path would be the right one for me personally.

 

[mordred]

If you have the money, it might make sense to apply to a few more schools as well. At a minimum, you may get a couple of interviews under your belt before your "do or die" state school interviews. It also keeps your options open in the event your personal circumstances change in the next year. No one says you have to go if they offer a spot to you. If you get two rejections out of only two applications, it could damage your self confidence, and desire to go around the following year. If, on the other hand, you are accepted to just one out of state school only, it might give you the boost of confidence you need to try again for your in state schools. Don't underestimate how emotionally punishing this process can be on you.

Plan for success at your in-state schools the first time around, but leave your options open. No need to close other doors just yet (IMO).

 

[fayevalentine]

If you have the money, it might make sense to apply to a few more schools as well. At a minimum, you may get a couple of interviews under your belt before your "do or die" state school interviews. It also keeps your options open in the event your personal circumstances change in the next year. No one says you have to go if they offer a spot to you. If you get two rejections out of only two applications, it could damage your self confidence, and desire to go around the following year. If, on the other hand, you are accepted to just one out of state school only, it might give you the boost of confidence you need to try again for your in state schools. Don't underestimate how emotionally punishing this process can be on you.

Plan for success at your in-state schools the first time around, but leave your options open. No need to close other doors just yet (IMO).

I have to say, that is some seriously great advice. You're right; circumstances can always change. And I probably would feel pretty awful with only two rejections, and no WL or anything better . Would it be damaging though, if I got into a school out of state that I decided not to attend, and applied to my in-state schools again the following year? Would that make me look bad in the eyes of the adcoms? I feel almost as though they may (wrongly) interpret that as me not being serious about wanting to be a dentist.

 

[Roosevelt32]

To answer your question: No.

 

[mordred]

I have to say, that is some seriously great advice. You're right; circumstances can always change. And I probably would feel pretty awful with only two rejections, and no WL or anything better . Would it be damaging though, if I got into a school out of state that I decided not to attend, and applied to my in-state schools again the following year? Would that make me look bad in the eyes of the adcoms? I feel almost as though they may (wrongly) interpret that as me not being serious about wanting to be a dentist.

I don't think so. Think about it. Right now your plan is to apply to two schools, and if neither extend an offer, you plan to apply to only the same two schools the following cycle. I'm suggesting you apply to at least half a dozen schools this cycle. If you are accepted to one of the out of state schools, and decline, I think you have a much more powerful story for the in state adcoms next year. "Yeah, I was accepted to xyz dental school last cycle. It's a great program, but when it came to decision time, I just couldn't envision myself going anywhere but here or (the other in state school). So you guys are the only two schools I applied to this cycle."

If this dentistry thing does not work out, I'm thinking about a career in advertising (sinister laugh).

 

[H4LfAd1ME]

I don't think so. Think about it. Right now your plan is to apply to two schools, and if neither extend an offer, you plan to apply to only the same two schools the following cycle. I'm suggesting you apply to at least half a dozen schools this cycle. If you are accepted to one of the out of state schools, and decline, I think you have a much more powerful story for the in state adcoms next year. "Yeah, I was accepted to xyz dental school last cycle. It's a great program, but when it came to decision time, I just couldn't envision myself going anywhere but here or (the other in state school). So you guys are the only two schools I applied to this cycle."

If this dentistry thing does not work out, I'm thinking about a career in advertising (sinister laugh).

Really? Maybe it's just me, but I have to kindly disagree. If I were an adcom, I would question the applicant's intentions and commitment if he/she was accepted to dental school before but did not attend (unless extenuating circumstances occurred during that time). Why bother applying to those schools if you're absolutely sure you won't attend there? Essentially you wasted a lot of resources (your own and the school you chose not to attend) and created a huge dilemma for the state school's adcoms when they look at your application the next cycle. When I was filling out a lot of secondaries, a lot of the schools asked if I were ever accepted to dental school before, and I viewed this as them questioning my commitment to dentistry. (ie. If you really want to become a dentist, why didn't you go to the school you got accepted at last year?) To me, it comes off as being wishy washy. They may start questioning if you will do the same thing to them and end up deciding not to go to their school that year! What state are you in? My advice is to absolutely kill the DAT, get amazing letters of rec, and just apply to the two schools since you say you definitely won't go to any out of state schools.

 

[mordred]

Really? Maybe it's just me, but I have to kindly disagree. If I were an adcom, I would question the applicant's intentions and commitment if he/she was accepted to dental school before but did not attend (unless extenuating circumstances occurred during that time). Why bother applying to those schools if you're absolutely sure you won't attend there? Essentially you wasted a lot of resources (your own and the school you chose not to attend) and created a huge dilemma for the state school's adcoms when they look at your application the next cycle. When I was filling out a lot of secondaries, a lot of the schools asked if I were ever accepted to dental school before, and I viewed this as them questioning my commitment to dentistry. (ie. If you really want to become a dentist, why didn't you go to the school you got accepted at last year?) To me, it comes off as being wishy washy. They may start questioning if you will do the same thing to them and end up deciding not to go to their school that year! What state are you in? My advice is to absolutely kill the DAT, get amazing letters of rec, and just apply to the two schools since you say you definitely won't go to any out of state schools.

Fair points to be sure, and I had the same questions on my secondary aps as well. There are no obvious answers, and reasonable minds can easily come to different conclusions.

After going through the process this cycle, I have a much better sense of the schools I applied to than I did a year ago when I was putting a list together. At that time, all I really knew were the marketing points on their web sites, their entries in the ADEA Guide, and comments here on SDN, some more accurate than others. A year later, having been inside the schools where I interviewed, and having visited those cities, I have a more informed perspective. In retrospect, it's expecting a lot of a candidate to get their list exactly right before they enter their first ap cycle sausage grinder, and actually visit schools, cities, and current students. The interview process isn't just about getting in, it's also about confirming one's own judgement on an extremely expensive and life altering decision (for me anyway). I hope most adcoms would respect a candidate's change of opinion once they have a fuller context in which to make the decision. I was (perhaps too flippantly) just suggesting that OP could use that greater insight on the back side of a cycle to their advantage in the next cycle if it came to that. Gotta love the variety of opinions you get here. I'm not sure it makes decisions easier though.

 

[doc toothache]

Making demands for admission comes with a price of admission you have to be willing to pay- time, stats, degrees.

 

[lnngu]

Making demands for admission comes with a price of admission you have to be willing to pay- time, stats, degrees.

This.

Thank you. I don't believe in luck, but I do believe that hard work pays off. To answer your questions "how much do you really want this?" my answer would be A LOT, but I will never but a career above my loved ones. I know I have what it takes to be a dentist, and I believe I can prove myself to my in-state schools, even if it takes a few years. I am hoping that if I continue to work in a dentistry-related field, further my education with a Master's Degree, etc., one or both schools will recognize my passion and my chances will improve in-state.
Thank you for pointing out the strains dental school will place on my family; I do realize this and trust me, it is something I worry about. Do you have experience with this, and if so, can you offer any insight?
I appreciate your response.

/soapbox With all due respect, you don't know that. How could you, since you've never done it? I hear this from some of my assistants, occasionally, and I thank God I wear a mask when I do. I also remember saying the exact same thing as a pre-dent, and it makes my skin crawl to think I was ever this presumptuous. Word of advice: do not write that in your application, or say it during the interview. /soapbox

I think you may be underestimating how difficult the process is: just being considered for admission; the number of people you have to beat out for that spot; how taxing dental school can be. You're trying to beat out competitors in a race, with an arm tied behind your back: you better be really good. I'm sure you're also aware that every year you spend trying to get into dental school instead of actually going through dental school is one less year you'll be producing as a dentist... that cost can go up in a hurry. That said, you've made your decision, and it's a courageous one.

Lastly, dental school is hard. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I love what I do now, but honestly, I'm not sure if you could pay me enough to go through the first year again. It entails long hours, high stress, constant exhaustion and your SO will never be able to relate to, or understand what you're going through. Most casual relationships don't survive it. Luckily for me, like you, I was married. Even so, the ride wasn't without bumps.

I have to say, that is some seriously great advice. You're right; circumstances can always change. And I probably would feel pretty awful with only two rejections, and no WL or anything better . Would it be damaging though, if I got into a school out of state that I decided not to attend, and applied to my in-state schools again the following year? Would that make me look bad in the eyes of the adcoms? I feel almost as though they may (wrongly) interpret that as me not being serious about wanting to be a dentist.

Don't do that. Refusing a spot raises a red flag.

 

[fayevalentine]

/soapbox With all due respect, you don't know that. How could you, since you've never done it? I hear this from some of my assistants, occasionally, and I thank God I wear a mask when I do. I also remember saying the exact same thing as a pre-dent, and it makes my skin crawl to think I was ever this presumptuous. Word of advice: do not write that in your application, or say it during the interview. /soapbox

Fair enough. Let me change my phrasing then: I believe that I posses enough intelligence, motivation, and fine motor skills to make it possible for me to be successful as a student in dental school. I believe that these qualities, along with my business experience, artistic abilities, and deep compassion for others could allow for me to become a good dentist in the future. You're right that I can't know those things for a fact, of course, but I do wholeheartedly believe them.

I think you may be underestimating how difficult the process is: just being considered for admission; the number of people you have to beat out for that spot; how taxing dental school can be. You're trying to beat out competitors in a race, with an arm tied behind your back: you better be really good. I'm sure you're also aware that every year you spend trying to get into dental school instead of actually going through dental school is one less year you'll be producing as a dentist... that cost can go up in a hurry. That said, you've made your decision, and it's a courageous one.

I haven't experienced the process yet, but I've learned enough about it to realize how competitive it is. I am fully prepared to do whatever possible, for however many years it takes, to gain acceptance into my state schools. As far as production goes... to be perfectly honest, I could care less about money. I say that not as a spoiled child who has had everything handed to them, but as an adult who has never been without a job since before I could even drive a car. As long as I have a roof over my head and food on the table, that's enough for me. If it takes a few extra years to get it, but I get to do it at home, I'm content knowing I will be paying off loans later in life and not earning as early as I could be.

Lastly, dental school is hard. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I love what I do now, but honestly, I'm not sure if you could pay me enough to go through the first year again. It entails long hours, high stress, constant exhaustion and your SO will never be able to relate to, or understand what you're going through. Most casual relationships don't survive it. Luckily for me, like you, I was married. Even so, the ride wasn't without bumps.

I'm glad you love your job. People like you are an inspiration for the rest of us. As far as the bumps, I ask again - do you have any advice as far as this goes? Thank you for your post. I appreciate your perspective as somebody who has been through it already.

 

[fayevalentine]

Making demands for admission comes with a price of admission you have to be willing to pay- time, stats, degrees.

Bring it on .

 

[fayevalentine]

Fair points to be sure, and I had the same questions on my secondary aps as well. There are no obvious answers, and reasonable minds can easily come to different conclusions.

After going through the process this cycle, I have a much better sense of the schools I applied to than I did a year ago when I was putting a list together. At that time, all I really knew were the marketing points on their web sites, their entries in the ADEA Guide, and comments here on SDN, some more accurate than others. A year later, having been inside the schools where I interviewed, and having visited those cities, I have a more informed perspective. In retrospect, it's expecting a lot of a candidate to get their list exactly right before they enter their first ap cycle sausage grinder, and actually visit schools, cities, and current students. The interview process isn't just about getting in, it's also about confirming one's own judgement on an extremely expensive and life altering decision (for me anyway). I hope most adcoms would respect a candidate's change of opinion once they have a fuller context in which to make the decision. I was (perhaps too flippantly) just suggesting that OP could use that greater insight on the back side of a cycle to their advantage in the next cycle if it came to that. Gotta love the variety of opinions you get here. I'm not sure it makes decisions easier though.

Haha, I do appreciate each poster's perspective. You all have given me much to consider.

 

[doc toothache]

Bring it on .

Save the bravado until you have taken the DAT. Without the scores, this discussion is moot.

 

[lnngu]

As far as production goes... to be perfectly honest, I could care less about money. I say that not as a spoiled child who has had everything handed to them, but as an adult who has never been without a job since before I could even drive a car. As long as I have a roof over my head and food on the table, that's enough for me. If it takes a few extra years to get it, but I get to do it at home, I'm content knowing I will be paying off loans later in life and not earning as early as I could be.

I'm glad you love your job. People like you are an inspiration for the rest of us. As far as the bumps, I ask again - do you have any advice as far as this goes? Thank you for your post. I appreciate your perspective as somebody who has been through it already.

This is an admirable sentiment, but a naive one. Cards on the table. I am a public health dentist who was fortunate enough to secure a full scholarship, but even I have to admit that $400k+ in student loans is crushing/life changing debt. It only seems like monopoly money up until the time you have to start making those $3-5k monthly payments. I am not, nor have I ever been motivated by money, but as a non-trad, and now a parent, I can also assure you that at some point, you will start counting the number of productive years you have left. Your priorities will change.

Lastly, there isn't much to say about school that you haven't heard before. There were extended periods of time when I spent 15h+ at school. I would leave early and come home late, and when home, would be too tired/stressed to be approachable. I'd have a quick meal, then try to study before falling asleep. Then rinse/repeat for months a a time. My wife joked that she felt married, but without a husband... except that it wasn't really a joke. How you deal with that is up to you, but dental school is every bit as hard on the family as it is on the student.

 

[bc1002]

I am married and only applied my state school this cycle because my husband has a great job here. So I totally understand your situation. I would say what you are proposing is totally doable if you make yourself a very competitive applicant. Good luck!

 

[Coloradoboulder]

I am married and only applied my state school this cycle because my husband has a great job here. So I totally understand your situation. I would say what you are proposing is totally doable if you make yourself a very competitive applicant. Good luck!

My God...you killed the DAT. OP I would suggest to aim for scores like bc1002.

 

[fayevalentine]

Seriously bc1002 you did amazing on the DAT! Congratulations and thank you for the support!

 

[jmcunnin]

I really can't offer any specific advice because I am not sure what I would do that in that situation. That's a tough one. I'm a non traditional as well, but I am not married so that obviously makes it easier. I do however own a home, that I am currently trying to sell. I gave up a great career to go back to school full time to take prereqs, and having to decide to sell the home was tough in itself. So I can definitely somewhat understand where you are coming from with regards to having to make sacrifices, and I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

[fayevalentine]

I really can't offer any specific advice because I am not sure what I would do that in that situation. That's a tough one. I'm a non traditional as well, but I am not married so that obviously makes it easier. I do however own a home, that I am currently trying to sell. I gave up a great career to go back to school full time to take prereqs, and having to decide to sell the home was tough in itself. So I can definitely somewhat understand where you are coming from with regards to having to make sacrifices, and I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

Thank you for understanding and for your kind words. It is always nice feeling like you're not completely alone in a situation. Good for you following your dreams too! Best of luck to you as well!