AMG Didn't match pathology 2016

[LadyMacGyver]

Hi,

I'm pretty depressed today. I'm an AMG and didn't match pathology and this was unexpected.


Here are my stats:

Prior to med school: honors degree in a physical science. 2 years of research and work as a TA (no publications however). I did write and present an "undergraduate thesis" as part of my honors college requirement. I was going to go into a PhD program for research, but decided it would be more advantageous and interesting to go to med school and become a pathologist.

Med school: Osteopathic. 2.5 gpa the first two years, 3.5 gpa during the last two years.

Board exams: Didn't take USMLE, only the osteopathic equivalent. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 1= exactly national average. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CK= exactly national average. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CS....I took that late in my fourth year. We'll get to that later.

Med school research: Osteopathic schools don't have research at all. I was able to secure a VSAS away elective during my fourth year at a big-name public institution and helped a path PI write an abstract that was accepted at the 2016 USCAP.

Interviews: I have no parental or significant other and was limited monetarily in where I could apply. I only applied to places within driving distance of where I am. I had 14-15 interview offers. I went on 10 of those interviews due to financial limitations. I got great feedback on every single one of my interviews, which included one Ivy League program and Duke. I was told "any program would be lucky to have you," and "you're a strong candidate." I ranked 7 places.

..........

In January before the match rank lists were due, I found the devastating news that I did not pass my osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CS. This was out of left field and unbelievable. I made the decision not to inform any of the programs that I had failed the CS, and did not release my failing score to them, hoping that such a thing could have been overlooked. I retook the CS after the match rank lists were due, and I am still waiting for my passing results.


Fast forward to this week. I did not match, I scrambled keeping my net very wide and only got two telephone interviews.

I'm basically ****ed.

I'm not sure if I didn't match simply because there were people better than me, because I didn't rank enough places, because my ranked places didn't have my passing CS score in hand before they assembled their rank lists.

I cannot imagine myself being anything other than a pathologist. The ONLY other medical specialty I can tolerate is psychiatry (I did very well on my psych rotation and actually do enjoy it somewhat), and I sent in psych applications during the scramble, but didn't hear anything.


My pathetic osteopathic school has no advisors for their students for situations like this. I'm trying to scour the internet to see what my best next step should be.

Here are the options I currently have for the immediate future:
1. ) do an osteopathic transitional year at the rural hospital I'm at starting this July. I can do an osteopathic psychiatry residency at the same place the following year, OR I can look for 1-year pathology research fellowships during my transitional year and start research after my transitional year ends. :s
2.) do a TWO-year pathology pre-residency fellowship (that I found entirely without the help of my school) starting this July and hope it helps my CV for when I reapply to path in two years.


The thought of being a general medical intern has me repulsed, largely because I hate most other medicine and I am scared my lack of enthusiasm will manifest itself in subpar patient care.

On the other hand, I live alone without any family or spouse support and I cannot be without a job starting this July.

What do you guys suggest I do in this situation?

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[Thrombus]

Pathology doesnt need any more pathologists. We are maxed out. Find another field. You are actually a winner.

 

[LadyMacGyver]

Pathology doesnt need any more pathologists. We are maxed out. Find another field. You are actually a winner.

I devoted 6 years to this endeavor. Thanks for your hyperbole.

 

[Thrombus]

You devoted no years yet to pathology. There is no hyperbole. Flee Pathology Now! There are no jobs no matter how you like it. You might as well pursue a professional sports career. Find another field of medicine and thrive!!!

 

[pathdoc16]

The job market might not be great, but I'd ignore Thrombus. He posts things like that all the time. If path is really what you want to do, I would say that finding a research year is your best bet or doing the two year path fellowship. Not sure that doing an osteopathic intern year would really help with your application the next year. Also, I would HIGHLY recommend taking your actual USMLEs. I can't say the one reason you didn't match, but not having taken the steps couldn't have helped.

Hope things work out for you!

 

[Ishie1013]

If the fellowship is paid, that's a good option. A post sophomore fellowship is usually only a year and pays about half a resident salary but it beats starving and it's a good way to get to know people, plus it saves you a year. You can keep calling around programs until the end of the scramble; some have unexpected departures and try that angle, though if you scramble into a terrible residency, you're already somewhat handicapping yourself in the future.

I'd also say go with try another specialty, but it sounds like you really hate clinical medicine. Psych was personally the one field I could never do (found it more depressing than peds heme onc even), so if you feel like you're truly going to be a bad clinician, then you owe it to yourself and your patients not to do that even if it means jumping into the job market abyss that is this field.

I'd reiterate taking the USMLEs, even if they are an expensive PITA, though take them seriously. A lot of programs will take DOs, but a lot won't without the USMLEs and since most DOs don't go into pathology, you find fewer residencies that are even really familiar with how to interpret your scores. My program was one of them. We loved our DOs, but no USMLE, no interview.

 

[Nilf]

I devoted 6 years to this endeavor. Thanks for your hyperbole.

No, no no. As Thrombus said, you did not devote any years to pathology yet. You didn't burn through any CME funding yet. Your chances to eventually land a residency in another specialty are excellent. Do not go into pathology, good jobs are rare to nonexistent. You would be much better pursuing another specialty.

 

[Thrombus]

Many are on here who state that they wish they would have listened to me. You are a medical student who knows nothing.

I self funded my education also with a tight budget and have practiced for the better part of a decade so perhaps maybe I should be ignored at one's own peril including yourself champ.

 

[univlad]

Are there any transitional year or prelim medicine spots to scramble into? Maybe there is one that also has an associated path department which you can then make friends and try to get into next year. You could an elective rotation possibly and maybe get a few letters. You may also use the year to try to pass the USMLE equivalents. Many program directors may have no idea what the osteopath scores mean.

If you are serious about path you'll want to go to good program that will land you connections for a job in the future.

 

[LADoc00]

I need more inputs:
1.) Place of birth, general ethnicity (White, hispanic, black, asian, east Indian is fine, I dont need to know you are 1/2 Puerto Rican and 1/2 Filipina) and religion (none is also good info if that applies but if any does apply mention it).
2.) English skills - ie English as your first language? Other languages spoken?
3.) Current location
4.) Desired final location(s)
5.) I assume you are a woman from your name?
6.) body habitus? ie well put together vs. average vs. let yourself go (if you are "stripper hot" mention that as well, makes a big difference in ways to approach this)
7.) Undergrad

then I will give opinion and advice. Some of the above sound like a B.S. but I need all these data points to be as custom as possible in my program.

thanks

 

[Zarniwoop]

Consider it a message from God.

I wish I got a signal from above those many years ago and went into a different field.

 

[dr4n6]

I did residency candidate interviews for several years, and I suspect that the problem you encountered lies in your interviewing skills. When I participated in residency selection, we invited candidates for interviews only after reviewing their grades/board scores. If you went on 10 interviews and still did not match, even at a program like Duke that only filled one out of five open slots, I think that you may just not have come across as sincere in your interviews. I could be wrong but am just offering this up as a suggestion. Good luck with finding a slot but would also suggest you heed the wisdom offered in this thread about a field with limited employment possibilities.

 

[alpinebrook]

May I ask why you didn't rank all the programs you interviewed at? Maybe there are bigger issues at play, as others are suggesting, so it wouldn't have mattered even if you ranked them... but advisors at my school could not stop emphasizing ranking every program you'd rather go to than not match. I am sorry you have/had lousy career counseling.

 

[path24]

You now know how a pathology fellow feels except you have a lot more options.

Pick another field. If you don't just remember this feeling. You will experience it again when struggling to find a job after multiple fellowships.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

Condolences.

I would e-mail the program directors and try to get them to give me an honest assessment of why I did not match. You are a below average applicant on paper (that's not a slam, half of the applicants are obviously below average), so it's possible that you aimed to high--you need to know whether you were beaten by better applicants or if there is truly a "do not touch" sign on your application that you are not aware of. Also, assess whether or not your match list had a "safety program" ranked at the bottom. If you did have a "safety program" and you failed to match there, that bodes ill for the future.

In the meantime I would take the internship. I've been a pathologist for a decade now and I was also of the mindset that no other specialty beside pathology was acceptable once upon a time. I can now honestly say that clinical medicine wouldn't have been so bad, and while I still enjoy the practice of pathology more than I think I would enjoy clinical medicine, anything that you do for a long enough period of time becomes "just a job". You may find out you don't hate clinical medicine as much as you thought you did (in which case you should strongly consider a clinical specialty. The pathology job issue is real. Physicians board certified in clinical specialties have no problem getting jobs no matter the program they came from. If you end up in a weak pathology program you will have jump on the fellowship carousel and you still may have issues finding employment--all the while your loans are compounding).

If you decide that it's pathology or bust, a good performance during an internship will be a plus. You can do a rotation with the hospital's pathologist who may be able to intercede with his/her former program. And there are many pathology program directors who did a clinical internship back in the olden days and consider it a valuable experience for a pathologist. You can apply outside the match and spin your internship as the experience that made you sure that pathology was the specialty for you. Applying outside the match also has the benefit of not competing with medical students. If you are a competitive applicant at a middle/bottom-tier program they will offer you a spot. If they don't, you'll know that you are not competitive. Finally, as someone who sits on pathology residency admission committees, I can tell you that good evaluations from physicians who watched you manage patients mean infinitely more than a Dean's Letter.

Most importantly the internship makes you employable. If you decide that you still want to try for pathology during internship, give yourself one more shot. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll be able to get a clinical job as an internship trained physician. A medical degree is worth nothing without a state license. If you fail again on your second try, accept that pathology is just not in the cards. Find a palatable specialty and get through it quickly so your loans can be attacked. The longer you are out of medical school and not in an internship or residency, the more you become damaged goods which endangers your ability to get any residency.

Do not let this story become yours:
http://notadoctorjustamd.blogspot.com/2015/03/not-doctor-just-m.html

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

deleted

 

[Psyxh1]

I am a 4th year medical student entering Psychiatry. No one seems to have read the OP's post carefully enough. The OP does NOT YET HAVE A PASSING LEVEL 2 PE SCORE(Step 2 CS equivalent)! OP, none of the programs you interviewed at were able to rank you on their lists even if they desperately wanted to as not having a passing PE or CS score means that programs are unable to rank you. Your application is probably solid for pathology considering you had 14 interviews. Make sure that when you do receive your score that it is a PASS and try applying again next year, possibly after doing a TRI this year.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I am a 4th year medical student entering Psychiatry. No one seems to have read the OP's post carefully enough. The OP does NOT YET HAVE A PASSING LEVEL 2 PE SCORE(Step 2 CS equivalent)!

Chill brah.

Most of the attendings on this board did residency before any clinical skills exam was required in medical school. I was in the first allopathic year group to have to take the clinical skills exam, and you most certainly could match without having passed the exam. I didn't even take the exam until April (I remember this distinctly cause I got ripped at a White Sox game after the exam and nearly came to blows with a bald Polack sporting a tattoo of the Chicago city flag on the back of his neck)--a month after I had already matched.

If things have changed or DO stuff is different than MD stuff and not having results truly is the reason for failing to match, then good for the OP because that is a simple fix. But if this the case for osteopathic schools, why aren't the administrations at DO schools pounding it into 4th year students heads to take the clinical skills exam as soon as the 4th year begins to avert the possibility of a match failure because of a clinical skills exam failure?

This is also another reason to call the program directors directly. If the lack of a clinical skills exam passing grade is truly the issue, the OP can ask program directors if they would be receptive to an application next year and what the program directors would prefer to see in the intervening year. Regardless, internship is the way to go. OP can't afford the chance that there is a second failure to match and he/she is left with no residency and no ability to independently practice medicine because he/she lacks a state license.

 

[PathoIogy]

Another 4th year med student year. Multiple programs that I interviewed at would tell applicants that they would not rank anyone without a passing clinical skills score. With so many interview invites, clearly the exam scores or type of exam is not an issue. One student in the year above me did not match in path residency last year due to this issue. I would of course suggest doing something pathology related next year (either research or post-sophomore year or something else) and I think that you will be perfect come next year.

 

[Psyxh1]

Chill brah.

Most of the attendings on this board did residency before any clinical skills exam was required in medical school. I was in the first allopathic year group to have to take the clinical skills exam, and you most certainly could match without having passed the exam. I didn't even take the exam until April (I remember this distinctly cause I got ripped at a White Sox game after the exam and nearly came to blows with a bald Polack sporting a tattoo of the Chicago city flag on the back of his neck)--a month after I had already matched.

If things have changed or DO stuff is different than MD stuff and not having results truly is the reason for failing to match, then good for the OP because that is a simple fix. But if this the case for osteopathic schools, why aren't the administrations at DO schools pounding it into 4th year students heads to take the clinical skills exam as soon as the 4th year begins to avert the possibility of a match failure because of a clinical skills exam failure?

This is also another reason to call the program directors directly. If the lack of a clinical skills exam passing grade is truly the issue, the OP can ask program directors if they would be receptive to an application next year and what the program directors would prefer to see in the intervening year. Regardless, internship is the way to go. OP can't afford the chance that there is a second failure to match and he/she is left with no residency and no ability to independently practice medicine because he/she lacks a state license.

Sorry for having words in capitals, I just wanted to convey that that was a key issue. In the current climate whether you are an MD or a DO, you need to have a passing clinical skills exam to match. I'm rather certain that there are no exceptions. Regarding the schools advising students to take the clinical skills exam as early as possible, they in fact do advise students to do so. However, it is up to the students ultimately to make the decision and schedule the exams. The OP took the clinical skills exam at an earlier date and had failed and thus was forced to repeat the exam. The real issue is the fact that it takes months(2-3 months???) to grade the clinical skills exam so that by the time one is informed of their failure, it doesn't leave much time to study, reschedule the exam and receive the passing score back in time.

 

[Psyxh1]

Funny how many white knights try to come to the OP's rescue after realizing it's a female and AMG D.O. If this was a male IMG from China or India, they'd probably be laughed off here...

I am in agreement with you regarding the general dislike, xenophobia, and bigotry displayed by the posters on the pathology forum(and those in other forums as well) towards applicants/physicians who are FMGs and how such an attitude is deplorable. However, I only came to the OP's rescue because it is a fact that without having a passing CS score, programs are unable to rank applicants. Considering the OP had 14 interviews, it is very likely that is the reason she didn't match.

 

[Mr Derp]

.

 

[deleted314957]

Hi,

I'm pretty depressed today. I'm an AMG and didn't match pathology and this was unexpected.


Here are my stats:

Prior to med school: honors degree in a physical science. 2 years of research and work as a TA (no publications however). I did write and present an "undergraduate thesis" as part of my honors college requirement. I was going to go into a PhD program for research, but decided it would be more advantageous and interesting to go to med school and become a pathologist.

Med school: Osteopathic. 2.5 gpa the first two years, 3.5 gpa during the last two years.

Board exams: Didn't take USMLE, only the osteopathic equivalent. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 1= exactly national average. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CK= exactly national average. Osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CS....I took that late in my fourth year. We'll get to that later.

Med school research: Osteopathic schools don't have research at all. I was able to secure a VSAS away elective during my fourth year at a big-name public institution and helped a path PI write an abstract that was accepted at the 2016 USCAP.

Interviews: I have no parental or significant other and was limited monetarily in where I could apply. I only applied to places within driving distance of where I am. I had 14-15 interview offers. I went on 10 of those interviews due to financial limitations. I got great feedback on every single one of my interviews, which included one Ivy League program and Duke. I was told "any program would be lucky to have you," and "you're a strong candidate." I ranked 7 places.

..........

In January before the match rank lists were due, I found the devastating news that I did not pass my osteopathic equivalent of Step 2 CS. This was out of left field and unbelievable. I made the decision not to inform any of the programs that I had failed the CS, and did not release my failing score to them, hoping that such a thing could have been overlooked. I retook the CS after the match rank lists were due, and I am still waiting for my passing results.


Fast forward to this week. I did not match, I scrambled keeping my net very wide and only got two telephone interviews.

I'm basically ****ed.

I'm not sure if I didn't match simply because there were people better than me, because I didn't rank enough places, because my ranked places didn't have my passing CS score in hand before they assembled their rank lists.

I cannot imagine myself being anything other than a pathologist. The ONLY other medical specialty I can tolerate is psychiatry (I did very well on my psych rotation and actually do enjoy it somewhat), and I sent in psych applications during the scramble, but didn't hear anything.


My pathetic osteopathic school has no advisors for their students for situations like this. I'm trying to scour the internet to see what my best next step should be.

Here are the options I currently have for the immediate future:
1. ) do an osteopathic transitional year at the rural hospital I'm at starting this July. I can do an osteopathic psychiatry residency at the same place the following year, OR I can look for 1-year pathology research fellowships during my transitional year and start research after my transitional year ends. :s
2.) do a TWO-year pathology pre-residency fellowship (that I found entirely without the help of my school) starting this July and hope it helps my CV for when I reapply to path in two years.


The thought of being a general medical intern has me repulsed, largely because I hate most other medicine and I am scared my lack of enthusiasm will manifest itself in subpar patient care.

On the other hand, I live alone without any family or spouse support and I cannot be without a job starting this July.

What do you guys suggest I do in this situation?

Clinical internship then psych and you are golden employment-wise.

 

[LADoc00]

Holy crap what a degenerate turn of the thread.
1.) Tavassoli is a very well put together woman given her age. Let's not go there actually posting pics and mentioning relatively famous pathologists by name.
2.) Stop with the "everyone who thinks FMGs with poor English skills and bad personalities should go somewhere else = Hitler" crap. Obviously not all FMGs are created equal and much of their damage is SELF IMPOSED so back up a bit. Also this has literally NOTHING to do with thread or the OP.

We appeared to have solved the main issue which is passing of some type of bullcrap clinical skills thing (I have honestly never heard of) and if she reapplies, she will likely get in. Do some other clinical thing for a year to make money and reapply. Simple as that.

And someone delete the pic and mention of Tavassoli FFS, we dont need her fellows seeing this thread and igniting WW3.

 

[yaah]

Misogyny and racism are not welcome on here. If you wish to jump to racist or sexist conclusions please take your posts elsewhere. If you have to ask whether something is racist or misogynist, then don't post it.

 

[yaah]

I missed taking the Step II CS (BS!) by a year. I am quite happy, but sympathize with everyone forced to take it. It's a terrible exam. In my opinion, this function should be the perview of medical schools. If med schools can't certify adequate clinical skills, they shouldn't be graduating students. The test is unnecessary and expensive. And I know some people fail because of random reasons that doesn't imply they would make a subpar doctor.

In regards to the rest of the OP, I am many years removed from applying, but don't many programs require you to take the USMLE exams even if you are a DO and are taking the equivalent? I had thought they did but maybe that changed. It made it harder for DO applicants which is part of the reason why DOs are more rare in pathology (plus I don't think there are DO training programs).