Anti-URM sentiment on preAllo

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Lucca

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Hey guys, recently I've noticed that URM advantage and minority debates are increasing in frequency and ferocity in the pre-Allo forum. What do you guys think this means for admissions in the future? i'm afraid as competition increases this sort of attitude is only going to become more inflamed. I want to say that my classmates don't share these sentiments but i've been confronted with the whole "you only got in because youre hispanic" attitude in undergrad and i'm wondering if this attitude persists in medical school.

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I've been getting it left and right. It's amazing how bitter and resentful people are.
I feel someone needs to say this to all of us ....... You did not get in due to your ethnicity...... You got in because you deserve it.

At the end of the day if you don't do things that show you'd a) make a good doctor and b) show you can handle medical school and pass the boards then adcoms wouldn't waste their breath on you. You deserve to be there because you earned it.

The idea that as an URM we can walk into any med school is absurd. If that's the case none of us would have experienced the sting of a rejection letter.

When people are hurt and confused about what to do ( and this a major life decision to even apply to med school ) they can and tend to lash out. They blame other people instead of reflecting on what could be fixed and trying again. One girl was upset she didn't get an interview and blamed URMs....nevermimd the fact she applied in October. I bet if she applied early she could have her pick of schools.


Don't let the hatred and bitterness keep you down. Just always remember.... Whatever you have been given you have earned.
 
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As long as you are different people will always find a reason to hate you because of that. Just worry about yourself and those you plan to help in the future.
 
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This isn't anything new, my brother. One of the reasons I disappeared off SDN for a couple years was because of how visceral the anti-URM stuff was getting in there.

You can't let it get to you. BTW - where them Venezuelan girls at? :laugh: they down in Texas with you?
 
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Hey guys, recently I've noticed that URM advantage and minority debates are increasing in frequency and ferocity in the pre-Allo forum. What do you guys think this means for admissions in the future? i'm afraid as competition increases this sort of attitude is only going to become more inflamed. I want to say that my classmates don't share these sentiments but i've been confronted with the whole "you only got in because youre hispanic" attitude in undergrad and i'm wondering if this attitude persists in medical school.

I doubt what is posted on a pre-med message board has much bearing on admissions down the road. Even so, when you are in med school you will have much more to worry about than HOW or WHY some of your peers got in. Just my advice, but I would worry less about the masses and solely focus on making yourself as marketable to admission committees as you can. Best of luck!
 
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This isn't anything new, my brother. One of the reasons I disappeared off SDN for a couple years was because of how visceral the anti-URM stuff was getting in there.

You can't let it get to you. BTW - where them Venezuelan girls at? :laugh: they down in Texas with you?

Ohhh yah, my high school was like 20% venezuelan lol. We congregate.
 
Most of the kids in pre allo, most of the kids that apply to any type of med school, are from privileged backgrounds and have never had any type of interaction with minorities. Academically smart, but ignorant of culture and society.
 
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This isn't anything new, my brother. One of the reasons I disappeared off SDN for a couple years was because of how visceral the anti-URM stuff was getting in there.

You can't let it get to you. BTW - where them Venezuelan girls at? :laugh: they down in Texas with you?


Yup. Definitely not new. I saw the same BS in the pre-allo when I was applying 5 years ago. I either hear the, "I don't think racism exists anymore so eliminate affirmative action." Or the, "affirmative action is reverse racism." (I subsequently stopped using SDN for 4 years then came back as I started applying for residency.)

Just let it go and move on. Call me a cynic, but sparking debate with these people is pointless. It'll just get under your beautiful brown skin.
 
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I've been trying my best to ignore it, but it does have me wondering about what it will be like in med school, as a Latina getting in to top schools. I bet choosing a diverse med school will help.
 
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I was going to post a thread after seeing yet another URM one in pre-allo, but saw this. I think it's just among the bitter folks who did not get in or are getting ready to apply. This speaks to their character as well, and these kinds of folks should not be bringing you down. I do have a question though for you all. I interviewed at 9 schools and a lot of the times I was the only, or 1 of 2 black students there. Do any of you have a problem with being the token minority? Does this increase a pressure for you to represent all minorities of your background? Is it too much for you? Personally, I'll gladly take on this responsibility and it just drives my motivation. I know this is an issue because a few schools told me explicitly they'd like me to help with their minority representation and or having a diversity admin interview me. Thoughts?

Also, most of it comes from American culture. We're trained (even minorities), that minorities are a burden to society and it's okay to treat us like ****, Florida anyone? You can brush off what the haters are saying, but don't be afraid to call it out for what it is also. Stand up for what you believe in , and definitely stand up for your achievements.
 
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I'm a little concerned that some of these individuals will be our colleagues/classmates!
 
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I was going to post a thread after seeing yet another URM one in pre-allo, but saw this. I think it's just among the bitter folks who did not get in or are getting ready to apply. This speaks to their character as well, and these kinds of folks should not be bringing you down. I do have a question though for you all. I interviewed at 9 schools and a lot of the times I was the only, or 1 of 2 black students there. Do any of you have a problem with being the token minority? Does this increase a pressure for you to represent all minorities of your background? Is it too much for you? Personally, I'll gladly take on this responsibility and it just drives my motivation. I know this is an issue because a few schools told me explicitly they'd like me to help with their minority representation and or having a diversity admin interview me. Thoughts?

Also, most of it comes from American culture. We're trained (even minorities), that minorities are a burden to society and it's okay to treat us like ****, Florida anyone? You can brush off what the haters are saying, but don't be afraid to call it out for what it is also. Stand up for what you believe in , and definitely stand up for your achievements.

Out of 10 interviews I attended. I was the only black person in 7 of these interviews, and the only black male in 9 of these interviews. I was honestly really surprised, but even in my undergrad I have become used to the idea of being the token black guy or person for that matter. I am definitely okay with it, and I know it was a little tough in the beginning but I am well aware that I reached this point because of hardwork and because I deserve it. No doubt, I will and have come across people who assumed I got to where I'm at because of the color of my skin, but I have learned to not give a flying hoot about what they think and just continue to challenge myself to be better than I ever was. It is very refreshing to see so many minorities flourishing here on SDN! Congrats to everyone who has been having a successful application cycle so far, you all DESERVE, to be where you're at!
 
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Out of 10 interviews I attended. I was the only black person in 7 of these interviews, and the only black male in 9 of these interviews. I was honestly really surprised, but even in my undergrad I have become used to the idea of being the token black guy or person for that matter. I am definitely okay with it, and I know it was a little tough in the beginning but I am well aware that I reached this point because of hardwork and because I deserve it. No doubt, I will and have come across people who assumed I got to where I'm at because of the color of my skin, but I have learned to not give a flying hoot about what they think and just continue to challenge myself to be better than I ever was. It is very refreshing to see so many minorities flourishing here on SDN! Congrats to everyone who has been having a successful application cycle so far, you all DESERVE, to be where you're at!


man i feel you, only latino in 7 out of 9 interviews. crazy stuff, I am so used to an environment where I am surrounded by latinos, so this experience has been something else
 
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I'm sorry to hear about everyone's experiences. I was the only black kid in several of my interviews as well. If you're concerned about being the "token", I'd suggest going to your second look weekend and get a truer sense of the diversity of the school. When I saw the diversity at my current school's second look, I was hooked! And I never looked back. Our dean of students and chair of the anatomy department are also black, which spoke to the diversity of the faculty as well.

When I was applying, one school (which shall remain nameless) had only two black students in their class of 150. This became a buzz on Sdn URM, because it was such an anomaly! (It wasn't easy either. One of those two black students was my high school classmate, and she hated it.) My point is: many schools try their best to increase their diversity ranks for your benefit, so it's unlikely you'll be the "only." Though you may the the stark minority. Jus sayin'
 
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Have y'all seen this from black students at Harvard?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/21-black-harvard-students-share-their-experiences-through-a
(orignal tumblr here: http://itooamharvard.tumblr.com/)

I wouldn't necessarily not attend a school that had poor representation, but I would prefer a more diverse environment because I know that diversity makes schools better.
Ugh... That just pissed me off.

Powerful project. Very triggering for me personally (I've received similar comments from white students).

And I had just seen 12 Years a Slave on top of that ....

I need to go work on not hating white people now...
 
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Ugh... That just pissed me off.

Powerful project. Very triggering for me personally (I've received similar comments from white students).

And I had just seen 12 Years a Slave on top of that ....

I need to go work on not hating white people now...


While I can't help but to feel a sense a aggravation from this link, It was truly an enjoyable and enlightening read. Even though I currently attend a state university, I endure some of the same ignorance detailed in this article. For a while I thought i was the only one. Big ups to the students of Harvard for standing up for our race! Black is Beauty!
 
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Have y'all seen this from black students at Harvard?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/21-black-harvard-students-share-their-experiences-through-a
(orignal tumblr here: http://itooamharvard.tumblr.com/)

I wouldn't necessarily not attend a school that had poor representation, but I would prefer a more diverse environment because I know that diversity makes schools better.


You know what one of the young women said in that video really hit home. She felt the need to explain that she's biracial not one or the other but both.

That's so incredibly said and heartbreaking that society can't see that those who are biracial have two halves to their whole. She shouldn't have to pick one or the other nor have some outsider choose for them.
 
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Many entering medicine are of the most oblivious, ignorant and privileged segment of the American population -- by virtue of this, many have not been checked for holding sheltered views. Just be grounded and stand up for what you believe in IRL.
 
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Some URM hate is expected every year (which is sad) but this year it's been pretty crazy. Fortunately, not all people on these forums or in med school are so anti-urm or downright ignorant. Any ideas how we could use the hate and turn it into a positive? There should be no reason why many of us have to abstain from this website for years because the hate just becomes too much.

I have spoken to many hard working minorities on here and in school who have started second guessing whether they truly deserved an acceptance because stuff they read on here or are too afraid to post anything because they don't want to be attacked because of their race. RIDICULOUS.

To all of you with acceptances, congratulations. Though I do not know you personally, I am proud of you all. And all of you, regardless if you are Hispanic, Native American, or African American, inspire me.
 
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I was going to post a thread after seeing yet another URM one in pre-allo, but saw this. I think it's just among the bitter folks who did not get in or are getting ready to apply. This speaks to their character as well, and these kinds of folks should not be bringing you down. I do have a question though for you all. I interviewed at 9 schools and a lot of the times I was the only, or 1 of 2 black students there. Do any of you have a problem with being the token minority? Does this increase a pressure for you to represent all minorities of your background? Is it too much for you? Personally, I'll gladly take on this responsibility and it just drives my motivation. I know this is an issue because a few schools told me explicitly they'd like me to help with their minority representation and or having a diversity admin interview me. Thoughts?

Also, most of it comes from American culture. We're trained (even minorities), that minorities are a burden to society and it's okay to treat us like ****, Florida anyone? You can brush off what the haters are saying, but don't be afraid to call it out for what it is also. Stand up for what you believe in , and definitely stand up for your achievements.

I have experienced this on the Latino end. I usually reply something like:

"Listen. I can speak for my people. My people are 1 building in 1 part of Barquisimeto in 1 part of Lara in 1 part of Venezuela and my people are in one neighborhood in Houston in one part of Texas here in the US. That's all I got for you."

However, if they are asking about south american culture, food, or living standards I will gladly stand up for, at least, Colombia and Vnzla because I've experienced those places.
 
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I was going to post a thread after seeing yet another URM one in pre-allo, but saw this. I think it's just among the bitter folks who did not get in or are getting ready to apply. This speaks to their character as well, and these kinds of folks should not be bringing you down. I do have a question though for you all. I interviewed at 9 schools and a lot of the times I was the only, or 1 of 2 black students there. Do any of you have a problem with being the token minority? Does this increase a pressure for you to represent all minorities of your background? Is it too much for you? Personally, I'll gladly take on this responsibility and it just drives my motivation. I know this is an issue because a few schools told me explicitly they'd like me to help with their minority representation and or having a diversity admin interview me. Thoughts?

Also, most of it comes from American culture. We're trained (even minorities), that minorities are a burden to society and it's okay to treat us like ****, Florida anyone? You can brush off what the haters are saying, but don't be afraid to call it out for what it is also. Stand up for what you believe in , and definitely stand up for your achievements.

I've been used to being the only black person amongst my classmates so I went into my interviews expecting to be the only 1 of 2 or so black students there. However, some schools I've interviewed at happen to be great at interviewing diverse applicants and I was happily surprised to be in the company of such great applicants.
I've been on this website for a long time now and there was a point where I just stopped coming to it because it was so bad. I still don't post in the URM threads, because not only am I afraid of what I might say, but this place tends to be a breeding ground for super type-A personalities that will never see things your way, nor will they ever open their eyes to see that there's a whole world out there that exists beyond their own. I'll just continue to go on my way and be the kickass doc I know I'm gonna be.
 
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I was part of those threads in pre-allo, I was naive to the focused ball of hate there. I stayed away from SDN for several years, I now remember why. Happy I did, going it on my own got me accepted.

I found the anti-URM nature disgusting, absolutely.
 
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I haven't really ever gotten any rude comments from people who are not my race, yet. It could be no one dares to or I have just been surrounded by great people. If anything I have gotten more love from people from other races. I have only receive rude comments from people who come from Central America, they think they are better than Mexicans. WTF! :shrug:
 
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Hey guys, recently I've noticed that URM advantage and minority debates are increasing in frequency and ferocity in the pre-Allo forum. What do you guys think this means for admissions in the future? i'm afraid as competition increases this sort of attitude is only going to become more inflamed. I want to say that my classmates don't share these sentiments but i've been confronted with the whole "you only got in because youre hispanic" attitude in undergrad and i'm wondering if this attitude persists in medical school.

Try the pre-dent forms as well. It's difficult to read things along the lines of "URM have it easier therefore just get in with lower stats". Makes me cringe. I just feel sorry for their mentality in the end.
 
This is just how it is, minorities with lower grades are more likely to be accepted than individuals with slightly "better" stats. I use quotes because GPA and MCAT may be objective, but other aspects obviously are not. I am a young white man from a poorer background, and I am guilty of having some resentment. I do have friends that are black and hispanic with wealthier, college educated parents which I do not have but went to my undergrad for free, while I have plenty of loans. It has been hard to grasp, but I guess I am saying that there are two sides here. Some statements people make are incredibly ridiculous and ignorant though. But then again, its also offensive to start throwing around blanket statements about everyone else being privileged. I could probably talk about this all day, but I just wanted to give my two cents.
 
Ugh. It makes me freaking sick to see it. I think it's because the cycle is coming to a close and some people who didn't get it want to blame their failures on everything but themselves. The ignorance in pre allo is stifling at times. I think many people over there think that that having a high GPA and a high MCAT doesn't mean you "deserve" to be a doctor and they totally rule out all other factors in life.

Sidenote, I've been facebook creeping my class, and there is one black guy. One. Out of 220. But I'm sure that guy totally stole your med school spot.

/snark
 
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While the universe has always had people who are simply racist, I'd like to suggest that most people simply aren't racist...even most people on an internet forum aren't racist. I don't say that because I think most people are particularly noble, I'm saying that most people are too self-centered and self-serving to bother using race a reason to not like someone...they don't need a reason because they don't care much about anyone who isn't looking them in the mirror each morning.

There are more people who don't like the admissions preference shown to URM applicants, but that is very different than saying they don't like URM applicants. Much like many parts of life in the US have shown a statistical advantage to being white and male, the application process for medical school (with the important caveat, that a lot of hopeful people don't make it to application) shows an equally clear statistical advantage to being a URM. Discussions about these topics should remain philosophical and civil but this being a stressful process with less spaces than applicants, people start talking aggressively and get out of hand.

If you got a seat, be happy and don't look back. If you somehow feel a need to prove you earned it to an internet forum, match to the specialty that makes you happy and pass your boards. point proven.
 
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@lbadams11: Sorry, I just have to do this.....
I don't want to call you out or anything, but your post just highlights one of the major issues I have with the whole anti-white/pro Aff. Action discussion. What makes you think that you are more deserving of the medical amdission than those white friends of yours? Because their parents are college educated they don't deserve a free ride? Is that the only determining factor for such generous financial aid? What about their grades and extracurriculars? Volunteer work?

I know you aren't trying to start a flame war, but comments like yours are the issue. Being resentful of wealthy whites for earning a medical school spot that you don't have are just a symptom of the larger sentiment of minority entitlement that this whole anti-white/pro affirmative action discussion is based around. You're ahead of the curve by at least admitting that you feel resentful; most people won't even say that out loud. But even so, that line of thinking is exactly the problem.

I think it's also worth noting that there are entitlements that minorities enjoy as well. Your post reeks of racism all the way around. It shows your inability to look at things from any perspective other than your own.
 
It does suck. Ppl will assume you only got in because you're a URM, not realizing you can get rejected just as easily as any white guy if you're a crappy applicant (I would know). I knew plenty of white kids who got big scholarships even if we had the same grades and other stats and I didn't. But like most of the ppl on here have said you just have to ignore that part of it and go ahead and prove all the haters wrong. Also the discussion of URM vs disadvantaged makes me mad because they're both considered by adcoms! You may not be labeled a URM but you're given an extra look just like a URM by being disadvantaged, so I really don't get why those ppl get upset about URMs....
 
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I really don't get why so many people don't seem to understand the concept of privilege.

Le sigh
 
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I think it's because people don't understand the full definition of privilege. The average person thinks privilege means that they've had it easier or have been given handouts in life. I'm going to quote this article here:



I think the bolded really nails why it's so hard for those in privileged groups to admit their privilege.

I think it helps if you are on both ends of it. Like I'm white. I benefit from white privilege. But I'm also a woman and queer.
 
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I really don't get why so many people don't seem to understand the concept of privilege.

Le sigh
I've always felt that looking at certain groups as having privilege that is not afforded to others is a backwards way of looking at it. Those of certain minority/religious/LGBT groups are really getting screwed out of being treated the way everyone else should be treated. Privilege implies something that is in excess of what should be the norm, when in fact the norm should be equal to what the "privileged" experience. It makes it feel like social activists/scientists are trying to lower the high bar rather than raise the low one, and I've really never liked it.

That being said, a lot of people from wealthy/white/educated/whatever backgrounds fail to see just how much it could suck to be born under any circumstances that are different than their own, with that I agree. There's a serious lack of empathy between different groups in our society, and people seem to be generally awful at putting themselves in the shoes of others.
 
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Out of 10 interviews I attended. I was the only black person in 7 of these interviews, and the only black male in 9 of these interviews. I was honestly really surprised, but even in my undergrad I have become used to the idea of being the token black guy or person for that matter. I am definitely okay with it, and I know it was a little tough in the beginning but I am well aware that I reached this point because of hardwork and because I deserve it. No doubt, I will and have come across people who assumed I got to where I'm at because of the color of my skin, but I have learned to not give a flying hoot about what they think and just continue to challenge myself to be better than I ever was. It is very refreshing to see so many minorities flourishing here on SDN! Congrats to everyone who has been having a successful application cycle so far, you all DESERVE, to be where you're at!
In four interviews, I saw one URM candidate. Out of what had to be like, 60+ people total. In today's diverse medical environment, I could hardly believe it.
 
How are URMs perceived in medical schools? Can anyone chime in?
 
It's possible there is a bit of a strawman being created here. It is not necessary to think that racial discrimination/privilege does not exist in order to disagree with the admission's creation of URM privilege. There are a number of people who believe that racial discrimination exists and simply disagree as to how to address it. Some of us just think the best approach is address the discrimination where it begins as opposed to attempting to equalize it with more discrimination further down the road.

To answer @v above, I can't speak for anyone else...but I would perceive them as classmates.
 
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I'd like to add another tid-bit here. When I was a sophmore in high school I went to a Hispanic Youth Symposium which was like summer camp type of thing for Hispanic students with good grades giving them advice on getting into college and working, etc. Of the thousands of kids there from my state, it was only a handful that were thinking about going into anything healthcare related, most of them were more into getting business and law degress than anything else. I think this creates part of the disparity of why there aren't many Hispanic applicants (as well as other minorities) in medical schools. So maybe, it's not that these schools want to pick a URM just because they're a URM, but because it's rare to come by a minority applicant although patient populations are changing. I want to stress though that just because they consider you a URM, it doesn't mean that you're automatically going to be given a chance with crappy or mediocre stats. Believe me, with my mediocre stats junior year, it didn't matter that I was a URM, I got rejected (or never offered a chance) by every school I applied to. The advantage is only when you are at least somewhat of a competitive applicant and that's what a lot of ORMs don't get. I mean some ppl make it sound like you don't even have to try, you just show up, mark your race/ethnicity and they're just throwing you acceptances and scholarships everywhere lol
 
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I'd like to add another tid-bit here. When I was a sophmore in high school I went to a Hispanic Youth Symposium which was like summer camp type of thing for Hispanic students with good grades giving them advice on getting into college and working, etc. Of the thousands of kids there from my state, it was only a handful that were thinking about going into anything healthcare related, most of them were more into getting business and law degress than anything else. I think this creates part of the disparity of why there aren't many Hispanic applicants (as well as other minorities) in medical schools. So maybe, it's not that these schools want to pick a URM just because they're a URM, but because it's rare to come by a minority applicant although patient populations are changing. I want to stress though that just because they consider you a URM, it doesn't mean that you're automatically going to be given a chance with crappy or mediocre stats. Believe me, with my mediocre stats junior year, it didn't matter that I was a URM, I got rejected (or never offered a chance) by every school I applied to. The advantage is only when you are at least somewhat of a competitive applicant and that's what a lot of ORMs don't get. I mean some ppl make it sound like you don't even have to try, you just show up, mark your race/ethnicity and they're just throwing you acceptances and scholarships everywhere lol


I think you hit a lot of hit on the head. This does have a lot to do with application selection. I've read publications written by some admissions directors that touch on this very issue, which is a real issue. On top of that, URM candidates are the most likely (not to be confused with a majority of them) to return to places such as those they came from to work. These are both major parts in selection criteria of URM candidates and are both needed, especially in certain regions of this country.

I agree that there is no such thing as an automatic acceptance, for anyone. To be fair though, I don't think anyone here can deny there is a quantitative discrepancy in admissions standards between certain racial and ethnic groups. It is these discrepancies that are seen and to some groups raise the question of 'why do I have to be better and reach a higher level of excellence than someone else just to have the same opportunity?'. I think this is a very fair question as well, in fact, it is the same question that many disenfranchised groups have asked for centuries, not just in this country, but all over the world in probably every time period imaginable. So to discount one group of people for questioning the validity and merit of an institutional bias, real or imagined, with BS phrases like 'check your privilege' in my opinion are pathetic. I think that a lot of people view things like this through the lens of hypocrisy. On one hand, you will see certain groups of people shouting that they are being discriminated against, and then this same group happily accepts policies that might favor them over another. I'm sure most reasonable people can understand that there exists a disconnect here.

I also think it is interesting that both of these issues are the same for different groups. For example, feeling the need to point out the obviousness of benefits that are accrued to white people is a little bit of a spit in the face to white people. I don't think it is hard to see why people won't take to this well as it is really a belittling of anything they have accomplished in their life. It is literally the exact same problem that URM's face when people assume that the only reason they made it into a place like medical school was because of admissions bias. It is unfathomable to me how one can protest the thoughts of one, but actively promote the other. Its a bit more hypocrisy than I can swallow, whoever it comes from. One thing that is consistent among all groups of people is that, in general, we tend to feel more comfortable around people who look, think, and act like us. Nobody is immune from this. Were the country to be composed of 70% chinese people, there would be bias towards ethnic chinese and on and on and on. So for a URM to literally go out of his/her way to remind someone who is white that he/she has privilege is just childish, belittling, and likely comes from someone who as at best a little bit prejudice, and at worst, at racist.
 
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I think you hit a lot of hit on the head. This does have a lot to do with application selection. I've read publications written by some admissions directors that touch on this very issue, which is a real issue. On top of that, URM candidates are the most likely (not to be confused with a majority of them) to return to places such as those they came from to work. These are both major parts in selection criteria of URM candidates and are both needed, especially in certain regions of this country.

I agree that there is no such thing as an automatic acceptance, for anyone. To be fair though, I don't think anyone here can deny there is a quantitative discrepancy in admissions standards between certain racial and ethnic groups. It is these discrepancies that are seen and to some groups raise the question of 'why do I have to be better and reach a higher level of excellence than someone else just to have the same opportunity?'. I think this is a very fair question as well, in fact, it is the same question that many disenfranchised groups have asked for centuries, not just in this country, but all over the world in probably every time period imaginable. So to discount one group of people for questioning the validity and merit of an institutional bias, real or imagined, with BS phrases like 'check your privilege' in my opinion are pathetic. I think that a lot of people view things like this through the lens of hypocrisy. On one hand, you will see certain groups of people shouting that they are being discriminated against, and then this same group happily accepts policies that might favor them over another. I'm sure most reasonable people can understand that there exists a disconnect here.

I also think it is interesting that both of these issues are the same for different groups. For example, feeling the need to point out the obviousness of benefits that are accrued to white people is a little bit of a spit in the face to white people. I don't think it is hard to see why people won't take to this well as it is really a belittling of anything they have accomplished in their life. It is literally the exact same problem that URM's face when people assume that the only reason they made it into a place like medical school was because of admissions bias. It is unfathomable to me how one can protest the thoughts of one, but actively promote the other. Its a bit more hypocrisy than I can swallow, whoever it comes from. One thing that is consistent among all groups of people is that, in general, we tend to feel more comfortable around people who look, think, and act like us. Nobody is immune from this. Were the country to be composed of 70% chinese people, there would be bias towards ethnic chinese and on and on and on. So for a URM to literally go out of his/her way to remind someone who is white that he/she has privilege is just childish, belittling, and likely comes from someone who as at best a little bit prejudice, and at worst, at racist.

I think you hit a lot of hit on the head. This does have a lot to do with application selection. I've read publications written by some admissions directors that touch on this very issue, which is a real issue. On top of that, URM candidates are the most likely (not to be confused with a majority of them) to return to places such as those they came from to work. These are both major parts in selection criteria of URM candidates and are both needed, especially in certain regions of this country.

I agree that there is no such thing as an automatic acceptance, for anyone. To be fair though, I don't think anyone here can deny there is a quantitative discrepancy in admissions standards between certain racial and ethnic groups. It is these discrepancies that are seen and to some groups raise the question of 'why do I have to be better and reach a higher level of excellence than someone else just to have the same opportunity?'. I think this is a very fair question as well, in fact, it is the same question that many disenfranchised groups have asked for centuries, not just in this country, but all over the world in probably every time period imaginable. So to discount one group of people for questioning the validity and merit of an institutional bias, real or imagined, with BS phrases like 'check your privilege' in my opinion are pathetic. I think that a lot of people view things like this through the lens of hypocrisy. On one hand, you will see certain groups of people shouting that they are being discriminated against, and then this same group happily accepts policies that might favor them over another. I'm sure most reasonable people can understand that there exists a disconnect here.

I also think it is interesting that both of these issues are the same for different groups. For example, feeling the need to point out the obviousness of benefits that are accrued to white people is a little bit of a spit in the face to white people. I don't think it is hard to see why people won't take to this well as it is really a belittling of anything they have accomplished in their life. It is literally the exact same problem that URM's face when people assume that the only reason they made it into a place like medical school was because of admissions bias. It is unfathomable to me how one can protest the thoughts of one, but actively promote the other. Its a bit more hypocrisy than I can swallow, whoever it comes from. One thing that is consistent among all groups of people is that, in general, we tend to feel more comfortable around people who look, think, and act like us. Nobody is immune from this. Were the country to be composed of 70% chinese people, there would be bias towards ethnic chinese and on and on and on. So for a URM to literally go out of his/her way to remind someone who is white that he/she has privilege is just childish, belittling, and likely comes from someone who as at best a little bit prejudice, and at worst, at racist.

Yes, I definitely agree with this. I'm sure if I was in the position of ORM's I would feel the same way because I bet it sucks to work really hard and not get recognized the same. I wish there was a better way to deal with this than the way it is now. I feel like affirmative action and other policies like it are a double-edged sword because they sort of help out the minorities, but create more animosity towards them only continuing the division between people of different races/ethnicities. The only thing ORM's can do now is realize that it's going to stay this way until more minorities are present in the field. I'm sure once that happens, URM's will no longer get preference over ORM's the way they do now. Like I said, I can totally understand the ORM's. My family is not rich, but we never qualified for any government aid although we felt we needed it, and my parents are way in over their heads with debt, but schools don't take this into account. So although I have had financial hardships it's never going to be recognized like the person who came from an inner city and was on welfare most of their lives. It seems unfair to me because I don't benefit from it, but I don't attack those who do benefit because it's not their own fault. I guess it hurts when ppl attack you for something that is not even your decision. I didn't chose to be a URM the same way someone else didn't chose to be a ORM.
 
Maybe we should all just not answer that question on the AMCAS app and then no one would have to worry about it lol what would the adcoms do when everybody is "declined to answer"(or whatever the choice is) for that question??
 
In four interviews, I saw one URM candidate. Out of what had to be like, 60+ people total. In today's diverse medical environment, I could hardly believe it.

I've creeped on my class on Facebook. As fair as I can tell, there is ONE black person. In a class of 221.
 
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I've creeped on my class on Facebook. As fair as I can tell, there is ONE black person. In a class of 221.

I attended 11 interviews...discounting the 2 interviews I did for HBCU programs (Howard and Drew) I saw 2 Latinos and 5 black people at the other 9. Out of what I would imagine was close to 200 people. Very sparse.
 
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I really don't get why so many people don't seem to understand the concept of privilege.

Le sigh

To be honest, the phrase has left a bad taste in many peoples mouths, particular recipients of it. Too many times it is used as a conversation stopper, uttered in a shrill unthinking way that reveals defensiveness rather than a willingness to engage.

I don't mind it used properly as you are now, but it's infuriating to see it thrown out casually by people who themselves don't really grasp what it means and how to articulate it.

Like any other casual usage of a highly technical term, caution must be used. You can't bandy it about and expect the recipient will happily accept "you just don't understand".
 
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I've creeped on my class on Facebook. As fair as I can tell, there is ONE black person. In a class of 221.

I attended 11 interviews...discounting the 2 interviews I did for HBCU programs (Howard and Drew) I saw 2 Latinos and 5 black people at the other 9. Out of what I would imagine was close to 200 people. Very sparse.

I honestly think it helps to build confidence when you see people who looks like you striving towards a similar goal, especially in something as academically rigorous as medicine. One of the reasons I'm attending an HBCU even though I have acceptances to other schools is because most of my classmates, professors, and clinical professors will be URM also.
 
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I honestly think it helps to build confidence when you see people who looks like you striving towards a similar goal, especially in something as academically rigorous as medicine. One of the reasons I'm attending an HBCU even though I have acceptances to other schools is because most of my classmates, professors, and clinical professors will be URM also.

Totally understandable. If you can't see it you can't be it. My bff did her undergrad at Howard and absolutely loved it. I've got nothing but good things to say about HBCUs
 
I know that everyone's experience is unique in its own way, but 20 years ago when I completed my first undergrad years I graduated with two bachelors, without having one black professor. In fact I only had 2 minorities period, a Hispanic man and Asian woman. I don't think I felt for one second my professors would work against me because I may have been the only black student in the class, primarily because I busted my butt, went to class every day, and showed to them I wanted to give my best in the class. I don't have a large enough sample size this time around to know, but I am sure the professors are less inclined to be racist today. If you spend your time knowingly being the minority student, it will be less time to spend trying to be the best. You get into med school because a committee thinks you are the best candidate for their program's success and your own. You met the admission standard, now the only other standard you have to live up to is your own, what anyone else thinks means absolutely nothing.
 
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I know that everyone's experience is unique in its own way, but 20 years ago when I completed my first undergrad years I graduated with two bachelors, without having one black professor. In fact I only had 2 minorities period, a Hispanic man and Asian woman. I don't think I felt for one second my professors would work against me because I may have been the only black student in the class, primarily because I busted my butt, went to class every day, and showed to them I wanted to give my best in the class. I don't have a large enough sample size this time around to know, but I am sure the professors are less inclined to be racist today. If you spend your time knowingly being the minority student, it will be less time to spend trying to be the best. You get into med school because a committee thinks you are the best candidate for their program's success and your own. You met the admission standard, now the only other standard you have to live up to is your own, what anyone else thinks means absolutely nothing.

The sad thing is in my own experience, 20 years later, I have not had a single black professor. I have completed my undergrad and have 2 degrees. I am now taking post-bac. classes. I'm closing in on almost 190 credits, not one black professor. I was thinking about this the other day.

With respects to being URM, it's funny because I've been told I shouldn't worry as much or work as hard since I've got an "advantage". It's quite invalidating and dismissive of the hard work I have poured into all of this...
 
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