Am I too good for Physical Therapy? (srs)

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[ptstudenttobe]

in all honesty, your post definitely sounds like a douchebag comment. you're stereotyping PT students and those applying as brainless students who are far less superior than you. (just the initial impression). Now i'm sure there are several other ways to have written your post without having done it as how you did.

Now as a PT student, I can say for myself, my fellow classmates, as well as most of the people on this forum that we are intellegent. While not not all of us have the 4.0, what I can say personally is that grades isn't the only thing that makes a great physical therapist or healthcare professional. I believe that physical therapists are one of the most well rounded individuals as they have both, interpersonal skills to converse others, as well as the intellect to actually treat and work with patients of varying injuries. It definitely seems as if you put yourself on top of a pedestal and you need to realize, that while you may have the best grades, you may find it hard to get a long with people if you think so highly about yourself. While confidence is great, it shouldn't be confused with cockiness.

That being said, I would much rather have a healthcare profession being it a PT, or an MD with great interpersonal skills and decent grades, than the one with a 4.0 and can't seem to carry a conversation. Aside from you post,the suggestion as if you should apply to this profession, should be based on your intersts, and your desire to help others. It shouldn't be about the money, or job title, because in the end money won't make you happy. Physical therapy is one of the most satisfying jobs out there and the job market is growing. So if your interests stem from helping others, and the function of the human body then maybe it may be for you. Otherwise, you may want to consider another career.

 

[Future PT 12]

ptsudentobe certainly makes a good point

there is more to PT school than just getting the grades. Take account of volunteer hours, communication skills, and extra circular activities. PT school's look for a well rounded student. They are not looking for someone who just did the minimum amount of volunteer hours and have a 4.0. They are going to look for someone who is out going and who has extra circular activities.

Sure a dentist will certainly make more than a PT, but you also have to realize dental school is a little longer than PT school. They also hold more responsibilities than PT's. Patient's come to us with referral's from Doctors. People go straight to the dentist if they need a root canal or filling done.

If you have researched and have figured out what that you want to be a PT in the near future, then you should not be asking this question.

 

[oregonprept]

Hmmm... I have to say you sound like a better fit as some kind of doctor. Not to be mean, but seriously many (not all) doctors do feel they are a superior than the general populous... and many are. To a degree I think being a doctor takes that kind extreme self confidence, sometimes it just spills over into narcissism. lol.

Really though I'm sure you just meant to be honest in your post and it came out a little douchey. I'd say try to expand and shadow some new careers, or specialty MD's. Being a PA would be good, and you spend more time with patients than docs usually do. Remember you want something that will challenge you enough to keep you interested, but not burn you out.

For me, I'm dead set on PT.

Good luck

 

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[MotionDoc]

Okay, first I want to start off by explaining I mean no rudeness in this post, I'm simply looking for the truth. I'm not trolling either.

Bluntness is fine.

Alright, all my life I've been the straight A student throughout HS, throughout community college (got my AA in HS), and now after my first year of university I'm still pulling A's even in an honors chem II class. Countless nights I've stressed while other kids surfed facebook, etc.

You sound like an excellent student, but I wouldn't be too quick to judge others.

Now back to my point:
Around my university a lot of the pre-PT kids are lazy, overweight, party, apathetic about school and suck at talking/speaking infront/to people. Or they are another breed, athletic girls who are almost MANLY that have tons of energy but bad grades. Also, many of the people in the ECs and GPA thread get like low 3.0's and major in like dance.

From your perspective it may seem that PTs are dichotomized into athletes and/or social rejects, but go shadow a few PTs (more than one) to get a real understanding of the profession. Granted, a large portion of pre-PTs are Exercise Science, Kinesiology, etc. majors (which are notorious for being worthless undergraduate degrees that do little more than make good personal trainers)...but go take a look at some of your school's post-graduation statistics...where I came from, 20% of them went to Med School... This leads me to ask: are you really upset that these individuals aren't working as hard as you? Or are you upset that you are not enjoying 'life' as they are (I put life in quotes because you may very well enjoy putting in long hours behind the books, but it sure doesn't sound like it from your post...to each his own)? If you found out the kid that smokes up every night and gets trashed every weekend is also holding a 4.0, would you still be upset?

These types of people aren't me at all. I'm the opposite, I get straight A's and stress about EACH and EVERY class, I'll be bilingual in Japanese by the time I graduate, I have a somewhat good build as I take bodybuilding seriously, I don't party, drink or smoke, I keep up with current events, politics, business and I read Everyday, and most of all I work in sales, so I am really good at talking to people, interacting and making them feel comfortable.

You are well accomplished, and very mature...that is very evident. You stressing about every class though, my personal opinion would be to relax and enjoy life a little bit too...its all about balance friend. note: that doesn't mean you should go party, drink, or smoke.

Anyways, it seems like I won't fit in if PT is such an unprofessional field, I mean I've worked hard all my life and I'm afraid I'll be disappointed. I really want to help people, and I know PT is the career for me (I've shadowed pharmacist and dentist), but I've also worked SO hard that 60k a year seems like a joke.

Here you go judging already...and not just those you personally encounter, but the hundreds of thousands of physical therapists currently practicing... Relax. Your post is relaying your frustration very well, and I will chalk up the judgmental attitude to that.

To address this point: shadowing a pharmacist and dentist, then deciding that neither is the path for you, does not automatically rule in physical therapy...go shadow a physical therapist. Secondly, if you believe that you will be disappointed with your life making 60k a year (or more like 80k really), then you probably shouldn't be considering Physical Therapy...your not going to get rich doing it (on the other hand, perhaps you will, you seem motivated enough). If, however, you measure your life's worth by more than income, then make that explicit...it doesn't sound like you do.

So is this theme rampant throughout the career of the physical therapist, or do these people leave the career or change their ways during PT school. I'm really thinking this is why physicians laugh at the field and we will get paid 60k even though we have a doctorate that's no more useful than a bachelor's of PT.

First, if you know physicians that laugh at the field, then you should laugh right back at them...(note: i think that you think physicians laugh at the field, not that any you know actually do). Physical Therapy is an integral player in medicine, and many of the leading minds of rehabilitation medicine are physical therapists. If you think PT needs further defense as a legitimate profession, I'd advise you do your own due diligence.

CLIFFS:
1)I want to be a PT, (I've researched MD and not for me, shadowed other pre-health fields).
2) All my life I've worked harder than anyone else both academically and in other ways.
3) Kids getting accepted into PT school seem to be miles behind me from my observation.
4) Seems like a joke I'll earn a doctorate and make 60k which a dentist could make working <20 hrs per week.
5) I know this is what I want to do, but is there any place in the industry for motivated people like me? Or should I consider something else?

The kids around you may indeed be miles behind you, and they may very well be getting into PT schools that are, in fact, way beneath what you are looking for. Do you believe that this is unique only to physical therapy? You don't think the same is true in just about all other field? If you don't think so, again do some research.

With all that said, your achievements thus far are very commendable, and you should be proud, and most definitely reach for the best options available to you. Still, as wonderful your accomplishments, they are not far from the ordinary from where I sit. I turned down two six figure job offers in two very different fields, to go to PT school. My undergraduate application would have also secured me a seat among a number of excellent MD/PhD programs (I am currently PT/PhD), but I chose PT for a reason, and that reason was not to be surrounded by a bunch of laughing-stock idiots. Additionally, among my current PT class, my story is not really that special...I can honestly say that I am surrounded by individuals just as accomplished and motivated as I am.

You will find individuals on these boards that suggest it best to go to your local state school if you are considering PT. They do so because it is cheaper, and they believe it is hard to justify the added cost of going to a ranked out of state program...I outright disagree with these individuals, but it is probably because our goals are different. They have a "get in and get out" mentality. Go to school, graduate, and then do the real learning in the clinic. Yea, of course that makes sense, but I am strong believer that the quality of the program you attend will determine the quality of your clinical experiences both in and out of school. From there, it is up to the individual...but an individual with all the new fancy gadgets (an education from the profession's leading minds) as compared to an individual with just a tool belt is much better off IMO.

If you don't want to be the same type of PT as your drunken peers, then don't go to the PT schools you see most of them going to...they are few and far between, but they apparently do exist (again, like all other professions). 1) shadow a PT 2) do your due diligence

 

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[Cyres]

Sure a dentist will certainly make more than a PT, but you also have to realize dental school is a little longer than PT school. They also hold more responsibilities than PT's. Patient's come to us with referral's from Doctors. People go straight to the dentist if they need a root canal or filling done.

Please do some reading on direct access and the APTA's vision 2020.

 

[MinnDasota]

Unfortunately, your post does put down a lot of people and sounds very self indulgent. Having confidence is one thing, but to put others down to enhance your stats is another. PT is an "unprofessional" field? Interesting. I understand your concerns, but as others have pointed out, a 4.0 does not translate into a good PT if you don't have the people skills nor if you can't apply the book to the clinic. Some just don't have the natural ability to memorize or take tests well as others. So I wouldn't be quick to judge those with lower GPAs.

It's great that you work and study very hard (but don't think you are alone in that category). That doesn't mean that someone who studies dance doesn't do the same. Truthfully, I've had several dancers in my class that were geniuses.

What makes you think you are miles ahead of those "kids" that have been accepted into PT school?

Keep up the good work in school, but please, don't put others down. It sounds as if you need to get more observation hours with PTs to see what we really do and who we really are. You really can't get that through books.

 

[ksiem]

Also, all those pre-PT students you see around you, nothing guarantees that they will be accepted into a PT program. I know people pre-pt all the way until their senior year and some have just realized it's a long shot. There aren't very many people who get accepted to PT school with less than a 3.5, that I know of. You make a lot of stereotypes and I feel like it's based on ignorance of your student body. I could easily say I don't know if med school is right for me, so many of them study all the time, are stressed about every test, lack social skills, but at the end of the day I know many pre-med people that aren't like the stereotypes I've come up with. Go hang out with groups of people and become more social and see if your eyes open a bit wider.

 

[soccer31]

You will find individuals on these boards that suggest it best to go to your local state school if you are considering PT. They do so because it is cheaper, and they believe it is hard to justify the added cost of going to a ranked out of state program...I outright disagree with these individuals, but it is probably because our goals are different. They have a "get in and get out" mentality. Go to school, graduate, and then do the real learning in the clinic. Yea, of course that makes sense, but I am strong believer that the quality of the program you attend will determine the quality of your clinical experiences both in and out of school. From there, it is up to the individual...but an individual with all the new fancy gadgets (an education from the profession's leading minds) as compared to an individual with just a tool belt is much better off IMO.

MotionDoc, your entire post was right, but I especially liked the above quote. I completely agree with it and it bothers me how much I read about this "get in, get out" mentality that you mentioned in this forum. Just like any other profession, there are those who just go through the motions, get the job done (well, most of the time), and at the end of the month collect their paycheck. Sure, each student's will and dedication throughout PT school is different. I read around here people being like "I will just go to the cheapest MPT program I can find, but I will put the extra effort and at the end I will learn just as much as a DPT". Well, even with your extra effort you are not going far if you are not provided the right tools. Just keep that in mind. Quick disclaimer: I am not saying go spend 120k just in tuition or graduate with a 150k in debt, but try to find a balance instead. Ok, that was my rant, now back to the topic....

ksiem also said the right words. I had numerous classmates in undergrad that were pre-whatever (PT/OT/MD/DO/PA/PHARM, etc), but I can count on my fingers the actual amount of people who continued their graduate studies on that area. Just on my graduating class of around 30-40 Exercise Science students, probably half of them were applying to graduate programs. The actual number of people who got in: 1 PT, 3 OT, 1 MPH. My point is people are going to say that they are pre-PT, but most of them honestly are just not going to be fit for it. Just a quick comparison, how many Biology majors you know claim they are pre-med? Now, how many actually got into med school? Its the same thing!

 

[truthseeker]

Thanks for the post.

This board seems to have many intelligent people as well as motivated people which isn't mirrored by the pre-PT people I've came across in real life. Perhaps it is my school or a freaky coincidence, but you gave me more confidence in pursuing the field.

But yeah, my apologies if I came off as a DB , reading it again, my post sounds terribly mean, but I was just trying to point out the bad characteristics of the people I've met thus far on my journey!

With all due respect, the people you describe may be pre PT but I can bet that they won't be getting in anywhere.

I am very happy for you that you have such a heightened sense of self worth, not everyone is as good at everything as you are, plus you have a nice body.

that snarkiness aside, do what you want. Don't do what you think other people think you should. Dr.s don't laugh at our profession, they respect us and rely upon us as part of the team to make their patients better.

Frankly, I thought your post was rude, irritating, condescending, and a little (OK a lot) misinformed.

Good luck

 

[Future PT 12]

Please do some reading on direct access and the APTA's vision 2020.

To inform you, I have read about Direct Access and Vision 2020 way before I made the comment. Do realize that there are many limitations that vary by state for Direct Access. In some states, a patient still has to see a physician before being referred to a PT. In some cases insurance companies will not pay for the patients Physical Therapy if they do not have a referral from a physician. Also Alabama and Indiana has NO direct access. I have also read about Vision 2020 and how everything will be in the direction of DPT instead of MPT by 2020.

I might say that you need to do some MORE reading on direct access and Vision 2020.

 

[ericdopt]

Wow, what a DB'y post. Re: grades, I knew of a fellow "pre-PT" student with massive experience and a 4.0 to boot. He didn't get in, but did get into many ivy league medical schools. PT schools are looking for the "whole package".

Docs do not laugh at the profession, btw. Please, to all current and future PT's...you are not looked down upon so lose the complex re: physicians.

Finally re: direct access. It doesn't matter if you have direct access or not. It all depends on if you will get reimbursed and like what was already said, laws vary state to state. Direct access is not the panacea that everyone thinks it is.

 

[jess818]

It seems like the answer to your question can only come from yourself. Have you shadowed PTs? That's the only real way to know if it's for you.

I just got accepted to PT school and they only look at three things-1. GPA 2. Pre-req. GPA 3. GRE

I think they would benefit from looking at more qualities, but it goes to show that you need to be pretty smart to get in. The average GPA is about a 3.7 and we take anantomy with cadavers and neuroscience with brain specimens.

In any case, you really should shadow some PTs.

 

[Cyres]

To inform you, I have read about Direct Access and Vision 2020 way before I made the comment. Do realize that there are many limitations that vary by state for Direct Access. In some states, a patient still has to see a physician before being referred to a PT. In some cases insurance companies will not pay for the patients Physical Therapy if they do not have a referral from a physician. Also Alabama and Indiana has NO direct access. I have also read about Vision 2020 and how everything will be in the direction of DPT instead of MPT by 2020.

Good for you! I was just confused as your prior post left the distinct impression that you had no clue therapists treated autonomously... as you indicated that therapists did not treat autonomously.

Finally re: direct access. It doesn't matter if you have direct access or not. It all depends on if you will get reimbursed and like what was already said, laws vary state to state. Direct access is not the panacea that everyone thinks it is.

Says the physician who enjoys reimbursement for the direct access care he/she provides.

Third party payers deny payment for direct access care therapists provide by pointing out that all states don't have direct access. States that do not have direct access don't have it in large part because of the medical and chiropractic lobbies that rise to rail against therapists' efforts to procure it. Hum, why would those lobbies do that? The argument usually boils down to the concern over compromised patient care... but only because it sounds so much better than "we'll lose money".

You are correct, it isn't a cure-all. But it is a pill a lot of other therapists and I would gladly swallow.

 

[johncronejr]

True reimbursed direct access for Physical Therapist just makes good sense. No matter what arena of business you are talking about, if you have a problem would you not rather take your problem to a qualified, less expensive option than immediately going to the most expensive?

I know if I hurt myself training, I would much rather be able to go see a PT first, and then if it is beyond therapy, then I will go see a surgeon.

With all the healthcare hoopla going on today, I would think if the current administration really wants to lower healthcare costs that they would take a look at this.

 

[chman]

Also, all those pre-PT students you see around you, nothing guarantees that they will be accepted into a PT program. I know people pre-pt all the way until their senior year and some have just realized it's a long shot. There aren't very many people who get accepted to PT school with less than a 3.5, that I know of. You make a lot of stereotypes and I feel like it's based on ignorance of your student body. I could easily say I don't know if med school is right for me, so many of them study all the time, are stressed about every test, lack social skills, but at the end of the day I know many pre-med people that aren't like the stereotypes I've come up with. Go hang out with groups of people and become more social and see if your eyes open a bit wider.

This. Dude, just like there are a ton of "pre-meds" out there are a ton of "pre-rehab" students. Does that mean they are getting in? Heck no. People who are not serious get weened out fast. Also, before you generalize a profession, maybe you should do some shadowing (which most people start before their junior year, but those people are probably are not as hard working as you right?). You may be able to get a better idea of the kind of person it takes to get through PT school and work with patients (hint; most of them don't think they are better than their patients; even the patients who don't have degrees and such). By the way, I'm pre-med, but volunteer on a rehab floor, so I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[HarMegido]

I know if I hurt myself training, I would much rather be able to go see a PT first, and then if it is beyond therapy, then I will go see a surgeon.

I strongly advise against this. A physician is trained to look at the whole picture. Getting injured is more than just, "ouch, that hurts." there are a whole lot of other issue to be ruled out such as genetic and metabolic disorders. Also, you want to talk about lowering costs? a physician can offer alternative therapies that may be cheaper than physical therapy since they are trained in a broad spectrum of therapies (they may not know everything a PT does, but they do know a little but about everything to offer alternatives). and if you injure yourself more in therapy because you missed a crucial diagnosis, you just drove costs up more and possibly could have caused some more serious damage to yourself.

no physician will send you right to surgery. surgery is invasive and always a last resort

 

[truthseeker]

I strongly advise against this. A physician is trained to look at the whole picture. Getting injured is more than just, "ouch, that hurts." there are a whole lot of other issue to be ruled out such as genetic and metabolic disorders. Also, you want to talk about lowering costs? a physician can offer alternative therapies that may be cheaper than physical therapy since they are trained in a broad spectrum of therapies (they may not know everything a PT does, but they do know a little but about everything to offer alternatives). and if you injure yourself more in therapy because you missed a crucial diagnosis, you just drove costs up more and possibly could have caused some more serious damage to yourself.

no physician will send you right to surgery. surgery is invasive and always a last resort

Remember, if "he hurt himself while training" he would not probably be suffering from a metabolic disorder or genetic disorder, and a PT is much more likely to be able to tease out the nature of the injury than a family practice doc. You can't tell me that someone is going to go into their PCP and tell them that they hurt their shoulder lifting weights and any PCP is going to do a genetic work up. I think you are being a bit defensive here. Few FP docs will claim to be able to do a better ortho exam than a PT. We on the other hand can't remember lab values that we only had to know when we took a test in PT school.

The best, most efficient way to save money and get patients the best care is to go to the best provider needed for their particular injury. If symptoms come out of thin air then yes, the FP doc is maybe the best for the exact reasons you stated. BUT if the problem is clearly musculoskeletal and not likely to be surgical, the best place, in my opinion, is to a PT.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Yeah...Truthseeker is right on that one... after talking to my PT about my tendon snapping everytime I point my foot in ballet class, she thought she knew what it was (and after MRIs, dynamic ultrasounds and 2 orthos seeing me it turns out she was right all along) and told me to get a script for PT (I live in a non-direct access state). I went to my PCP to get a prescription and while I was the for my usual check up, he listened to it and said "ankles crack all the time...it's not anything insurance will see as medically necessary and it's not worth the price of PT."

I love my PCP, he's awesome, but he had no idea what he was talking about. I put it off for another 3 months, finally went to an ortho, got an Rx for PT, had more tests done, and then another 6 months of PT....had I gotten PT right away I probably could have forgone a lot of expensive testing and excess therapy.

 

[honker23]

I have an idea, look into politics. Many politicians feel they are superior and smarter than the normal guy/gal. You'll fit right in.

You are way too smart to consider PT, don't waste your time get out now.

Sorry if this comes across as rude or insensitive.

 

[chman]

I have an idea, look into politics. Many in politicians feel they are superior and smarter than the normal guy/gal. You'll fit right in.

You are way too smart to consider PT, don't waste your time get out now.

Sorry if this comes across as rude or insensitive.

Why? The OP wasn't.

 

[lee9786]

.Sounds to me like the OP needs a little real world experience to help get him down from the high horse. Good grades do not entitle anyone to a secure future. In the world outside of academia, no one cares what grade you got in Chem II. Everyone here getting into PT programs had to take the class as well. The four-hour weekly lab reports are well known. Everyone going through this knows the sacrifice of personal time lost. I wonder how the "better than thou" attitude is going to go over with the majority of your patients. Sales and patient care are two different things.

The truth is healthcare in general doesn't offer the same income potential as it did in the past. Everyday it makes less sense to pursue this path financially as tuition costs skyrocket and reimbursement declines. Think long and hard about this decision. If you choose the healthcare route, than you will be putting the needs of others before yours.

In most likely five years or less, expect to see major changes in how Medicare is handled. Nothing is being done to solve the blatant reality that there is not enough money going into the system to pay for patient care. Add a couple trillion-dollar government deficit along with the thousands of other entitlements in this country, and there could very well be a very precarious situation ahead. On top of this, add HC reform, which most likely will only strengthen the oligopoly power of the insurance industry allowing them to further dictate reimbursement rates to providers.

Hopefully if you've been doing what you said you were, than this is all old news. You've realized the mass media outlets such as Fox and CNN are only there to tell you what they want you to hear and you've decided to get your information from independent sources. You've realized the middle class's future earnings have already been taken from them via the government’s rampant expansion and fiscal policy. You've realized once you look beneath the surface, democrats and republicans are working for the same people and have been pursuing the same agenda though their actions. The corporations and banks receive large sums of via unearned taxpayer dollars and imaginary money while the country is left with near twenty percent real unemployment with no real plan to revitalize the private sector.

So look at your priorities. Want to make a lot of money? Become a politician and work to fill your pockets with taxpayer dollars and corporate contributions. Don't think grades will really matter but there you go. You don't even have to do what you say you are going to. Americans by and large won't be paying attention anyway as the propaganda machine of our mass media keeps us all focused on Tiger Woods as opposed to important news such as Fort Knox and the Federal Reserve. Want to help people? Work in healthcare. You might end up volunteering your time for others with no pay. You'll have politicians working to redistribute your "wealth," while working to keep you in debt to help their banking buddies.
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[mshake]

My fellow pre-PT (well, PT student now that I got into a program) and I are the opposite of the pre-PT students that you describe.

That said, you could try PT but PT schools tend to weed out the egotistical douchebags. Sorry.

 

[truthseeker]

 

[PTstudent11]

in the end, my friend, you are chosing your life's work. Consider the following:

If there is one comment I get all the time when I tell people i'm going to PT school, "but you are SOO smart, you should like, be a doctor or something!??!"

the truth is, i dont WANT to be a physician. Could I get into medical school based on my undergrad grades?.. absolutely. Could I study hard and do well on the MCAT? most likely. But at the end of the day, I'm chosing a career that I feel a passion for.

A career that is ranked #2 in job satisfaction against ALL other careers (topped only by clergy). A job that sees REAL, significant growth and development in its patients. A job that at the end of the day, I can go home, relax, spend time with my family, have hobbies, have children, and look forward to waking up the next morning.

So when i saw your post, I thought, wow, you must be going through what everyone has tried to convince me... that I'm somehow not living up to my potential by being an MD, a dentist, or some other 100k + earner. And at first it was hard for me to deal with, I won't lie. But as I worked, shadowed, researched and volunteered in PT, I no longer felt the need to explain myself or please others. This is my life. My Career. My choice. I'm confident i'm making the right one.

Excelling in undergrad gave me the freedom to choose where I wanted to go to for PT school. To be able to afford my education. To be able to start the process of becoming the Physical Therapist I can't wait to be.

And despite what you may think, its really true, those lazy students you are talking about WONT be your collegues in the end. This field is NOT unprofessional, those students are. And for that reason, even aside from grades, they will never make it. I won't lecture you on WHY PT is a professional career, but be warned that you won't make many friends here with talk like that. Bachelors, Masters, Doctorate, what-have-you, its the people in the field that make it professional, their ethics and standards and quality of care.

Just stay humble. I applaude your efforts throughout college thus far, and you have put yourself into a great position for whatever profession you choose. But remember, you are NOT overqualified for PT simply because you have good grades. The avg. GPA of my incoming class of students is a 3.8 GPA. So even those with a 4.0 are hardly 'over qualified'.

Alas, I am rambling. So I'll kindly step off my soap box and remind you: Your life. Your call. Choose wisely. Stay humble. Stay focused. and don't lose sight of what you really want out of life. and oh yeah, DON'T overstress (you'll burn out). If your legal, feel free to cut loose now and then

ps. is their room in the industry for those motivated like you? absolutely. They are the clinic managers and owners, the administrators, the researchers, the teachers, and the DARN good PT's that keep their patients healthy, happy, and progressing.

 

[truthseeker]

in the end, my friend, you are chosing your life's work. Consider the following:

If there is one comment I get all the time when I tell people i'm going to PT school, "but you are SOO smart, you should like, be a doctor or something!??!"

the truth is, i dont WANT to be a physician. Could I get into medical school based on my undergrad grades?.. absolutely. Could I study hard and do well on the MCAT? most likely. But at the end of the day, I'm chosing a career that I feel a passion for.

A career that is ranked #2 in job satisfaction against ALL other careers (topped only by clergy). A job that sees REAL, significant growth and development in its patients. A job that at the end of the day, I can go home, relax, spend time with my family, have hobbies, have children, and look forward to waking up the next morning.

So when i saw your post, I thought, wow, you must be going through what everyone has tried to convince me... that I'm somehow not living up to my potential by being an MD, a dentist, or some other 100k + earner. And at first it was hard for me to deal with, I won't lie. But as I worked, shadowed, researched and volunteered in PT, I no longer felt the need to explain myself or please others. This is my life. My Career. My choice. I'm confident i'm making the right one.

Excelling in undergrad gave me the freedom to choose where I wanted to go to for PT school. To be able to afford my education. To be able to start the process of becoming the Physical Therapist I can't wait to be.

And despite what you may think, its really true, those lazy students you are talking about WONT be your collegues in the end. This field is NOT unprofessional, those students are. And for that reason, even aside from grades, they will never make it. I won't lecture you on WHY PT is a professional career, but be warned that you won't make many friends here with talk like that. Bachelors, Masters, Doctorate, what-have-you, its the people in the field that make it professional, their ethics and standards and quality of care.

Just stay humble. I applaude your efforts throughout college thus far, and you have put yourself into a great position for whatever profession you choose. But remember, you are NOT overqualified for PT simply because you have good grades. The avg. GPA of my incoming class of students is a 3.8 GPA. So even those with a 4.0 are hardly 'over qualified'.

Alas, I am rambling. So I'll kindly step off my soap box and remind you: Your life. Your call. Choose wisely. Stay humble. Stay focused. and don't lose sight of what you really want out of life. and oh yeah, DON'T overstress (you'll burn out). If your legal, feel free to cut loose now and then

ps. is their room in the industry for those motivated like you? absolutely. They are the clinic managers and owners, the administrators, the researchers, the teachers, and the DARN good PT's that keep their patients healthy, happy, and progressing.

Wow, Very well said. The words you typed could have come from my mouth. I agree with everything you said and the way you said it.

If you need a job, PM me.

 

[chman]

Wow, Very well said. The words you typed could have come from my mouth. I agree with everything you said and the way you said it.

If you need a job, PM me.

Times 2

 

[maxblink]

[..

 

[PTtoBe]

MotionDoc, your entire post was right, but I especially liked the above quote. I completely agree with it and it bothers me how much I read about this "get in, get out" mentality that you mentioned in this forum. Just like any other profession, there are those who just go through the motions, get the job done (well, most of the time), and at the end of the month collect their paycheck. Sure, each student's will and dedication throughout PT school is different. I read around here people being like "I will just go to the cheapest MPT program I can find, but I will put the extra effort and at the end I will learn just as much as a DPT". Well, even with your extra effort you are not going far if you are not provided the right tools. Just keep that in mind. Quick disclaimer: I am not saying go spend 120k just in tuition or graduate with a 150k in debt, but try to find a balance instead.

I'm a believer that you can have your cake and eat it too.

It's not the school you go to that makes you a better person and a better physical therapist. It's you. I was accepted to both schools I applied to and accepted the state school because it's cheaper by 30 grand or so. After a year as a student I recognize the strengths and limitations of the program, but in the end it does not really matter because it is my passion, my will and my work ethic that will determine how much I will contribute to this world, one person at a time. And so I will take what this school has to offer and strengthen and fashion it in my own manner, and add to it through experience each year.

It's not the school that makes the difference at the end of the day. It's who you are, what you care about, and your ability to recognize and take advantage of your own capabilities.

Soccer31, I recognize that you aren't in disagreement with this; I just wanted to embellish your perspective.

 

[MotionDoc]

I'm a believer that you can have your cake and eat it too.

It's not the school you go to that makes you a better person and a better physical therapist. It's you. I was accepted to both schools I applied to and accepted the state school because it's cheaper by 30 grand or so. After a year as a student I recognize the strengths and limitations of the program, but in the end it does not really matter because it is my passion, my will and my work ethic that will determine how much I will contribute to this world, one person at a time. And so I will take what this school has to offer and strengthen and fashion it in my own manner, and add to it through experience each year.

It's not the school that makes the difference at the end of the day. It's who you are, what you care about, and your ability to recognize and take advantage of your own capabilities.

Soccer31, I recognize that you aren't in disagreement with this; I just wanted to embellish your perspective.

I am not in disagreement with you either...it is up to each individual clinician to maintain and progress his/her skills post-PT school. My problem with deciding on a school solely on how much it costs, is that often times that means passing up priceless learning opportunities many of the larger, and usually ranked schools have to offer. There is a reason why the mantra "Better than a thousand days of diligent study is one day with a great teacher" has echoed through academic halls for ages, and why when individuals walk away from a poorly taught class they proclaim "that was totally worthless" or "i learned nothing." Of course I do not think that these great teachers are only found in ranked schools...they are everywhere. As true as that may be, does your program have one or two or five or ten? Are you surrounded by the best in the field? Of course, you first have to define "best." My definition of "best" is the individual who can not only inspire through teaching, but who through clinical research is shaping current practice. Maybe that is not your definition of best...STILL, it takes something like 18 years for new advancements in research to make it to every day practice (this is across medicine, and probably worse for PT)...is that how long it is going to take before your school changes? Perhaps not, but I'd rather get my milk from the cow...that way not only will I be certain I understand all the current evidence, but I'll get why they came to that conclusion much better than reading some journal article.

Aside from all that, some programs offer learning experiences that other schools simply can't match. For example: the orthopedic section of my curriculum was shaped in collaboration with local orthopedic surgeons that happen to be among the best in the nation. They have joined the PT faculty in teaching the section for over 20 years (for free may I add), and not only do they offer their expertise in lectures, but we are also required to observe shoulder, hip, knee, foot/ankle surgeries along with other learning experiences such as casting. These experiences are not directed at PTs learning how surgery is performed, rather why surgeries are done the way they are (so that PT can be most successful). Not only is the experience itself unique, but being able to fluently communicate with surgeons regarding the surgical technique that would allow the most effective rehabilitation course is an incredibly worthwhile skill (especially for the patient). Most programs would absolutely want these types of experiences for their students, but due to various circumstances (location, lack of contacts, whatever) they just can't.

Similarly, in the neuro section of the curriculum, we are afforded incredible opportunities to work with various neurologic patients on a weekly basis as the program hosts MS, Stroke, CP, TBI clinics where patients come in and students work with them directly progressing them through the semester. Again, many programs don't even have the opportunity to offer this to their students because they lack an adequate patient base (whether cause they are in the middle of no where, or again lack of contacts). Note: this is in addition to integrated clinical experiences in the university PT clinic, and outside clinical affiliations.

Alas, this has turned into a poor description of my curriculum, and that's not what I was aiming for. My point: better programs will offer you better learning experiences - some that many clinicians will never be able to get (due to lack of time, money, contacts, etc.).

With all that said, I agree that it is up to the individual in the end...I can come out with a better clinician than 90% of new grads, but then I can regress to the mean or continue to push forward...the later is incredibly difficult (that's why ensuring that you are surrounded by colleagues that are continuously pushing forward is vital, albeit rare.)

 

[jman128]

As someone who is having a difficult time with figuring out what I want to do, I understand the topic creator.

I was pre-med at first, but decided against it after learning more about the profession and lifestyle of students and doctors.

At one point I did consider PT but it rubbed me the wrong way. I too have excellent grades and study hard and PT does seem...idk what the right word is but its definitely not as intellectually challenging as medicine. I am not saying PTs arent smart, but as a pre-med student I worked waaaaay harder than anyone who was pre-PT.

Plus, I am also concerned about the earning of PTs which don't look great unless you had money to begin with to open a nice practice like the one I shadowed.

Dentistry seems like a good deal of earnings and lifestyle but the actual work isn't too interesting (doing surgery everyday hunched over in a small cavity) and the cost of schooling is astronomical.

idk, im in the same boat as the OP

 

[MotionDoc]

As someone who is having a difficult time with figuring out what I want to do, I understand the topic creator.

I was pre-med at first, but decided against it after learning more about the profession and lifestyle of students and doctors.

At one point I did consider PT but it rubbed me the wrong way. I too have excellent grades and study hard and PT does seem...idk what the right word is but its definitely not as intellectually challenging as medicine. I am not saying PTs arent smart, but as a pre-med student I worked waaaaay harder than anyone who was pre-PT.

Plus, I am also concerned about the earning of PTs which don't look great unless you had money to begin with to open a nice practice like the one I shadowed.

Dentistry seems like a good deal of earnings and lifestyle but the actual work isn't too interesting (doing surgery everyday hunched over in a small cavity) and the cost of schooling is astronomical.

idk, im in the same boat as the OP

I am going to go out on a limb here, and somewhat disagree. How do you define intellectually challenging? By intellectually challenging, do you mean able to memorize large amounts of information and later regurgitate it back out? If so, then yes, medical school is indeed more intellectually challenging...much more than any other professional training. Now, by that same definition, can you comfortably call a PhD in mathematics or theoretical physics intellectually challenging? Sure, lots of information, but PhDs aren't about how much you know...rather how you can apply what you know in the formation and answering of new questions.

I am going to give you my definition of intellectually challenging, you can choose not to agree of course. By its very definition, to be an intellectual means to use one's mind to solve problems...so for a profession to be intellectually challenging, it needs to constantly force individuals to think differently (if it just forced individuals to think, where is the challenge there? In that scenario, I'd define the profession as intellectually stimulating.). Now, this is where it gets tricky...how do you define think?

In the modern day practice of medicine, clinicians use a hypothesis driven approach to making diagnoses and forming treatments: patient presents with "x" symptoms, clinician generates a hypothesis as to the cause of "x", then tests the hypothesis with various tests that rule in or out the hypothesis...rinse and repeat until a diagnosis is made. Physical Therapists use a similar model when forming PT diagnoses. When determining a prognosis and formulating treatment options, both the current patient condition and potential future complications are taken into consideration. Again, this is similar to how PTs treat. The process I just described for many new physicians and physical therapists alike is relatively rare...what you actually see (and this is a generality, of course not every one) is instead of testing hypotheses, they often conduct a plethora of tests generating an exhaustive list of information...much of it irrelevant. Experienced clinicians, however, generate hypothesis rather quickly (due to their many years of seeing similar presentations), and know the best tests to rule in/out those hypotheses, making the entire process run more efficiently. So, back to the original question...how do you define think?

What I just described is really just pattern recognition (don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate the complexities of diagnosis)...which gets easier with experience (like everything else in life). So in theory, medicine can be very non-intellectually challenging in due course. Indeed, many PhD graduates that go back to school for an MD complain that most of med school is rote memorization. Of course, once in actual practice you are able to apply what you learned, but then it really just goes back to recognizing disease and selecting which interventions are best given the patient condition. Anyway, your question was really: is Medicine more intellectually challenging than PT? My answer: no. Place a non-orthopod in a PTs shoes, and they perform very poorly (a product of lack of training). But don't get me wrong: physicians do know much more than PTs when it comes to the human body. PTs are really limited to neuromuscular and MSK (also a product of lack of training), whereas the large amount of background information that a physician must cross reference against in forming a pattern-driven hypothesis is indeed superior...but like mentioned earlier, with enough time in practice, can that really be considered intellectually challenging? Of course each patient is unique, but from the little understanding of medicine I do have, diagnoses are made and treatments are chosen based on the same criteria for all patients. My opinion: eventually neither are really intellectually challenging (in general, and by my definition as stated earlier). Both are intellectually stimulating, and at first glance it may appear that medicine is more intellectually stimulating, but I don't think one can define 'magnitude of stimulation' based on shear amount of background knowledge...when I think intellectually stimulating, I think "forces you to think..." For example, in order to talk and communicate, we need to master language and day-to-day terminology (which is relatively complex and a ton of information)...however, none of us would really say that simply talking is intellectually challenging or stimulating...even writing a new book, letter, e-mail to formulate an opinion and convey it in a cohesive manner is not intellectually challenging when it comes to language, rather the topic of discussion may be what's intellectually challenging... Point is: both are equally intellectually stimulating...the difference is the type of knowledge each is fluent in (which like I stated earlier is a product of education and training, not necessarily smarts).

Initially, I wanted to pursue medicine because I wanted to know everything about the human body and how it worked. I wanted to turn around and apply that knowledge in formulating new treatments for the "lost causes," the individuals forsaken by modern medicine because no one knew how to help them anymore. I thought an MD, and the corresponding medical education, meant that I could do just that...I quickly learned otherwise after many conversations with current physicians and researchers, and a little soul searching (always a good thing ). I am not a genius, and that is probably the problem , but knowing everything about the human body really wasn't going to help me achieve my goal...it would've made me a jack of all trades when it came to the human body, one that understood everything just enough to accurately make a diagnosis (hopefully!) and know how to treat common pathologies (when you hear hoofs, think horses right?). If I really wanted to help a certain patient population, I'd have to focus on that patient population. I picked PT because my passion was really rehabilitation oriented, and I felt PT had that niche pretty well covered. I picked a complementing, movement-oriented PhD (Biomechanics) for that very same reason. I may have just shown my bias, but by my definition of intellectually challenging (constantly forced to think different), I think one has to be constantly faced with unanswered problems...thus the need for a PhD .

Medicine (all specialties, including PT) is really just the application of answers from already thought-out problems.

...let the flaming begin if you actually read this post .

 

[illegallysmooth]

I see where you're coming from, but you sound like a douche and that's why everyone jumped on you. Maybe try looking into an MD/DO degree and pursuing PM&R (physical medicine and rehabilitation)?

 

[Coach Hoski]

I agree that this career choice may not be right for you, that much is evident. I would strongly advise that you pursue the position of Secretary of Health and Human Services within the Presidential Cabinet. It may be the only reasonable option given your strong academic and personal background.

 

[HarMegido]

I agree that this career choice may not be right for you, that much is evident. I would strongly advise that you pursue the position of Secretary of Health and Human Services within the Presidential Cabinet. It may be the only reasonable option given your strong academic and personal background.

actually, if you take a look at the state of the world right now, being a politician doesn't take much.

and the OP, do you or do you not want to do PT? if you want to do it, go freakin' do it. if you don't want to, don't waste your time with it. it's not about whether or not you are too good for it, it's about whether or not you want to do it.

 

[summerX]

The original poster has a valid point! There are so many physical therapy schools in the United States that realistically many pre physical therapy students can get in with substandard grades and GREs. In fact the GREs aren't even required for alot of programs. PTCAS lists some of the statistics. However, for many reasons PT is an enticing career. That could be why many top career articles list it as so.

I have a similar bacground as described by the poster. I took premed classes (IE orgo and even Calc II and did very well). After practicing PT for awhile I sometimes feel that I was using my brain more in undergrad than I am in my job. Getting orders from doctors that state out of bed to chair or walk in hallway with patient makes me feel like I am not using my brain much. Nurses also get patient into chairs and walk with them in the hallways. However I feel like I can use my brain more by eventually opening up my own physical therapy clinic. I have always enjoyed math and feel like I would enjoy the finance aspect of it. Furthermore, unless you open your own practice there isn't much advantage to being a smarter PT. Everyone with a license is basically treated the same.

Have you looked into optometry? Looking back I feel like that could have been a better option. It is more competitive and has a wider scope of practice. You probably wouldn't have to work nights or long irregular hours like doctors, but in this field from my understanding you can truly diagnose and give out medications.

 

[MotionDoc]

After practicing PT for awhile I sometimes feel that I was using my brain more in undergrad than I am in my job. Getting orders from doctors that state out of bed to chair or walk in hallway with patient makes me feel like I am not using my brain much. Nurses also get patient into chairs and walk with them in the hallways.

It sounds like you are in an acute care setting...what you described is not the reality in other PT settings, but as a practicing PT you already know that?

Furthermore, unless you open your own practice there isn't much advantage to being a smarter PT. Everyone with a license is basically treated the same.

Rethink what you stated here. You don't think being able to better treat a patient is an advantage? You don't think a better PT is more likely to be a clinic director?

 

[summerX]

Yes, I know that there are more settings, but besides outpatient the settings don't seem too challenging to me. Most therapists I have encountered will complain about nursing home therapists and practicing in a nursing home setting.

I understand that more respect might be given to better PTs, but as was mentioned before innate intelligence does not autimatically make a better PT. From what I have seen other factors have been used to pick a director. At the setting I am at now there aren't enough PTs to make one the director because we are needed full time so the SLP is the director. In one of my clinical settings a COTA was the director because there were no full time PTs on staff and at another the only full time PT was the director. I think if the poster is looking to be rewarded for his intelligence and hard work PT might not be what he is looking for. He can strive for excellence in patient care in whatever field he is going into.

 

[MotionDoc]

Yes, I know that there are more settings, but besides outpatient the settings don't seem too challenging to me. Most therapists I have encountered will complain about nursing home therapists and practicing in a nursing home setting.

I understand that more respect might be given to better PTs, but as was mentioned before innate intelligence does not autimatically make a better PT. From what I have seen other factors have been used to pick a director. At the setting I am at now there aren't enough PTs to make one the director because we are needed full time so the SLP is the director. In one of my clinical settings a COTA was the director because there were no full time PTs on staff and at another the only full time PT was the director. I think if the poster is looking to be rewarded for his intelligence and hard work PT might not be what he is looking for. He can strive for excellence in patient care in whatever field he is going into.

Frankly, I disagree.

 

[honker23]

I disagree as well.
A good director should be a mentor/model practicioner with good leadership skills, not someone who isn't busy and has nothing better to do.

 

[summerX]

I am just stating what I have seen as far as clinical directors. I am sure it doesn't hold true for every single PT practice. What should be isn't always what happens. When I went to PT school I was under the assumption that the better PTs would be directors. It's not what I have seen, but perhaps others have seen differently. Sometimes directors practice PT less once they are directors because they have more managerial duties. Maybe the good PTs want to practice full time so that is why they are sometimes not directors. I've also seen MBAs as directors (no therapy degree).

 

[JustPassin]

Thanks for the post.

This board seems to have many intelligent people as well as motivated people which isn't mirrored by the pre-PT people I've came across in real life. Perhaps it is my school or a freaky coincidence, but you gave me more confidence in pursuing the field.

But yeah, my apologies if I came off as a DB , reading it again, my post sounds terribly mean, but I was just trying to point out the bad characteristics of the people I've met thus far on my journey!

People are mirrors

 

[rcheeley]

Stay away from PT w/ a post like that.

 

[basupran]

With a thread posting like this, sounds like you should be an orthopedic surgeon, I think you'd fit the personality well.

Stay away from PT w/ a post like that.

Yeah ok...

 

[RAPrusy]

MaxBlink,
There is no such thing as being "too good" for any profession. That's a ridiculous question. Do what you love, don't chase a title because you think you "deserve" it. Humility goes a long way in any profession.
Here's some perspective for you:
As much as I hate justifying my choice of PT and touting accomplishments that were all a result of me just plain being lucky and blessed, I think that hearing from another over-achiever might do you some good.
I did two bachelor's degrees in 4 years with a 4.0 GPA and was valedictorian of my college graduating class. Lots of service, studying abroad, I speak 2 languages fluently and learning 2 more, blah blah. I got into every PT program I applied to and was offered the only scholarship that 2 of the programs award and the highest scholarships at all the other ones. It's likely I would have gotten into medical school, or to a PhD program since I did a lot of molecular biology research/symposiums as an undergrad. But that seemed stupid, just like having to justify PT as a "worthwhile" profession is. Yes, I will say that sometimes hearing about my peers going to medical school/PhD programs made me twinge a little because I know I chose a career with less recognition, but if it's recognition you're after, go into politics and leave healthcare altogether. You're not going to get that type of recognition here. You'll get some awesome gratitude from patients which is 100% more worth it.
I chose PT because it allows me to pursue my other passions of service and travel, among other reasons. While it feels wrong to have to justify my choice with all this "look, I'm accomplished and I still want to do PT" stuff, it might be what you need to hear. Basically your post seemed like a long resume/bragging list, and while I wrote a bit of the same in return, I wanted to show you that there are some crazy nerds out there like myself choosing PT and finding it to be dynamic and challenging.

One more important thing. When I got into my DPT program, I'll basically say that the playing field was leveled. While all of my classmates don't necessarily look as good on paper, there are definitely plenty of them that are doing better than I am and will make just as good if not better PTs. Kids who are used to working a lot harder than I was since school came more easily to me- and they are excelling because of it. Everybody is smart in PT school, and kids like us who know how to study and get A's in everything come to find that those talents don't really translate 100% to the real world. I have a hard time with practical application and skills tests. You'll be challenged in a whole new way. Hopefully you'll have the same experience and be humbled by it.

 

[homeboysalute]

Dentists make like 200k....where'd you get 60k?