And this is why I can't go into SA general med...

[DVMDream]

Would be nice if we could make vaccines against fungi.... would love one against Valley Fever.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dyachei]

Would be nice if we could make vaccines against fungi.... would love one against Valley Fever.

or blasto...

 

[hagel100]

There are valid concerns on both ends of the spectrum, for sure. In my opinion there really needs to be more client education. There are too many clinics that just send out there yearly (or tri-yearly) vaccine reminders and the client is left in the dark as to the manufacturer recommendations vs. AAHA guidelines vs. true duration of immunity, etc. and aren't educated about potential risks, alternatives (like titering) or about what their pet is even at risk for in the first place (a clinic in Florida has my grandmother vaccinating her predominantly indoor yorkipoo who is never boarded and rarely comes into contact with other dogs for bordetella yearly - how crazy!). Once the client is informed of all angles, with the help of the veterinarian, an informed decision should be made as to which vaccines the animal will receive and how frequently. I think vaccine protocols are too often viewed as one-size-fits-all, when they're not.

 

[dyachei]

There are valid concerns on both ends of the spectrum, for sure. In my opinion there really needs to be more client education. There are too many clinics that just send out there yearly (or tri-yearly) vaccine reminders and the client is left in the dark as to the manufacturer recommendations vs. AAHA guidelines vs. true duration of immunity, etc. and aren't educated about potential risks, alternatives (like titering) or about what their pet is even at risk for in the first place (a clinic in Florida has my grandmother vaccinating her predominantly indoor yorkipoo who is never boarded and rarely comes into contact with other dogs for bordetella yearly - how crazy!). Once the client is informed of all angles, with the help of the veterinarian, an informed decision should be made as to which vaccines the animal will receive and how frequently. I think vaccine protocols are too often viewed as one-size-fits-all, when they're not.

does your grandmother in FL take her dog on walks where other dogs frequent? Because bordetella should be yearly in that case. Yes, I agree we should be taking that into consideration but you might be surprised.

AAHA guidelines typically stay with vaccine manufacturer guidelines.

 

[DVMDream]

There are valid concerns on both ends of the spectrum, for sure. In my opinion there really needs to be more client education. There are too many clinics that just send out there yearly (or tri-yearly) vaccine reminders and the client is left in the dark as to the manufacturer recommendations vs. AAHA guidelines vs. true duration of immunity, etc. and aren't educated about potential risks, alternatives (like titering) or about what their pet is even at risk for in the first place (a clinic in Florida has my grandmother vaccinating her predominantly indoor yorkipoo who is never boarded and rarely comes into contact with other dogs for bordetella yearly - how crazy!). Once the client is informed of all angles, with the help of the veterinarian, an informed decision should be made as to which vaccines the animal will receive and how frequently. I think vaccine protocols are too often viewed as one-size-fits-all, when they're not.

Ever try to sit a client down and discuss all of this with them?

It is information overload. Research studies done on what clients can remember after the appointment with the vet indicate it is less than 50%, I can't recall now if it was 10% or 30% that clients can remember.

Yes, we definitely need to be educating our clients on vaccines, their efficacy, what they protect against, etc, but it is a balancing act on how to do this without confusing the hell out of the client and leaving them feeling completely lost.

 

[bunnity]

There are valid concerns on both ends of the spectrum, for sure. In my opinion there really needs to be more client education. There are too many clinics that just send out there yearly (or tri-yearly) vaccine reminders and the client is left in the dark as to the manufacturer recommendations vs. AAHA guidelines vs. true duration of immunity, etc. and aren't educated about potential risks, alternatives (like titering) or about what their pet is even at risk for in the first place (a clinic in Florida has my grandmother vaccinating her predominantly indoor yorkipoo who is never boarded and rarely comes into contact with other dogs for bordetella yearly - how crazy!). Once the client is informed of all angles, with the help of the veterinarian, an informed decision should be made as to which vaccines the animal will receive and how frequently. I think vaccine protocols are too often viewed as one-size-fits-all, when they're not.

Does the Yorkipoo go to a groomer? Then not only would I recommend that it receive the bordetella vaccine (yearly, as labeled), but the groomer most likely requires the vaccine as a condition of coming to the grooming center.

I try super hard to communicate with my clients and help them pick the best vaccination schedule for their pets. However, I have (or, as a new grad, am working up to having) 15 minutes to look through the previous record, take a history, do a physical exam, administer the vaccines, and record my findings - plus discuss / work up any problems I find on PE or any concerns the client has. Trying to explain the immune system to every single client during that time is not really the best use of their time or my time, and I would rather address the client's questions and the (dental disease, new lump, obesity, heart murmur, fill in the blank) that I just found on physical exam. If a client WANTS to talk about vaccines then by all means! But most of them are honestly a lot more concerned about something else.

 

[Thelemic]

Does the Yorkipoo go to a groomer? Then not only would I recommend that it receive the bordetella vaccine (yearly, as labeled), but the groomer most likely requires the vaccine as a condition of coming to the grooming center.

I try super hard to communicate with my clients and help them pick the best vaccination schedule for their pets. However, I have (or, as a new grad, am working up to having) 15 minutes to look through the previous record, take a history, do a physical exam, administer the vaccines, and record my findings - plus discuss / work up any problems I find on PE or any concerns the client has. Trying to explain the immune system to every single client during that time is not really the best use of their time or my time, and I would rather address the client's questions and the (dental disease, new lump, obesity, heart murmur, fill in the blank) that I just found on physical exam. If a client WANTS to talk about vaccines then by all means! But most of them are honestly a lot more concerned about something else.

This seems like a perfectly reasonable approach. But, I feel like most vet clients don't even know what they don't know, when it comes to vaccines. So if a vet selects vaccines and administers them with minimal explanation and without covering potential risks and side effects, and a client then comes across an article like the one that started this thread, a lot of times they feel like 'this is horrible! Why didn't my vet say anything? Why did they LIE TO ME?!' Which, I mean, the vet didn't do. But if you don't even know the questions to ask, later find out that there were questions maybe you wanted to ask if you'd known about them, and that something you believed was innocuous is actually capable of causing side effects and was administered to your pet more frequently than the AVMA recommends (often for various valid reasons already noted by other posters), I can understand feeling upset with your vet.

 

[bunnity]

I have a vaccine reactions speech that I give every single time I do vaccines "It is normal for Fluffy to be a little lethargic today and be sore at the spots (I point them out) where I did her injections. Allergic reactions to vaccines are very rare and typically happen within an hour; so keep an eye out for facial swelling, vomiting, diarrhea, or changes in breathing; if anything concerns you at all, bring her right back in." It takes about 20 seconds to say and more importantly is something the client really needs to know. However, it is not practical for me to do the TV commercial style list of every possible outcome every time I give a vaccine or a medication. I do my best to cover those that are likely to be relevant to the patient. I don't work for Banfield, but I do like the little medication handouts that they give out with each prescription with all that info... maybe something to talk to my boss about in the future.

 

[dyachei]

I have a vaccine reactions speech that I give every single time I do vaccines "It is normal for Fluffy to be a little lethargic today and be sore at the spots (I point them out) where I did her injections. Allergic reactions to vaccines are very rare and typically happen within an hour; so keep an eye out for facial swelling, vomiting, diarrhea, or changes in breathing; if anything concerns you at all, bring her right back in." It takes about 20 seconds to say and more importantly is something the client really needs to know. However, it is not practical for me to do the TV commercial style list of every possible outcome every time I give a vaccine or a medication. I do my best to cover those that are likely to be relevant to the patient. I don't work for Banfield, but I do like the little medication handouts that they give out with each prescription with all that info... maybe something to talk to my boss about in the future.

I do the same thing. I made my own hand outs for clients with vaccine reaction info with our number and an emergency number available. And banfield down here didn't have it for most meds, just some.

And personally, I talk to my clients about risks of not vaccinating, too. I've seen enough cases of parvovirus, distemper, and FeLV to last me a lifetime.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I do the same thing. I made my own hand outs for clients with vaccine reaction info with our number and an emergency number available. And banfield down here didn't have it for most meds, just some.

And personally, I talk to my clients about risks of not vaccinating, too. I've seen enough cases of parvovirus, distemper, and FeLV to last me a lifetime.

Yup, other than the vaccine reaction blurb, I don't say anything about the vaccines the animals are getting. But I do tell the owners about vaccines they weren't interested in just to make sure they know what it's for. I do offer to break up vaccines esp for little dogs (they can come back t anytime without incurring extra charges). And I do explain that some very unlucky kitties can rarely develop tumor from injection site later in life and that we always try to use the safest vaccines and inject as far away from vital structures as possible. I say it in a way as not to scare the owners, and it hasn't been a problem thus far. If I'm doing this while giving the vaccines, it doesn't take too much time, but it gets hard with patients who have multiple problems to address. Then I pick and choose my battles.

For the happy healthy pet, I go through all aspects of well care because the owners are paying for my time, and I don't want to give them less attention just because they are doing all of the right things to keep their pets healthy. I feel bad when I have to shaft them a litte because I'm falling behind due to disaster pet/owner from a previous slot.

The biggest time sink for me is addressing obesity...

 

[dyachei]

Yup, other than the vaccine reaction blurb, I don't say anything about the vaccines the animals are getting. But I do tell the owners about vaccines they weren't interested in just to make sure they know what it's for. I do offer to break up vaccines esp for little dogs (they can come back t anytime without incurring extra charges). And I do explain that some very unlucky kitties can rarely develop tumor from injection site later in life and that we always try to use the safest vaccines and inject as far away from vital structures as possible. I say it in a way as not to scare the owners, and it hasn't been a problem thus far. If I'm doing this while giving the vaccines, it doesn't take too much time, but it gets hard with patients who have multiple problems to address. Then I pick and choose my battles.

For the happy healthy pet, I go through all aspects of well care because the owners are paying for my time, and I don't want to give them less attention just because they are doing all of the right things to keep their pets healthy. I feel bad when I have to shaft them a litte because I'm falling behind due to disaster pet/owner from a previous slot.

The biggest time sink for me is addressing obesity...

The worst part about obesity is when the client isn't receptive to even considering that their pet may be overweight

 

[lhmhtd]

We had a client who made her dog biscuits and gravy and bacon for breakfast every morning.

 

[Minnerbelle]

"This is normal for him. He's always been a big boy, even as a puppy. He doesn't even get fed that much. And we feed him blue buffalo which is the best good ever"

Facepalm

 

[StartingoverVet]

How do you guys deal with the raw diet crazies who think that their dogs will NEVER get any disease if they feed raw. Seriously. Some of them are like Jonestown, drink the kool-aid crazy.

 

[LetItSnow]

How do you guys deal with the raw diet crazies who think that their dogs will NEVER get any disease if they feed raw. Seriously. Some of them are like Jonestown, drink the kool-aid crazy.

Depends on my read on the client. My <very general> approach is always to pick the top couple problems that I can address that will have the maximal impact for the pet and owner.

If my read on some raw food client is that they are one of those "I'm not willing to talk about this, my mind is made up" then I'm probably going to do a big mental sigh and just move on and focus on areas I *can* make a difference. If they tell me "Well.... we feed X but I'm interested in a raw diet and I've been starting to read about it"... then I'm more likely to take the time to say "Hey, let me give you a little information from my side of the table". Yanno?

And if their animal is there because it's an 13 year old dog with lymphoma, I'm just going to write down whatever the heck they feed it and not make any comments.

So it's pretty contextual. At least, for my approach.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Depends on my read on the client. My <very general> approach is always to pick the top couple problems that I can address that will have the maximal impact for the pet and owner.

If my read on some raw food client is that they are one of those "I'm not willing to talk about this, my mind is made up" then I'm probably going to do a big mental sigh and just move on and focus on areas I *can* make a difference. If they tell me "Well.... we feed X but I'm interested in a raw diet and I've been starting to read about it"... then I'm more likely to take the time to say "Hey, let me give you a little information from my side of the table". Yanno?

And if their animal is there because it's an 13 year old dog with lymphoma, I'm just going to write down whatever the heck they feed it and not make any comments.

So it's pretty contextual. At least, for my approach.

That was a very good... if literal answer.
I was more intending the frustration of it sometimes... but you have a good head on your shoulders.

 

[dyachei]

How do you guys deal with the raw diet crazies who think that their dogs will NEVER get any disease if they feed raw. Seriously. Some of them are like Jonestown, drink the kool-aid crazy.

I give out information like candy - if they truly understand the risks, etc. But usually, I do what LIS does.

 

[cloverbug]

Ok, that is what I figured. Yeah, not sure I understand the purpose of the different 1 year vs. 3 year rabies vaccine. Guess the 1 year is to use as a first time vaccine?

My boss told me that the canary derivative of the rabies vaccine is less effective long term so that's why that one is labeled as a one year no matter what. Maybe that's why.

 

[dyachei]

My boss told me that the canary derivative of the rabies vaccine is less effective long term so that's why that one is labeled as a one year no matter what. Maybe that's why.

The reason people buy it is because it's cheaper. There's no change in protection if you start with a 3 year and booster at 1 year

 

[LetItSnow]

That was a very good... if literal answer.

Oops.

 

[cloverbug]

The reason people buy it is because it's cheaper. There's no change in protection if you start with a 3 year and booster at 1 year

Ah okey dokey. I haven't done any research on the vaccines or anything so I was just going off of what they said. Good to know though.

 

[Maddiegirl]

Funny cause I grew up in a suburb of DC and never touched a cow until probably our first clinical skills lab in vet school!! [\QUOTE]

I had no idea you were from DC area. NoVa gal here.

 

[Maddiegirl]

Well screwed that up... WTF what part of DC area are you from?

On the vaccine issue, our clinic does 3 yr rabies and dhlpp on dogs, but boosters lepto and rattlesnake annually. We stop vaccinating senior dogs at 9 for dhpp. We continue lepto and rabies. We use the non adjuvant 1 yr rabies on cats. Only push felv on indoor/outdoor or outdoor only cats.

 

[bunnity]

What is this rattlesnake vaccine?!

 

[nyanko]

It theoretically can dampen the effects of a bite from like one type of rattlesnake to allow more time to seek veterinary care. Not really a slam dunk thing tbh.

 

[DVMDream]

It theoretically can dampen the effects of a bite from like one type of rattlesnake to allow more time to seek veterinary care. Not really a slam dunk thing tbh.

Yeah, we had them at the clinic I worked at, but still the pet will have to be seen if bit by a rattlesnake and will have to be treated for the bite. Might save the client a little bit of $ on treatment and give them a bit more time after the bite to get vet care, otherwise it is kind of a worthless vaccine, in my opinion.

 

[bunnity]

Well you learn something new every day. Never heard of it in school or the many clinics I've been at. We have rattlesnakes in PA, but maybe a different species?

 

[StartingoverVet]

Well you learn something new every day. Never heard of it in school or the many clinics I've been at. We have rattlesnakes in PA, but maybe a different species?

We used in CA. I recall the thinking was if you are out in the canyons and your dog gets bit, it will die before you can get it treatment, but with the vaccine, there is time to get treatment.

Most dogs don't get rattlesnake bites conveniently near vet clinics. Au contraire.

 

[DVMDream]

Well you learn something new every day. Never heard of it in school or the many clinics I've been at. We have rattlesnakes in PA, but maybe a different species?

I don't know. Not sure what snakes live in PA. AZ is snake city and most of the vets would only recommend it if you were really going to be out hiking/camping and it would take you hours to get back to your car and to a vet. I think we gave a total of maybe 3 of those vaccines in the years I was working there.

 

[DVMDream]

Most dogs don't get rattlesnake bites conveniently near vet clinics. Au contraire.

Why not?

Actually, the only rattlesnake bite I have seen was a dog that got bit by a snake that had come into the garage. He was trying to keep the snake away from the kids. Poor dog got bit right on the nose. He was fine though, recovered well. (Had never been given a vaccine for it either).

 

[lhmhtd]

Are you guys all out west?

 

[StartingoverVet]

Why not?

.

Well at least in L.A. people/pets tend to get bit when they are out hiking in the canyons, or the Santa Monica mountains or something, and are pretty far away from clinics.
Snakes don't live too frequently in the streets of Beverly Hills and such

I can see from someone who practices in Arizona say, that might be different.

 

[JaynaAli]

I live in the midwest and the clinic I teched at carries the vaccine, but the only patients that get it tend to be farm dogs that freely roam large properties. We don't push it at all...just consider it when people ask us about it.

 

[lhmhtd]

Ah, that makes sense. I lived in Tucson as a kid, and one of our neighbors dogs was bit in the face by a rattlesnake. He ended up surviving (at least that's what my parents told me), but I am not sure this vaccine was even out in the 90s.

 

[DVMDream]

Well at least in L.A. people/pets tend to get bit when they are out hiking in the canyons, or the Santa Monica mountains or something, and are pretty far away from clinics.
Snakes don't live too frequently in the streets of Beverly Hills and such

I can see from someone who practices in Arizona say, that might be different.

Yeah, sometimes snakes creep into homes in AZ, but that is not all that common to be honest. Scorpions, on the other hand, are found in homes all the time and cats really like to play with them....

 

[StartingoverVet]

Yeah, sometimes snakes creep into homes in AZ, but that is not all that common to be honest. Scorpions, on the other hand, are found in homes all the time and cats really like to play with them....

my cat likes to play with worms. Is that the same thing?

 

[DVMDream]

my cat likes to play with worms. Is that the same thing?

Close, very close.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Well screwed that up... WTF what part of DC area are you from?

On the vaccine issue, our clinic does 3 yr rabies and dhlpp on dogs, but boosters lepto and rattlesnake annually. We stop vaccinating senior dogs at 9 for dhpp. We continue lepto and rabies. We use the non adjuvant 1 yr rabies on cats. Only push felv on indoor/outdoor or outdoor only cats.

@Maddiegirl I lived in Arlington for most of my childhood, then we moved out to Oakton until I went to college. My folks are now in Haymarket.

I like SWVA a lot better than NoVA overall. The people are much nicer, less traffic, so much prettier, etc. I was transformed into a hillbilly

 

[Maddiegirl]

@Maddiegirl I lived in Arlington for most of my childhood, then we moved out to Oakton until I went to college. My folks are now in Haymarket.

I like SWVA a lot better than NoVA overall. The people are much nicer, less traffic, so much prettier, etc. I was transformed into a hillbilly

I grew up in Alexandria and then lived in Springfield. I moved back to Texas after 9/11. The people are SO much nicer down here. I was born a redneck and dragged kicking and screaming to NoVa!!

 

[remi4301]

Just out of curiosity.... does the zoonosis of lepto play into encouraging lepto vaccine more?

 

[DVMDream]

Just out of curiosity.... does the zoonosis of lepto play into encouraging lepto vaccine more?

What do you mean by encouraging it more? Do you mean by giving the vaccine once a year instead of every three years?

 

[Minnerbelle]

Just out of curiosity.... does the zoonosis of lepto play into encouraging lepto vaccine more?

Personally, no not really. I recommend it because I've seen enough dogs die because of it.

 

[Coquette22]

Lepto is getting more pravalent here, and vets are recommending it for dogs at risk. The crux is that the animals get it, but they do mention the zoonotic aspect.

 

[dyachei]

Personally, no not really. I recommend it because I've seen enough dogs die because of it.

This exactly. But zoonosis changes how we deal with lethargic icterus dogs

 

[Minnerbelle]

This exactly. But zoonosis changes how we deal with lethargic icterus dogs

Most definitely. Any acute renal failure without obvious toxic insult and liver dogs get dealt with precautions, both for owners and staff interacting with the dog.

I absolutely think it's our responsibility to make sure zoonotic risks are explained IF an animal has something on the differential list that is zoonotic. But during routine wellness appointments, I don't go around pointing out every possible zoonosis. Only the ones that are pertinent like pregger ladies with cats or something. (Partly because I don't want issue with her baby, but also because I don't want her to hear it first from her MD who tells her to get rid of her cat or something ridiculous along those lines).

 

[dyachei]

Most definitely. Any acute renal failure without obvious toxic insult and liver dogs get dealt with precautions, both for owners and staff interacting with the dog.

I absolutely think it's our responsibility to make sure zoonotic risks are explained IF an animal has something on the differential list that is zoonotic. But during routine wellness appointments, I don't go around pointing out every possible zoonosis. Only the ones that are pertinent like pregger ladies with cats or something. (Partly because I don't want issue with her baby, but also because I don't want her to hear it first from her MD who tells her to get rid of her cat or something ridiculous along those lines).

Or like if your dog has scabies and you develop a rash. You wouldn't believe how many owners want to show me rashes in all sorts of areas

 

[Minnerbelle]

Or like if your dog has scabies and you develop a rash. You wouldn't believe how many owners want to show me rashes in all sorts of areas

I had a dog that came in for lump check during school. The owner declined FNA or further workup (it's like, why did she even bother to come in? Apparently she wanted to pay a hefty fee to see our pretty faces and hear three people say, well... I can't tell you for sure that it's benign). She didn't really seem to care all that much about the dog's lump. Then she proceeded to ask me if her wart might be related. Before she could lift her shirt, I was like "nope nope nope nope nope, I highly doubt it. Please go see your doctor."

Geez, I'm pretty sure a copay for her doctor was probably cheaper than coming in for an emergency visit at a veterinary teaching hospital...

 

[dyachei]

I had a dog that came in for lump check during school. The owner declined FNA or further workup (it's like, why did she even bother to come in? Apparently she wanted to pay a hefty fee to see our pretty faces and hear three people say, well... I can't tell you for sure that it's benign). She didn't really seem to care all that much about the dog's lump. Then she proceeded to ask me if her wart might be related. Before she could lift her shirt, I was like "nope nope nope nope nope, I highly doubt it. Please go see your doctor."

Geez, I'm pretty sure a copay for her doctor was probably cheaper than coming in for an emergency visit at a veterinary teaching hospital...

Hahaha yup. Honestly I don't want to see any of their problems much less ones they have to remove clothing for

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I grew up in Alexandria and then lived in Springfield. I moved back to Texas after 9/11. The people are SO much nicer down here. I was born a redneck and dragged kicking and screaming to NoVa!!

Cool cool.

I did my residency in Texas. Never really fit in, though. I think you have to be a Texan yourself for Texans to be truly friendly with you. Otherwise you're a *gasp* OUTSIDER (or "2%er") My heart's in Appalachia.

People in Northern Virginia are dinguses by and large. Once you get south they are incredibly nice and accepting.

 

[Maddiegirl]

People in Northern Virginia are dinguses by and large. Once you get south they are incredibly nice and accepting.

No truer words have ever been spoken!