Anyone have questions about OMFS residency or the application process?

[Ionz]

Is it possible to convert from a 4 year to a 6 year from the applicant's perspective? Say, for example, you match to a 4yr program at a residency which has both streams. Can you make a case for yourself that may be acceptable to convert to a 6yr internally (e.g. after PGY-1)?

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[CMistry]

Another one!

Is there such a think as pre-matching in OMFS residencies or is it pretty much 'All In' through the Match?

It is all done through the Match, with a few post-Match spots (5-10) that programs didn't fill. No pre-Match. Also nice F40 in your avatar.

Is it possible to convert from a 4 year to a 6 year from the applicant's perspective? Say, for example, you match to a 4yr program at a residency which has both streams. Can you make a case for yourself that may be acceptable to convert to a 6yr internally (e.g. after PGY-1)?

Honestly this would be a case-by-case basis. AKA I don't know, but I don't think it's as easy as you think... Programs need a certain amount of residents at all times, by doing that switch you would be affecting the resident flow.

 

[InspiredDDS]

If and when I apply to OMFS, I'll be a married woman in my early thirties. Sometimes I wonder if I will be overlooked as an applicant because of my age and sex. I'm not sure if women are more likely than men to leave a program due to change of heart or desire to have children, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were viewed as higher risk applicants. Any insights?

Thanks

 

[CMistry]

If and when I apply to OMFS, I'll be a married woman in my early thirties. Sometimes I wonder if I will be overlooked as an applicant because of my age and sex. I'm not sure if women are more likely than men to leave a program due to change of heart or desire to have children, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were viewed as higher risk applicants. Any insights?

Thanks

You know I'm not really qualified to answer that question but I'll give you my $0.02. OMFS involves a long, grueling residency that will dominate a woman's childbearing years and certainly is not family friendly. I think that if you can realize and accept that, you won't have any problems. Every year there are very few female applicants compared to males, however as long as they're qualified academically I generally do not see any issues with them getting interviews and matching. Most of them have interviewed at a similar number of programs to their male counterparts and they DO match. I do think it will be tough to find a program you are comfortable with, but you can face that battle when you come to it. I am familiar with some programs that are concerned about taking female residents, but on the other hand others actively seek them out.

 

[InspiredDDS]

You know I'm not really qualified to answer that question but I'll give you my $0.02. OMFS involves a long, grueling residency that will dominate a woman's childbearing years and certainly is not family friendly. I think that if you can realize and accept that, you won't have any problems. Every year there are very few female applicants compared to males, however as long as they're qualified academically I generally do not see any issues with them getting interviews and matching. Most of them have interviewed at a similar number of programs to their male counterparts and they DO match. I do think it will be tough to find a program you are comfortable with, but you can face that battle when you come to it. I am familiar with some programs that are concerned about taking female residents, but on the other hand others actively seek them out.

Thank you for sharing CMistry. Would you mind elaborating on which programs actively seek women out? And would you recommend focusing on getting externships at those programs rather than the ones that have concerns?

 

[CMistry]

Thank you for sharing CMistry. Would you mind elaborating on which programs actively seek women out? And would you recommend focusing on getting externships at those programs rather than the ones that have concerns?

Check your messages, and yes I would definitely recommend you extern at those programs if possible.

 

[soydentista]

Can you practice general dentistry while OMS residency? Like I am a den hyg going to dds school and still will work as hyg till done. Can I work as dds while in OMS? Thanks

 

[CMistry]

Can you practice general dentistry while OMS residency? Like I am a den hyg going to dds school and still will work as hyg till done. Can I work as dds while in OMS? Thanks

Some programs do let you moonlight to practice general dentistry. I doubt you'll have as much free time as you do in dental school, but during certain periods it is possible (generally during the medical school years of a 6yr program).

 

[sb21992]

Let's say career-wise, you want to set up a clinic/practice inside of a hospital where you do typical bread and butter procedures, but also be on call sometimes to do more complicated procedures as needed (maybe a 60/40 split or something). Do you need an MD degree in order to gain hospital privileges for this kind of career goal?

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

How are new OMFS grads doing? It seems like private practice has gotten A LOT harder over the years (costs, laws, etc). Reimbursement seems to be going down. Do you think that with the rise of corporates we will see OMFS as traveling docs, shifting from one chain location to another to chuck wizzies?

 

[CMistry]

Let's say career-wise, you want to set up a clinic/practice inside of a hospital where you do typical bread and butter procedures, but also be on call sometimes to do more complicated procedures as needed (maybe a 60/40 split or something). Do you need an MD degree in order to gain hospital privileges for this kind of career goal?

No.

How are new OMFS grads doing? It seems like private practice has gotten A LOT harder over the years (costs, laws, etc). Reimbursement seems to be going down. Do you think that with the rise of corporates we will see OMFS as traveling docs, shifting from one chain location to another to chuck wizzies?

OMFS on the whole is doing fine... the average income continues to increase. New grads have it hard (overworked, underpaid), but I'm not sure that this hasn't always been the case.

 

[Concepcion10]

What is a reasonable starting income across the nation?
Average private practice... No outliers

 

[CMistry]

What is a reasonable starting income across the nation?
Average private practice... No outliers

From what I've seen it's $200-300k, but it's not like I'm job hunting right now.

 

[shiftparadigm]

Thank you for sharing CMistry. Would you mind elaborating on which programs actively seek women out? And would you recommend focusing on getting externships at those programs rather than the ones that have concerns?

I'd actually love to know the answer to this question too, although it is slightly discouraging to me that some programs have concerns about accepting females at all.

 

[soydentista]

Do you have to start paying student loans while you are in the oms residency,?

 

[CMistry]

Do you have to start paying student loans while you are in the oms residency,?

No, if you are in school or any hospital-based residency you can defer your loans.

 

[halfdocked]

Some programs do let you moonlight to practice general dentistry. I doubt you'll have as much free time as you do in dental school, but during certain periods it is possible (generally during the medical school years of a 6yr program).

well...that is concerning....I currently work while in dental school....about 24 hours a week...so your saying that you have LESS time in OMFS residency? I had pipe dreams of doing an OMFS residency but working part time too....cant skip out on family trips to Disney world!

 

[CMistry]

well...that is concerning....I currently work while in dental school....about 24 hours a week...so your saying that you have LESS time in OMFS residency? I had pipe dreams of doing an OMFS residency but working part time too....cant skip out on family trips to Disney world!

Yes you will have much less time in OMFS residency than you do in dental school. It is not uncommon to work 80-100 hours/wk at the hospital. Some people moonlight during med school training, if you go the 6yr track.

 

[Ferneezy]

I currently work while in dental school....about 24 hours a week

doing what? genuinely curious

 

[soydentista]

Can you tell us about any emergency situation that you had been exposed to in the hospitals? Had any of those events changed you as a person? ?

 

[CMistry]

Can you tell us about any emergency situation that you had been exposed to in the hospitals? Had any of those events changed you as a person? ?

In dental school I had a patient have an M.I. and another have a seizure. As a result I am much more composed when things go south now. Additionally, I now actually try to remember the algorithms we all learn for treating medical emergencies.

If you are talking about very morbid / death experiences in the hospital, I have certainly had those as well. I have had several of my patients (most on internal medicine) die while I am in the hospital, some right in front of me. It is usually the social situation, not the medical disease, that is distressing. They have shaped me greatly but are very personal and not really relevant to this thread.

 

[obeserabbit]

Hi, thanks for doing this. Just had a few questions..
- Which dental school did you attend?
- How close are you with your coresidents? Are you guys friends, or is it more of a coworker relationship?
- How much actual free time do you have in a typical day, i.e. time to hang out, watch TV, read a novel, exercise, etc.?
- How much sleep do you get per night (on average)?

 

[CMistry]

Hi, thanks for doing this. Just had a few questions..
- Which dental school did you attend?

University of Maryland

- How close are you with your coresidents? Are you guys friends, or is it more of a coworker relationship?

I am friends with my co-residents. We hang out outside of work.

- How much actual free time do you have in a typical day, i.e. time to hang out, watch TV, read a novel, exercise, etc.?

This is very rotation-dependent. I'll assume you're asking when I'm on OMFS service... probably 2-3 hours/day.

- How much sleep do you get per night (on average)?

Again, this is very rotation-dependent. While on OMFS I average about 5 hours/night, but the range is ~0-7.

 

[womboona]

University of Maryland

I am friends with my co-residents. We hang out outside of work.

This is very rotation-dependent. I'll assume you're asking when I'm on OMFS service... probably 2-3 hours/day.

Again, this is very rotation-dependent. While on OMFS I average about 5 hours/night, but the range is ~0-7.

Can you expand on how the rotations vary? Mainly difficulty level and status of your mental + physical health during the various rotations? ie general surgery, anesthesia, OMFS, and medical school?

 

[CMistry]

Can you expand on how the rotations vary? Mainly difficulty level and status of your mental + physical health during the various rotations? ie general surgery, anesthesia, OMFS, and medical school?

I am sure this has some variation at each program, but in general it is probably similar to how we have it here at Parkland/UT Southwestern.

Med School - the work is not too difficult (granted you just want to get by), it can seem trivial after graduating DS, but plenty of time for hobbies/extracurriculars
Gen Surg - you are worked hard, but it's not the horror story people used to have (thanks to the ACGME); not much free time
Anesthesia - pretty good hours, lots of learning, most OMFS residents love this rotation
OMFS - pretty brutal hours, little sleep, not much time for outings, but hey, you're doing what you love

 

[SearedTuna]

I've heard uic is a 6 year that doesn't have you pay tuition. Do you happen to know of any programs that are more financially friendly. For example, they offer a stipend all six years, or you break even your two med school years and are provided a stipend the other 4 yrs? Or even programs that have very low tuitions. I have a large amount of debt and am just looking Into more financially realistic 6 yrs. Thank you very much

 

[CMistry]

I've heard uic is a 6 year that doesn't have you pay tuition. Do you happen to know of any programs that are more financially friendly. For example, they offer a stipend all six years, or you break even your two med school years and are provided a stipend the other 4 yrs? Or even programs that have very low tuitions. I have a large amount of debt and am just looking Into more financially realistic 6 yrs. Thank you very much

Programs change every year and what I know is from when I applied 3 years ago. I am sure there are a few programs out there that cover med school tuition, but I'm not sure what they are (Louisville? UPENN?)

 

[Contach]

Programs change every year and what I know is from when I applied 3 years ago. I am sure there are a few programs out there that cover med school tuition, but I'm not sure what they are (Louisville? UPENN?)

UPENN pays you a full resident stipend throughout your 6 years, but you pay for 2-3 years of medical school ($45k-ish). I think Pitt is similar to this deal, but the medical school may be cheaper.

 

[WiscDent]

Hey CMistry, first of all, thanks for this entire thread. Second, I'm coming to the end of my first year in dental school and I'm trying to figure out what I should do with the ~3 months that I have off. What do you recommend doing? volunteering, research, etc? I'm trying to volunteer in a third world country possibly south america where I can shadow extractions and all that goodness. but I'm also thinking about doing some research (although it may not be relevant to OMS. What do you think? I've heard that research is mainly for those wanting to go into ortho whereas externships and shadowing are for OMS. Do most OMS applicants have related research? Let me know what you think. thanks

 

[CMistry]

Hey CMistry, first of all, thanks for this entire thread. Second, I'm coming to the end of my first year in dental school and I'm trying to figure out what I should do with the ~3 months that I have off. What do you recommend doing? volunteering, research, etc? I'm trying to volunteer in a third world country possibly south america where I can shadow extractions and all that goodness. but I'm also thinking about doing some research (although it may not be relevant to OMS. What do you think? I've heard that research is mainly for those wanting to go into ortho whereas externships and shadowing are for OMS. Do most OMS applicants have related research? Let me know what you think. thanks

You could do a few externships, but they would probably be observation only. Research is a good idea, better if it's OMS-related. The mission trip sounds like a lot of fun, but in all honesty won't really help you with your OMFS application. I would also devote a good portion of your summer to just relaxing... you have a long road ahead of you.

 

[sgv]

Do you know if AAOMS regulates how many residency programs remain open to control supply and demand?

 

[CMistry]

Do you know if AAOMS regulates how many residency programs remain open to control supply and demand?

I'm not sure, but I do know that AAOMS sets the requirements for what every resident must accomplish in training. Otherwise a program would not be accredited. So in that way, yes.

I've heard the main difficulty in opening new OMFS programs is the referrals and case #s. Not to mention obtaining hospital privileges for a group of residents is surely not an easy task. All of this makes it much harder than, say, an ortho program which really just needs the clinic and some billboards.

 

[dmdluffy]

I think opening an OMS program is the same as a DDS/DMD program in that CODA either approves or fails a programs accreditation bases on CODA and AAOMS standards.. No one can say an institution can't open a program. But because opening an OMS residency is way more difficult than a predoctoral or ortho residency, it sort of limits itself.

 

[womboona]

In terms of research involvement, would doing an actual basic sciences bench project study be more beneficial than just helping out OS resident or attending with retrospective studies?

One might be more involved and time consuming, while the other might provide more OS knowledge and contact with the department's attending and faculty. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

 

[sgv]

In terms of research involvement, would doing an actual basic sciences bench project study be more beneficial than just helping out OS resident or attending with retrospective studies?

One might be more involved and time consuming, while the other might provide more OS knowledge and contact with the department's attending and faculty. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Should one attempt a long HPV (wet lab) project with small likelihood of actually finishing the project or should one attempt a short survey type project with the oral surgery department with high likelihood of finishing the project? A part of me wants to get to know my oral surgery department and another part of me wants to be in a wet lab. I'd rather do the smaller project with the oral surgery department due to time constraints and my wanting to be mentored by an oral surgery faculty. I think I may have already asked this.

 

[CMistry]

In terms of research involvement, would doing an actual basic sciences bench project study be more beneficial than just helping out OS resident or attending with retrospective studies?

One might be more involved and time consuming, while the other might provide more OS knowledge and contact with the department's attending and faculty. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

An OMFS research project is better than a basic science bench project. This is because it will be a good piece of conversation during your interviews and it will enhance your understanding of OMFS. A basic science project will only improve your understanding of research, which is not a focus in any OMFS residency.

 

[CMistry]

Should one attempt a long HPV (wet lab) project with small likelihood of actually finishing the project or should one attempt a short survey type project with the oral surgery department with high likelihood of finishing the project? A part of me wants to get to know my oral surgery department and another part of me wants to be in a wet lab. I'd rather do the smaller project with the oral surgery department due to time constraints and my wanting to be mentored by an oral surgery faculty. I think I may have already asked this.

Above answer also applies to you. Working with the OMFS department is much more valuable than an unrelated project.

 

[RunninUWorld]

Hey CMistry, thanks for taking the time to answers questions. To the best of your knowledge which fellowships if any discriminate against 4 yr vs. 6 yr graduates. I would assume maybe plastics and oncology would lean more toward 6 yr graduates, while craniofacial, TMD and peds cranio would not.

 

[CMistry]

Hey CMistry, thanks for taking the time to answers questions. To the best of your knowledge which fellowships if any discriminate against 4 yr vs. 6 yr graduates. I would assume maybe plastics and oncology would lean more toward 6 yr graduates, while craniofacial, TMD and peds cranio would not.

Oncology / microvascular definitely has a strong bias for 6yr, and "true" plastic surgery fellowships require it (though doing such is practically a departure from OMFS) . I believe some craniofacial fellowships also have a bias for 6yr grads. Cosmetic and TMD fellowships have no problem with either track. Again I'm only a 2/6 so I'm not 100% on all of this.

 

[straightteeth]

Hi CMistry, how about genetic research regarding craniofacial deformity with the NIH, will it be consider at least a bit for OMFS program? Please advise, thanks.

 

[straightteeth]

And which track it weight more? Thanks

 

[straightteeth]

Check your messages, and yes I would definitely recommend you extern at those programs if possible.

Can you please forward those programs to me too. Much appreciated.

 

[CMistry]

Hi CMistry, how about genetic research regarding craniofacial deformity with the NIH, will it be consider at least a bit for OMFS program? Please advise, thanks.

Sounds appropriate, but realistically, not as good as working alongside OMFS.

And which track it weight more? Thanks

No idea what you'e asking here.

Can you please forward those programs to me too. Much appreciated.

Will send in a few minutes.

 

[mrsjwdds]

Which programs are most likely to accept female students? Please inform me. Thanks in Advance.

 

[sgv]

.

 

[bacardi]

Going to have to disagree with you there. I did an externship in the summer between my D1 and D2 year, and it was super-informative and useful for me, and I ended up interviewing at the program so I have to assume they didn't think it was a waste of time either.

Is this still possible? The vast majority of the externships I have seen is for 3rd year students.

 

[arkenstone]

A lot has already been discussed on the whether an MD has any practical benefits once you leave the residency, but what about during the residency:

Observing omfs residents, I understand why an MD has value -- you see a lot of medically related issues in the clinic. But I also sense a reluctance on their part to give any treatment or advice on things outside the speciality.

So what are some examples of that sweet spot where the MD is good for the patient?

 

[CMistry]

A lot has already been discussed on the whether an MD has any practical benefits once you leave the residency, but what about during the residency:

Observing omfs residents, I understand why an MD has value -- you see a lot of medically related issues in the clinic. But I also sense a reluctance on their part to give any treatment or advice on things outside the speciality.

So what are some examples of that sweet spot where the MD is good for the patient?

I can't honestly answer that question because I'm still in residency. Here I use my medical school knowledge several times a day (we do complex procedures on complex patients). In the real world, I'm not sure how much you have to know to shuck 3rds.. but clearly you don't need a medical degree.

 

[Liz Cecilia]

I'm currently in the middle of my D1 year-- this just occurred to me as a random thought, but I got accepted to dental school without any sort of undergraduate degree. Faculty at my school have told me both ways, so I'm a little confused. Will my lack of degree affect my application to OMS residencies?

 

[CMistry]

I'm currently in the middle of my D1 year-- this just occurred to me as a random thought, but I got accepted to dental school without any sort of undergraduate degree. Faculty at my school have told me both ways, so I'm a little confused. Will my lack of degree affect my application to OMS residencies?

My (limited) understanding is that it will affect your chances at some 6yr programs due to medical school requirements. That being said, a good number of my senior residents do not have a bachelor's degree.