An Open Letter to Pre-Med ER Volunteers (from a Non-Trad Pre-Med ER Tech)

[music2doc]

I did both as well and found scribing more challenging. But i worked at a large trauma center in NorCal so maybe my exp are unique? 10 charts at once while your doc is pissed after 2 code blues is a lot of stress! Give the scribes some respect man!

Sorry, I actually really like our scribes and they do a ton. I was more defending my job than anything else there.

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[MrBird]

seriously, music2doc, you need to get off the high horse.

Also, scribes learn far more than ER techs and have a way tougher job. I should know. I've worked as both for 2 years.

You are right about how premeds shouldn't volunteer in hospitals, though. There is no reason for anyone to volunteer where they're not actually needed. The whole concept of "clinical volunteering" is bs in my opinion. Most of this will include no more than some form of interacting with patients at best, but most often doing some type of menial labor (not just at the hospital, but at most clinics as well). Even if the premed is lucky, and they land some kind of legit volunteering gig, I gaurantee you it doesn't have jack s**t to do with anything a doctor does. So this whole concept of "getting your feet wet" and learning whether or not you really want to go into medicine via volunteering is utterly stupid. There's also nothing altruistic about most of these clinical volunteering activities anyway. You're not doing it because you want to actually help nurses (who don't really need your help to begin with), you're doing it because people like LizzyM or Catalysk say you should (which is also bullcrap).

TL;DR It's stupid for LizzyM or SDN mods to suggest more hours of clinical volunteering. It contributes nothing to you as a person nor does it demonstrate anything about how well you'll do in medical or as a physician. Plus, being a scribe is way more useful than being an ER tech if you want to go to med school.

 

[MrBird]

Case in point, just last night one of you turned down a job making Triage packets for our Triage tech. Now, I understand you probably didn't think that sounded exciting, but that tech came to me and told me she felt like you didn't want to help and were, in fact, "avoiding her." Guess how often the ER staff talked to you the rest of the night after she mentioned that. We didn't. But we sure did talk about you.

TL;DR: avoid hospital volunteering, especially in the ED

This makes me so glad that I was one of those "lazy premeds" that didn't do the crap that those high and mighty techs wanted me to do. Those students are so unimportant that you have to talk **** about them behind their backs? Really? Did it ever occur to you that they don't want to do your chores because it has nothing to do with their career goals whatsoever and they just want to collect as many hours as they can so they can legitimately put it on their AMCAS? Just let them be for goodness sake.

Most of them don't actually WANT to be there. And those that have nothing better to do are likely not interesting enough to get past an interview for med school anyway.

 

[MrBird]

I don't disagree, volunteers should be performing every task asked of them. However, I think this is an n=1 experience. I think it's useless to vent on here when you should be motivating your crappy volunteers. I went around for an entire day shredding recycled paper at the hospital I volunteered at with a smile. Most of the kids volunteering there bust ass for the prospect of making it as a physician. To think that a lot us pre-meds stand around awkwardly and are insubordinates is absurd, we are trying our best and paying our dues. Your closing sentence...

TL;DR: avoid hospital volunteering, especially in the ED

is downright discouraging. The purpose of this volunteering is decide if medicine is right for us and interact with future colleagues, not to be someone else's slave. As you move throughout your career you will deal with people that are not qualified or half-ass it in effort, and you deal with it and move on.

First of all, choosing to spend an entire day shredding paper ANYWHERE is stupid. If I were on an adcom I'd question your decision-making ability based on that description of your hospital volunteer work to begin with.

Also, if you think the purpose of "this volunteering," if you want to call paper shredding volunteering, is somehow providing you with valuable experience "interacting with future colleagues" I'm very worried about what you think a day in the life of a physician is actually like.

And if you are even PARTIALLY deciding if medicine is right for you based on anything you've seen in hospital volunteering, you might as well not apply to med school because you will be sorely disappointed. No actually, apply to med school, as I'd like to see students like that try to climb out of a 250k dollar hole all the while screaming "WHY did I do this? I really thought this was for me! I loved clinical volunteering!"

 

[tkim]

This is sort of a funny thread. I work at a community ER, so no trauma-rama, just bread and butter ER work here. We have college volunteers as we are surrounded by multiples colleges. They do a lot of room flipping and bringing food to patients. I absolutely appreciate them.

I once had to suture a 10 inch laceration and I grabbed a volunteer to cut the sutures as I tied them to take less time in the room. You would have thought I asked him to perform surgery with me. Wait, actually, I did. He looked stunned.

Heh.

 

[MrBird]

This is sort of a funny thread. I work at a community ER, so no trauma-rama, just bread and butter ER work here. We have college volunteers as we are surrounded by multiples colleges. They do a lot of room flipping and bringing food to patients. I absolutely appreciate them.

I once had to suture a 10 inch laceration and I grabbed a volunteer to cut the sutures as I tied them to take less time in the room. You would have thought I asked him to perform surgery with me. Wait, actually, I did. He looked stunned.

Heh.

LOL.So that uh, confirms what for that volunteer? That he knows how to use scissors? That he can handle looking at blood? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's going to find a way to work that 20 minute experience into a superficial personal statement about how that moment let him know he wanted to dedicate his life to clinical medicine. But what inherent value does such an experience provide?

Nothing.

EDIT: actually the part where you mention the room flipping and bringing food to patients would count as valuable experience for someone who may be interested in hotel hospitality.

 

[generator]

If you want to be allowed to observe interesting EM procedures, you're going to have to build relationships with the right people. Those people are not yet accessible to you. You need to get through me first.

 

[DentalDawg55]

Its music2doc and mipp0:

But in all seriousness - leave the volunteers alone. By your story, you encountered some pre-med volunteers who didn't want to help you do your job. First of all, hardly believe your version that they flat out said "no way" and left. They could have been on the way to do other things, or needed to leave. You sure sound annoying and power-trippish, even as a tech...Lord save us from you as you move up the totem poll.

 

[Fedekz]

Here are some cliffs

OP is a ER tech and wants to feel important
OP pushes all scut work to ED volunteers, because he is next lowest on the totem pole.
OP then complains that people who may have NEVER been to an ER before other than as a patient doesn't know what to do for 8 hours, and stands around and looks confused.

Please high and mighty sir, come ride with me in the ambulance one day so I can write about how useless you are, and how you stood around and didnt know how to operate a manual stretcher.

You should print out your wall of text and frame it so everyone knows your a dick.

Your the kind of person who discourages people from volunteering.

 

[MrBird]

Here are some cliffs

OP is a ER tech and wants to feel important
OP pushes all scut work to ED volunteers, because he is next lowest on the totem pole.
OP then complains that people who may have NEVER been to an ER before other than as a patient doesn't know what to do for 8 hours, and stands around and looks confused.

Please high and mighty sir, come ride with me in the ambulance one day so I can write about how useless you are, and how you stood around and didnt know how to operate a manual stretcher.

You should print out your wall of text and frame it so everyone knows your a dick.

Your the kind of person who discourages people from volunteering.

hahahahha. OP are you reading this? hahahhahaha

 

[mipp0]

Strong work boys

 

[dd128]

ugh, Music, you really need to take a step down. We are all super impressed by how much ER power you wield. Can't wait to see how you handle your clinical years in the exact same position as everyone you've just described in "your" ER.

 

[MrBird]

Haters gonna hate You can rationalize our stories however you want, but that doesn't change reality. Give us "non-trads" some credit, since we got into multiple medical schools this cycle.

And I've never had a power trip as a tech. The volunteers who worked hard, I let them apply splints, taught them how to work EKGs, etc. Like music2doc said, if you earn our trust, we'll let you do some cool stuff. Some volunteers rock it man, some just suck. I can imagine which one you fall into

your high horse. get off it.

 

[DentalDawg55]

.

 

[mauberley]

Did it ever occur to you that they don't want to do your chores because it has nothing to do with their career goals whatsoever and they just want to collect as many hours as they can so they can legitimately put it on their AMCAS? Just let them be for goodness sake.

They still signed up to do a job. Shouldn't they keep up their end of the bargain?

 

[tkim]

LOL.So that uh, confirms what for that volunteer? That he knows how to use scissors? That he can handle looking at blood? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's going to find a way to work that 20 minute experience into a superficial personal statement about how that moment let him know he wanted to dedicate his life to clinical medicine. But what inherent value does such an experience provide?

Nothing.

Actually, he didn't. Most people don't know how to cut sutures. Do you? He does now. He knows what types of sutures and suture materials are used for closing surface lacerations. That one needs to cut perpendicular to the suture to ensure even 'tails'. That you don't cut sutures at the knot because you need to leave some 'tail' in order to grasp them when it comes time to remove them. That you should count the number of 'throws' or knots the person placing the sutures usually places before saying 'cut', and by anticipating this, will move the scissors out of the surgical field when not needed, and anticipate when to bring the scissors back into the field so as to cut efficiently and not cause delay.

He learned aseptic technique, and the correct way to put on sterile gloves.

I bolded the '20 min' because it is painfully obvious that you have never witnessed suturing, because anyone who has had to sew an 10 inch lac knows it takes the better part of an hour to do with assistance and longer while suturing alone.

He learned all this. Have you?

Whether or not he's going to incorporate this into a PS is up to him, but it beats flipping rooms all day, don't you think?

EDIT: actually the part where you mention the room flipping and bringing food to patients would count as valuable experience for someone who may be interested in hotel hospitality.

I don't know whether you got into med school without having to volunteer, or you did and you had a negative experience. If it was the latter, sorry man. If it was the former - well, good for you, you must be a superstar to get into med school without slogging through that check box. How superior you must feel not to have to do what other people do to get into med school. Am I misreading you? Because you certainly sound pretty smug about putting other people's volunteers experiences down.

 

[mipp0]

your high horse. get off it.

Relax. It was just a job to get through college, and I helped out some volunteers, and got to pay the bills. Truth is, there are sucky volunteers who feel entitled. There are also some really humble, down to earth ones who everyone loves.

Just do what needs to be done with a smile. Be a team player, and most of the time, people will notice and let you do some cool stuff.

 

[mipp0]

I've met a lot of cool non-trads in my class, but then there are you guys - the kind who think because of their path through other fields, and THEN discovering medicine, that they are "holier than thou" and look down on traditionals. HIGH HORSES - GET OFF

I'm actually not a non-trad Calm down mister. Straight outta college here...

 

[DentalDawg55]

I'm actually not a non-trad Calm down mister. Straight outta college here...

You just said "give us non-traditionals some credit..."

 

[mipp0]

actually, he didn't. Most people don't know how to cut sutures. Do you? He does now. He knows what types of sutures and suture materials are used for closing surface lacerations. That one needs to cut perpendicular to the suture to ensure even 'tails'. That you don't cut sutures at the knot because you need to leave some 'tail' in order to grasp them when it comes time to remove them. That you should count the number of 'throws' or knots the person placing the sutures usually places before saying 'cut', and by anticipating this, will move the scissors out of the surgical field when not needed, and anticipate when to bring the scissors back into the field so as to cut efficiently and not cause delay.

He learned aseptic technique, and the correct way to put on sterile gloves.

I bolded the '20 min' because it is painfully obvious that you have never witnessed suturing, because anyone who has had to sew an 10 inch lac knows it takes the better part of an hour to do with assistance and longer while suturing alone.

He learned all this. Have you?

Whether or not he's going to incorporate this into a ps is up to him, but it beats flipping rooms all day, don't you think?




I don't know whether you got into med school without having to volunteer, or you did and you had a negative experience. If it was the latter, sorry man. If it was the former - well, good for you, you must be a superstar to get into med school without slogging through that check box. How superior you must feel not to have to do what other people do to get into med school. Am i misreading you? Because you certainly sound pretty smug about putting other people's volunteers experiences down.

+1

 

[sector9]

seriously, music2doc, you need to get off the high horse.

Also, scribes learn far more than ER techs and have a way tougher job. I should know. I've worked as both for 2 years.

You are right about how premeds shouldn't volunteer in hospitals, though. There is no reason for anyone to volunteer where they're not actually needed. The whole concept of "clinical volunteering" is bs in my opinion. Most of this will include no more than some form of interacting with patients at best, but most often doing some type of menial labor (not just at the hospital, but at most clinics as well). Even if the premed is lucky, and they land some kind of legit volunteering gig, I gaurantee you it doesn't have jack s**t to do with anything a doctor does. So this whole concept of "getting your feet wet" and learning whether or not you really want to go into medicine via volunteering is utterly stupid. There's also nothing altruistic about most of these clinical volunteering activities anyway. You're not doing it because you want to actually help nurses (who don't really need your help to begin with), you're doing it because people like LizzyM or Catalysk say you should (which is also bullcrap).

TL;DR It's stupid for LizzyM or SDN mods to suggest more hours of clinical volunteering. It contributes nothing to you as a person nor does it demonstrate anything about how well you'll do in medical or as a physician. Plus, being a scribe is way more useful than being an ER tech if you want to go to med school.

LizzyM and Catalystik never said that clinical volunteering is required. They have said that clinical exposure is required. It just so happens that clinical volunteering is the easiest way for premeds to get clinical exposure, but being a scribe, ER tech, etc is another great pathway to gain exposure.

If you want to argue about the utility of clinical volunteering, that's fine. I did clinical volunteering before applying and didn't find it to be very useful. However, when I'm trying to help other premeds in WAMC threads, I still point out deficiencies in their clinical exposure because I know it's a part of what adcoms are going to look for.

The short version of what I'm trying to say: Clinical volunteering is a relatively pain-free way for premeds to fill the required clinical exposure aspect of their application. Don't confuse "recommending so that they can get in" with "recommending because that's the only way they will ever be a good doctor"

 

[mipp0]

You just said "give us non-traditionals some credit..."

I said "non trads" (with quotes) kinda sarcastically, but not in a mean way. It's just funny how some pre-meds think just because you work in the hospital you are nontraditional or took some time off (like you ) Seriously man, I'm a very laid back guy : ) I loved working in the hospital, and if you've volunteered before, you should know the techs are always the chillest guys.

 

[MrBird]

Actually, he didn't. Most people don't know how to cut sutures. Do you? He does now. He knows what types of sutures and suture materials are used for closing surface lacerations. That one needs to cut perpendicular to the suture to ensure even 'tails'. That you don't cut sutures at the knot because you need to leave some 'tail' in order to grasp them when it comes time to remove them. That you should count the number of 'throws' or knots the person placing the sutures usually places before saying 'cut', and by anticipating this, will move the scissors out of the surgical field when not needed, and anticipate when to bring the scissors back into the field so as to cut efficiently and not cause delay.

He learned aseptic technique, and the correct way to put on sterile gloves.

I bolded the '20 min' because it is painfully obvious that you have never witnessed suturing, because anyone who has had to sew an 10 inch lac knows it takes the better part of an hour to do with assistance and longer while suturing alone.

He learned all this. Have you?

Whether or not he's going to incorporate this into a PS is up to him, but it beats flipping rooms all day, don't you think?




I don't know whether you got into med school without having to volunteer, or you did and you had a negative experience. If it was the latter, sorry man. If it was the former - well, good for you, you must be a superstar to get into med school without slogging through that check box. How superior you must feel not to have to do what other people do to get into med school. Am I misreading you? Because you certainly sound pretty smug about putting other people's volunteers experiences down.

1) Yes
2) the "20 minutes" was rhetorical in my intentionally exaggerated, condescending rant
3) Yes
4) Yes, almost anything is better than flipping beds, don't you think?
5) You're not misreading me. I did volunteer. Except my volunteer experiences were actually substantial and most of it didn't take place in a hospital (where I think most premeds today would agree are usually a waste a time in general other than to get that box checked, as you would say). And I do mean to put down other people's volunteer experiences because I believe if they truly wanted to learn about whether or not medicine is for them, they should shadow instead. Or if they really want to show they're altruistic, don't you think those hundreds of hours spent in an ER would be better spent at a homeless shelter or a hospice?

 

[drizzt3117]

When I was on ED sub-I a few months ago I would pull volunteers into rooms w/ me if I wasn't too busy, or go over EKGs and/or imaging with them. Residents/attendings would do the same. We certainly didn't wait for a tech's recommendation that we do that, lol. I don't think it's that uncommon.

I agree that that is why you're there, but in most EDs, you're not going to get to that point so easily. What I am saying is accept what you are asked to do and work your way in. If you turn down the scut when you are asked to do it, we're less likely to ask you to help in other ways later. It's a balance. Don't let us walk on you (be assertive) but don't refuse less enjoyable activities because you'll likely alienate us and that will hurt you. On your first shift, you have no reputation to stand on so you cannot expect us to help you out without you doing something in return.

At least in my ED, you would have gotten shut down and out-competed pretty much instantly if you'd tried to step in like that and shadow as a new volunteer. You're basically competing with residents/interns (usually relatively few of these), med students, PA students, techs, scribes, nursing students, EMT students, and more senior volunteers -- in that pecking order -- so it's unlikely you would have so easily gotten the "okay".

 

[beanbean]

The good points in the OP's original post unfortunately got missed due to some ego and perceived arrogance.

If you are volunteering in the ED, be proactive and enthusiastic. If you don't like the experience or the tasks assigned; don't come back. Find another clinical experience that you enjoy.

I take issue with the OP's statement that the volunteers must "get by" him to get to the docs. As the attending, I introduce myself to all volunteers. No one needs the permission of an ED tech to talk to other members of the team.

ED techs and scribes are in general hard-working and intelligent people. Neither job is better than the other or harder than the other, but they do require different skills and abilities.

To the poster who felt the volunteer "learned he knew how to use scissors" when he helped tkim repair a 10 inch lac. I hope you read tkim's response and learned something about teaching others.

 

[tkim]

1) Yes
2) the "20 minutes" was rhetorical in my intentionally exaggerated, condescending rant
3) Yes
4) Yes, almost anything is better than flipping beds, don't you think?
5) You're not misreading me. I did volunteer. Except my volunteer experiences were actually substantial and most of it didn't take place in a hospital (where I think most premeds today would agree are usually a waste a time in general other than to get that box checked, as you would say). And I do mean to put down other people's volunteer experiences because I believe if they truly wanted to learn about whether or not medicine is for them, they should shadow a physician instead. Or if they really want to show they're altruistic, don't you think those hundreds of hours spent in an ER would be better spent at a homeless shelter or a hospice?

As mentioned upstream, hospital volunteering is the most convenient and accessible means to get clinical exposure for most premeds. I don't see it as a way of proving altrusim, since, if you are volunteering *anywhere* in order to check a box or write a PS, you are doing it for personal gain.

Homeless shelters are not clinical, hospice is pretty heavy for people who are considering medicine, and PA threads abound by people having trouble finding docs to shadow.

So you had meaningful a volunteer experience - good for you. For others, hospital volunteering may be their only option. Try not to **** on it.

 

[MrBird]

In these days, if hospital volunteering is seriously their only option, then they're ****ting on their own app.

 

[mipp0]

As mentioned upstream, hospital volunteering is the most convenient and accessible means to get clinical exposure for most premeds. I don't see it as a way of proving altrusim, since, if you are volunteering *anywhere* in order to check a box or write a PS, you are doing it for personal gain.

Homeless shelters are not clinical, hospice is pretty heavy for people who are considering medicine, and PA threads abound by people having trouble finding docs to shadow.

So you had meaningful a volunteer experience - good for you. For others, hospital volunteering may be their only option. Try not to **** on it.

Dr. tkim, I love your posts.

BTW, may I please have 8 mg of Dilaudid for my 12/10 lumbar back pain? The only way I can describe it is..."excruciating"

 

[tkim]

In these days, if hospital volunteering is seriously their only option, then they're ****ting on their own app.

Care to fill us in on what your volunteering experience was? So that other people can partake in the rich experience and be able to pooh-pooh the pedestrian candy-striper position that the commoners have available.

 

[tkim]

Dr. tkim, I love your posts.

BTW, may I please have 8 mg of Dilaudid for my 12/10 lumbar back pain?

You get toradol, tylenol, or motrin - whichever you happen not to be allergic to, then shown the door. If you're allergic to all three - see that door?

 

[MrBird]

I volunteered at a hospice for first 2 years of college and at a women's center for abused and often homeless women in the city for 6 months. I then worked as an ER tech for a year. Then worked as a scribe at the same community ER for another year. These experiences were exponentially more valuable/meaningful that clinical care extender b.s. you get in hospital volunteering. Doesn't take much thinking outside the box to find opportunities, that is if you're actually interested in doing meaningful things.

 

[tkim]

I volunteered at a hospice for first 2 years of college and at a women's center for abused and often homeless women in the city for 6 months. I then worked as an ER tech for a year. Then worked as a scribe at the same community ER for another year. These experiences were exponentially more valuable/meaningful that clinical care extender b.s. you get in hospital volunteering. Doesn't take much thinking outside the box to find opportunities, that is if you're actually interested in doing meaningful things.

So I guess what it boils down to is that what *you* did as volunteer work you consider meaningful but other other volunteer work you view as less meaningful, or worthless.

Good luck.

 

[MrBird]

The good points in the OP's original post unfortunately got missed due to some ego and perceived arrogance.

If you are volunteering in the ED, be proactive and enthusiastic. If you don't like the experience or the tasks assigned; don't come back. Find another clinical experience that you enjoy.

I take issue with the OP's statement that the volunteers must "get by" him to get to the docs. As the attending, I introduce myself to all volunteers. No one needs the permission of an ED tech to talk to other members of the team.

ED techs and scribes are in general hard-working and intelligent people. Neither job is better than the other or harder than the other, but they do require different skills and abilities.

To the poster who felt the volunteer "learned he knew how to use scissors" when he helped tkim repair a 10 inch lac. I hope you read tkim's response and learned something about teaching others.

Actually, why don't you tell me what I was supposed to learn about teaching others?

 

[sector9]

I volunteered at a hospice for first 2 years of college and at a women's center for abused and often homeless women in the city for 6 months.

It's actually a lot less important to have non-medical volunteering hours than people on here want to think. My friends and I (8 of us) were all accepted to medical school the previous cycle with 0 hours of non-medical volunteering. Think about it. What does non-medical volunteering really say about you anyway that medical volunteering doesn't already?

You just blew my mind. Someone lying on SDN? We need a thread about that.(http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=887579)

 

[MrBird]

So I guess what it boils down to is that what *you* did as volunteer work you consider meaningful but other other volunteer work you view as less meaningful, or worthless.

Good luck.

Wow, sorry I just can't believe a practicing physician believes spending 4 hours a week mostly changing the sheets on beds and giving water to patients is supposed to be valuable/meaningful volunteer work for a premed that's deciding whether or not he/she wants to go into medicine.

Interesting...

 

[music2doc]

The good points in the OP's original post unfortunately got missed due to some ego and perceived arrogance.

If you are volunteering in the ED, be proactive and enthusiastic. If you don't like the experience or the tasks assigned; don't come back. Find another clinical experience that you enjoy.

I take issue with the OP's statement that the volunteers must "get by" him to get to the docs. As the attending, I introduce myself to all volunteers. No one needs the permission of an ED tech to talk to other members of the team.

ED techs and scribes are in general hard-working and intelligent people. Neither job is better than the other or harder than the other, but they do require different skills and abilities.

To the poster who felt the volunteer "learned he knew how to use scissors" when he helped tkim repair a 10 inch lac. I hope you read tkim's response and learned something about teaching others.

Thanks for at least recognizing those.

The arrogance was meant to be funny, not taken seriously. Apparently, I failed to convey that.

The "get by" comment was more of a let us help you type of thing. Of course a volunteer can introduce him/herself to a doc, but chances are you'll get more of a response if someone who knows that doc introduces you. Otherwise, you probably won't find them standing still long enough to meet you. Your best bet is for one of the techs, scribes, nurses, or registrars to introduce you because they typically know when the best time to do so is. My point was one of "let us help you and here's how you can get us to want to help you."


Honestly, if a volunteer just wants to stand around and do nothing, that's their own business. I simply feel bad for anyone who does that thinking someone will eventually grab them and save them from their boredom. I posted this as an over-the-top warning to those who volunteer in the ED that they need to be proactively engaging the staff if they want to have a good experience. I see all too many "I had a bad ER volunteering experience" posts around here, so I thought I'd offer the other side. This is more what I was hearing from my colleagues than my own view. I would have liked to involve our volunteers more but, really, there wasn't much besides clerical work for them to do that night.




I think the world of scribes and I have worked as one. Unfortunately, the job now (at least in our ED) has been stripped to little more than a desk job. Everything clinical has been removed by the law (i.e., no orders, etc.). All they really get to do is keep track of the doctor's patient load for them. Our docs now get the joy of wheeling around gigantic computer carts because their scribes aren't allowed to do anything. If scribes elsewhere get to do more then that is awesome! Per our scribe director, the laws here now (as of 1/1/2012) prevent the docs from really utilizing their scribes as they used to. Our scribes now pretty much all say they feel useless. It was an awesome job, though, and maybe they'll eventually figure out better ways of utilizing scribes....

 

[idontcaureuknow]

This thread has gotten kind of funny. I got 100 hours at a local hospital's ED in about a year. While I certainly fell into the "Well, i'll skip cause of school" crowd, I would do anything asked when I showed up. Initially the hospital I volunteered at allowed HS students to volunteer in the ED but that changed over the last 4 months of my time there. Apparently now they don't allow volunteers to work in the ED, citing immaturity and inability to handle tasks (I'd like to think I did a good job haha).

Over the year, at various points I was in charge of visitor passes, listing walk-ins to be triaged, packing IV kits, making patient pamphlets, restocking hand sanitizers, ect. I am quite happy with the experience. I remember one shift where I was sent into a backroom and made pamphlets for four hours, and while this was boring I didn't complain. On another shift while being in charge of the visitor passes it must have been the day to yell at ED staff and volunteers, the two best ones from that day:

Guy's adult daughter came by ambulance: "Sorry sir, you cannot go back there at this time." - "I need to go back there" -"Sorry sir, I cannot send you back there right now, she has not been loaded into the system yet, I will let you know as soon as I can" - "Go kill yourself!" *walks away* He later came back to me and apologized a few hours later.

Guy's mom came by ambulance: "I NEED TO GO BACK THERE NOW!!!!!! IT'S MY MOTHER!!!" - "She hasn't been loaded into the system yet, I am not allowed to send you back there at this time" - "I CONTROL THE MONEY, I NEED TO GO BACK THERE! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???" This guy was starting to get me flustered so I called the charge nurse whose response was "Another family member causing you trouble? Who is it for? ... Sure send him back." End result, he got his mom transferred all around the hospital because nurses didn't want to deal with him.

Even though I got a few good experiences out of this volunteering, I always felt my purpose was to make the lives of the staff easier. I mean, who wants to make pamphlets for each patient for hours while filling out paperwork? If I just do that I save someone a small hassle, that is why I am there.

 

[MrBird]

You just blew my mind. Someone lying on SDN? We need a thread about that.(http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=887579)

Obviously you didn't know women's shelters have weekly physician visits to monitor mental and physical health. I volunteered with said physician. This means my work at the women's center is medically related.

Thanks for playing.

 

[tkim]

Wow, sorry I just can't believe a practicing physician believes spending 4 hours a week mostly changing the sheets on beds and giving water to patients is supposed to be valuable/meaningful volunteer work for a premed that's deciding whether or not he/she wants to go into medicine.

Interesting...

The minute you show where I said this I will respond.

 

[MrBird]

oh, and you're an assistant mod? strong work, sdn.

 

[dbeast]

They still signed up to do a job. Shouldn't they keep up their end of the bargain?

I think this was music2doc's point of the thread... Nobody's forcing you to be a clinical care extender volunteer (I agree that it's pretty pointless), but if you do it, at least try and do a good job. Paying your dues with a crap job still counts for something, and I think that's why adcom's appreciate it. Flipping beds doesn't prove that you're smart as much as it proves your willingness to be helpful for little to no appreciation. Patience with a boring job will come in handy during your surgery rotation when you spend hours holding retractors and are thankful for the chance to do it.

LOL.So that uh, confirms what for that volunteer? That he knows how to use scissors? That he can handle looking at blood? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's going to find a way to work that 20 minute experience into a superficial personal statement about how that moment let him know he wanted to dedicate his life to clinical medicine. But what inherent value does such an experience provide?

Nothing.

EDIT: actually the part where you mention the room flipping and bringing food to patients would count as valuable experience for someone who may be interested in hotel hospitality.

See above. Replace "holding retractors" with "cutting sutures".

 

[mipp0]

You get toradol, tylenol, or motrin - whichever you happen not to be allergic to, then shown the door. If you're allergic to all three - see that door?

lol...EPICNESS +100

Your example, I will follow.

 

[MrBird]

The minute you show where I said this I will respond.

You're defending hospital volunteering experiences that are referred to by the OP's initial post (the kid in the ER that refused to make triage packets...which is in my opinion, not anymore meaningful for the volunteer than changing sheets).
I also refer you to the poster "idontcaureuknow" a few posts above who commented about his experience (which is also similar to the usual hospital volunteering experience).

 

[music2doc]

I think this was music2doc's point of the thread... Nobody's forcing you to be a clinical care extender volunteer (I agree that it's pretty pointless), but if you do it, at least try and do a good job. Paying your dues with a crap job still counts for something, and I think that's why adcom's appreciate it. Flipping beds doesn't prove that you're smart as much as it proves your willingness to be helpful for little to no appreciation. Patience with a boring job will come in handy during your surgery rotation when you spend hours holding retractors and are thankful for the chance to do it.

That was the point. I feel like if you don't you're just wasting your time. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to most of us. Sure, I've heard a few comments from staff wondering what "they" are doing because it's kind of weird to have random people with badges on standing around, but other than the few odd looks, no one really cares all that much.

(Now if patients started complaining because "I'm not getting seen fast enough and there are 'staff' standing around texting" we'd have a different issue entirely and I could certainly see this happening with our patient population, but fortunately it has not yet occurred....)

My concern is more for you wasting your time and I'd rather that not happen. I can't really walk up to our volunteers and "suggest" they engage us better or do what we ask them to do, so I made a general suggestion here in hopes that they and other premeds in similar situations might read it and take my suggestions for a spin.

 

[MrBird]

I think this was music2doc's point of the thread... Nobody's forcing you to be a clinical care extender volunteer (I agree that it's pretty pointless), but if you do it, at least try and do a good job. Paying your dues with a crap job still counts for something, and I think that's why adcom's appreciate it. Flipping beds doesn't prove that you're smart as much as it proves your willingness to be helpful for little to no appreciation. Patience with a boring job will come in handy during your surgery rotation when you spend hours holding retractors and are thankful for the chance to do it.



See above. Replace "holding retractors" with "cutting sutures".

You think being a clinical care extender flipping beds is even a half decent way to do that?

 

[tkim]

You're defending hospital volunteering experiences that are referred to by the OP's initial post (the kid in the ER that refused to make triage packets...which is in my opinion, not anymore meaningful for the volunteer than changing sheets).
I also refer you to the poster "idontcaureuknow" a few posts above who commented about his experience (which is also similar to the usual hospital volunteering experience).

Um, no, I am not defending OP experiences. I am defending the utility of hospital volunteering to gain clinical exposure. I've said that a couple of times. An easy way to gain access and exposure to patients.

Then again, we don't all have uncles who lied their way into NYU Med, now, do we?

My uncle was legit on his primary//secondary apps but lied many times about his EC activities during an interview at NYU. He still got in. I suppose it just depends on how good a liar you are. Some suck. Some are really good.

I don't suppose this is the physcian you shadowed at the homeless shelter? Talk about advantages other people don't have. Or maybe the apple didn't fall far from the tree ...

 

[dbeast]

You think being a clinical care extender flipping beds is even a half decent way to do that?

Now you're arguing just to argue...

 

[sector9]

Or if they really want to show they're altruistic, don't you think those hundreds of hours spent in an ER would be better spent at a homeless shelter or a hospice?

Oh look, the only 2 ways to meaningfully volunteer happen to also be the only 2 ways that MrBird found time to serve the community. Isn't that precious

Obviously you didn't know women's shelters have weekly physician visits to monitor mental and physical health. I volunteered with said physician. This means my work at the women's center is medically related.

Thanks for playing.

That wasn't the first thing that jumped to my mind, no.

It looks like you happened to miss my earlier response to one of your ill-conceived and incorrect rants but you noticed my post once I said something you could refute.

 

[music2doc]

When I was on ED sub-I a few months ago I would pull volunteers into rooms w/ me if I wasn't too busy, or go over EKGs and/or imaging with them. Residents/attendings would do the same. We certainly didn't wait for a tech's recommendation that we do that, lol. I don't think it's that uncommon.

That's good to hear. It doesn't tend to happen here, but I'm glad to hear some places do a better job than our ER does.

 

[MrBird]

I apologize. I don't mean to argue with you. I'm just not understanding why a few people are defending hospital volunteer work...especially ones that have already made it past the pre-med stage.

I, for one, only even tried to do hospital volunteering because everyone kept telling me I "needed" it for my app. What a load of crap that was.