Applicants for UK Schools C/O 2015/2016

[orca2011]

I just thought of a few more questions about vet school at Glasgow. Are the lectures all recorded and do professors tend to provide power points for you at all? I learn better when I get to print out the power point before hand and take additional notes/diagrams along side of it. I'm a slow writer and don't do well taking notes on a computer because I just end up on the internet (although I am considering going the way of a tablet.) When I was studying abroad in the UK my lectures through the biomedical school were all recorded (and I think the bio department as well) and I found that helpful if I needed to go back and re-listen to something or if the lecturer was going too fast for me to keep up.

Have things gotten easier in regards to working along side the younger students? I was only older by most students by like 1-2 years when I was in the UK, so it wasn't really an issue but I did get frustrated the one time I got paired with a European student for lab instead of my friend from my US college because I already knew how to do whatever we were doing. And I'm all for people learning, but she couldn't even do stoichiometry, so I was completely baffled as to how she was even in the program. Did you find that you were encountering situations like this frequently?

And do you guys have any concerns about jobs afterwards? Not necessarily in regards to the job market (we're all kinda screwed really) but due to the later graduation date? Or do you feel like you've been able/or will be able to build up enough contacts through EMS work that you don't think it will matter much? My aunt's brother in law is actually a veterinarian and I'm kind of hoping he'd take me on later down the road and if he is financially able to have an associate at that point, so I'm hoping that maybe I'll be okay, but was just wondering if this concerned any of you.

Also, do any of you wish you had waited and tried to get in state side at all?

And I also have a bunch of financial ail/loan questions that I'm going to be asking if you guys don't mind sharing at all. I can PM you so that your information isn't all over the board. I just need to ask my mom because she has some specific concerns as well.

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[shortnsweet]

I just thought of a few more questions about vet school at Glasgow. Are the lectures all recorded and do professors tend to provide power points for you at all? I learn better when I get to print out the power point before hand and take additional notes/diagrams along side of it. I'm a slow writer and don't do well taking notes on a computer because I just end up on the internet (although I am considering going the way of a tablet.) When I was studying abroad in the UK my lectures through the biomedical school were all recorded (and I think the bio department as well) and I found that helpful if I needed to go back and re-listen to something or if the lecturer was going too fast for me to keep up.

Have things gotten easier in regards to working along side the younger students? I was only older by most students by like 1-2 years when I was in the UK, so it wasn't really an issue but I did get frustrated the one time I got paired with a European student for lab instead of my friend from my US college because I already knew how to do whatever we were doing. And I'm all for people learning, but she couldn't even do stoichiometry, so I was completely baffled as to how she was even in the program. Did you find that you were encountering situations like this frequently?

And do you guys have any concerns about jobs afterwards? Not necessarily in regards to the job market (we're all kinda screwed really) but due to the later graduation date? Or do you feel like you've been able/or will be able to build up enough contacts through EMS work that you don't think it will matter much? My aunt's brother in law is actually a veterinarian and I'm kind of hoping he'd take me on later down the road and if he is financially able to have an associate at that point, so I'm hoping that maybe I'll be okay, but was just wondering if this concerned any of you.

Also, do any of you wish you had waited and tried to get in state side at all?

And I also have a bunch of financial ail/loan questions that I'm going to be asking if you guys don't mind sharing at all. I can PM you so that your information isn't all over the board. I just need to ask my mom because she has some specific concerns as well.

Maybe one of the younger years will chime in later for another opinion, as it seems I have become the Glasgow spokeswoman (didn't mean to!). I'll give you my thoughts though

With regards to lectures, all of the powerpoints are available through moodle. Sometimes the professors can get lazy and forget to put them up (supposed to be up 48 hrs in advance), but you can always go into a previous years' class and download their lecture, as they don't change too much. They aren't really recorded, but a lot of people have ipads now which record with the lecture itself, or they get their own recorder and record the lectures they want. If you miss one, you can always seek out one of those people and bribe them with cookies! My fourth year roommates have said that half of their lectures are recorded, so perhaps the school is moving in that direction in general? I've always been a print and take notes on that kind of person myself, and haven't really had a problem.

By the end of second year/third year, I think you stop noticing the age gap. I have become quite close with many of the UKers in my class and in others by becoming involved in clubs. First year can be tough, as you are all feeling each other out, but it does get better. You'll get frustrated relearning stuff like biomolec and PCRs, but they are good refresher courses, and sometimes the professors rely on our knowledge to help out the younger students and get everyone on the same page. It really all evens out in the end.

As for jobs...not in the slightest. In some ways, I feel we have a distinct advantage. We have the ability to work anywhere in the world, learn clinical skills and are hands on from day one, and networking with vets all over the world all five years because of EMS. EMS builds in time for you to do far more externships over breaks than any US school. With the new curriculum, you've got 16 weeks built into your 5th year just for EMS. Your graduation date really holds no bearing on your getting a job. It's all about planning, and really going after awesome placements where you can build your skills, confidence, and relationships.

Not for a second do I wish I had not taken my place. I absolutely love Glasgow, and it was the best choice for my learning style, my desire to travel, and simply the vet school experience. I hate sounding like a freaking admissions officer trying to feed you every positive thing about the school, but I am being honest. Yes, some days we all go "Gah I hate Scotland" or " The Teaching Unit is being slow and stupid", but the pros really do outweigh the cons, and you get over any quibbles pretty quickly.

 

[devyn]

Sounds like a plan, I'll PM you about a week before. Yeah I know it's a super short visit but I'm not making a vacation out of it and I would like to save as much as possible before that first tuition payment sucks all my funds away. I definitely want to scope out as much of the vet med facilities and potential housing options as I can while I'm there.

Speaking of tuition, do you know if the rates have been increasing dramatically as of late? or if they are going to? Do you have any suggestions for loans with low interest rates?

I realize it's going to cost an arm and a leg to attend vet school no matter which school I attend, but it would be nice if I could find some ways to offset the costs of additional living and travel expenses I would incur while attending UCD. Is it reasonable to receive payment for your EMS hours during summers and semester breaks? If I don't wind up helping Grace with her vaccine research, I would like to find a way to get involved in a work study project for a specific interest within vet med (most likely parasitology or GI diseases). Can a student devote say 10-15 hours per week during semester to something like that and still maintain a social life along with coursework, or is that just way too much to juggle?

One last question, can UCD students use the shuttles and buses to get around Dublin and neighboring cities just by showing their campus ID's or do they still pay a fee? See you in a few weeks and thanks for all your help!

Great!

I have not heard anything about tuition increases as of yet, so I assume there will not be any - I think it has to stay within a certain range. As far as loans, I am using all government loans for my vet degree and I am not sure personal loans would be the way to go. Gov loans cover the full cost of attendance, so you really should not need any other loans.

I would not expect to get paid for EMS. Most farmers are not going to pay students for the EMS that they do as they know how it works through the school and know they can get the free labor for the lambing, calving, etc. You might get lucky with one or two farmers willing to pay a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I would not be able to hold a 10-15 hr/wk job with the vet coursework as there is just a lot of studying that needs to get done and the semesters tend to fly by. With midterms happening on various weeks and then finals - it would probably effect my grades. Some weeks there is so much studying that has to get done that you cannot even have a social life.

As far as the buses and public transport around Dublin, you would still have to pay the bus fare. If you bought a monthly pass, then you could get a student discount. But otherwise it is the normal fare. With the amount of students in Dublin there is no way it could be free.

 

[mas185]

I've been told the tuition at UCD will be fixed - but I'm not 100% on the details of it (see this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=891368 - mas185's post.)

The problem is that tuition is in euros, but your savings/US student loans are probably in dollars....so you won't really know until the funds get converted what the actual cost will be.

Tuition goes up every year but whatever you are charged your first year is what you pay for all for years. So I believe the 4th years pay 32,000, we (the 3rd years) pay 32,500 each year, and I think the new grads pay a bit more than that. But I will pay that 32,500 every year so whatever you are quoted for tuition will be the same amount each year.

Robdude is right though it doesn't really mean much that tuition stays the same because the exchange rate varies so much ... even between each semester's payments.

M.A.

 

[thalamus52]

And do you guys have any concerns about jobs afterwards? Not necessarily in regards to the job market (we're all kinda screwed really) but due to the later graduation date? Or do you feel like you've been able/or will be able to build up enough contacts through EMS work that you don't think it will matter much? My aunt's brother in law is actually a veterinarian and I'm kind of hoping he'd take me on later down the road and if he is financially able to have an associate at that point, so I'm hoping that maybe I'll be okay, but was just wondering if this concerned any of you.

Also, do any of you wish you had waited and tried to get in state side at all?

Personally, I do have a few more concerns about my job prospects. It can be hard to get recommendation letters from 'well-known' people (i.e. well-known state-side) when all your lecturers are from Europe. This wouldn't have any bearing on getting a GP job really, but it does matter for some internships. The late graduation date also has a bearing on this- I know a few of last year's graduates are in internships now, so there are some exceptions, but I also know some internships would not consider you for this reason alone (it's important to overlap with the previous years interns for orientation, which you can't do if you're taking finals in June).

Also, some of us DID get in state-side, but it was cheaper to come here or we wanted a life experience 'outside the box.' Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder, but I do get offended when people just assume all the North Americans in programs in the UK are second rate students that didn't get accepted in the states.

Anyway, it depends a lot on what you get out of your EMS I guess. I've been lots of different places and some were useless, while others I got a lot out of. However, in my opinion, EMS is there to teach you things the school doesn't have the resources to do. Meanwhile, when you go to your EMS placements, the vets in practice expect the school to be teaching you these things- the end result is often you don't formally learn it and go teach it to yourself.

Something else to consider is the concept of AVMA accreditation. It seems like the AVMA is this great, reputable organization that knows what they're doing and their word is the end-all, be-all. However, I read the actual COE report from the site visit at Edinburgh in 2008 and it doesn't seem that thorough. I do think the UK schools have great facilities and offer a great education, comparable to many state schools, and so deserve accreditation, but I don't think the COE really scrutinizes the curriculum so well as they should. For example, our anatomy course was abysmal. There was almost no dissection and it was really disorganized (e.g. labels on specimens were always mixed up and confusing people). As another example, the curriculum is very lacking in clinical pathology. It's my understanding most US schools have a whole semester on clin path, whereas we have only a few practicals (one examining urine, one blood smears, and another FNAs) with almost no formal teaching in it. I guess my point is, don't be fooled into thinking that because it's AVMA accredited it is equivalent to ANY state school, because I just don't think you get the same educational quality in certain subjects.

That being said, I think all schools have their strengths and weaknesses. They do a fantastic job teaching us exotics here and the course is very thorough and the exotics unit and rotation in final year both have very positive feedback. We recently had a practical removing teeth from rabbits and practiced putting in IO catheters in cadavers.

I am not trying to disparage my school or other UK schools in any way- I am a firm believer that your education depends completely on you and how hard you work. But in some cases, you can't learn everything on your own, and the schools should recognize that. I am not one disgruntled individual either- I generally like it here and have had an amazing experience living in another country, especially in a city as beautiful as Edinburgh. I just wish I had known some things I know now when I was making my decision and so want to give more prospective students all the info I can offer.

 

[orca2011]

Also, some of us DID get in state-side, but it was cheaper to come here or we wanted a life experience 'outside the box.' Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder, but I do get offended when people just assume all the North Americans in programs in the UK are second rate students that didn't get accepted in the states.

Didn't mean to offend you because I know students get in state side but choose to go to the UK and I don't believe it means you're a second rate student or anything like that. Poor word choice on my part.

 

[thaowey]

omg omg omg just when i thought all hope was lost...it comes back!

just received an email from UCDublin notifying me that i'm waitlisted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

so for those UCD-acceptees...make yo decision! lol.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

ps. anyone else waitlisted too??

 

[mas185]

omg omg omg just when i thought all hope was lost...it comes back!

just received an email from UCDublin notifying me that i'm waitlisted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

so for those UCD-acceptees...make yo decision! lol.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

ps. anyone else waitlisted too??

wow didn't even know they had a waitlist!! Congrats!! Hopefully you'll get in soon!!! They have an April 15th deadline as well ...

 

[shortnsweet]

Personally, I do have a few more concerns about my job prospects. It can be hard to get recommendation letters from 'well-known' people (i.e. well-known state-side) when all your lecturers are from Europe. This wouldn't have any bearing on getting a GP job really, but it does matter for some internships. The late graduation date also has a bearing on this- I know a few of last year's graduates are in internships now, so there are some exceptions, but I also know some internships would not consider you for this reason alone (it's important to overlap with the previous years interns for orientation, which you can't do if you're taking finals in June).

Thalamus...i'm curious, what track are you doing? At least for me and equine, I know AAEP and BEVA work so closely together, that pretty much all the vets know each other/their names. They do combined projects, co-author papers, etc etc., so I never really thought getting good recommendation letters would be a problem. Also, if they want you as an intern, they will make your start date later, and just shift the timing. I was on placement just last week and asked about that. They said even the US schools sometimes have a later end date, they just shimmy the dates around.

And congrats thaowey! That is great news!!!

 

[bigkittinteef]

Yay Thaowey! I'm so happy for you!

I agree with Shortnsweet about placements. I really don't see it being a problem for someone that has worked hard throughout school and is confident enough to pursue an internship they want. The veterinary community is tight-knit; teachers/researchers at the UK schools seem to know many faculty at US schools. They are certainly respected by the teachers I have now at my undergrad (some are vets and some are researchers). If you make yourself stand out as an applicant, a teacher's LOR should be more than enough to secure a placement. Internship dates can then be made more flexible to accommodate the later grad dates.

 

[thalamus52]

We don't track at Edinburgh, but I'm more of a small animal person. I think the equine 'world' is a lot smaller than it is for SA, and most of the intern directors I've spoken to at the best known internship programs (e.g. AMC, Angell, and a few others I was interested in) have said they do not allow a later start date. They get about 2-300 applicants for 14 or so spots, most of them very strong applicants, so I don't see why they would. You certainly can at some internship programs, they all vary individually, but it does certainly hurt your chances for others- which is enough to disappoint me. Right now I think Edinburgh is great, although I do have my complaints (as I'm sure I would at any school). However, I also think it's hard for people to admit or accept they may have made the wrong decision when they dedicate so much time, money, and energy to vet school. Most people aren't going to say they regret something which they've spent a good portion of their life on. YMMV, just MHO.

 

[shortnsweet]

We don't track at Edinburgh, but I'm more of a small animal person. I think the equine 'world' is a lot smaller than it is for SA, and most of the intern directors I've spoken to at the best known internship programs (e.g. AMC, Angell, and a few others I was interested in) have said they do not allow a later start date. They get about 2-300 applicants for 14 or so spots, most of them very strong applicants, so I don't see why they would. You certainly can at some internship programs, they all vary individually, but it does certainly hurt your chances for others- which is enough to disappoint me. Right now I think Edinburgh is great, although I do have my complaints (as I'm sure I would at any school). However, I also think it's hard for people to admit or accept they may have made the wrong decision when they dedicate so much time, money, and energy to vet school. Most people aren't going to say they regret something which they've spent a good portion of their life on. YMMV, just MHO.

Totally fair. I was really just curious. You make valid points and offer a rounded opinion, I was merely drawing from my experiences, which are mainly all equine.

 

[thaowey]

thanks y'all! will keep you updated! :]

 

[vetrunnerkid13]

Any Dubliners looking for flatmates for the fall? I'll be visiting this Sunday through Wednesday and would love to get started on looking at some places.

 

[bigkittinteef]

I had a wonderful trip and have officially decided that I am going to Edinburgh! I'm sorry that I won't be classmates with you shortnsweet! Thank you for all of your help and advice. I'm with family today (Happy Easter btw!) but as soon as I can, I will post all of my pictures for those that are curious to see the schools! Orca2011, pm me if you have any specific questions about Glasgow. I'd be happy to give you my phone number if you'd like to talk about the school over the phone. It looks like a great school!

 

[shortnsweet]

I had a wonderful trip and have officially decided that I am going to Edinburgh! I'm sorry that I won't be classmates with you shortnsweet! Thank you for all of your help and advice. I'm with family today (Happy Easter btw!) but as soon as I can, I will post all of my pictures for those that are curious to see the schools! Orca2011, pm me if you have any specific questions about Glasgow. I'd be happy to give you my phone number if you'd like to talk about the school over the phone. It looks like a great school!

No problem...I am so glad you found your perfect school!! I shall see you at Dick Day

 

[bigkittinteef]

I would love to meet you at Dick Day (whatever that is...?). I'll let you know if I visit Glasgow! Maybe we can grab lunch or something, my treat as a thank you for all of your help.

 

[shortnsweet]

I would love to meet you at Dick Day (whatever that is...?). I'll let you know if I visit Glasgow! Maybe we can grab lunch or something, my treat as a thank you for all of your help.

Each year, Glasgow and Edinburgh have an entire day full of sports against each other, which then leads to a night full of drinking on a pub crawl. We flip flop back and forth who hosts each year. I think it is Glasgow this year. Very fun and usually classes are cancelled!!

Glasgow is also hosting AVS sports weekend, which is ALL the UK vets schools getting together in a giant weekend of debauchery. I will be surprised if our fair city lets vets come near any venues for a while after next fall...

 

[bigkittinteef]

That sounds AWESOME! I can't wait! Let the debauchery begin.

 

[Packen]

AVS = vet student $hit Show (wonder if it will let that go through...), but apparently it's a blast. Missed out last year, too far, but hoping to make it to Glasgow this year.

 

[shortnsweet]

AVS = vet student $hit Show (wonder if it will let that go through...), but apparently it's a blast. Missed out last year, too far, but hoping to make it to Glasgow this year.

Do itttt. I'm trying to convince Devyn to come too.

And you have to admit...Glasgow can throw a pretty excellent party!

 

[mas185]

Do itttt. I'm trying to convince Devyn to come too.

And you have to admit...Glasgow can throw a pretty excellent party!

Oh Devyn has no choice!! I'm dragging her out of her apartment next door by her hair!!!! I can't wait for Glasgow it's going to be AMAZING! I am still devastated that Dublin is not hosting AVS til the year after I graduate ... I may have to fly back just for the weekend!!!

M.A.

 

[devyn]

Oh Devyn has no choice!! I'm dragging her out of her apartment next door by her hair!!!! I can't wait for Glasgow it's going to be AMAZING! I am still devastated that Dublin is not hosting AVS til the year after I graduate ... I may have to fly back just for the weekend!!!

M.A.

I thought you were moving???!!! You will have to go a bit farther to drag me to AVS next Fall then just next door.

 

[orca2011]

Just thought I'd let everyone here know since you've all been so helpful, but I've officially decided to defer my offer from Glasgow until 2013. I didn't feel comfortable declining because I honestly feel I would love Glasgow, but this at least allows me to plan more and figure things out better from a financial standpoint.

Not sure if we have any Glasgow wait listers on here yet, but hope one of you get my spot!

 

[Catdreamer]

Just thought I'd let everyone here know since you've all been so helpful, but I've officially decided to defer my offer from Glasgow until 2013. I didn't feel comfortable declining because I honestly feel I would love Glasgow, but this at least allows me to plan more and figure things out better from a financial standpoint.

Not sure if we have any Glasgow wait listers on here yet, but hope one of you get my spot!

If you don't mind me asking did you just ask them you wanted to defer for financial reasons? I am just curious because I thought it was really hard to get deferments unless one was doing research or had family/personal issues.

 

[mas185]

Do itttt. I'm trying to convince Devyn to come too.

And you have to admit...Glasgow can throw a pretty excellent party!

I thought you were moving???!!! You will have to go a bit farther to drag me to AVS next Fall then just next door.

I'm not going that far!! (and you still have no choice you're coming on AVS with us

 

[shortnsweet]

I'm not going that far!! (and you still have no choice you're coming on AVS with us

And you have a couch for sleeping and shower promise....so really, where is the issue?

 

[devyn]

And you have a couch for sleeping and shower promise....so really, where is the issue?

If someone is available that I trust to dogsit, then I will definitely consider it!

 

[orca2011]

If you don't mind me asking did you just ask them you wanted to defer for financial reasons? I am just curious because I thought it was really hard to get deferments unless one was doing research or had family/personal issues.

I think it varies by school really. Certain schools apparently grant deferments more easily than others. I'm not sure which UK school you've applied to or anything like that, so you'd have to ask. And honesty, I was a little surprised that they were so willing to do it without asking me more questions since my reasoning wasn't for research or family/personal issues. Although, I kind of consider financial issues to be personal since a million personal things can play into it. But yes, I pretty much just claimed financial concerns but I think it was my reasoning/explanation of what I was asking that worked.

 

[shortnsweet]

If someone is available that I trust to dogsit, then I will definitely consider it!

Luckily you go to vet school. Built in puppy sitters!