Am I way off base in thinking that the MCAT doesnt sound like it'll be THAT hard?

[geneexpression]

It seems like people talk about this test as if it were going to test their knowledge of advanced quantum mechanics sometimes.

I've been doing my MCAT prep for the subjects I've already taken the classes for, so I readily admit that I haven't touched anything related to O chem or Physics yet. Maybe those subjects will make the difference. That said, I'm not someone who comes from a science background at all or someone to whom chemistry comes naturally, and yet I usually get almost all of the practice problems I do correct. My background is in liberal arts--my undergrad degree is in English. I'm just not seeing what is so difficult about this test right now. It seems much more basic than my exams in my classes, and I don't attend a school known for its rigor by any means.

Do people just over-exaggerate the intensity of this test, are the practice problems I'm doing way easier than the types of problems on the actual test, or what?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dyspareunia]

It's not a difficult test, but it's difficult to get a very high score. For example, I just looked at my old MCAT practice exams online.

Composite 129/144 (90%) = 35. So, it depends on your goals. Getting 90% of questions right on a half-day exam isn't a simple task.

 

[geneexpression]

Asking a question about how the practice questions compare to the actual questions makes me an arrogant prick. Lol. I love SDN.

That puts things into way more perspective, dyspareunia. Thanks!

 

[BeachBlondie]

Doing practice problems and actually taking an MCAT are in two completely different planes of existence. You'll find that your days of plug-and-chug are long since over.

Try reading a 7-paragraph, painfully detailed account of a biochemical cascade you've never known to exist, then answer a question about it that requires 4 different levels of abstraction of your limited background knowledge..... only to find that there are two right answers, one of which is deemed "more correct". Oh, and by the way? Your 30-ish seconds are up. Tick-tock.

There is certainly a reason why the average MCAT score is just over a 25.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Asking a question about how the practice questions compare to the actual questions makes me an arrogant prick. Lol. I love SDN.

That puts things into way more perspective, dyspareunia. Thanks!

No, suggesting that the MCAT might be easy makes you come off as arrogant at best and ignorant at worst. It will rub the majority of people the wrong way since most people do not find it easy. Almost everyone says the concepts tested are very simple but as it was already said, that's not what makes the MCAT difficult.

 

[geneexpression]

No, suggesting that the MCAT might be easy makes you come off as arrogant at best and ignorant at worst. It will rub the majority of people the wrong way since most people do not find it easy. Almost everyone says the concepts tested are very simple but as it was already said, that's not what makes the MCAT difficult.

Well, I was ASKING if it is really as difficult as people make it out to be and not SAYING it was easy, but I'm sorry if I ruffled feathers.

 

[deleted380953]

Well, I was ASKING if it is really as difficult as people make it out to be and not SAYING it was easy, but I'm sorry if I ruffled feathers.

short answer, yes.

 

[geneexpression]

Okay, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time in my life where everyone around me acted like a test I found doable was the most difficult task they've ever encountered in their lifetime, so it's helpful to ask and gain perspective.

 

[mcloaf]

Different things are hard to different people. It will also depend on your background and goals. If you're good at standardized tests, had a strong and recent education in the subjects being tested, you're on summer break or in another situation where you don't have other distractions, and you're only shooting for 30+ it's not unreasonable to think it might not be super hard. Conversely if you're 4 years out of undergrad working to support yourself and maybe family, didn't learn the sciences well in the first place, and you're aiming for 35+ because of a low GPA then it's probably going to be tougher. There's a huge mix of abilities and situations and it's not possible to universally determine how hard the test will be for everyone.

Y'all keep dreaming. No practice test compares with what you will meet on that D-Day. Come back and tell me how easy it was after you take your exam. You arrogant prick

Dude, you have a Psalm in your signature. Slow your roll.

 

[geneexpression]

Different things are hard to different people. It will also depend on your background and goals. If you're good at standardized tests, had a strong and recent education in the subjects being tested, you're on summer break or in another situation where you don't have other distractions, and you're only shooting for 30+ it's not unreasonable to think it might not be super hard. Conversely if you're 4 years out of undergrad working to support yourself and maybe family, didn't learn the sciences well in the first place, and you're aiming for 35+ because of a low GPA then it's probably going to be tougher. There's a huge mix of abilities and situations and it's not possible to universally determine how hard the test will be everyone.


Dude, you have a Psalm in your signature. Slow your roll.

Thank you for your response. Makes perfect sense. My situation will be kinda strange. I have to take the Fall off due to financial concerns, so I'm planning on studying for the MCAT for 5 months straight between August and December and then taking it in January so I can take the current version. The catch? I will have to completely teach myself Organic Chemistry and Physics because I will not have taken those subjects yet. I don't want to let those five months go to waste, however, and I'm pretty self-taught in a lot of subjects anyway because I just learn the best that way. I'm not one of those people who get a lot of benefit out of lecture; I have to read the book and take notes at my own pace to understand the concepts, so I figure I stand a shot at self-teaching material. If I take practice tests after a couple of months of self studying and am performing poorly, then I'll consider waiting until a later date and taking the new MCAT.

My undergraduate GPA is a 3.95, and I'm considered a URM. Currently, my science GPA is a 4.0, but I do still have several science classes to complete. Can anyone give me an idea of what MCAT score I'd need to stand a solid chance?

 

[Czarcasm]

Thank you for your response. Makes perfect sense. My situation will be kinda strange. I have to take the Fall off due to financial concerns, so I'm planning on studying for the MCAT for 5 months straight between August and December and then taking it in January so I can take the current version. The catch? I will have to completely teach myself Organic Chemistry and Physics because I will not have taken those subjects yet. I don't want to let those five months go to waste, however, and I'm pretty self-taught in a lot of subjects anyway because I just learn the best that way. I'm not one of those people who get a lot of benefit out of lecture; I have to read the book and take notes at my own pace to understand the concepts, so I figure I stand a shot at self-teaching material. If I take practice tests after a couple of months of self studying and am performing poorly, then I'll consider waiting until a later date and taking the new MCAT.

My undergraduate GPA is a 3.95, and I'm considered a URM. Currently, my science GPA is a 4.0, but I do still have several science classes to complete. Can anyone give me an idea of what MCAT score I'd need to stand a solid chance?

I think it's great that you're approaching this test with confidence and a positive mentality. Unfortunately, that attitude is what most people lack. The truth is, as others have stated, the MCAT is no easy test which is indicated by the fact that the average is just above 25 -- and yet no one has ever scored a perfect 45 (even some of the brightest people I've met). At the end of the day, what the MCAT tests is relatively straightforward concepts in unusual situations. People who realize this are on the right tract to doing well. When people prepare for this test, they forget the second part of what I just said and instead spend an unusual amount of time trying to nail these concepts to the T. The concepts, with some practice are easily learned and understood. Unfortunately though, to do well, you must be able to assimilate what the passage is asking you to recall and being able to apply it to answering questions both quickly and accurately. Moreover, no matter how much you prepare content wise, there will always be something you learn with EVERY passage you take. This is why it's absolutely necessary to begin attacking passages as soon as possible. You need to get accustomed to the MCAT style of testing and work on enhancing your test taking skills through POE and other tactics (these are skills TBR emphasizes throughout their books). This is extremely important, no matter how well you did in your undergraduate courses. In fact, I've met a few people with 3.8+ GPA's bomb the MCAT simply because they didn't approach it like they should. Getting use to the testing style, combined with the depth of information needed for the MCAT (trying to remember all the key concepts) and the reading comprehension section (something most people struggle with) IS what makes this test so challenging.

My advice is to maintain the attitude you have. But do not make the mistake of aiming for perfection. Focus on understanding key concepts and immediately do as much practice as you can and move on. Have faith in your self. Everyone feels like there's always something they could know better -- but this is problematic, because if you drag out your studying for too long, you do so at the risk of forgetting some important concepts and this will begin to effect your score. This is why most people generally spend 3-4 months max for studying - just enough time to review everything.

As far is Organic and Physics is concerned, most people would recommend you take those classes before preparing for the MCAT. Those are perhaps the most useful classes TO take as they are extremely difficult to self-teach. Sometimes it helps to hear a professor explain a certain concept in a way that's more easily understood. If you can, take these classes this summer. Moreover, you're putting yourself at a major disadvantage. Most people struggle even with taking these classes. Do you really want the extra stress?

For what it's worth, I graduated a few years ago, so I didn't have this option. I self-taught myself both Organic and Physics, and while I'm by no means an expert, I am at least acquainted with the topics and should be able to atleast reason through most questions. HOWEVER, it requires a lot of diligence, patience, and hard work -- the MCAT is a difficult test to prepare for -- teaching yourself an exhaustive list of new topics will only exacerbate your energy and make things much more difficult for you. I definitely encourage you to take those classes asap, you won't regret it.

Don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or need some additional advice. I wish you good luck with your studies.

 

[geneexpression]

I think it's great that you're approaching this test with confidence and a positive mentality. Unfortunately, that attitude is what most people lack. The truth is, as others have stated, the MCAT is no easy test which is indicated by the fact that the average is just above 25 -- and yet no one has ever scored a perfect 45 (even some of the brightest people I've met). At the end of the day, what the MCAT tests is relatively straightforward concepts in unusual situations. People who realize this are on the right tract to doing well. When people prepare for this test, they forget the second part of what I just said and instead spend an unusual amount of time trying to nail these concepts to the T. The concepts, with some practice are easily learned and understood. Unfortunately though, to do well, you must be able to assimilate what the passage is asking you to recall and being able to apply it to answering questions both quickly and accurately. Moreover, no matter how much you prepare content wise, there will always be something you learn with EVERY passage you take. This is why it's absolutely necessary to begin attacking passages as soon as possible. You need to get accustomed to the MCAT style of testing and work on enhancing your test taking skills through POE and other tactics (these are skills TBR emphasizes throughout their books). This is extremely important, no matter how well you did in your undergraduate courses. In fact, I've met a few people with 3.8+ GPA's bomb the MCAT simply because they didn't approach it like they should. Getting use to the testing style, combined with the depth of information needed for the MCAT (trying to remember all the key concepts) and the reading comprehension section (something most people struggle with) IS what makes this test so challenging.

My advice is to maintain the attitude you have. But do not make the mistake of aiming for perfection. Focus on understanding key concepts and immediately do as much practice as you can and move on. Have faith in your self. Everyone feels like there's always something they could know better -- but this is problematic, because if you drag out your studying for too long, you do so at the risk of forgetting some important concepts and this will begin to effect your score. This is why most people generally spend 3-4 months max for studying - just enough time to review everything.

As far is Organic and Physics is concerned, most people would recommend you take those classes before preparing for the MCAT. Those are perhaps the most useful classes TO take as they are extremely difficult to self-teach. Sometimes it helps to hear a professor explain a certain concept in a way that's more easily understood. If you can, take these classes this summer. Moreover, you're putting yourself at a major disadvantage. Most people struggle even with taking these classes. Do you really want the extra stress?

For what it's worth, I graduated a few years ago, so I didn't have this option. I self-taught myself both Organic and Physics, and while I'm by no means an expert, I am at least acquainted with the topics and should be able to atleast reason through most questions. HOWEVER, it requires a lot of diligence, patience, and hard work -- the MCAT is a difficult test to prepare for -- teaching yourself an exhaustive list of new topics will only exacerbate your energy and make things much more difficult for you. I definitely encourage you to take those classes asap, you won't regret it.

Don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions or need some additional advice. I wish you good luck with your studies.

I appreciate the response and suggestions. Haha, interesting that you would say to keep up my confident attitude because I'm not really confident about my entire status as a pre-med at all. I've considered finding something else to do with my life several times because I had a really rocky introduction into science classes after formerly being an English major. I had no clue what in the world was going on in a lot of my classes because they seemed to assume we already knew a lot of stuff, and sometimes I still don't. I just can't be unrealistic about the fact that despite having a lesser understanding of scientific concepts than individuals who come from science backgrounds, I seem to do pretty well on practice problems. I'm not sure if that's because the practice problems are easier than those on the exam or what I can attribute it to.

Taking organic and physics in the summer isn't an option because I'm taking calculus and general chemistry II over the summer. I don't think my school even offers physics over the summer. That said, what I was thinking I could do if I had the time is look up online organic chemistry and physics lectures to watch during my study so it will kind of be like taking the courses, just without the ability to ask the professors questions. I'd have to investigate some, but I'm pretty sure I've heard there's at least one school that publishes recordings of lecture series.

I do realize having to learn two subjects puts me at a huge disadvantage. I wish I would have had the sense to get started sooner as post-bacc or, better yet, be pre-med as an undergrad, but unfortunately, I had no clue that the medicine/pre-medicine track even existed back then. I knew there were doctors obviously, but I apparently thought they materialized out of thin air lol. I didn't know how people went about becoming doctors. I didn't know until I researched it a year out of undergrad, and now I'm playing catch up.

 

[gettheleadout]

The truth is, as others have stated, the MCAT is no easy test which is indicated by the fact that the average is just above 25 -- and yet no one has ever scored a perfect 45 (even some of the brightest people I've met).

This is untrue. A composite score of 45 has been achieved several times over the last decade.

 

[mrh125]

Real talk it's hard for most people to get a 30 or more on the mcat (like 73% score a 29 our under). If this mindset helps you, keep it up, but real talk if you're like most you need to buckle down and study your butt off if you want a good score and know every topic on the aamc topics list intimately. if you're one of those people (SDN has a higher subset than most places) who get a 30+ on the mcat with minimal studying, mad props, but it takes time, a lot of energy, and effort.

 

[geneexpression]

This is untrue. A composite score of 45 has been achieved several times over the last decade.

That is what I thought I heard as well.

Real talk it's hard for most people to get a 30 or more on the mcat (like 73% score a 29 our under). If this mindset helps you, keep it up, but real talk if you're like most you need to buckle down and study your butt off if you want a good score and know every topic on the aamc topics list intimately. if you're one of those people (SDN has a higher subset than most places) who get a 30+ on the mcat with minimal studying, mad props, but it takes time, a lot of energy, and effort.

I do intend to study a lot. For five months to be exact, although I intend to also try to find a steady job during this time as well as work on ECs, so I won't exactly be locking myself in the library 12 hours a day for all five of those months. I was thinking that I'd realistically study 3-5 hours per day.

How hard is it to get into medical school with a score of, say, 28 or 29?

 

[mrh125]

That is what I thought I heard as well.


I do intend to study a lot. For five months to be exact, although I intend to also try to find a steady job during this time as well as work on ECs, so I won't exactly be locking myself in the library 12 hours a day for all five of those months. I was thinking that I'd realistically study 3-5 hours per day.

How hard is it to get into medical school with a score of, say, 28 or 29?

you want to get a 30 at least for MD medical schools. if you get a 30 your chances of getting in our way easier. I got a 29 on my first try (9/11/9) and I retook it because I talked to a lot of people who got 27-29 and they were insanely stressed the whole application period and had a lot of difficulties getting in. If you're ok with DO schools a 29 may work, but you want to give this test the best effort. A 30+ opens a lot of doors.

 

[MedOldAge]

I don't know why.........but I keep thinking about "ONEDIRECTION"..........hmmmm?

 

[Gauss44]

Response to title: I doesn't "sound" hard. Yet, it is hard. That's how AAMC makes their money, IMO. People postpone for a fee!

Bad to be us though. You tell a non-medical person about the test, and they almost always don't understand how difficult or time consuming it is - NO MATTER WHAT. Friends don't, bosses don't (unless their MD's or Phd's), landlords don't, etc.

 

[Czarcasm]

This is untrue. A composite score of 45 has been achieved several times over the last decade.

You could be right, but I've never seen it documented anywhere including the yearly composite breakdown's AAMC provides for previous years. Just wondering, where did you hear this from? If it's true, that's really interesting. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it.

 

[Czarcasm]

Taking organic and physics in the summer isn't an option because I'm taking calculus and general chemistry II over the summer. I don't think my school even offers physics over the summer. That said, what I was thinking I could do if I had the time is look up online organic chemistry and physics lectures to watch during my study so it will kind of be like taking the courses, just without the ability to ask the professors questions. I'd have to investigate some, but I'm pretty sure I've heard there's at least one school that publishes recordings of lecture series.

Yes, there are many, but careful not to use too many. Chad from Coursesaver is okay for Physics (not the best) ...his specialty is mainly chemistry related topics: biochem, organic, general chemistry. If his review was more comprehensive for Physics, I would show more support. Still, his explanations of certain concepts really do help, particularly topics most people new to physics struggle with, like kinematics. I used TPRH mainly with TBR in conjunction for review. TPR over simplifies the concepts which is great, but I feel TBR prepares you more. In hindsight, I wish I focused more on TBR (or NOVA, which also apparently is really good). I also did the entire EK 1001 Physics book, which in my opinion isn't worth the time -- too many unrealistic questions, either too easy or too difficult, and many with errors. TPRH Science Workbook is really good and representative of the MCAT.

 

[gettheleadout]

You could be right, but I've never seen it documented anywhere including the yearly composite breakdown's AAMC provides for previous years. Just wondering, where did you hear this from? If it's true, that's really interesting. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it.

Check the AAMC data for the past couple years, the 45 column for composite scores appeared this year with a visible shaded column, meaning a significant number of test takers (i.e. greater than zero at least) scored 45. Further, the Registrar of the UCF medical school has a verified account on SDN and has personally confirmed that they had an applicant in the late 2000's that had a 45.

It's just not the mythical impossibility a lot of test takers seem to think it is, even if it is rare.

 

[Jepstein30]

Doing practice problems and actually taking an MCAT are in two completely different planes of existence. You'll find that your days of plug-and-chug are long since over.

Try reading a 7-paragraph, painfully detailed account of a biochemical cascade you've never known to exist, then answer a question about it that requires 4 different levels of abstraction of your limited background knowledge..... only to find that there are two right answers, one of which is deemed "more correct". Oh, and by the way? Your 30-ish seconds are up. Tick-tock.

There is certainly a reason why the average MCAT score is just over a 25.

Respectfully, you're overrating the difficulty of the MCAT. I know you're exaggerating to make a point but still..

I mean.. if you can't see the parallels between practice problems and the real MCAT.. you're not doing the right type of practice problems (or in the right fashion).

The reason the average MCAT score is just over a 25 is because the test is scaled/designed for that to occur. Not because the test is naturally that difficult and that's how the average happened to fall out.

Don't get me wrong, it's no walk in the park.. but like any standardized test, it is beatable with the right approach. When 5+ past MCATs are released and you can break down the test and exploit it, it certainly is a test you can figure out how to get the best of. Natural intelligence may limit what the 'best of' equates to score-wise but I'd wager that the MCAT tests your test-taking skills way more than most people think. It's far from the content driven test it's made out to be.

 

[Jepstein30]

Check the AAMC data for the past couple years, the 45 column for composite scores appeared this year with a visible shaded column, meaning a significant number of test takers (i.e. greater than zero at least) scored 45. Further, the Registrar of the UCF medical school has a verified account on SDN and has personally confirmed that they had an applicant in the late 2000's that had a 45.

It's just not the mythical impossibility a lot of test takers seem to think it is, even if it is rare.

Pre-2003 (i think), the max verbal score was a 13-15. As in, if you got anywhere in that range, your score was reported as that range rather than the individual score. I'd figure the change to individual verbal scores decreased the number of 45s big time, though they still happen. 15s on the sciences are no easy feat but a 15 on Verbal is much tougher to attain IMO. I wonder how the new MCAT will change things again.

I personally think that past a 38/39, scores are basically the same. The difference between a 38 and a 45 is likely as little as 7 questions based on where you are at the scale. People can hit 38+ consistently on practice tests but rarely get the same scores on each subsection because its usually a point a question. I'm not sure how admissions views it but I'd figure that above a certain point (maybe a 40?) the "wow" factor is there regardless and the difference between scores non-existent. Unless its a 44/45, I'd guess. Maybe 38-42, 43-45.

 

[BeachBlondie]

Respectfully, you're overrating the difficulty of the MCAT. I know you're exaggerating to make a point but still..

I mean.. if you can't see the parallels between practice problems and the real MCAT.. you're not doing the right type of practice problems (or in the right fashion).

The reason the average MCAT score is just over a 25 is because the test is scaled/designed for that to occur. Not because the test is naturally that difficult and that's how the average happened to fall out.

Don't get me wrong, it's no walk in the park.. but like any standardized test, it is beatable with the right approach. When 5+ past MCATs are released and you can break down the test and exploit it, it certainly is a test you can figure out how to get the best of. Natural intelligence may limit what the 'best of' equates to score-wise but I'd wager that the MCAT tests your test-taking skills way more than most people think. It's far from the content driven test it's made out to be.

My hyperbole is showing...

 

[Jepstein30]

My hyperbole is showing...

"I know you're exaggerating to make a point"

but still, had to be said considering people may psyche themselves out after reading your post had they not already gone through the MCAT and realized it isn't nearly as hard as you made it out to be.

 

[mehc012]

Pre-2003 (i think), the max verbal score was a 13-15. As in, if you got anywhere in that range, your score was reported as that range rather than the individual score. I'd figure the change to individual verbal scores decreased the number of 45s big time, though they still happen. 15s on the sciences are no easy feat but a 15 on Verbal is much tougher to attain IMO. I wonder how the new MCAT will change things again.

I personally think that past a 38/39, scores are basically the same. The difference between a 38 and a 45 is likely as little as 7 questions based on where you are at the scale. People can hit 38+ consistently on practice tests but rarely get the same scores on each subsection because its usually a point a question. I'm not sure how admissions views it but I'd figure that above a certain point (maybe a 40?) the "wow" factor is there regardless and the difference between scores non-existent. Unless its a 44/45, I'd guess. Maybe 38-42, 43-45.

7 questions is a LOT to miss on a standardized test, though. I think that is what makes people skeptical going in. If I hadn't looked into the MCAT extensively I would read that and think "whoa, you can miss 7 questions on a standardized exam and still score in the top percentile?!?"

 

[Jepstein30]

7 questions is a LOT to miss on a standardized test, though. I think that is what makes people skeptical going in. If I hadn't looked into the MCAT extensively I would read that and think "whoa, you can miss 7 questions on a standardized exam and still score in the top percentile?!?"

Right, but that makes the test look HARDER than it really is.

To score a 30 (10-10-10), you can miss around 36 questions (based on AAMC 3's scale). There's 144 questions total so getting a 30 requires getting only 75% of the questions correct (or 3 out of every 4). Missing half of that gets you to 12-11-12 (35) and still only at 87.5% correct. You're already in the 90th percentile at a 35 so the percent correct lags behind the percentile (which says alot about the test and how its designed).

Note: Really there are fewer scored questions on the MCAT since there are experimental questions.. AAMC 3 probably takes this into account though so the percentage correct is probably similar.

 

[mehc012]

Right, but that makes the test look HARDER than it really is.

To score a 30 (10-10-10), you can miss around 36 questions (based on AAMC 3's scale). There's 144 questions total so getting a 30 requires getting only 75% of the questions correct (or 3 out of every 4). Missing half of that gets you to 12-11-12 (35) and still only at 87.5% correct. You're already in the 90th percentile at a 35 so the percent correct lags behind the percentile (which says alot about the test and how its designed).

Note: Really there are fewer scored questions on the MCAT since there are experimental questions.. AAMC 3 probably takes this into account though so the percentage correct is probably similar.

7 questions is a LOT to miss on an exam. Yeah, compared to other scores in the MCAT it's very few, but compared to other standardized tests? Try missing that many on the APs, or the SAT, where it's not uncommon to miss 1 or 0 questions.
Your explanation makes the MCAT sound super easy - I am NOT saying that it IS easy, just that "I can miss 36 questions and make my target goal" or "I can score a 75% and get my target goal" makes it SOUND easy.

 

[Jepstein30]

7 questions is a LOT to miss on an exam. Yeah, compared to other scores in the MCAT it's very few, but compared to other standardized tests? Try missing that many on the APs, or the SAT, where it's not uncommon to miss 1 or 0 questions.
Your explanation makes the MCAT sound super easy - I am NOT saying that it IS easy, just that "I can miss 36 questions and make my target goal" or "I can score a 75% and get my target goal" makes it SOUND easy.

Compare it to the SAT where 7 questions likely drops you out of the 700s for a subsection (if not two subsections). The percent correct on the SAT lags behind the percentile, as in.. you need MORE than X% right to get into the X% percentile. The opposite is true on the MCAT.

7 questions is not a lot to miss on a 144 question exam at all, that's 95% correct. You can't compare % correct across different tests (notice I'm comparing the % correct to percentile ratio), that just doesn't make any sense to do.

Sure, if you think getting 95% correct on a test is super easy, then the MCAT is super easy. I'm not saying its easy at all, though I do agree that to the uninformed observer.. that may appear true if you just try to compare it to the SAT or APs.

I don't get how my explanation makes anything sound easier. I literally took the stats from AAMC 3.. so if you think getting 7 questions wrong and scoring in the 99th percentile makes a test sound super easy.. then the MCAT is super easy. Same with getting 75% of questions correct and getting a 30.

Bottom line is.. don't go into the MCAT trying to get every single damn question right or else. You don't need to do that to get an elite score, let alone a great one. People psyche themselves out going in because they don't know every single topic or got X questions wrong on a practice test.. or they got to the first passage and don't know anything about that topic. You have to realize that the MCAT isn't a test that you need to perfect to get the score you want. The test is well-designed to yield a good range of scores among above average test takers, unlike the SAT where scores just bunch up. This means that you don't need the absolute perfection to get a top score like necessary on the SAT. It's really important to realize this going in because the test covers too much and is too hard to have the mentality that you need to master every single topic/question.

 

[txlonghorn2314]

Right, but that makes the test look HARDER than it really is.

To score a 30 (10-10-10), you can miss around 36 questions (based on AAMC 3's scale). There's 144 questions total so getting a 30 requires getting only 75% of the questions correct (or 3 out of every 4). Missing half of that gets you to 12-11-12 (35) and still only at 87.5% correct. You're already in the 90th percentile at a 35 so the percent correct lags behind the percentile (which says alot about the test and how its designed).

Note: Really there are fewer scored questions on the MCAT since there are experimental questions.. AAMC 3 probably takes this into account though so the percentage correct is probably similar.

I think it should be clarified that percentages do not matter on the real thing. The AAMC Fl scales are given as an estimate, but from several reliable sources I've spoken to, the scores are formulated 100% to fit the bell curve, so you are legitimately competing against all the test takers that day. You could miss 20 questions per section, but if everyone else in the country missed 21 or more per section, you'd be in the 40s. Same goes the other way around, you could get 90% of the questions right but still end up with a 26.

 

[mehc012]

I think it should be clarified that percentages do not matter on the real thing. The AAMC Fl scales are given as an estimate, but from several reliable sources I've spoken to, the scores are formulated 100% to fit the bell curve, so you are legitimately competing against all the test takers that day. You could miss 20 questions per section, but if everyone else in the country missed 21 or more per section, you'd be in the 40s. Same goes the other way around, you could get 90% of the questions right but still end up with a 26.

You are not competing against the other test-takers that day. The grading scale is set up beforehand from when those questions were used previously as 'experimental' questions.
My point is that the MCAT tends to allow you more missed answers than other tests we are used to. It's not an easier test, but it can easily look that way from the outside when you see that you can miss more than 1 or 2 questions and still end up with an upper-end score.

 

[txlonghorn2314]

You are not competing against the other test-takers that day. The grading scale is set up beforehand from when those questions were used previously as 'experimental' questions.
My point is that the MCAT tends to allow you more missed answers than other tests we are used to. It's not an easier test, but it can easily look that way from the outside when you see that you can miss more than 1 or 2 questions and still end up with an upper-end score.

I understand that to an extent, but how does the national average and distribution of scores stay so consistent. I mean, 30 or above is constantly considered betwen 75th and 80th percentile, and a 25 is always close to 50th? I'm clearly not a pro at the algorithm for MCAT scores, I just was told by an ad com that they were not a based strictly on "80% in this section is a 10" etc.

 

[txlonghorn2314]

@gettheleadout can you chime in on this? You're like the smartest MCAT SOB alive.

 

[Slave to the Game]

I understand that to an extent, but how does the national average and distribution of scores stay so consistent. I mean, 30 or above is constantly considered betwen 75th and 80th percentile, and a 25 is always close to 50th? I'm clearly not a pro at the algorithm for MCAT scores, I just was told by an ad com that they were not a based strictly on "80% in this section is a 10" etc.

You're mixing up the percentages. When they say a 30 is 75th-80th percentile, that means that 75-80% of test-takers scored below a 30 on the MCAT. When the adcom says that 80% of questions correct in PS is not a 10, they mean 80% of the questions correct does not necessarily correlate to a 10.

The scaled score out of 45 (15 each section) is based on how everyone else has performed on the same questions so that no matter what your raw score, the scaled score is set to a bell curve. That's the actual percent that matters.

 

[mehc012]

You're mixing up the percentages. When they say a 30 is 75th-80th percentile, that means that 75-80% of test-takers scored below a 30 on the MCAT. When the adcom says that 80% of questions correct in PS is not a 10, they mean 80% of the questions correct does not necessarily correlate to a 10.

The scaled score out of 45 (15 each section) is based on how everyone else has performed on the same questions so that no matter what your raw score, the scaled score is set to a bell curve. That's the actual percent that matters.

Right...the key point here, though, is that the performance they base things on is the performance of past test-takers on the problems while they were experimental.

 

[Jepstein30]

I think it should be clarified that percentages do not matter on the real thing. The AAMC Fl scales are given as an estimate, but from several reliable sources I've spoken to, the scores are formulated 100% to fit the bell curve, so you are legitimately competing against all the test takers that day. You could miss 20 questions per section, but if everyone else in the country missed 21 or more per section, you'd be in the 40s. Same goes the other way around, you could get 90% of the questions right but still end up with a 26.

Scores are scaled, not curved. Everyone on a single test day can get a 35 or a 10.

You're not competing against test takers on your test day. In theory, you're competing against all test takers that have ever taken the MCAT (since their scores are scaled on someone else's performance whose scores are scaled on another's performance and so on). The idea is that a 35 is a 35 no matter when you took the test. Though an individual's scores will vary based on the topics they were tested on.. the overall distribution is specifically designed not to vary much.

So you're actually incorrect in stating that you could miss 20 in a section and get a 40. The scales are preset and pretty rigid. You're not getting a 13+ in a section if you miss more than a few questions. Taking the % correct is probably a pretty valid way to judge performance on a section. I'd be surprised if a single % correct would yield more than 3 scores (I do think it could easily be one of two scores, though).

You are not competing against the other test-takers that day. The grading scale is set up beforehand from when those questions were used previously as 'experimental' questions.
My point is that the MCAT tends to allow you more missed answers than other tests we are used to. It's not an easier test, but it can easily look that way from the outside when you see that you can miss more than 1 or 2 questions and still end up with an upper-end score.

Yes, that makes it appear easier than it really is.. but I still do think that people treat the MCAT as a much harder exam than it really is. That's not really an issue for most.. but I see many, many people approaching the MCAT and other standardized tests with the sort of attitude that negatively impacts their score because they psyche themselves out from the beginning or their ideas of the test causes their nerves to get to the point where their performance is stunted.

I understand that to an extent, but how does the national average and distribution of scores stay so consistent. I mean, 30 or above is constantly considered betwen 75th and 80th percentile, and a 25 is always close to 50th? I'm clearly not a pro at the algorithm for MCAT scores, I just was told by an ad com that they were not a based strictly on "80% in this section is a 10" etc.

The test is designed really well. Plus, they use data they collect from previous test takers + with their scores based on more previous data. This is thousands of test takers a year. The AAMC assumes that those who take the test on any single day are identical to those who take the test on any other day (a fairly good assumption) so performances on experimental questions can be extrapolated as how all test takers over time would have scored. Well, to be fair.. the data is always fairly recent (~1-3 years) so the test is fluid enough that it can slowly evolve to be scored 'harder' or 'easier'

It is not strictly an 80% equating to a 10 but it is pretty damn close to it. It will vary but the test is designed so a 10 means a 10. Not "well this 10 was on June 2nd where it was easier to get a 10 and this 10 was on July 5th where few people got a 10". Think about it.. ADCOMs only see the scores, no other data. The test is made so there's no difference between scores so ADCOMs can compare two applicants based on their MCAT scores.

It's similar to the SAT but IMO, where that test fails is there is not enough of a difference between scores. The MCAT's scale is actually really well set up in that regard.

 

[Jepstein30]

You're mixing up the percentages. When they say a 30 is 75th-80th percentile, that means that 75-80% of test-takers scored below a 30 on the MCAT. When the adcom says that 80% of questions correct in PS is not a 10, they mean 80% of the questions correct does not necessarily correlate to a 10.

The scaled score out of 45 (15 each section) is based on how everyone else has performed on the same questions so that no matter what your raw score, the scaled score is set to a bell curve. That's the actual percent that matters.

I would actually add though.. that the test is designed so that the %s do correlate to the same scaled sections. They don't just say "These questions, no matter how the experimental scores are will be the MCAT on this date". I think of it as them sitting there with hundreds of questions with the performance data and literally filling in a grid with certain types of questions. For example, 10 questions where 70% of test takers got it right.. 5 questions where 90% got it right, and so on.

They don't really have sections that are truly more difficult on one day than another day. It can certainly feel like that because of your individual strengths and weaknesses but the key to this whole thing is that the test is designed to be able to be compared across test days. A 35 needs to be a 35.

 

[terra330]

It seems like people talk about this test as if it were going to test their knowledge of advanced quantum mechanics sometimes.

I've been doing my MCAT prep for the subjects I've already taken the classes for, so I readily admit that I haven't touched anything related to O chem or Physics yet. Maybe those subjects will make the difference. That said, I'm not someone who comes from a science background at all or someone to whom chemistry comes naturally, and yet I usually get almost all of the practice problems I do correct. My background is in liberal arts--my undergrad degree is in English. I'm just not seeing what is so difficult about this test right now. It seems much more basic than my exams in my classes, and I don't attend a school known for its rigor by any means.

Do people just over-exaggerate the intensity of this test, are the practice problems I'm doing way easier than the types of problems on the actual test, or what?

You're right, the material isn't very in depth. I'd say less in depth than most college classes on the subjects. But when you throw everything together, there is a huge amount of information to know. Most of us, no matter how hard we try, have bits and pieces that we don't fully integrate. And since the MCAT is a fairly short test, it is possible to be hit with a bunch of questions that stress our weaknesses without seeing any that play to our strengths. Even if we knew everything else really well, the final score wouldn't reflect that in those cases.

Another issue is that a lot of us don't take the test until well after learning the prerequisite info. I hadn't touched general chemistry or physics for 3 years by the time I took the mcat. Organic chemistry I did two years before and I remembered next to nothing -- had to teach it to myself again. The only science I was able to take for granted was biology, since the upper level classes make recalling the basics a trivial matter.