Am I too old to go to dental school?

[Msmouth]

I am 38 and practicing hygiene for 14 years. I want to go to dental school but I fear perhaps it's the 11th hour.
The other issue is not being able to work while in school. Is working just Saturdays a possibility?

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[omaralt]

i'm going to be brutually honest here; if you still havent taken the pre-requistes and DAT, forget it. if you still need to take the pre-reqs, study and take the DAT, and then apply to dental schools; you wont be starting until 41 (considering you get in the first time) and you would be graduating at 45. the average debt load for students is roughly ~$200K (can range from <$100K for cheap state schools and $400K< for the big private schools). so financially it just wouldnt make sense.

on the other hand, if finances are not an issue, and this has been a life long dream go for it. but financially it wont make sense unless you have a lot of money (enough to pay cash for school). good luck

 

[jfitzpat]

i'm going to be brutually honest here; if you still havent taken the pre-requistes and DAT, forget it. if you still need to take the pre-reqs, study and take the DAT, and then apply to dental schools; you wont be starting until 41 (considering you get in the first time) and you would be graduating at 45. the average debt load for students is roughly ~$200K (can range from <$100K for cheap state schools and $400K< for the big private schools). so financially it just wouldnt make sense.

on the other hand, if finances are not an issue, and this has been a life long dream go for it. but financially it wont make sense unless you have a lot of money (enough to pay cash for school). good luck

I kind of disagree. I agree that it is definitely more risky, but even at 45, they should have 20 years of dentistry in front of them, maybe more if they feel like it.

To the OP, if you are willing to go full force and things come together, you can get in pretty quickly. I probably had all the stars align for me, but I quit my job in june of 2006 and started taking prereqs. I dropped my application during that fall even though I had just started my prereqs. I took the DAT on January 6, 2007 (prior to finishing my prereqs) and immediately faxed my unofficial scores to the schools. I was admitted for fall 2007. For the record, I was admitted to the school that I attended for undergrad and they gave me preference because of that.

Life's too short to do something you don't want to do for the rest of your life, but since dentistry and hygeine are so similar, I would definitely consider whether it is worth the risk to get into a position so similar to the one you already have. Good luck!

 

[omaralt]

I kind of disagree. I agree that it is definitely more risky, but even at 45, they should have 20 years of dentistry in front of them, maybe more if they feel like it.

To the OP, if you are willing to go full force and things come together, you can get in pretty quickly. I probably had all the stars align for me, but I quit my job in june of 2006 and started taking prereqs. I dropped my application during that fall even though I had just started my prereqs. I took the DAT on January 6, 2007 (prior to finishing my prereqs) and immediately faxed my unofficial scores to the schools. I was admitted for fall 2007. For the record, I was admitted to the school that I attended for undergrad and they gave me preference because of that.

Life's too short to do something you don't want to do for the rest of your life, but since dentistry and hygeine are so similar, I would definitely consider whether it is worth the risk to get into a position so similar to the one you already have. Good luck!

keep in mind she's been practicing hygiene for 18 yrs, that takes a toll on your body. to practice another 20 yrs is pushing it; and you cant guarantee yourself that. again, it comes down to economics; if you have to go $250-300K in debt, it's not worth it IMO

 

[SeattleRDH]

keep in mind she's been practicing hygiene for 18 yrs, that takes a toll on your body. to practice another 20 yrs is pushing it; and you cant guarantee yourself that. again, it comes down to economics; if you have to go $250-300K in debt, it's not worth it IMO

Well, to practice another 20 years as a hygienist but not a dentist.

To OP: you will have a VERY hard time working while in school. I only work on breaks between quarters. I tried working saturdays for a while but I didn't have enough time to study and I'm only in my postbac. It doesn't matter if you're a hygienist, if you don't have the grades when you apply then you won't get an interview.

 

[dentaldawg32]

Well, to practice another 20 years as a hygienist but not a dentist.

To OP: you will have a VERY hard time working while in school. I only work on breaks between quarters. I tried working saturdays for a while but I didn't have enough time to study and I'm only in my postbac. It doesn't matter if you're a hygienist, if you don't have the grades when you apply then you won't get an interview.

I'd agree with your opinion if you were talking about dental school, but working during undergrad (or post-bacc) once a week is entirely feasible. Many people do it.

 

[SeattleRDH]

I'd agree with your opinion if you were talking about dental school, but working during undergrad (or post-bacc) once a week is entirely feasible. Many people do it.

Working as a hygienist is a little more grueling (mentally and physically) than retail or food service. Not to mention how much harder it is when you're not in your 20s anymore. I worked 4 nights a week in a restaurant through most of my undergrad no problem but working as a part-time hygienist with full-time school and a family..... it's a bit much. Especially when every grade matters.

 

[8 SNAKE]

I probably had all the stars align for me, but I quit my job in june of 2006 and started taking prereqs. I dropped my application during that fall even though I had just started my prereqs. I took the DAT on January 6, 2007 (prior to finishing my prereqs) and immediately faxed my unofficial scores to the schools. I was admitted for fall 2007. For the record, I was admitted to the school that I attended for undergrad and they gave me preference because of that.

How many prereqs did you lack when you started in the Fall of 2006? I assume that you must have had some of them out of the way before starting again.

 

[jfitzpat]

How many prereqs did you lack when you started in the Fall of 2006? I assume that you must have had some of them out of the way before starting again.

I needed all the prereqs. My schedule was as follows:

Summer 2006: Chem I and II
Fall 2006: Orgo I, Bio I, Physics I
Spring 2007: Orgo II, Bio II, Physics II

I took the DAT without the benefit of Bio II or Orgo II. I self taught Bio and just memorized the Orgo reactants and products from the second semester (oddly enough, Orgo was my highest score).

 

[8 SNAKE]

I needed all the prereqs. My schedule was as follows:

Summer 2006: Chem I and II
Fall 2006: Orgo I, Bio I, Physics I
Spring 2007: Orgo II, Bio II, Physics II

I took the DAT without the benefit of Bio II or Orgo II. I self taught Bio and just memorized the Orgo reactants and products from the second semester (oddly enough, Orgo was my highest score).

Wow, that's incredible. Well done.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

I will disagree with omaralt. While you will be one of the older, if not the oldest, student in your class, by no means are you too old to go to sentla school. I have a classmate who will turn 49 the year she graduates from dental school. She is not worried about being too old. I know of someone who was in his 50's. I know quite a few in the 40's who have/will graduate from d-school. So, as long as you desire becoming a dentist and don't mind working until a later age than a lot of dentists work until (to pay off any loans you may have), then go for it. Knowing that you by far are not alone in considering becoming a dentist near 40 yrs of age. DO NOT listen to anyone who tells you do not do it because you are too old. It just isn't true.

Good luck!

 

[omaralt]

I will disagree with omaralt. While you will be one of the older, if not the oldest, student in your class, by no means are you too old to go to sentla school. I have a classmate who will turn 49 the year she graduates from dental school. She is not worried about being too old. I know of someone who was in his 50's. I know quite a few in the 40's who have/will graduate from d-school. So, as long as you desire becoming a dentist and don't mind working until a later age than a lot of dentists work until (to pay off any loans you may have), then go for it. Knowing that you by far are not alone in considering becoming a dentist near 40 yrs of age. DO NOT listen to anyone who tells you do not do it because you are too old. It just isn't true.

Good luck!

if you go back and read what i wrote carefully, you'll realize i said that unless she can pay cash or go to cheap state school it doesnt make sense financially (and yes i also bolded that part in my original post). if you have to go $350K in debt, it is not worth it, no matter what you think. add in compounding interest, loan to start a practice, and you need a good 10-15 yrs min to pay that off (and thats assuming your doing great, most people put it off for 25-30 yrs). and then when do you save up for retirement? i'm all for people doing what they love, but at the end of the day you have to be realistic. and considering her body has already been through 18 yrs of being a hygienist i would assume that working until 65 will be hard. either way good luck, but make sure you look the total picture to make sure it will work for you

 

[youknowthedrill]

I am 38 and practicing hygiene for 14 years. I want to go to dental school but I fear perhaps it's the 11th hour.
The other issue is not being able to work while in school. Is working just Saturdays a possibility?

I'm also 38 and I have 3 more years of undergrad to go.
You will need to make sacrifices. If you are married- is your spouse willing to take on more of the financial burden for the family and more responsibility with the children/housework?
You are in a better position that most since you know how a profitable and efficient dental practice should be run. You will incur a ton of debt, but you will be able to pay it back and still earn a nice living.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

if you go back and read what i wrote carefully, you'll realize i said that unless she can pay cash or go to cheap state school it doesnt make sense financially (and yes i also bolded that part in my original post). if you have to go $350K in debt, it is not worth it, no matter what you think. add in compounding interest, loan to start a practice, and you need a good 10-15 yrs min to pay that off (and thats assuming your doing great, most people put it off for 25-30 yrs). and then when do you save up for retirement? i'm all for people doing what they love, but at the end of the day you have to be realistic. and considering her body has already been through 18 yrs of being a hygienist i would assume that working until 65 will be hard. either way good luck, but make sure you look the total picture to make sure it will work for you

Omar, I am fully aware of your statement. And a person doesn't have to be considered any differently than a 21 year old if a person just wants a change of career. They just need to work a little longer if that is what they want. As for saving, have you ever thought that the OP has a spouse who has a job that can add to the ability to save for retirement and help reduce some of the need for all the loans. So, school that a lot of people take out loans for totaling $350k in your example could be reduced to only $200-250k. Big difference. Plus, the OP may be willing to work on weekends without a huge hinderance in education since the OP has been in the dental field for 14 years (not 18), she won't have to study as much. Plus, don't you think the OP has a clue about how dentistry can affect the body? She has an idea of the stresses placed on a back day after day. So, I am sure the OP has taken into consideration how long she might have to practice as a dentist and how it will affect the body. I know quite a few dentists who are in their 60s and are still working hard even though they have been dentists since their 20s. Good technique will save your back and hands/wrists.

If a person wants to become a dentist in their 40's - GO FOR IT!!! Plain and simple. Plenty of people choose to do it every year. I know it can be done. I have not met one of them who has wished they hadn't done it.

 

[Msmouth]

Thank you for all your replies.

I have 2 young boys and a very supportive husband. We will be eating bologna sandwiches for a while but we will do what we can to make it work.
I don't plan to open my own practice unless loads of money come raining down from the sky.
The only drawback is that I will only apply to the school that is 1/2 hour or so drive away. So I limit myself but it's my only chance as I won't uproot my family to do this.

 

[SeattleRDH]

Thank you for all your replies.

I have 2 young boys and a very supportive husband. We will be eating bologna sandwiches for a while but we will do what we can to make it work.
I don't plan to open my own practice unless loads of money come raining down from the sky.
The only drawback is that I will only apply to the school that is 1/2 hour or so drive away. So I limit myself but it's my only chance as I won't uproot my family to do this.

I am also only applying to one school.

If it's your state school that's down the road then that's a plus because they want students who will stay in the area after graduation. If it's a private school, that might be more of a challenge. You should start networking NOW. The one huge benefit that we get as hygienists is that we can get to know dentists as colleagues. If you can find a non-profit through the university where faculty volunteer then you should go help them out. It's a great way to introduce yourself and get some connections because (as you know) in the "real world" it's all about who you know.

 

[psi169]

1. My grandmother had her 50th high school reunion recently. She had everyone fill out a brief survey, then compiled them into a booklet for everyone to read. One of the questions was something like, "What would you do differently about your life?" I was surprised that a lot responses said study harder, go to school, have worked harder in school, etc. It would be hard to have those regrets at 70 years old.

2. My mom worked hard to get into med school while supporting 6 kids. When she finally got in, she went in a med school that was 3.5 hours away and she came home on the weekends. It was hard and my parents lived dirt poor, but we have lived comfortably since. I am very proud of my mom for doing what she did (and I am sure your kids will reflect similiarly).

With that said, no, you're never too old.

 

[LaFleur]

No. You're not too old...

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[lux8]

I'm in my early 40's and in dental school. It is what I've been wanting to do for some time and I finally got my wish. As far as financially, I am married with kids and moved from a different city to attend dental school. The schools are well aware of the financial aspect and there is plenty of money out there to borrow. I feel that I am borrowing more than what I actually need, but I am OK with that. Furthermore, you have a husband who is very supportive and willing to continue working while you're in school. Don't listen to any negative information and I say: "go for it". You can worry about repaying the borrowed money later. The dentist I worked for prior to dental school also brought up the money issue, but I didn't listen. Also, I too practiced dental hygiene for over 10 years. Good luck to you in your journey, make the most of it. Do well in your undergrad courses, you'll be seeing all that again when taking the DAT and in dental school.

 

[jfitzpat]

Don't listen to any negative information and I say: "go for it". You can worry about repaying the borrowed money later. The dentist I worked for prior to dental school also brought up the money issue, but I didn't listen.

I'm not making judgment on whether going back to school is right for any particular person since there are so many factors involved, but this is the type of attitude that put America into its current economic state. A much wiser person would weigh the negatives against the positives and make an informed decision instead of just ignoring what they don't want to hear...

 

[omaralt]

I'm in my early 40's and in dental school. It is what I've been wanting to do for some time and I finally got my wish. As far as financially, I am married with kids and moved from a different city to attend dental school. The schools are well aware of the financial aspect and there is plenty of money out there to borrow. I feel that I am borrowing more than what I actually need, but I am OK with that. Furthermore, you have a husband who is very supportive and willing to continue working while you're in school. Don't listen to any negative information and I say: "go for it". You can worry about repaying the borrowed money later. The dentist I worked for prior to dental school also brought up the money issue, but I didn't listen. Also, I too practiced dental hygiene for over 10 years. Good luck to you in your journey, make the most of it. Do well in your undergrad courses, you'll be seeing all that again when taking the DAT and in dental school.

lol this is what i'm talking about... no regards to the possible financial ruin you could be putting your family in, and just "following your heart". many people have this romantic notion of dentistry; it really isnt, it's just a job. if your working as a hygienist now and making at least $30/hr it would make more financial sense to stay there than to go $350K + interest in debt. and your borrowing more than you need... for God's sake just take out what you need; every dollar you borrow now, you'll be paying back twice that..

 

[SeattleRDH]

lol this is what i'm talking about... no regards to the possible financial ruin you could be putting your family in, and just "following your heart". many people have this romantic notion of dentistry; it really isnt, it's just a job. if your working as a hygienist now and making at least $30/hr it would make more financial sense to stay there than to go $350K + interest in debt. and your borrowing more than you need... for God's sake just take out what you need; every dollar you borrow now, you'll be paying back twice that..

No, it doesn't necessarily make more financial sense. I'm in my 30s, married, kids, etc. I make over $40 an hour now so that's around $70,000 a year before taxes. When I graduate (just shy of 40 years old) I will be taking over an established practice and taking home at least $180,000 to start. That's well over twice what I would make if I stayed a hygienist! Sure, I'll be going backwards for a while but in the end I'll be in a much better financial situation.

There are so many factors that come into play, you can't assume that someone who is older won't be able to pay off their debt. Besides, most of the hygienists on SDN (and in the real world) are women who may be married to someone that can pay bills too. I know plenty of dentists whose wives don't even work (like my mom) and they pay off their education debt, drive nice cars, and live in big houses while saving for retirement.

So lay off the age-ism.

 

[zriceman]

I know you have done your research on pursuing the dental degree, but have you considered net income after debt service?

It would be great if you could attend a state school with low cost of tuition, and practice in a area of high need. Then your net income as a dentist, even after paying student loans + practice loans, would be greater than your net income as a hygienist. After all this it would definitely make financial sense to go ahead and pursue the dds degree.

 

[dentaldawg32]

No, it doesn't necessarily make more financial sense. I'm in my 30s, married, kids, etc. I make over $40 an hour now so that's around $70,000 a year before taxes. When I graduate (just shy of 40 years old) I will be taking over an established practice and taking home at least $180,000 to start. That's well over twice what I would make if I stayed a hygienist! Sure, I'll be going backwards for a while but in the end I'll be in a much better financial situation.

There are so many factors that come into play, you can't assume that someone who is older won't be able to pay off their debt. Besides, most of the hygienists on SDN (and in the real world) are women who may be married to someone that can pay bills too. I know plenty of dentists whose wives don't even work (like my mom) and they pay off their education debt, drive nice cars, and live in big houses while saving for retirement.

So lay off the age-ism.

How can you be so sure that your hand and diagnostic skills will be so good that you'll be able to pull in 180k a year the first year out? especially since you haven't started dental school yet. 180k first year out as a general dentist is practically unheard of. I realize you are a hygienist, but there are a lot of things to learn in dentistry outside the scope of hygiene and the skills (and subsequent income) take time to develop.

Please elaborate.

 

[jfitzpat]

No, it doesn't necessarily make more financial sense. I'm in my 30s, married, kids, etc. I make over $40 an hour now so that's around $70,000 a year before taxes. When I graduate (just shy of 40 years old) I will be taking over an established practice and taking home at least $180,000 to start. That's well over twice what I would make if I stayed a hygienist! Sure, I'll be going backwards for a while but in the end I'll be in a much better financial situation.

There are so many factors that come into play, you can't assume that someone who is older won't be able to pay off their debt. Besides, most of the hygienists on SDN (and in the real world) are women who may be married to someone that can pay bills too. I know plenty of dentists whose wives don't even work (like my mom) and they pay off their education debt, drive nice cars, and live in big houses while saving for retirement.

So lay off the age-ism.

I think you are missing the point. What Lux8 was saying was that the OP should ignore all financial considerations and negative advice and follow their heart. This is simply stupid.

I was an attorney prior to attending dental school. I was making good money and could have continued to do so. However, I hated it and wanted a way out. I sat down and ran all the numbers and decided to go to dental school. Will I probably ever break even with my income potential if I had simploy stayed in law? Not a chance. But I did consider all the financial implacations and made sure that I wasn't going to bankrupt my family in the process of following my dream.

 

[DrDientes]

I think you are missing the point. What Lux8 was saying was that the OP should ignore all financial considerations and negative advice and follow their heart. This is simply stupid.

I was an attorney prior to attending dental school. I was making good money and could have continued to do so. However, I hated it and wanted a way out. I sat down and ran all the numbers and decided to go to dental school. Will I probably ever break even with my income potential if I had simploy stayed in law? Not a chance. But I did consider all the financial implacations and made sure that I wasn't going to bankrupt my family in the process of following my dream.

I think people should think twice about having the "just go for it" attitude really consider every aspect of what you are going to put your family through and financially put yourself through

 

[omaralt]

That "just for it and not worry about the money" is the reason why this country is in this economic mess. People REALLY wanted that house. Ya it didn't make sense financially, but I'm gonna follow my heart.. Sometimes you need to follow your brain and not your heart

 

[jj007]

How can you be so sure that your hand and diagnostic skills will be so good that you'll be able to pull in 180k a year the first year out? especially since you haven't started dental school yet. 180k first year out as a general dentist is practically unheard of. I realize you are a hygienist, but there are a lot of things to learn in dentistry outside the scope of hygiene and the skills (and subsequent income) take time to develop.

Please elaborate.

+1

To SeattleRDH, I think that it might be a bit arrogant to state that you will take over a dental practice and make at least $180k when you are not even in dental school. I am assuming that by your username that you are in Seattle and that you will be applying to UW School of Dentistry as your only school. Contrary to what you might have heard about the UW, it is not that easy to get in even for in-state residents. They only select 55 students from a pool of at least a thousand applicants. Having said that, I do wish you good luck in getting into the UW SOD (if that is indeed your school) and follow your dream, but you might want to have a plan B just in case.

To the OP, you are NOT too old. However, as others have stated, do consider the implications of quitting your job, taking the prereqs, taking the DAT, applying to only one school, and then (if you're lucky) going through 4 years of dental school. I wish you good luck.

 

[SeattleRDH]

How can you be so sure that your hand and diagnostic skills will be so good that you'll be able to pull in 180k a year the first year out? especially since you haven't started dental school yet. 180k first year out as a general dentist is practically unheard of. I realize you are a hygienist, but there are a lot of things to learn in dentistry outside the scope of hygiene and the skills (and subsequent income) take time to develop.

Please elaborate.

I work as a restorative hygienist.
I will be taking over (not buying) my dad's established practice in Alaska.
There is a REAL NEED in Alaska so filling the schedule is not a problem.

I would not go into private practice if I was starting out from scratch; I would work in public health with loan forgiveness and I would still make more than a hygienist.

 

[zriceman]

I work as a restorative hygienist.
I will be taking over (not buying) my dad's established practice in Alaska.
There is a REAL NEED in Alaska so filling the schedule is not a problem.

I would not go into private practice if I was starting out from scratch; I would work in public health with loan forgiveness and I would still make more than a hygienist.

looks like you have done your hw and are in a great position

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

I guess I don't get it .... why does everyone think that money is everything? And when I say 'money is everything', I am referring to so many peoples' attitudes that they need to bank the money while being a dentist. I am pretty sure that most of the non-trads in their 30's or later have done the research and have looked at the numbers when considering changing careers. Most people realize that they may be in a lot of debt when school is done. If you look at the average debt of a graduating dental student in 2009 according to the ADEA, all school average is $163k, in state school averae is $140k and private school average is $195k. Anyone who doesn't agree with these numbers can visit the ADA website just as I did. Now, let's look at the average of $163k. That does seem like a large number and some here may say that you are going to be paying this off forever, but if you live within your means for a few years this can easily be paid off. In 2002, my wife graduated from pharmacy school. She made $84k that first year in addition to the $45k I made in the military. When you combine those salaries, it is comparable to what lot of people will make in their first year as a dentist out of dental school. Why do I bring this up? Well, to show you that if you live a modest lifestyle for a couple years, you can easily pay off the debt. My wife and I lived off my salary that year. Still, we were able to pay off our $10k credit card bill, 2 car loans (~$11k), the last $3k or my student loans and still managed to save over $30k cash to buy and furnish our first house. That was over $54k we managed to put towards things we needed to pay off or save for just by living a modest lifestyle for one year. It would take only 3 years to pay off the loans for the average graduating dentist to pay off the loans if they could resist the temptations of living a dentists lifestyle right away. Maybe some might say I have more will power than most here on this website, but I don't think so. I think most people just don't want to live a modest lifestyle one d-school is over. I think that is what separtes us older (non-trads) from the younger ones. Those of us who have decided to follow this route at a later age are willing to make sacrifices to get what we want. We aren't necesarily driven by money. We realize that aleardy may have a foot in the grave, so we have to devise a plan on how we can achieve our goals and still provide for our families. A few years of modest living after d-school can allow us to pay off the loans and still save for retirement and live a good life later.

 

[zriceman]

I guess I don't get it .... why does everyone think that money is everything? And when I say 'money is everything', I am referring to so many peoples' attitudes that they need to bank the money while being a dentist. I am pretty sure that most of the non-trads in their 30's or later have done the research and have looked at the numbers when considering changing careers. Most people realize that they may be in a lot of debt when school is done. If you look at the average debt of a graduating dental student in 2009 according to the ADEA, all school average is $163k, in state school averae is $140k and private school average is $195k. Anyone who doesn't agree with these numbers can visit the ADA website just as I did. Now, let's look at the average of $163k. That does seem like a large number and some here may say that you are going to be paying this off forever, but if you live within your means for a few years this can easily be paid off. In 2002, my wife graduated from pharmacy school. She made $84k that first year in addition to the $45k I made in the military. When you combine those salaries, it is comparable to what lot of people will make in their first year as a dentist out of dental school. Why do I bring this up? Well, to show you that if you live a modest lifestyle for a couple years, you can easily pay off the debt. My wife and I lived off my salary that year. Still, we were able to pay off our $10k credit card bill, 2 car loans (~$11k), the last $3k or my student loans and still managed to save over $30k cash to buy and furnish our first house. That was over $54k we managed to put towards things we needed to pay off or save for just by living a modest lifestyle for one year. It would take only 3 years to pay off the loans for the average graduating dentist to pay off the loans if they could resist the temptations of living a dentists lifestyle right away. Maybe some might say I have more will power than most here on this website, but I don't think so. I think most people just don't want to live a modest lifestyle one d-school is over. I think that is what separtes us older (non-trads) from the younger ones. Those of us who have decided to follow this route at a later age are willing to make sacrifices to get what we want. We aren't necesarily driven by money. We realize that aleardy may have a foot in the grave, so we have to devise a plan on how we can achieve our goals and still provide for our families. A few years of modest living after d-school can allow us to pay off the loans and still save for retirement and live a good life later.

I would just comment on dental school debt. My gf is in class of 2012. She goes to MD dental and she is instate. She lives at home and thus only takes out loans for tuition+fees. She is taking out only stafford loans (40K each year) to cover school expense. So, by the time she leaves school in 2012, she will be in 160K in debt. Obviously there would accruing loans so her actual debt is higher than 160, but for simplicity sake, i ll leave out the accrued interest. And this number is assuming your living expense is 0 for all four years.

I on the other hand attend NYU with coa (tuition+fees+living expenses) to be 80K a year. (This is how much i spent after returning extra loan money). Again for simplicity sake i shall leave out all accrued interest for the 4 years of schooling. So I will graduate from NYU in 2013 with 320K (prinicipal only) in student loans. This number is very different from the 195k quoted by ADA 2009 statistic.

IMO i dont think the "average" dentist can pay off their student loans (instate or private) in 3 years IF they took out 100% loans to finance their education and must support themselves after graduation.

 

[fishyfishy]

Msmouth

I don't think anyone is ever too old to pursue their dreams. BUT sometimes it simply makes no fiscal sense to do it. Does that mean that your dreams have been crushed?? No. But it does mean you need to be grounded in the decisions that you make.

Numbers make a good starting point. If you have to take out loans (minus living expenses) you will owe from ~150-350K depending on school (maybe 95% of all school tuition rates fall in that range).

Right now, the BEST interest rate you will get on these loans is 6.9%. To pay back a 150K loan, it takes $1733/mo to pay back in 10 years. To pay back a 350K loan, it takes $4045/mo to pay back in 10 years. Avg starting dentists make 100K/yr. This equates to 8,300/mo pretax and ~5,800/mo post tax (30% state/local approximation). The best associateship you can probably find with tons of experience and luck will pay 160K/yr, equating to ~9,800 post tax.

I am not going to continue the calculation with how much more it will cost if you add in the cost of buying a practice, which is usually a 7 yr loan at 7% with prices ranging from 250-800K (median range). I have also not calculated the cost of a mortgage, and malpractice insurance.

As you can see, there is a range of options available to you. If you only need to loan 150K, there is a definite possibility of this working out for you. If you need to loan 350K, then you should probably rethink this.

Anyways, these are just the facts.

On the other hand, WHY would one want to transition from a hygenist to an associate dentist?? The only advantage is the title, and wider range of responsibilities. Since you don't want to own a private practice, you will probably never make more than 160K/yr which is then severely decreased due to student loan payments.

Anyways, regardless of what decision you make, good luck!

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Your opinion ... and my experience ... are two different things. I know for a fact based on my experience it can be done. It just depends on how bad you want it and how willing you are to live a modest lifestyle to pay off the debt right away. If you expect to live a dentist's lifestyle right away, then,no, you will not be able to. Live like Joe Blow average American and, yes, you can. It is all about sacrifices one way or another!

I would just comment on dental school debt. My gf is in class of 2012. She goes to MD dental and she is instate. She lives at home and thus only takes out loans for tuition+fees. She is taking out only stafford loans (40K each year) to cover school expense. So, by the time she leaves school in 2012, she will be in 160K in debt. Obviously there would accruing loans so her actual debt is higher than 160, but for simplicity sake, i ll leave out the accrued interest. And this number is assuming your living expense is 0 for all four years.

I on the other hand attend NYU with coa (tuition+fees+living expenses) to be 80K a year. (This is how much i spent after returning extra loan money). Again for simplicity sake i shall leave out all accrued interest for the 4 years of schooling. So I will graduate from NYU in 2013 with 320K (prinicipal only) in student loans. This number is very different from the 195k quoted by ADA 2009 statistic.

IMO i dont think the "average" dentist can pay off their student loans (instate or private) in 3 years IF they took out 100% loans to finance their education and must support themselves after graduation.

 

[Lethstang]

You are in no way too old. Even financially this is still a good decision (depending on your time horizon). Don't worry about working in grad school, take those grad loans and get good grades. Who knows you may want to end up specializing and have your own practice.

However, for it to work financially make sure you are willing to not retire until at least 60. I wish you luck and hope to hear your success story.

Quick math for the haters

5 yrs school. -200k
5 years missed work - 300k
15 yrs working making 100k more per year - 1500k

Ignore mr fishes math, the correct financial math here is looking at accrued debt, lost wages vs gained wages (I taught corporate finance for a bit and did it for a bank).

This makes great financial sense for you, especially since you have another breadwinner in the family to make your lean period les lean.

1500-500=1000k

Yes this is extremely simplified and ignores tmv, but should be broadly illustrative regardless.

 

[dentalWorks]

do what most of us non-traditionals do..... Do your dental pre-reqs while working your fulltime job.... it will take you about 2-3 years but hey, better than no pre-reqs right?

So what if you start Dental school at 41 or 42? Dental school is only 4 years, you'll be done by 45-46. Sure you'll be in 200-400k in debt from dental school alone, but here is the BIGGEST advantage of them all, you get to be a dentist!

Trust me, a hard working dentist whos going to push alot of hours the first few years they graduate dental schools can make a crap load of money. Don't look at the national average for general dentist salaries, those are usually for folks willing to only work 35 hours per week and every state / area is different. Majority of the time, if your willing to push 50-55 hours a week, you will make a HUGE income. I know everyone is different, but If/when I graduate dental school, the first 10 years out I will be working 55-60 hours per week.... why? to get my financial life started

 

[winnie bear]

I am 38 and practicing hygiene for 14 years. I want to go to dental school but I fear perhaps it's the 11th hour.
The other issue is not being able to work while in school. Is working just Saturdays a possibility?

I don't believe you're too old. My mom's dentist is 72 and he had to essentially start over in a sense when he moved to the U.S. in his mid 40's to learn English and retake the boards. Granted, he didn't have to go to dental school all over again nor did he have student loans, but in response to the comment of the poster about your physical ability to endure it, my mom's dentist doesn't see himself retiring anytime soon because he loves what he does. He has no hygienist and does all procedures himself.

I'm no spring chicken myself and I'm starting now. Good luck to you!

 

[winnie bear]

I will disagree with omaralt. While you will be one of the older, if not the oldest, student in your class, by no means are you too old to go to sentla school. I have a classmate who will turn 49 the year she graduates from dental school. She is not worried about being too old. I know of someone who was in his 50's. I know quite a few in the 40's who have/will graduate from d-school. So, as long as you desire becoming a dentist and don't mind working until a later age than a lot of dentists work until (to pay off any loans you may have), then go for it. Knowing that you by far are not alone in considering becoming a dentist near 40 yrs of age. DO NOT listen to anyone who tells you do not do it because you are too old. It just isn't true.

Good luck!

amen!

 

[winnie bear]

Thank you for all your replies.

I have 2 young boys and a very supportive husband. We will be eating bologna sandwiches for a while but we will do what we can to make it work.
I don't plan to open my own practice unless loads of money come raining down from the sky.
The only drawback is that I will only apply to the school that is 1/2 hour or so drive away. So I limit myself but it's my only chance as I won't uproot my family to do this.

Bologna sandwiches are good stuff! Study really hard, get good grades and do well on your DAT (you have the experience and the passion for it so you're golden there!) and you may be able to go to the school in your state which will be more like $40K a year (guessing not knowing where you live) as opposed to $80K a year!

 

[fishyfishy]

However, for it to work financially make sure you are willing to not retire until at least 60.

Working as a general dentist until 60 is quite demanding. Possible, but demanding. Also, taking into account the cost of living subtracting the monthly debt payments that I calculated for you, you will not be reaping the benefits of having gone to dental school for an increased salary for many years.

From the mouth of a self proclaimed "corporate finance genius," in order to come out on top of the finances, you will have to work for at least 15 yrs after graduating.

But to be honest, all of us are really just creating hypothetical situations for you though. You just need to sit down and balance your finances yourself (including you your spouses income, cost for children, mortgage, taxes, etc). If you are OK with the finances, and the duration that you must work to make it happen, then you have your answer!

If I were in your shoes, I would consider the following options:
1) Financial reality (loan amount, future salary, repayment options, etc)
2) Retirement age
3) Passion for the profession
4) Effects on spouse and especially children (i.e. nutritional content of bologna)
5) Physical effects of the profession

Please keep us informed on your decision. Good luck!

 

[Pedosmakebank]

While your never "too old" there is definitely an age where I would say that it isn't worth it. For the dude that is almost 50 when he graduates, that would definitely not be worth it to me. Especially from a financial aspect. Heck, by the time he gets his loans paid off hes ready to retire.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

While your never "too old" there is definitely an age where I would say that it isn't worth it. For the dude that is almost 50 when he graduates, that would definitely not be worth it to me. Especially from a financial aspect. Heck, by the time he gets his loans paid off hes ready to retire.

Exactly - worth it to you. As long as a person is well informed about the cost of school, which pretty much anyone who decides to change careers in theri 30's and 40's does, then who cares what others think about their age when they start d-school. Not everyone cares about retiring in their 50's. I know dentists in their 70's who are just now beginning to think it may be time to retire. They have the money, but they like what they do. Not everyone does a career because they are in it to make bucks. Has anyone, who is against someone going to dental school because they are too old, thought that people don't care about the money and that the biggest factor is that they enjoy what they do? Job satisfaction to many people really does matter.

To the OP. Do what your heart tells you to do. You know the pros and cons about dentistry. You've heard the arguements from both sides. You know the financial aspects - both from the loan and from the salary side. Now, just go with your gut and do what you feel is best FOR YOU, not the haters here.

 

[Lethstang]

was giving credentials so she knew how to take the advice. dont hate.

 

[robpardee]

I am reading alot of information about financial concerns and quite frankly I feel that if you are comfortable with your financial situation you are not too old. I have a gentleman in my class that is 48 and he used to work as a mechanical engineer.

 

[rimon5693]

may be its gonna hard for you, but you can try

 

[Msmouth]

Thanks for all your thoughtful replies!

I live in NJ and will apply to UMDNJ....it's a state school. I can expect 150K minimum debt.
The only other semi nearby schools are Colombia and NYU but I don't think I could handle those commutes, but I might apply just to see if I can get into Colombia as a safety.

I've weighed the pros and cons and I keep focusing on yes I want to at least try to get in. If I don't get in, at least I tried and I'll have my bachelor's. I can always go back to hygiene.
I'm all about job satisfaction and having more ability and freedom to make decisions for my patients. I know I'll make good money and I don't need to become a millionaire.
The more and more I think about it, the more I want to own or co-own a practice. I first need to get through school and then I can see where I go from there.
I do like the idea of working for a state program to help pay off my loans. Has anyone here done that?
I'm getting ahead of myself, anyway.
As for doing my pre-req's while working, I can't. The only night courses offered are at the community school.
I also heard/read that you need to demonstrate that you can handle a large course load and still do well. So I plan to crank it out by spring 2012. I'm hoping to at least work Saturdays to help our financial situation.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this! I also don't mind the "haters", it's good to consider all the risk too.

 

[dentaldawg32]

Thanks for all your thoughtful replies!

I live in NJ and will apply to UMDNJ....it's a state school. I can expect 150K minimum debt.
The only other semi nearby schools are Colombia and NYU but I don't think I could handle those commutes, but I might apply just to see if I can get into Colombia as a safety.

I've weighed the pros and cons and I keep focusing on yes I want to at least try to get in. If I don't get in, at least I tried and I'll have my bachelor's. I can always go back to hygiene.
I'm all about job satisfaction and having more ability and freedom to make decisions for my patients. I know I'll make good money and I don't need to become a millionaire.
The more and more I think about it, the more I want to own or co-own a practice. I first need to get through school and then I can see where I go from there.
I do like the idea of working for a state program to help pay off my loans. Has anyone here done that?
I'm getting ahead of myself, anyway.
As for doing my pre-req's while working, I can't. The only night courses offered are at the community school.
I also heard/read that you need to demonstrate that you can handle a large course load and still do well. So I plan to crank it out by spring 2012. I'm hoping to at least work Saturdays to help our financial situation.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this! I also don't mind the "haters", it's good to consider all the risk too.

I'm sorry, but I need to make a few corrections. First of all, the school is Columbia not Colombia like the country. Secondly, a safety school is one at which you feel you will definitely get in. For you or pretty much anyone else, Columbia is not a safety. Lastly, applying to only one school is not a smart idea, especially if you are a borderline candidate.

 

[Rezdawg]

Going to go ahead and defend SeattleRDH here....for those that are saying that 180K is unheard of, you are wrong.

First year out:
I work at a mostly Medicaid clinic...I see between 15-25 patients per day. I get paid 30% of collections.

On a busy day, I produce 4000-4500.
On a slow day, I produce 2000.
On a more typical day, I produce 2700-3000.

Our collection rate is over 98%.

You guys can do the math...not that hard to make 180K over the course of the year....and I have classmates that take home about 1K a day.

Maybe we are lucky with our practices...maybe we are lucky with our locations...maybe BU gave us higher than average speed. Whatever the case is, it's not hard to make good money and pay off debt quickly.

I'd encourage anyone of any age to pursue dentistry if they truly want to do it...it's a great profession and our country is slowly going into a major shortage of dentists.

 

[fishyfishy]

Going to go ahead and defend SeattleRDH here....for those that are saying that 180K is unheard of, you are wrong.

First year out:
I work at a mostly Medicaid clinic...I see between 15-25 patients per day. I get paid 30% of collections.

On a busy day, I produce 4000-4500.
On a slow day, I produce 2000.
On a more typical day, I produce 2700-3000.

Our collection rate is over 98%.

You guys can do the math...not that hard to make 180K over the course of the year....and I have classmates that take home about 1K a day.

Maybe we are lucky with our practices...maybe we are lucky with our locations...maybe BU gave us higher than average speed. Whatever the case is, it's not hard to make good money and pay off debt quickly.

I'd encourage anyone of any age to pursue dentistry if they truly want to do it...it's a great profession and our country is slowly going into a major shortage of dentists.

Sorry to OT but wow, very interesting. I was just talking to a few dentists in California and many job offers here start at $400/day guaranteed. Are you guaranteed something low like that and just over produce every single day to hit your avg of $750?

 

[Rezdawg]

Sorry to OT but wow, very interesting. I was just talking to a few dentists in California and many job offers here start at $400/day guaranteed. Are you guaranteed something low like that and just over produce every single day to hit your avg of $750?

Yeah, Ive actually heard that Cali is tough...Ive had a good handful of classmates move out of Cali to work.

My min is actually the lowest of all my friends. I have a 400 min, but its rare for me to ever hit that. I mostly just over produce and hit my 700-900 range. I dont recall any of my other friends having a min as low as mine...I have a lot of friends in Texas, Washington, New York, and Illinois. The lowest I have heard from my core group is 500. In Texas, a good number of my friends have minimums around 600...more specifically, Houston.

In Texas, Medicaid pays very well, so it can definitely become profitable. I can go through the numbers, maybe in another thread, I dont want to hijack this one. But, I can tell you that I was happy to settle for 120K a year when I first graduated and that number is almost a joke at a decently run practice. I know that Cali and a few other spots may be tough though, so 120-150K is probably more common in these areas right out of the gates from dental school.