Anesthesiologists treated like second rate physicians.

[Yangkower]

The day of Doctors being God are over, but how you are treated has everything to do with your competence/work ethic/personality. If you are an anesthesiologist that freaks out over everything, are slow to start cases, hard to find, disorganized, etc... You will be disliked and treated like crap and disrespected behind your back. The biggest mistake I see anesthesiologist making is making a big deal about trivia because that's what the "guidelines say". If you practice anesthesiology like every case is an oral board you are in for a long frustrating career. As far as I'm concerned, we are like a Masterchef. I can usually tell pretty quickly which patients I need to freak out about and which I don't. Definitely not a 100% but getting better.

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[gasdoc1]

You'll realize after a few years of making 420K to do a fairly easy job that it doesn't really matter - at least I did. It says more about the surgeon than it does about you if they treat anyone as a "second class physician". Just get along and be happy. Life has a way of sorting out the douche bags...

I disagree with part of this statement. You are not being paid 420k "to do a fairly easy job", and making statements like this does a disservice to us all. You are being paid 420K to be the only one in the room who knows what to do when things aren't easy. Depending on your practice setting, this can be often or rare. Becoming the only person in the room to know what to do, certainly wasn't "fairly easy". Your statement makes it sound like we are just a bunch of overpaid CRNA's. I agree with the rest of what you said.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I agree with the OP that there seems to be a lack of respect for anesthesiologists that surprised me when I started residency. But to be honest I feel there is a sort of lack of respect for physicians in general that I didn't expect. I feel this may be because its seems currently "fashionable" for docs to seem like regular people-joking with nurses and staff, going out for drinks on occasion. When I was a kid my pediatrician had such strict old school bedside manner and professionalism that commanded respect. Now it seems this kind of doc is going extinct.

It's lonely at the top. So some plumb the bottom. I try not to hang out with the staff outside of work. I do want them to respect me in the OR. When the doo-doo hits the fan, you don't want them second guessing you.

 

[GasEmDee]

It's lonely at the top. So some plumb the bottom. I try not to hang out with the staff outside of work. I do want them to respect me in the OR. When the doo-doo hits the fan, you don't want them second guessing you.

I totally understand your point, but I do hang out with the staff outside of work. I think I get invited because they like me as a person. I assume they trust my professional judgement, because I get more than my share of requests to take care of staff members and hospital VIPs when they get surgery.

To get back to the topic:

Some anesthesiologists fuss over stupid crap, pound their chests as if to shout, "I, too, am a doctor, just like the surgeon!!" I find this absurd. This is not how you command respect.

A good anesthesiologist SHOULD make anesthesia seem like an easy job. I rarely fuss over minor things. So when something truly major is happening (rare -- even in my high acuity patient care setting), and I raise the alarm, I get immediate and rapt attention. Hanging out for drinks outside of work does not detract from this, in my experience. I think actually that it enhances it.

I have some dramatic colleagues. They delay cases, grand stand, try to convince the surgeon that their job is hard too. It sucks, but the silver lining is it makes the rest of us (the no-fuss-no-muss, under the radar anesthesiologists) look like heroes. Just do your job well, and it comes naturally. You can take any job in the world, and I'd bet my life that there is at least someone in that job who feels like they are not respected enough. Its all about the person, not the job.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

It sucks, but the silver lining is it makes the rest of us (the no-fuss-no-muss, under the radar anesthesiologists) look like heroes.

My experience is that if you make it look too easy all they will think is that it is easy. Or that you only get the easy cases. Most people who don't do what we do have no clue what we do.

I have a colleague who is a real grandstander. Every anesthetic he does is like a Rube Goldberg machine. The first thing I do when I take over cases for him is cut out about 2/3rds of the B.S. he's set up. But, everyone thinks he's awesome and he gets a lot of request cases because he showboats. I can do the same case and spend about 1/3rd of what he does. People still think he's the smartest guy in the room. Maybe he is.

If you make it look too easy people will think you don't really have any skill. So be it. Smooth and boring in the OR is the way I like it.

 

[pgg]

We'll put GasEmDee.

Any hack can make it look hard, and pull off a dramatic save from a crisis they should've foreseen and avoided.

 

[IanMcGalt]

I totally understand your point, but I do hang out with the staff outside of work. I think I get invited because they like me as a person. I assume they trust my professional judgement, because I get more than my share of requests to take care of staff members and hospital VIPs when they get surgery.

To get back to the topic:

Some anesthesiologists fuss over stupid crap, pound their chests as if to shout, "I, too, am a doctor, just like the surgeon!!" I find this absurd. This is not how you command respect.

A good anesthesiologist SHOULD make anesthesia seem like an easy job. I rarely fuss over minor things. So when something truly major is happening (rare -- even in my high acuity patient care setting), and I raise the alarm, I get immediate and rapt attention. Hanging out for drinks outside of work does not detract from this, in my experience. I think actually that it enhances it.

I have some dramatic colleagues. They delay cases, grand stand, try to convince the surgeon that their job is hard too. It sucks, but the silver lining is it makes the rest of us (the no-fuss-no-muss, under the radar anesthesiologists) look like heroes. Just do your job well, and it comes naturally. You can take any job in the world, and I'd bet my life that there is at least someone in that job who feels like they are not respected enough. Its all about the person, not the job.

Yeah, except that it's about the person AND the job.

 

[GasEmDee]

If you make it look too easy people will think you don't really have any skill. So be it. Smooth and boring in the OR is the way I like it.

I don't think so. Look at how we as anesthesiologists view surgeons. When I see a surgeon get thru his cases consistently within the scheduled time and without drama, I frequently think "he is a good surgeon." I don't ever think "surgery must be really easy."

In contrast, when I see the a surgeon struggle time and again, with cases that other surgeons easily sail through, I don't think "surgery must be hard." I simply think, "this surgeon sucks.

 

[Hockeyguy]

I disagree with part of this statement. You are not being paid 420k "to do a fairly easy job", and making statements like this does a disservice to us all. You are being paid 420K to be the only one in the room who knows what to do when things aren't easy. Depending on your practice setting, this can be often or rare. Becoming the only person in the room to know what to do, certainly wasn't "fairly easy". Your statement makes it sound like we are just a bunch of overpaid CRNA's. I agree with the rest of what you said.

Sorry I just meant its a fairly easy for job for me. Make it is as hard as you'd like.

 

[gasdoc1]

Sorry I just meant its a fairly easy for job for me. Make it is as hard as you'd like.

Yeah. You are right. I guess anybody can become an Anesthesiologist and do our job. We really shouldn't be paid "$420K" to do such an easy job. What do you think is fair? $60K? No maybe $100K is what we are worth? That sounds fair, right? Or better yet, maybe doctors should get out of anesthesia altogether and leave it to the nurses, since it is so easy.

You sound like the people who know nothing about what we do. If our own people feel this way, we don't stand a chance.

 

[Hockeyguy]

Yeah. You are right. I guess anybody can become an Anesthesiologist and do our job. We really shouldn't be paid "$420K" to do such an easy job. What do you think is fair? $60K? No maybe $100K is what we are worth? That sounds fair, right? Or better yet, maybe doctors should get out of anesthesia altogether and leave it to the nurses, since it is so easy.

You sound like the people who know nothing about what we do. If our own people feel this way, we don't stand a chance.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! We don't stand a chance! You guys have been spewing the same tired s hit for 25 years. You're right we are all going to die broke and alone. Are you happy now?

 

[deleted171991]

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! We don't stand a chance! You guys have been spewing the same tired s hit for 25 years. You're right we are all going to die broke and alone. Are you happy now?

You ungrateful bastard! You only have it so good because we've been scaring away all these people for decades.

 

[Baller MD]

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! We don't stand a chance! You guys have been spewing the same tired s hit for 25 years. You're right we are all going to die broke and alone. Are you happy now?

The sky IS falling. Reimbursements are going down, residency spots are going up, and AMCs are eating up practices.

 

[gasdoc1]

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! We don't stand a chance! You guys have been spewing the same tired s hit for 25 years. You're right we are all going to die broke and alone. Are you happy now?

You are right. You keep going around saying that we are overpaid for what we do. That is very helpful. It's the right thing to do. My bad for trying to say otherwise.

 

[Consigliere]

The sky IS falling. Reimbursements are going down, residency spots are going up, and AMCs are eating up practices.

Add to that the fact that there are dozens more CRNA schools spewing out our competition, supervisory ratios are increasing, physician anesthesiologists are being displaced from jobs thereby making the job market even more competitive and you'll see that the sky is falling HARD.

 

[deleted171991]

Some people can't believe what they don't experience personally. It's from lack of historical knowledge.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Although the context is so much different, the above also applies to physicians today. One can replace the various social factions with medical specialties.

 

[chocomorsel]

Wow FFP. Never heard of that saying/poem before. It is very profound. And yes, you are right. Especially in Anesthesia. But most docs aren't united like nurses are. We are very individualistic.

 

[yappy]

This respect thing is all in your head.. if you went to med school and residency in order to have your butt kissed by some hourly hospital employee you will be sorely disappointed. My best friend is an orthopod.. if he waits to finish pinching a loaf before call back a primary physician the consult and patient go to someone else. He does 10-12 hours on his operating days and sees 40+ patients a day on his office days. If you think the 2 hours you spent caring for that "self pay" patient were bad, he has to deal with that same guy for weeks after you've already forgotten him. I watch him get the the tagalog "YES DOCTOOOOOR" of death over and over and then get laughed at the moment he leaves the room while his preference cards have the same wrong sutures for the past 5 years. It almost seems like the nurses / scrub techs / sterile processing people are intentionally screwing with his instruments, pretending to not know how to answer his phone when he is operating on call, holding up his cases for BS chart problems, contaminating entire trays of implants in middle of a procedure, screwing up counts and oh yes.. watching my colleagues cancel his cases for questionable reasons so they can make it to juniors soccer game.

The kicker is that he is a nice guy.. a "respected" surgeon and someone who brings an inordinate amount of cash into the hospital and surgery center. He has operated on several of the nurses we work with and takes care of many of their family members. I estimate that on a given day I deal with 5% of the BS he deals with and work 1/3 as many hours over the course an average month. I also know how much he makes and it sure as heck isn't triple what I make.. not even close.

None of the "disrespect" mentioned in this thread impairs my ability to care for a patient to the best of my abilities while earning a generous salary and maintaining a very good lifestyle. Do your job, collect your paycheck and buy yourself something nice.

/rant

How is it that physicians don't employ & fire their own employees? Having the ability to can someone for poor performance garners a lot of respect.

 

[deleted171991]

How is it that physicians don't employ & fire their own employees? Having the ability to can someone for poor performance garners a lot of respect.

Welcome to the New World Order! Nowadays it's nurses who fire physicians (or make up some "unprofessional" pretext for it), not the other way round.

They know that their strength is in their numbers, so when one of them gets pissed, all of them unite around her, even lie in writing if needed.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

How is it that physicians don't employ & fire their own employees? Having the ability to can someone for poor performance garners a lot of respect.

Usually you have to pay their salaries when you employ folks. If you are not paying them then chances it is coming from another source (such as a stipend).

Employment has it's advantages for sure but there can also be a lot of headaches associated with it.

 

[yappy]

Usually you have to pay their salaries when you employ folks. If you are not paying them then chances it is coming from another source (such as a stipend).

Employment has it's advantages for sure but there can also be a lot of headaches associated with it.

I understand that but the underlying financials must be in place for them to get paid now right? As a group of physicians it would be great to bill for RN services the same way a hospital does. You would even have the ability to tweak your employment model to maximize profits by using learner ratios or LPNs / techs / CNAs rather than union RNs altogether. The increased efficiency would most likely mean an extra stream of revenue for the group or solo physician as well.

More control is always better. Every RN that delivers care should be employed under that physician or their group.