Application question

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msmith83

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So I am planning on applying to Anesthesiology programs in September and just had a quick question. My step 1 score is wildly mediocre (204) and I am HOPING that I did much better on my Step II score. Only problem is my score will not be released until Sept 29th, which is a couple weeks after applications can be sent out.

So my question is, is it better to go ahead and send out my app ASAP even without Step II.... or wait a couple weeks in hoping that my Step II score is better and THEN release my application. Of course I would have everything else ready to go so that as soon as my score was released I could send it.

I took Step 2 in late July thinking that would give me plenty of time, little did I know that they would decide to take 2 months to get scores back rather than the normal 3-4 weeks.

Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I looked all over for an answer and have tried talking to a couple of contacts at my school but I have yet to receive a clear answer.

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IMHO, it's better to apply as early as possible. The application/interview process extends into January. I doubt they would reject you this early based on a low Step I score alone (except for possibly the top tier programs). Send it out, and your score will automatically be uploaded.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm just worried that I won't get an interview anywhere with that score. My grades are ok, just average but I also don't really have much that stands out in my application all that much.


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Worst case scenario, you wait another couple of years doing something else, and by that time you will get anesthesia even with a 204.
 
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Thanks for the advice. I'm just worried that I won't get an interview anywhere with that score. My grades are ok, just average but I also don't really have much that stands out in my application all that much.


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The way I see it, you're not gaining any interviews by not sending your applications out either. The way you have to look at it, what is the chance that you will actually be rejected for a step 1 of 204, between Sept 1 and Sept 23? If anything, the programs are more likely to just put your application in a pile and not make a decision for a while.

Anyway, regardless of what direction you choose, best of luck to you. Hopefully you have a few good references and impress the hell out of people on your away rotations. A good impression to higher ups on the inside will help you way more than good board scores.
 
Worst case scenario, you wait another couple of years doing something else, and by that time you will get anesthesia even with a 204.


Well that would not be ideal, haha. My wife might leave me if I don't get done with this perma-student thing
 
The way I see it, you're not gaining any interviews by not sending your applications out either. The way you have to look at it, what is the chance that you will actually be rejected for a step 1 of 204, between Sept 1 and Sept 23? If anything, the programs are more likely to just put your application in a pile and not make a decision for a while.

Anyway, regardless of what direction you choose, best of luck to you. Hopefully you have a few good references and impress the hell out of people on your away rotations. A good impression to higher ups on the inside will help you way more than good board scores.

Thanks again, good point
 
One more question for those of you know can shed some light on the matter. What would be my chances with just that Step 1 going in? Also, how many programs should I apply to? Obviously broadly... would that be like 30-40 programs? ( I know more than 1 question but I'm desperate here)
 
Double that amount
 
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I am in the exact same boat as OP with step 1 score and step 2 score delay....hopefully they don't delay it too long....quick question for others...even though they say that about the delay...do they actually delay it or still release in the 3/4 week time period?
 
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Dude you are greater than 1 st dev below national avg for step 1 and anes avg step 1. You should be applying broadly
 
Dude you are greater than 1 st dev below national avg for step 1 and anes avg step 1. You should be applying broadly


Yeah I get that and I know I should apply broadly. Its just such a general term and I was curious as to what "broadly" exactly constituted. I had assume applying to 30-40 programs was somewhat broad
 
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30-40 is probably slightly higher than avg
 
Agree with 60+ programs. The last thing you want to do is commit to the application process half-heartedly. If you're going to apply, go all the way (and then you can cherry pick where you interview). :)
 
I really appreciate the input from everyone, its helped a lot. Obviously since I thought 40 programs would be enough haha. Does anyone think I may be over reaching with applying to anesthesia (even with 60+ programs)? The last thing I want to do is go unmatched. Sorry for all of the questions, but my school is kind of anti-specializing and I literally have nobody at my school who knows about applying to anesthesiology.
 
All I can do to answer that question is point you towards charting outcomes. Latest was 2011 I think. And make up your own mind about how comfortable you feel with your stats. I think things are a few more points competitive now, though I have no objective data.
 
All I can do to answer that question is point you towards charting outcomes. Latest was 2011 I think. And make up your own mind about how comfortable you feel with your stats. I think things are a few more points competitive now, though I have no objective data.


Yeah I've taken a look at that, according to the stats 95% of those with my score matched. The problem with that is... that doesn't tell you how many of those may have other aspects of their application that really stood out.... PHDs, publications in anesthesia, etc. So I have a hard time knowing how to interpret those stats. Thanks again for the input
 
So now I have another issue that I've been thinking about. I was planning on using IM as my back up in case I didn't match into Anesthesia, but I will also be applying for prelim at many of the same programs. Is that a risky thing to do? Would it be better to just apply prelim and if I didn't get into anesthesia just reapply for the next year?

Or what it just be better to scatter where I apply prelim and IM categorical?
 
Anyone have any thoughts as to program's minimum Step 1 scores that I should just not even bother applying to? Like for example if they have a minimum Step 1 of 220-230 and mine is in the 200s then maybe I shouldn't even bother with those? Or is it best to just go ahead and apply anyway.
 
Just apply, sometimes you can sway them with a phone call or something.
 
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I am in the exact same boat as OP with step 1 score and step 2 score delay....hopefully they don't delay it too long....quick question for others...even though they say that about the delay...do they actually delay it or still release in the 3/4 week time period?

Any scores that come back after your application is sent will not get released automatically. You will have to call the NBME to release it, and thus have the option to hide it until after interviews if you do poorly. That's why people who rock their Step 1 wait until they've sent out their applications before taking step 2.
 
Any scores that come back after your application is sent will not get released automatically. You will have to call the NBME to release it, and thus have the option to hide it until after interviews if you do poorly. That's why people who rock their Step 1 wait until they've sent out their applications before taking step 2.

Ok so this makes me think it may be best to wait another 10 days after Sept 15th to just get my score back first before releasing my application. Rather than calling up the 80 or so programs I am planning on applying to once my score gets in.
 
Ok so this makes me think it may be best to wait another 10 days after Sept 15th to just get my score back first before releasing my application. Rather than calling up the 80 or so programs I am planning on applying to once my score gets in.
It's not 80 phone calls. From what I remember, you make one phone call/email to the NBME, who sends your score report to ERAS. Then ERAS automatically forwards the scores to all 80 programs.
 
It's not 80 phone calls. From what I remember, you make one phone call/email to the NBME, who sends your score report to ERAS. Then ERAS automatically forwards the scores to all 80 programs.


Will programs always go back over an application though? That's what concerns me
 
Not to hijack, but on the subject of step 1 cutoffs...are they an absolute thing or more of a guideline? For instance, my step 1 is 213...yet my step 2 is 250.

I know they'll take that into consideration later on in the process, but will most programs not even be aware of my step 2 due to intially being screened out? I appologize as I know this is really an unanswerable question haha....just needed to get it off my chest.
 
Yeah I've taken a look at that, according to the stats 95% of those with my score matched. The problem with that is... that doesn't tell you how many of those may have other aspects of their application that really stood out.... PHDs, publications in anesthesia, etc. So I have a hard time knowing how to interpret those stats. Thanks again for the input


Think of it this way: The average matching score would get you accepted to many/most of the middle tier programs. A few of the upper 1/3 may even accept you. But, the bottom 1/3 of programs are more likely to "overlook" your poor Step 1 score (and likely mediocre Step 2 as well). Thus, the most logical course is for you to apply to all the bottom 1/3 programs and maybe a few in the middle tier. Since you don't have anything else in your application (mediocre grades, low board scores, etc) your chances of being accepted to an upper 1/3 program is slim. Hence, focus your energy on a decent bottom 1/3 program (University and well know community programs) so you can actually get an interview and match there.

Of course, if you have the time and money to actually apply to 80 programs (most won't grant you an interview unless you get above average step 2 scores) then feel free to do so.

Perhaps a recent person who matched into one of these programs with a low Step 1 and mediocre Step 2 can give more specific advice on which Residency programs are bottom 1/3.
 
Recent Post from a Med Student:

The number 1 reason why a US grad doesn't match is because they applied outside of their means. I have a friend who didn't match in ENT but he had poor clinical grades and only got 4 interviews, he probably should have duel applied to be safe because ENT as a specialty was just too much of a reach for him. I wasn't fooling myself, I didn't apply to a single Ivy league school. Some people say you should still apply anyway because 'you never know' but I just saw it as a waste of money. These schools rely heavily on scores and I knew I just didn't have the clout. Additionally, with the abundance of applications programs receive, it's really easy to just cut that number down based on scores. So I wasn't kidding myself by thinking people would give my application a read with my pathetic score when they have so many others to look at. I also applied to about 65 programs. Other applicants who are stronger or applying to easier specialties have the luxury of applying to only 20 or 30 programs buy my philosophy was, "If I don't match, it's not going to be because I didn't apply to enough programs." Despite that large number I was only offered 10 interviews. This is a target number though, many sources say that if you do 10-15 interviews you're almost guaranteed to match (only almost, there are no guarantees in the match). So I got my target number but it was still a low amount compared to the number of applications I put out. Still, not complaining, the cost and effort of applying so widely is all worth it now that I've matched.
 
I think a Step 2 score over 220 for a U.S. Allopathic Med Student increases the chance of matching to over 95%. The key is to apply broady to those programs willing to overlook the poor Step 1 score. IMHO, skip the Stanfords, Mass General, Duke, Vandy, Hopkins, etc and stick with the programs you have a shot at matching. There is nothing wrong with REACHING into the middle tier so you know that you gave it your all; but, the odds favor a match into the bottom 1/3 of programs.
 
http://anesthesiology.matchapplicants.com/select.php

University of Florida Shands/Jacksonville just started a new Anesthesiology residency program. Mayo clinic Jax has one as well. Both programs have accepted Med Students with low Step 1 and average Step 2 scores in the past.

My bet is that a program like UF Shands Jax is new and thus bottom 1/3. The type of program where a 220 Step 2 gets you an interview.
 
Thanks Blade! Those are some great resources. That's exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for, extremely helpful.

Hopefully I can network well with the anesthesiologists I know and can maybe increase my chances further.

I will cut the top tier programs out completely and still apply to most middle tier programs just so I will never regret not having applied to more
 
stay away from the big names...that will save you a few hundred dollars right there.

You can easily end up with 15-20+ interviews at various programs if you apply wisely. I know multiple ppl in that range that ended up having that issue. Your real issue will become advanced vs. categorical. It will be TOUGH to line up enough medicine prelims or transitional years. Unless you're cool with doing a year of prelim surgery, try and focus on categorical programs.
 
That was some of the most helpful responses I've seen on this site. Thanks Blade!
 
stay away from the big names...that will save you a few hundred dollars right there.

You can easily end up with 15-20+ interviews at various programs if you apply wisely. I know multiple ppl in that range that ended up having that issue. Your real issue will become advanced vs. categorical. It will be TOUGH to line up enough medicine prelims or transitional years. Unless you're cool with doing a year of prelim surgery, try and focus on categorical programs.

Unfortunately those are also the most competitive ones as well

Right now I am wondering how many prelim programs I should apply to and having a really tough time with that, any opinions? Of the 70-80 programs right now I have that I may apply to, only 13 I believe are only 3 year programs
 
Unfortunately those are also the most competitive ones as well

Right now I am wondering how many prelim programs I should apply to and having a really tough time with that, any opinions? Of the 70-80 programs right now I have that I may apply to, only 13 I believe are only 3 year programs


Relax. If you really want to match into Anesthesiology be prepared to do a year of internal Medicine or Surgery (Prelim) in Detroit or some other arm pit.
There are MANY More Prelim spots for Surgery and Medicine. Relax.

Find 20 Prelim spots to apply to and make sure they are NOT top 1/2 programs. Again, Bottom 1/3 Prelim spots and you will match. In fact, your back up will be Internal Medicine so better off matching into a Prelim PGY-1 spot in that field if you don't get a Categorical.
 
Relax. If you really want to match into Anesthesiology be prepared to do a year of internal Medicine or Surgery (Prelim) in Detroit or some other arm pit.
There are MANY More Prelim spots for Surgery and Medicine. Relax.

Find 20 Prelim spots to apply to and make sure they are NOT top 1/2 programs. Again, Bottom 1/3 Prelim spots and you will match. In fact, your back up will be Internal Medicine so better off matching into a Prelim PGY-1 spot in that field if you don't get a Categorical.


Thanks Blade, much appreciated

So you'd go with 20 prelim and 20 or so categorical?
 
Thanks Blade, much appreciated

So you'd go with 20 prelim and 20 or so categorical?


30 Categorical Anesthesia
12 Anesthesia requiring PGY-1 elsewhere
20 Prelim spots (choose wisely here as you don't have time for more than 5 interviews)

That is 42 Anesthesia programs!
 
30 Categorical Anesthesia
12 Anesthesia requiring PGY-1 elsewhere
20 Prelim spots (choose wisely here as you don't have time for more than 5 interviews)

That is 42 Anesthesia programs!

Sorry, I meant how many categorical IM spots as backup, my bad
 
Sorry, I meant how many categorical IM spots as backup, my bad


Honestly, if your Step 2 is over 220 you shouldn't need any IM backups. But, you must be prepared to match at some of the weakest anesthesia programs.

Your time and effort is best spend finding those programs. I already found one for you.
If your step 2 is below 220 then I'm afraid you will need IM as backup and quite a few I might add.
 
Honestly, if your Step 2 is over 220 you shouldn't need any IM backups. But, you must be prepared to match at some of the weakest anesthesia programs.

Your time and effort is best spend finding those programs. I already found one for you.
If your step 2 is below 220 then I'm afraid you will need IM as backup and quite a few I might add.


Yeah I've just spent the last few hours on the website weeding out the programs that are out of reach. I've kept a few that may still be just because they are in the Southeast and I don't mind paying the extra money for the long shot if it means I stay in this region.

Unfortunately I'll have to wait until Sept 25th to know what my chances are but I will be prepared either way.

Thanks again for the advice. You've been extremely helpful.
 
Thanks!

Any scores that come back after your application is sent will not get released automatically. You will have to call the NBME to release it, and thus have the option to hide it until after interviews if you do poorly. That's why people who rock their Step 1 wait until they've sent out their applications before taking step 2.
 
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