An Obstacle In My Way (Help)

[2PacClone23]

Well it’s me again. In case you have no clue about my journey to dental school, just look at all my threads. Anyway, to make things simple, here’s my story.

I graduated from a 4-yr California university, took a bunch of CC classes during summer for fun and all that, and have an AADSAS GPA of about 3.25, and a science GPA of about 2.7.

I took my DATs recently and I got a 23AA/23TS/22PAT. Complete breakdown is here.

I am in the middle of my Master’s program at another institution and hope to continue to raise my GPA and apply in June 2012 (I applied before in June 2010 before my DAT retake and obviously before the Master’s).
The Master’s program is Molecular Biology, 1 year, non-thesis. It’s just 3 quarters (Fall, Winter, Spring) and about 36 units in total (if you don’t count the seminars, it’s probably just like 30 units of pure academic classes).
Anyway, the problem that I have is that I got a 3.0 my fall quarter. This sucks. I got an email saying that I need to get above 3.0 overall or I might get kicked out (they’re not joking about this). So I’m like “whatever, I’ll do better Winter”. Fall Quarter was compromised of 3 classes for a grand-whopping total of 11 units.

My problem is that I just took my FIRST midterm for my WINTER class (one of them) and I got well below the average, while the median in the class was something like 88. I got like 70. It’s honestly pathetic. I don’t know what to do. I studied hard and tried my best. If I had an extra day, I would have done much better. They curve the “average” to a B in graduate school. It was 33% of my grade with 66% remaining in the final. Even if I get like a B- in this class, and let’s say a B+ in my other class and an A- in my 2-unit seminar class (they give letter grades for these), it’ll barely be above 3.0. Winter Quarter consists of only 9 units of letter-graded classes.

I’m freaking out because what if I get a C in the class? I’ll be kicked out! They don’t even accept grades lower than a B- or else you have to take the class over. I’m freaking out because this program was supposed to showcase my awesomeness and show the dental schools that I can do it. It was supposed to have its own “graduate GPA” or something like a 3.5+ which would look MUCH better compared to my 3.25 undergrad AADSAS GPA as well as my 2.7 AADSAS undergrad science GPA.

I have no backup. This WAS my backup! I can only pray to God and email my professor and beg for a compromise. Maybe she’ll drop the midterm grade and only count my final as my TOTAL grade. I have no idea. I haven’t received the grades for my other classes (the midterms, I mean for Winter Quarter).
I can’t just be getting straight B’s. I have to get A’s!

Even if I managed to get like a 4.0 spring quarter (I'll be taking 11 units) and bring the overall GPA to something like a 3.1, and then apply in June 2012 with my 23/22/22 DAT score, and with my nearly 600 hours of assisting hours, and apply to Western, USC, UCLA, UCSF, UNLV, NYU, Boston, UoP, ASDOH, Midwestern, what are my chances?

I’m already pulling my hair out. Someone please help . I’m sick of having these uphill battles.



UPDATE #2:

I went through Excel, calculating EVERYTHING; here it is:

Undergraduate:
AADSAS/Sci/BCP
3.15/2.85/2.64

Graduate (projection):
3.3/3.3/3.3

Undergrad + Graduate:
3.15/2.91/2.70

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[crax]

I read the last paragraph. solid DAT , and 3.1 is not the worst it could be, especially if you happen to have an upward trend. id be confident to land some interviews if i applied early

 

[Double Bonded]

Kill it this semester and the rest of your masters. Don't give up now.

You owned the DAT and you've come this far. You're so close and if you can just move that GPA up a little more, it would make a world of difference in terms of interviews and acceptances.

A 3.1 plus the 23/23/22 in addition to those 600+ assisting hours will make you a good candidate.

How is your sGPA going to be affected?

 

[Sunspear]

If my stats/situation (edit: I have a 3.14 BCP; almost identical DAT; strong upward trend grade-wise; lots and lots of volunteering) are any similar, then I think you're in a very good position to be successful next cycle (if you apply). I would maybe recommend to try to come up with a way to tactfully explain any academic shortcomings in your personal statement? I think acknowledging them and then saying what you've done to improve can say a lot about your character.

 

[molar3]

where is the "upward" trend people are talking about? op got a 3.0 in the 1st semester of grad level courses, what is that? a B, B- range? and now hes stuggling to maintain a 3.0 to stay in the program.......am i missing the upward trend?! if youve taken ds related classes in ur masters (like immuno, or w/e else) and havnt done great in them, along with a not so stellar ug record, im confused how this is impressive to adcoms.
2pacclone , why didnt u postbacc instead to raise the 2.7 ug gpa, to a higher 3.0+ gpa that way?
i hope you pull your gpa up and stay in your program, and finnish strong at this point, not much else u can do......

 

[2PacClone23]

This might be random, but looking at this guy's predents profile gives me nightmares.

http://predents.com/index.php?page=user&user_id=8188

His postbacc GPA is killer and his DAT is pretty identical to mine and he got in nowhere!

 

[2PacClone23]

If my stats/situation (edit: I have a 3.14 BCP; almost identical DAT; strong upward trend grade-wise; lots and lots of volunteering) are any similar, then I think you're in a very good position to be successful next cycle (if you apply). I would maybe recommend to try to come up with a way to tactfully explain any academic shortcomings in your personal statement? I think acknowledging them and then saying what you've done to improve can say a lot about your character.

I sure hope so!

 

[white fang]

This might be random, but looking at this guy's predents profile gives me nightmares.

http://predents.com/index.php?page=user&user_id=8188

His postbacc GPA is killer and his DAT is pretty identical to mine and he got in nowhere!

Maybe he only did 1 semester of post-bac or maybe he has a crime or academic dishonesty on his record. Maybe he wrote a bad PS. Maybe someone wrote a bad LOR for him.

There is no way to know, so don't stress about it!

 

[2PacClone23]

I hope so. The last thing I want is to waste away this year and not get in

 

[2PacClone23]

Anyone one else want to help a homie out?

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

You can't change what has happened, like that midterm grade. If you freak out excessively, it'll only cause problems. Figure out what you can do with your study habits (office hours, another method, etc) so that you can study effectively next time and get a better grade hopefully. It's not that you're not good at the material, because your DAT scores look pretty good. So you know your sciences, at least IMO.

Can you talk to a pre dental advisor or someone who has more expertise in dental admissions? They will probably be more help than most of the people here.

Good luck.

 

[HeyCharlie]

This might be random, but looking at this guy's predents profile gives me nightmares.

http://predents.com/index.php?page=user&user_id=8188

His postbacc GPA is killer and his DAT is pretty identical to mine and he got in nowhere!

He was probably a putz at the interview. Don't worry.

 

[2PacClone23]

If I get less than a B in these graduate courses, they kick me out of the program. That would look horrible!

 

[hamburger90]

There is no failure except in no longer trying! DO NOT GIVE UP... I wish i was in your shoes with those DAT scores... you are a role model for some of us that want to go to dental school... Therefore; that makes you a good candidate for dental school! Burn your eyelashes and jump the hurdle! Good LUCK!!!

 

[BKelly734]

2Pac,

I have been reading your posts for a while now, you can almost say I'm a fan. Have you been preparing for these grad school classes as well as you possiblly can? Do you study along the way of the course instead of just cramming? You can definitely do this, you just need to crank it out!

-BK

 

[lnngu]

2pac,
The more things change, the more they stay the same. You don't need me to tell you how inflated masters GPAs are. In fact, didn't you select your program based on how easy it was supposed to be?
You need to stop looking for the easy way out. If you can't handle grad school, you're going to get killed in D-school. I used to think that it'd be all downhill after getting through the door, but I'm learning that getting accepted is the easy part.
Anyway, good job on the DAT, but take care of business and don't get kicked out. You can't handle another red flag.

 

[2PacClone23]

2Pac,

I have been reading your posts for a while now, you can almost say I'm a fan. Have you been preparing for these grad school classes as well as you possiblly can? Do you study along the way of the course instead of just cramming? You can definitely do this, you just need to crank it out!

-BK

Thanks. I didn't know I had SDN fans.

I'll try my best! But damnit, it's stressful to say the least!

 

[yappy]

2pac you really need to do better. You are down one test in one course; you still have time to pull it around. Something you said in your original post was concerning to me. You said that you think you could have done "so much better if you had one more day". To me that means you're not staying up with the material. You need to set a goal that you're test ready 1 wk prior to the exam. That way for 1 wk you can make the knowedge innate and make the weak areas strong. You should never feel like you could use one more day.

Time to get organized & study more than ever. It's not too much longer till you apply.

Thanks. I didn't know I had SDN fans.

I'll try my best! But damnit, it's stressful to say the least!

 

[2PacClone23]

I will try damnit!

 

[youknowthedrill]

Its time to remove all electronic distractions from your life and study like crazy. Turn off the TV, stop wasting time on your computer, and leave your smart phone at home. Go find a quiet corner of the library and make yourself study. You can do this, you just need to get focused.

 

[arjay]

Its time to remove all electronic distractions from your life and study like crazy. Turn off the TV, stop wasting time on your computer, and leave your smart phone at home. Go find a quiet corner of the library and make yourself study. You can do this, you just need to get focused.

get off SDN, and get in the books brotha!
SDN forums don't have the answer your situation needs.

 

[2PacClone23]

Let's just stay positive. Hopefully everything will work out.

 

[2PacClone23]

So guys,

Let's assume I finish with like a 3.1 GPA (Master's) 3.2 undergrad GPA, 3.0 Master's Science GPA and 2.7 undergrad GPA.

Obviously, my DATs stay the same with:

23 - Bio
24 - Chem
23- Ochem
22 - PAT
22 - RC
21 - QR


Add in the fact that I've assisted, shadowed, volunteered for nearly 600 hours or so (I'll count later)


What would you say are my chances at Western, ASDOH, USC, and the CA schools, NY, Boston, etc etc

 

[wired202808]

So guys,

Let's assume I finish with like a 3.1 GPA (Master's) 3.2 undergrad GPA, 3.0 Master's Science GPA and 2.7 undergrad GPA.

Obviously, my DATs stay the same with:

23 - Bio
24 - Chem
23- Ochem
22 - PAT
22 - RC
21 - QR


Add in the fact that I've assisted, shadowed, volunteered for nearly 600 hours or so (I'll count later)


What would you say are my chances at Western, ASDOH, USC, and the CA schools, NY, Boston, etc etc

You need to compile your GPA into totals. Schools aren't going to isolate your GPAs. What's going to be the total GPA and the total sGPA?

 

[mike ashley]

Less than 3.5 in a masters program is the final nail in the coffin. In addition, this isn't even a true special masters in the sense that you aren't taking classes side by side with medical students.

I'm not sure about grade inflation in masters programs but I think one of the reasons why so many people get 3.8+ in these masters programs is because they realize this is their last shot.

A 3.1 is borderline from being booted from most masters programs (including special masters programs). If you're borderline from being booted from a masters program, you're going to get eaten alive in dental school. The real benefit of a masters program and more so for a special masters program is that some schools are known for replacing ugrad with grad gpa in the sense that the grad gpa gets weighted more. However, a 3.1 in a masters isn't going to cut it.

Don't think a 23 (on the third attempt) and a 3.1 ish in a masters is good enough but who knows. Worst case scenario you may have to enroll in an actual special masters program.

 

[2PacClone23]

Less than 3.5 in a masters program is the final nail in the coffin. In addition, this isn't even a true special masters in the sense that you aren't taking classes side by side with medical students.

I'm not sure about grade inflation in masters programs but I think one of the reasons why so many people get 3.8+ in these masters programs is because they realize this is their last shot.

A 3.1 is borderline from being booted from most masters programs (including special masters programs). If you're borderline from being booted from a masters program, you're going to get eaten alive in dental school. The real benefit of a masters program and more so for a special masters program is that some schools are known for replacing ugrad with grad gpa in the sense that the grad gpa gets weighted more. However, a 3.1 in a masters isn't going to cut it.

Don't think a 23 (on the third attempt) and a 3.1 ish in a masters is good enough but who knows. Worst case scenario you may have to enroll in an actual special masters program.

Well that's a mood-killer.

 

[thewobblytooth]

The only way you're going to know if this will work out is if you finish your masters program and apply to d-school. Then you come back on the SDN and let us all know what happened. Everyone's situation is different and your experiences will also have a bit of weight. Also, you need to apply to schools that you'll be competitive at. Newer schools that have just opened like Western, MWU-IL, etc. I think there are a few more opening every year. Look at the stats of schools you think would seriously consider you because your stats aren't as impressive as other non-traditional students that are applying in the same pool as you. You'll have to sell yourself on other skill sets through your essays and interviews.

Either way, don't let the people on the internet get you down. I think everyone has a fair shot at d-school if they really wanted it. My friends are in the same boat as you and will be attending d-school for 2012.

 

[Ghostface17]

You need to focus on one thing and thats killin the masters program. Worrying unnecessarily whether certain stats will get you into dental school is currently moot. Regardless of stats you will not get in unless you show you can handle advanced science classes aka ace the masters. I was in a masters, and I understand it's hard work but if you study every single day and don't cram it is definitely possible to do well in these type of programs. Focus on this masters and at the end, you will not need to worry if certain credentials will get you into dental school because you will have killed the masters and will have bettered your chances.

 

[2PacClone23]

I talked to a few of my friends at Temple and USC and they said my chances are pretty good at interviews. Let's pray they're right.

I will still try my best and try to destroy this master's, god willing.

 

[wired202808]

I talked to a few of my friends at Temple and USC and they said my chances are pretty good at interviews. Let's pray they're right.

I will still try my best and try to destroy this master's, god willing.

again masters isnt the only thing thats gonna be looked at. theyre just gonna look at the total so if you dont kill the masters you're screwed but theyll still rank you on the oGPA

 

[2PacClone23]

Well they're in dental school so I'll take their word for it. I'll just do my best, sir.

 

[white fang]

Well they're in dental school so I'll take their word for it. I'll just do my best, sir.

That is the right attitude. Your friends in D-school at these particular schools will have the most accurate information.

 

[wired202808]

Well they're in dental school so I'll take their word for it. I'll just do my best, sir.

right but that has nothing to do with the fact that schools will review the oGPA.

 

[white fang]

again masters isnt the only thing thats gonna be looked at. theyre just gonna look at the total so if you dont kill the masters you're screwed but theyll still rank you on the oGPA

right but that has nothing to do with the fact that schools will review the oGPA.

I don't think your information is right for many schools. According to my adviser schools will calculate your undergrad GPA, post-bacc GPA, masters GPA and be able to look at all these separately and together, both science and non-science. They will even calculate by semester to see trends. They do this for my committee letter, and I highly doubt my committee letter has a more sophisticated method for distinguishing between candidates than a dental school.

 

[wired202808]

I don't think your information is right for many schools. According to my adviser schools will calculate your undergrad GPA, post-bacc GPA, masters GPA and be able to look at all these separately and together, both science and non-science. They will even calculate by semester to see trends. They do this for my committee letter, and I highly doubt my committee letter has a more sophisticated method for distinguishing between candidates than a dental school.

I dont trust advisors... they dont work at dental school X, they're often misinformed, and they dont give the best advice. I applied this year and got in. I have a very low masters GPA from non-science courses, if they looked at the Masters courses I wouldn't be admitted into any school in the world. When I did my postbacc those classes went into the ugrad pool of credits. You're right about how the GPAs are divided, but since schools report total GPAs on their websites and to the ADEA, it would only make sense that schools cared most about oGPA. And I believe that's the case. My post-bacc was a 3.9 but I still didn't get into a lot of schools with super high GPA requirements.

PS not all applicants use committee letters when applying to schools.

 

[2PacClone23]

I dont trust advisors... they dont work at dental school X, they're often misinformed, and they dont give the best advice. I applied this year and got in. I have a very low masters GPA from non-science courses, if they looked at the Masters courses I wouldn't be admitted into any school in the world. When I did my postbacc those classes went into the ugrad pool of credits. You're right about how the GPAs are divided, but since schools report total GPAs on their websites and to the ADEA, it would only make sense that schools cared most about oGPA. And I believe that's the case. My post-bacc was a 3.9 but I still didn't get into a lot of schools with super high GPA requirements.

Well that's why I gotta apply to HIGH DAT schools duh!

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

I don't think your information is right for many schools. According to my adviser schools will calculate your undergrad GPA, post-bacc GPA, masters GPA and be able to look at all these separately and together, both science and non-science. They will even calculate by semester to see trends. They do this for my committee letter, and I highly doubt my committee letter has a more sophisticated method for distinguishing between candidates than a dental school.

 

[wired202808]

Well that's why I gotta apply to HIGH DAT schools duh!

Instead of wasting time on this thread you should go an calculate your total GPA, total science GPA and BCP. Then determine where you even have a shot. Don't rely on high DAT schools like Columbia, since you don't even know your overall GPAs, you might be below their cutoff and still get rejected.

 

[yappy]

lol. Wired always gets owned for giving out poor advice/misinformation. I get the feeling he would be a crack up to know in person. The guy always spreading rumors that are not true and making decisions based off of crack-pot theories...

Instead of wasting time on this thread you should go an calculate your total GPA, total science GPA and BCP. Then determine where you even have a shot. Don't rely on high DAT schools like Columbia, since you don't even know your overall GPAs, you might be below their cutoff and still get rejected.

 

[white fang]

I dont trust advisors... they dont work at dental school X, they're often misinformed, and they dont give the best advice. I applied this year and got in. I have a very low masters GPA from non-science courses, if they looked at the Masters courses I wouldn't be admitted into any school in the world. When I did my postbacc those classes went into the ugrad pool of credits. You're right about how the GPAs are divided, but since schools report total GPAs on their websites and to the ADEA, it would only make sense that schools cared most about oGPA. And I believe that's the case. My post-bacc was a 3.9 but I still didn't get into a lot of schools with super high GPA requirements.

PS not all applicants use committee letters when applying to schools.

So your viewpoint is that they don't look at masters GPA's? Really? That's the point you are stressing here?

You probably got rejected from high GPA schools for a variety of reasons like your DAT, overall GPA like you said, personal statement, luck of draw, your masters GPA that they looked at (duh) etc.

Why even add in your PS about not all applicants use committee letters? You think I don't know that? Really?

Why don't you use common sense and realize different schools have different criteria for evaluating applicants and some will weigh different GPAs differently.

It seems like every time you are wrong about something you find something trivial to be right about that doesn't add to the discussion.

 

[wired202808]

You probably got rejected from high GPA schools for a variety of reasons like your DAT, overall GPA like you said, personal statement, luck of draw etc.

Why even add in your PS about not all applicants use committee letters? You think I don't know that? Really?


It seems like every time you are wrong about something you find something trivial to be right about that doesn't add to the discussion.

it seems you just like to argue against everything I write. Obv no one knows for sure what schools truly look at, neither you nor I. We're all just discussing opinions. No need to huff and puff.

 

[wired202808]

lol. Wired always gets owned for giving out poor advice/misinformation. I get the feeling he would be a crack up to know in person. The guy always spreading rumors that are not true and making decisions based off of crack-pot theories...

Yup im here to spread rumors thats what its all about.. its called thinking logically and making educated guesses dont be a hater... hating is bad

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

I dont trust advisors... they dont work at dental school X, they're often misinformed, and they dont give the best advice. I applied this year and got in. I have a very low masters GPA from non-science courses, if they looked at the Masters courses I wouldn't be admitted into any school in the world. When I did my postbacc those classes went into the ugrad pool of credits. You're right about how the GPAs are divided, but since schools report total GPAs on their websites and to the ADEA, it would only make sense that schools cared most about oGPA. And I believe that's the case. My post-bacc was a 3.9 but I still didn't get into a lot of schools with super high GPA requirements.

PS not all applicants use committee letters when applying to schools.

Wired, I'm not gonna put you down for bad advice like a lot of posters on the pre dental forum seem to do (or at least try to) but...

I would trust advisors more than I would trust random posters on SDN. It's unfortunate if you had a bad experience(s) with your own advisor(s) but this is not the case with everyone. My own advisor helped me out tremendously as well as other people who went to her for help.
To tell someone that advisors are a bad source of information is inaccurate. Obviously not every advisor is a dim wit and it should be encouraged that people reach out to their own advisors and form their own opinion.

In my case, my undergrad advisor was more informative than the ds admissions person I was in contact with a particular well respected school.

 

[white fang]

it seems you just like to argue against everything I write. Obv no one knows for sure what schools truly look at, neither you nor I. We're all just discussing opinions. No need to huff and puff.

I wouldn't argue against everything you write if you didn't talk out your butt every other post and give people misinformation.

What are you gaining by posting on these boards? You have your acceptance, and spreading poor information is benefiting no one. Why don't you move on?

 

[wired202808]

I wouldn't argue against everything you write if you didn't talk out your butt every other post and give people misinformation.

What are you gaining by posting on these boards? You have your acceptance, and spreading poor information is benefiting no one. Why don't you move on?

Yes I spread misinformation, I do it on purpose I hope thats the response you wanted. You can add me to your ignore list if I bother you. That's all I can really tell you.

 

[wired202808]

Wired, I'm not gonna put you down for bad advice like a lot of posters on the pre dental forum seem to do (or at least try to) but...

I would trust advisors more than I would trust random posters on SDN. It's unfortunate if you had a bad experience(s) with your own advisor(s) but this is not the case with everyone. My own advisor helped me out tremendously as well as other people who went to her for help.
To tell someone that advisors are a bad source of information is inaccurate. Obviously not every advisor is a dim wit and it should be encouraged that people reach out to their own advisors and form their own opinion.

In my case, my undergrad advisor was more informative than the ds admissions person I was in contact with a particular well respected school.

Well its 50/50... to make the assumption that your advisor was awesome and hence everyone else's is awesome too.. is also quite a strength. There's enough threads on here about people complaining how their advisor screwed them over. Plus you also have to believe that this "advisor" is spilling this info and not someone whos just trying to prove a point.

 

[white fang]

Wired - this is why I have a problem with your posting. You state your opinions as facts even though you realize they are not. You do realize how many people read these posts and could be steered wrong by you, correct?

again masters isnt the only thing thats gonna be looked at. theyre just gonna look at the total so if you dont kill the masters you're screwed but theyll still rank you on the oGPA

You made this statement as a fact.

it seems you just like to argue against everything I write. Obv no one knows for sure what schools truly look at, neither you nor I. We're all just discussing opinions. No need to huff and puff.

You say you are giving an opinion and you don't know what schools are truly looking at.

Yup im here to spread rumors thats what its all about.. its called thinking logically and making educated guesses dont be a hater... hating is bad

Reinforcing that you are guessing and passing off your information as fact.


Now do you understand my beef with you?

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

Well its 50/50... to make the assumption that your advisor was awesome and hence everyone else's is awesome too.. is also quite a strength. There's enough threads on here about people complaining how their advisor screwed them over. Plus you also have to believe that this "advisor" is spilling this info and not someone whos just trying to prove a point.

But your making assumptions that advisors are useless. I just used an example to disagree with your assumption. I don't what is "enough" regarding the threads about horrible advisors. It's really for people to find out themselves. Some advisors are great. Some are bad. Some are in the middle.

PS: Not an advisor lol

 

[wired202808]

Wired - this is why I have a problem with your posting. You state your opinions as facts even though you realize they are not. You do realize how many people read these posts and could be steered wrong by you, correct?



You made this statement as a fact.



You say you are giving an opinion and you don't know what schools are truly looking at.




Reinforcing that you are guessing and passing off your information as fact.


Now do you understand my beef with you?

Everyone who has normally reading comprehension understands that we're talking about opinions and not facts. I'm not going to put a disclaimer when the whole point of forums is to discuss opinions.

And if you have some beef or problems then dont point it my way. I'm not interested in arguing.

 

[wired202808]

But your making assumptions that advisors are useless. I just used an example to disagree with your assumption. I don't what is "enough" regarding the threads about horrible advisors. It's really for people to find out themselves. Some advisors are great. Some are bad. Some are in the middle.

PS: Not an advisor lol

The assumption door swings both ways... either an adviser is useful or their not. We'll never know.. arguing about it is like arguing about colors. That's why I prefer to do my own research and not rely on someone else to give me the info that I should be able to google myself.