Apollo MD

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jafo9

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Considering a job with Apollo MD. Could anyone provide the good and the bad? Have they lost any contracts lately - I've heard rumors of lost contracts in North FL and Atlanta area? Do they provide adequate coverage for their hospitals?

I know there was a thread about this in 2009 but just wondered if anyone had any updated information. Thank you in advance for any help!

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Thanks NinerNiner999. That's great to hear that you're happy. So I guess you haven't heard the same rumors I have about lost large contracts recently ?

Anyone else have any input on Apollo MD?
 
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Contracts come and go as part of the business of what we do. Ask anyone whose been around. This has zero to do with how "good" a group is. The real question is how well run is your local shop, because that is what impacts you the most.

If you do well, you will do well regardless of who holds your contract...
 
Have worked for ApolloMD as a per diem PA-C since 2010. Small hosp ED in South Carolina. I worked far more than F/T my last year prior to starting med school but was never contracted F/T so cannot speak to benefits. They can be chintzy about paying routine practice fees, DEA etc. As I understand it our docs are well-compensated. PAs/NPs better than some practices but less good than others. Overall Apollo has been good to me and has kept me on staff even though I have loved 700 miles away the past 2 yr and only able to work occasional holiday shifts when I'm home.
Negotiate--they definitely have wiggle room in their ED contracts, especially if you're willing to work in a place that's tough to staff...for instance we are short docs in my ED--PM me for details if you like.
Good luck!
 
I've been with Apollo for 5 years and I'm still very happy with them. We lost a contract north of Atlanta 2 years ago when TeamHealth or EmCare agreed to do it without a subsidy while getting the hospitalist contract at the same time.

We recently got the contract for Atlanta Medical Center (level I trauma center) and still have a lot of hospitals in the Atlanta area. North Fulton, South Fulton, Spaulding Regional, West Georgia, WellStar Health System (Paulding, Douglas, Cobb, and Kennestone - Georgia's busiest ED).

Apollo has gained more contracts than it's lost in the last 5 years. Pay is great, and they don't tell you how to practice medicine.
 
Thanks to all. Sounds very positive.
 
When I was looking for a new gig last year, there was an Apollo recruiter with whom I was talking. It was a site in SC. The director there didn't want me, because he felt I hadn't worked in a busy enough place in a recent time. Looking at who they DID have there was one guy with whom I had worked several years ago, and he was acclaimed to be the SLOWEST guy in the whole group (over 50 docs), and consulted the most (documented). Also, they had 3 locums guys at one time, out of 10 total docs. I found that a bit quizzical.

I also asked about why there is "ApolloMD" AND "AthenaMD" (as they share the same staff and offices), and I don't recall the answer. The place is fully physician owned, so the docs are willing to work their asses off, so they get paid more. Southerndoc has been at it for years, but I don't know how sustainable is that pace, for a non-superhuman.

Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, virtually always, it is.
 
Apollyon, AthenaMD is for smaller hospitals so the ApolloMD name stays with busier, more well known hospitals.

Locums? Apollo has a STAT team that is comprised of Apollo docs that travel for urgent needs at various hospitals (mainly new startups). Basically it's our own locums team. I'm not aware of Apollo using any locums from locum companies.

You work hard at some shops -- 2.3-2.8 patients per hour. I'm averaging about 2-2.2 PPH now at a very busy Level II trauma center (130,000 patients/year). With the level of acuity, that's about all you can do.
 
Locums? Apollo has a STAT team that is comprised of Apollo docs that travel for urgent needs at various hospitals (mainly new startups). Basically it's our own locums team. I'm not aware of Apollo using any locums from locum companies.

I remember this specifically. The recruiter did NOT state there was a STAT team - he specifically told me that they were locums. I can PM you the location and the recruiter's name.
 
My thoughts: as long as I am a mere clock punching physician I insist on being paid by the hour....so I refuse to take a straight rvu gig. Make me ceo, and I will be happy to accept pay for performance. I refuse to put myself in a place where I am paid for someone else's performance, however.

Ask yourself - what does Apollo's ceo make as a base salary for seeing zero pph? Or is 100% of his.compensation based on hitting corporate performance targets?

If it is the former, why would you agree to a compensation scheme the group's ceo would find unacceptable for himself?


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Ask yourself - what does Apollo's ceo make as a base salary for seeing zero pph? Or is 100% of his.compensation based on hitting corporate performance targets?

Pure productivity is not for everyone. Those that are slow, don't like to do procedures, etc., are going to find their salaries less than what places pay hourly. Physicians who are efficient, like procedures, etc. will make more. I average 1.9-2.2 PPH now at a very high acuity place and made a ton of money (PM me if you want specifics).

For the record, Apollo's CEO's salary is tied to productivity based on the shares he owns. Yes, he gets a base salary just like every other CEO out there. His salary has no involvement with physician payment. If you want to be paid hourly, then Apollo is not for you.
 
Pure productivity is not for everyone. Those that are slow, don't like to do procedures, etc., are going to find their salaries less than what places pay hourly. Physicians who are efficient, like procedures, etc. will make more. I average 1.9-2.2 PPH now at a very high acuity place and made a ton of money (PM me if you want specifics).

For the record, Apollo's CEO's salary is tied to productivity based on the shares he owns. Yes, he gets a base salary just like every other CEO out there. His salary has no involvement with physician payment. If you want to be paid hourly, then Apollo is not for you.

I demanded an hourly rate when I worked at low volume rural EDs because I wanted guaranteed money and knew I might not see enough patients to justify it. Working in any mid to high volume ED, the patients and RVUs are there for the taking. As a relatively high producer I want to get paid for what I do, especially if I'm going to be working along side a slower physician.

As for the locums issue I think it depends on how you define locums. My SDG is currently overstaffed so I opted to pick up a few shifts/month at an in-town ED that Apollo recently got the contract on.
 
Pure productivity is not for everyone. Those that are slow, don't like to do procedures, etc., are going to find their salaries less than what places pay hourly. Physicians who are efficient, like procedures, etc. will make more. I average 1.9-2.2 PPH now at a very high acuity place and made a ton of money (PM me if you want specifics).

For the record, Apollo's CEO's salary is tied to productivity based on the shares he owns. Yes, he gets a base salary just like every other CEO out there. His salary has no involvement with physician payment. If you want to be paid hourly, then Apollo is not for you.

Is the 1.9-2.2 PPH based on just your cases or does that include extender cases? A job that I am considering has numbers of 2+PPH by the doc alone and 4+ PPH including extender cases. How much involvement do you have in the extender cases? Do they see just low acuity or all comers? 4+ PPH does not seem very sustainable over the long term.
 
Is the 1.9-2.2 PPH based on just your cases or does that include extender cases? A job that I am considering has numbers of 2+PPH by the doc alone and 4+ PPH including extender cases. How much involvement do you have in the extender cases? Do they see just low acuity or all comers? 4+ PPH does not seem very sustainable over the long term.

I would inquire persistently into what kind of acuity that shop is seeing. 2+pph solo is cake with an admit rate of 10% and horrific if your admit rate is 30%.
 
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2.9 PPH with the APP's. Those in FastTrack you don't see unless the APP requests or they're a level 3 (level 2's never make it there). APP's see mainly level 3's but occasionally level 2's in the back. Generally I see all APP patients in the back, including level 4's. APP patients must be seen by the doc if not a level 4 or 5.

Our APP's are pretty skilled. Some have credentials and are very proficient at central lines, LP's, etc.

Acuity is pretty high. 20-25% admission rate. Today alone I had a posterior STEMI; HTN emergency needing dialysis and Cardene drip; sepsis case with hyperkalemia (and a sine wave), hypotension, etc. requiring intubation, central line and pressors; heroin overdose requiring naloxone drip; ARF with UTI and rapid atrial flutter at 160 requiring diltiazem; stroke patient that received TPA. Mix that in with 2 flu cases, a few abdominal pains, chest pains (some that went to the obs unit, others I sent home), and asthmatic, lower GI bleed, and a dehydration from diarrhea. Lots of variety, and tons of acuity. The level I was in doesn't get much APP support, but the PA saw a rule out DVT, asthmatic that required admission (O2 sat 86% on RA after neb), cholelithiasis, and something else that doesn't come to mind (a flank pain maybe?). The FastTrack PA saw 7 patients assigned to me, none of which I saw personally.
 
I enjoyed Apollo with their pure RVU model when I first started working for them but now I tend to hate it. The problem with pure RVU system is that its awesome when there's plenty of patients to go around and sucks when there are few pt's and the ED is overstaffed with providers. We have undergone constant schedule tweaking over the past few months to the point that the ED is majorly overstaffed with MDs and you end up savagely poaching and sniping patients (ambulance bay, triage, etc..) in order to hit "your number" and make a paycheck. You don't have any choice and everyone feels the tension in an environment like that. After I hit my number, I've left early on many occasions just so the other guys would have enough to go around as I genuinely enjoy working with my colleagues. I hate having to think that much about my paycheck while I'm trying to treat sick patients. I hate going into a code calculating my RVUs or doing a direct laryngoscopy on an EMS tubed patient to verify correct placement knowing full well in my head that it's an extra procedure that I can "bill for"... I also don't like the lack of transparency. There are no night differentials though I'm fairly sure people have worked them out under the table. I've heard of people also negotiating "fixed rate" contracts so you never really know how everyone is getting paid. There's no algorithm that I can tell to how PA/NP's assign patients to providers. If they like you, you get to attest their chart. If they don't, you will not get charts assigned to you. They get paid with a productivity component also (not as large as yours) so you have to be careful roaming around on slow days and picking up patients because if you pick up a quick and easy level 4/5 you might be perceived as "stealing their patients" and they will retaliate by not assigning pt's to you knowing that it will impact your salary. If I'm 2.4pph (without MLP) then I have a lower than average MLP component to my overall pph. If I go slower and try not to pick up any 4's, then guess what? Voila... MLP component goes up. It just sucks when there are either 1) too many docs or 2) not enough patients on a slow night, etc.. knowing that you are making 0$/hr when you aren't seeing people.

That being said, Apollo feels less "corporate" than some of the other CMGs such as TH. They have never told me how I should practice medicine and that goes a long way. I was probably happiest with Schumacher and think the best compensation model is 2/3 base salary with 1/3 productivity component and a transparent shift differential for nights. I also received many more transparent metrics at the end of the month with Schumacher. I could see my RVU/hr, PPH, MLP assignment ratio, along with multiple other metrics not only for me but for every other provider.

I honestly don't like going to work having to think so much about getting paid, especially when I'm treating sick patients. It's very "soul sucking" for me of late.
 
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I enjoyed Apollo with their pure RVU model when I first started working for them but now I tend to hate it. The problem with pure RVU system is that its awesome when there's plenty of patients to go around and sucks when there are few pt's and the ED is overstaffed with providers. We have undergone constant schedule tweaking over the past few months to the point that the ED is majorly overstaffed with MDs and you end up savagely poaching and sniping patients (ambulance bay, triage, etc..) in order to hit "your number" and make a paycheck. You don't have any choice and everyone feels the tension in an environment like that. After I hit my number, I've left early on many occasions just so the other guys would have enough to go around as I genuinely enjoy working with my colleagues. I hate having to think that much about my paycheck while I'm trying to treat sick patients. I hate going into a code calculating my RVUs or doing a direct laryngoscopy on an EMS tubed patient to verify correct placement knowing full well in my head that it's an extra procedure that I can "bill for"... I also don't like the lack of transparency. There are no night differentials though I'm fairly sure people have worked them out under the table. I've heard of people also negotiating "fixed rate" contracts so you never really know how everyone is getting paid. There's no algorithm that I can tell to how PA/NP's assign patients to providers. If they like you, you get to attest their chart. If they don't, you will not get charts assigned to you. They get paid with a productivity component also (not as large as yours) so you have to be careful roaming around on slow days and picking up patients because if you pick up a quick and easy level 4/5 you might be perceived as "stealing their patients" and they will retaliate by not assigning pt's to you knowing that it will impact your salary. If I'm 2.4pph (without MLP) then I have a lower than average MLP component to my overall pph. If I go slower and try not to pick up any 4's, then guess what? Voila... MLP component goes up. It just sucks when there are either 1) too many docs or 2) not enough patients on a slow night, etc.. knowing that you are making 0$/hr when you aren't seeing people.

That being said, Apollo feels less "corporate" than some of the other CMGs such as TH. They have never told me how I should practice medicine and that goes a long way. I was probably happiest with Schumacher and think the best compensation model is 2/3 base salary with 1/3 productivity component and a transparent shift differential for nights. I also received many more transparent metrics at the end of the month with Schumacher. I could see my RVU/hr, PPH, MLP assignment ratio, along with multiple other metrics not only for me but for every other provider.

I honestly don't like going to work having to think so much about getting paid, especially when I'm treating sick patients. It's very "soul sucking" for me of late.

So they don't have a guaranteed hourly floor rate then? I understand that's why it's 'pure RVU', but I've seen places that call themselves pure RVU, and have a guaranteed floor, if you don't hit your hourly rate through RVU's alone..
 
So they don't have a guaranteed hourly floor rate then? I understand that's why it's 'pure RVU', but I've seen places that call themselves pure RVU, and have a guaranteed floor, if you don't hit your hourly rate through RVU's alone..

Negative. Someone might tell you that, but unless it's in your contract, it's not enforceable.
 
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