Anyone regret becoming a dental student/dentist?

[Miley Cyrus.]

From the pre-dent forums:
Looks like another dental school will be opening up in Ohio. Also looks like Maine, Vermont, and North Dakota have started up some dental therapist bills:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140330/SUB1/303309973
http://www.jamestownsun.com/content/groups-look-ways-expand-dental-care
http://vtdigger.org/2014/04/20/edwi...-can-help-address-dental-care-crisis-vermont/

Forget about private practice dentistry, I've got to get into the dental education business. Maybe I'll start my own school and start having these programs for 'dental therapists'. I can make most of the didactic curriculum online to attract people lol.

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[Silent Cool]

TX is getting an influx of dentists from out of state but I think the conditions will hold up for a while. You just have to use common sense--don't practice in the heart of the metro parts of big cities, look for areas that are heavily residential and with a good pop to doc ratio, etc. many people just want to march into an area with many dentists already (CA and NYC being the worst examples) and expect to do well ignoring the fundamental effects of supply and demand--that will almost certainly lead to failure (and no, being 'good' does not necessarily mean you can negate the saturation). I just bought an office about 50 min away from downtown metro that is surrounded by residential districts (mostly houses and not apts, so it's people who will be here long-term), has a doc to pop ratio of 9000:1. I live in the metro and just drive out to work. I feel that this is a favorable setup and there would be no way in hell I would have bought an office downtown and have the same confidence.

The good thing about TX is that it's economy is strong. Oil and gas creates a lot of jobs and ExxonMobil is just about to move its World HQ to about 3 mi away from my office with tens of thousands of employees and their families. There is no state income tax precisely because of this strong economy. Sales tax and cost of living is low as well.

Then again, none of this matters to 90% here of the dentists (present and future) who just want to be in NY or CA like moths to a flame. I certainly don't mind in their helping to keep this a secret.

In my view, dentaltown is full of immature whinies. Yes, dentistry is tough work both physically and mentally, but it is also the one who got them the nice houses, cars, and bank accounts. There is a plethora of jobs out there who can do worse--a lot worse. So a lot of them should grow a pair, let them drop, and be a real man about it. Firm is right about the trend--at the current rate, pretty soon the costs/benefit of being a dentist will be outweighed to the former, but for the ones who are already in it or can do so cheaply (comparatively) at state schools, enjoy the ride. Work hard, use common sense about where you will work, and you will do well. On, and don't work for bloodsucking corporations--you will be treated like **** and you will never realize more than 1/3 of your ceiling.

I've thought for awhile now that Texas is the next economic promised land. Speaking of Co.s moving themselves to Texas, Toyota will now be moving itself from CA (surprise, surprise) to Plano, TX:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-motor-torrance-idUSBREA3R1EW20140428

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

I've thought for awhile now that Texas is the next economic promised land. Speaking of Co.s moving themselves to Texas, Toyota will now be moving itself from CA (surprise, surprise) to Plano, TX:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-motor-torrance-idUSBREA3R1EW20140428

Don't forget that the Panama Canal will be done undergoing expansion in 2015. After that, California's geographic advantage will be whittled down and even more businesses will move lol.

 

[kimothy_777]

Pharmacy is only getting worse...

I second that.

 

[flurocore]

Debt doesn't have to be an issue. I did the Navy 4 yr HPSP program and got out after my 4 year commitment, debt free. Small sacrifice but I get to keep every penny I make now. Actually got to learn a lot while I was in and lots of experience doing procedures I would have otherwise been apprehensive about doing on the "outside". Its worth looking into for anyone worrying about having loads of debt out of school.

 

[budda10000]

Hello SDN.
I am not sure if there has been a post similar to this. If there was, sorry for the repost. I am an incoming dental student and I was curious if anyone has regretted going to dental school or becoming a dentist after a particular experience/s.

Yes because I ended up in medical school. One year of dental school was an 80k adventure into the wrong career for me. Go to dental school because you like dentistry, not because its faster/easier route. If you like diagnostic medicine, research, or fancy surgeries then your probably going into the wrong field IMHO.

 

[Silent Cool]

Don't forget that the Panama Canal will be done undergoing expansion in 2015. After that, California's geographic advantage will be whittled down and even more businesses will move lol.

Yup.

You know what cracks me up? The people who seem to laud California's fiscal policies: "We're roaring back! Look at all the jobs we are creating!" LOL. You have to be kidding me.

 

[Demilaax]

This thread increases my interest in suicide by couple folds. For me, I honestly don't give lots of chips about money, it never bought me happiness...nothing really did. A nice apartment and my Honda accord is all i need as far as life style.

 

[drill-and-fill]

Pretty sure you need money to have a "nice" apartment... just sayin.

 

[Daurang]

Going to expensive school school don't pay off? Going to prestigious school don't pay off? Becoming a doctor don't pay off? Interesting conclusion...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ays-off-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

 

[egartne1]

This thread is quite pessimistic. I have just recently applied to dental school, but I was raised in a family of dentists, so I would like to think I know a bit about the profession and the lifestyle. What people are saying on here isn't exactly true. Both my parents and 2 of my uncles are dentists, and my exposure to the profession may be different from the norm, but I don't think dentistry is as bad as people make it seem on here.

My one uncle, who is 41, and his partner each pull in over 500k a year. My uncle has 2 beautiful homes, exotic cars, and vacations regularly. My mother hasn't worked in 15 years, and my father makes enough money to comfortably support our family working 28 hrs a week for the past 10 years. My dad and I go on dental golf outings at least twice a month, and out of the 9 other dentists we golf with, 6 of them have ferrari's.

I'm not saying that nice cars and homes are an indication of whether or not a profession is "worth it" but there are definitely plenty of opportunities to become successful as a dentist. Work hard, develop your social skills, get to be good friends with already practicing dentists, and dentistry still has enormous potential to be a great career choice.

Like any other profession, in dentistry, the "best" can make a killing. But the good thing about dentistry, is even if your not the best, the average dentist still makes plenty more than most other people in the world.

Once again, these are just my observations. I'm just trying to provide a little reassurance for all of those who after reading the posts on this site, think that they are wasting 8 years of there life busting their ass in school for a ****ty end result.

 

[sgv]

This thread is quite pessimistic. I have just recently applied to dental school, but I was raised in a family of dentists, so I would like to think I know a bit about the profession and the lifestyle. What people are saying on here isn't exactly true. Both my parents and 2 of my uncles are dentists, and my exposure to the profession may be different from the norm, but I don't think dentistry is as bad as people make it seem on here.

My one uncle, who is 41, and his partner each pull in over 500k a year. My uncle has 2 beautiful homes, exotic cars, and vacations regularly. My mother hasn't worked in 15 years, and my father makes enough money to comfortably support our family working 28 hrs a week for the past 10 years. My dad and I go on dental golf outings at least twice a month, and out of the 9 other dentists we golf with, 6 of them have ferrari's.

I'm not saying that nice cars and homes are an indication of whether or not a profession is "worth it" but there are definitely plenty of opportunities to become successful as a dentist. Work hard, develop your social skills, get to be good friends with already practicing dentists, and dentistry still has enormous potential to be a great career choice.

Like any other profession, in dentistry, the "best" can make a killing. But the good thing about dentistry, is even if your not the best, the average dentist still makes plenty more than most other people in the world.

Once again, these are just my observations. I'm just trying to provide a little reassurance for all of those who after reading the posts on this site, think that they are wasting 8 years of there life busting their ass in school for a ****ty end result.

that's because they never borrowed $400,000 in loans at 6.8 to 7.9% interest rate

 

[DoWork91]

This thread is quite pessimistic. I have just recently applied to dental school, but I was raised in a family of dentists, so I would like to think I know a bit about the profession and the lifestyle. What people are saying on here isn't exactly true. Both my parents and 2 of my uncles are dentists, and my exposure to the profession may be different from the norm, but I don't think dentistry is as bad as people make it seem on here.

My one uncle, who is 41, and his partner each pull in over 500k a year. My uncle has 2 beautiful homes, exotic cars, and vacations regularly. My mother hasn't worked in 15 years, and my father makes enough money to comfortably support our family working 28 hrs a week for the past 10 years. My dad and I go on dental golf outings at least twice a month, and out of the 9 other dentists we golf with, 6 of them have ferrari's.

I'm not saying that nice cars and homes are an indication of whether or not a profession is "worth it" but there are definitely plenty of opportunities to become successful as a dentist. Work hard, develop your social skills, get to be good friends with already practicing dentists, and dentistry still has enormous potential to be a great career choice.

Like any other profession, in dentistry, the "best" can make a killing. But the good thing about dentistry, is even if your not the best, the average dentist still makes plenty more than most other people in the world.

Once again, these are just my observations. I'm just trying to provide a little reassurance for all of those who after reading the posts on this site, think that they are wasting 8 years of there life busting their ass in school for a ****ty end result.

Do they practice in a saturated area and are they specialists?

 

[Drwildcat15]

Would you mind me asking what state you live in? pm me if you would rather not say on here

 

[egartne1]

Sgv, my uncles partner is 35 from temple dental who bought out 50% of my uncles practice. So out of school he said he was about 330k in debt from tuition and whatever else, then took out another 400k (give or take) loan to buy-in to the practice. Not sure what his interest rates were, but all I'm saying is people do/can succeed in dentistry. Granted, he did have a good situation coming out of school. Being good friends with my uncle and being able to jump right into a lucrative practice, but he makes a ton of money right now and is opening up his second office in about a month.

My uncle, who is just a general dentist, practices in a very blue collar area. A lot of people who do manual labor all there lives and not much attention is paid to hygiene, so everyone has terrible teeth and there is a lot of work to do. But because everyone is so "poor" they must participate with insurance. For example they get about $800 per crown. The area isn't overly saturated per say, but there are 5 other practices on the same road as his (it's a long road), one of which is aspen dental. They make a lot of money being good dentists, who are friendly and easy to talk to, and who work quickly. They don't turn anybody away, ever, and make an effort to see patients asap whenever it works for the patient.

My father and his buddies are pretty much the exact opposite. We live in a very wealthy area where patients teeth aren't as bad, he doesn't participate with insurance, and is more "professional" than my uncle. Not much joking around with patients, doesn't wear scrubs, works slowly and methodically with more precision and care. He spends longer getting to know the patients and to make sure their desires are being met and what not. But that works where we live because patients expectations are much higher and we charge $2400 per crown. My dads a GP, and 5 of the guys we golf with are as well. 2 are perio, 1 ortho, and 1 endo.

And as far as saturation goes, my mom always says there are "too many" dentists where we live, but I don't really think so. There are a decent amount, but no more than other places I don't think. There are plenty of patients and my dad always says he could be as busy as he wants to be, but he doesn't want to be. Don't know how true that is or if he's just trying to get my mom to shut up.

Now obviously this isn't the norm, and I do know some GPs and specialists who aren't as wealthy, but for the most part all the dentists I know are in the upper middle to high economic class. But these people have also been practicing for a while.


I don't really know what to expect with dentistry, the only "real" information I have is what I see and hear from my family and friends. But I want to have a positive outlook on the profession because good things come to positive people, and if for no other reason, who wants to be so negative towards something youre devoting the majority of your life to. All I know is that I worked for a plumber last summer and doing manual labor for a living would be miserable, so if I have the opportunity to work and live like my dad and his buddies I'm gonna take it. And If others on here take a similar route I don't think you will be as dissapointed as the people on here make it sound.

Sorry for this being so long and I don't mean to tell my life story, just providing the little info I have on the profession and trying to give a little break from the constant bashing you read on here. So keep your head up, good things can come of dentistry

 

[Mattthias]

must be nice to have rich parents

 

[bsp1013]

"2400 per crown" nice!

 

[syap]

Ha we started school in July and had someone in my class drop out after 3 days. The only classes we were taking were ethics and anatomy (dissection).

 

[321931]

I have a mixed bag feeling about Dentistry. I went into it primarily for money+lifestyle, but after graduating/working, it isn't as nice as people picture it.

1) Debt, 300k+ is considered "normal" now-a-days. People- folks. This should NOT be the norm. I didn't have a previous job/career or have to figure out my own finances; however, when I did graduate, and took care of my own finances- I realized what a ****ton of money that is.

300k Debt with 10 year repayment plan depending on interest- you end up paying 400k+ MORE just based on interest alone.

Lets say you graduate and make 60$/hr which is about 500 a day for a new grad...- Granted you get a decent job. If you in a major metropolitan area- you will make far less, work part time, and have zero benefits. You will make probably less then 80-90 doing part time hygiene. You have to move to Podunk USA to get a decent job with benefits or if you are lucky some old mentor will take you in and help you- but that is extremely rare. People that hire associates don't do it for charity, they do it for themselves.

60-24$ tax= 36h after tax
36$/H-19$ for loans= 17$/H after just tax and school loans. Granted you will become more proficient as the years go by and make more money- you'll still be upping the -loans amount- because interest accrues and you want to get rid of it as fast as possible. 10 years is a decent end point.

Think about it, you go to school for 4 years, then 4 years post grad and make literally an equivalent to 15-20$ an hr. After all that, factor in malpractice insurance, kids, family, house, food, rent, etc etc. We do NOT make alot of money starting and til you pay off your loans- you will most likely have to live frugal.

Granted, I think probably 75% of people in my class are in this boat. The other 25% have their parent's practice which- well they don't go through such a tough time.

2) Labor + Stress,

When you are in such high debt loads, you have stress. A lot of it. You will end up taking that corporate gig or medicaid mill just because there are no other options. You will be pressured to upsell in corporate or be fired, and or see 25-35 patients a day. That is NOT easy. It will break you physically and emotionally. You also will have to know your **** like the back of your hand. It's your license. You don't want the dental board knocking at your door.

3) Once you get everything down which will be after 5-10 years, and your loans are paid off, I guess thats when the "golden" years come in. Buy into a practice with more loans, dictate your own hours, and take home that "dental" salary that everyone rages about.

Dentistry isn't easy. You won't be getting that BMW M3 anytime soon post-grad. You won't be going on 3 day vacations to Mexico or wherever. You won't be working 4 easy days and bringing in 200k. You will give your arm/leg/back before any of that happens. For those with parent's practice or those with parents with money- I think its alright. For those with none of the above... think about it. Hard. And understand that dentistry isn't what it used to be.

 

[free99]

I have a mixed bag feeling about Dentistry. I went into it primarily for money+lifestyle, but after graduating/working, it isn't as nice as people picture it.

1) Debt, 300k+ is considered "normal" now-a-days. People- folks. This should NOT be the norm. I didn't have a previous job/career or have to figure out my own finances; however, when I did graduate, and took care of my own finances- I realized what a ****ton of money that is.

300k Debt with 10 year repayment plan depending on interest- you end up paying 400k+ MORE just based on interest alone.

Lets say you graduate and make 60$/hr which is about 500 a day for a new grad...- Granted you get a decent job. If you in a major metropolitan area- you will make far less, work part time, and have zero benefits. You will make probably less then 80-90 doing part time hygiene. You have to move to Podunk USA to get a decent job with benefits or if you are lucky some old mentor will take you in and help you- but that is extremely rare. People that hire associates don't do it for charity, they do it for themselves.

60-24$ tax= 36h after tax
36$/H-19$ for loans= 17$/H after just tax and school loans. Granted you will become more proficient as the years go by and make more money- you'll still be upping the -loans amount- because interest accrues and you want to get rid of it as fast as possible. 10 years is a decent end point.

Think about it, you go to school for 4 years, then 4 years post grad and make literally an equivalent to 15-20$ an hr. After all that, factor in malpractice insurance, kids, family, house, food, rent, etc etc. We do NOT make alot of money starting and til you pay off your loans- you will most likely have to live frugal.

Granted, I think probably 75% of people in my class are in this boat. The other 25% have their parent's practice which- well they don't go through such a tough time.

2) Labor + Stress,

When you are in such high debt loads, you have stress. A lot of it. You will end up taking that corporate gig or medicaid mill just because there are no other options. You will be pressured to upsell in corporate or be fired, and or see 25-35 patients a day. That is NOT easy. It will break you physically and emotionally. You also will have to know your **** like the back of your hand. It's your license. You don't want the dental board knocking at your door.

3) Once you get everything down which will be after 5-10 years, and your loans are paid off, I guess thats when the "golden" years come in. Buy into a practice with more loans, dictate your own hours, and take home that "dental" salary that everyone rages about.

Dentistry isn't easy. You won't be getting that BMW M3 anytime soon post-grad. You won't be going on 3 day vacations to Mexico or wherever. You won't be working 4 easy days and bringing in 200k. You will give your arm/leg/back before any of that happens. For those with parent's practice or those with parents with money- I think its alright. For those with none of the above... think about it. Hard. And understand that dentistry isn't what it used to be.

Thanks for the insight. Would you mind sharing where you practice and how you chose to practice there? When you were looking for jobs how wide of a geographic range did you look at?