Applied Clinical Psychology vs. Clinical Psychology

[CCP89]

Can anyone help give me a better understanding of the difference between the two? I've recently come across this program:

http://www.thechicagoschool.edu/Los...py_and_Adolescent_Psychotherapy_Concentration

It's a three year Psyd in Applied Clinical Psychology- specifically focused on child play therapy and adolescent psychotherapy. It's meant to be completed after an MA program, and I had this one in mind:

http://www.thechicagoschool.edu/Onl...Psychology_Child_and_Adolescent_Concentration

An MA in Child and Adolescent psychology.

My question is, would this route be disadvantageous compared to a five year doctoral program in clinical psychology? I had my heart set on doing a Psyd at Adler or the Chicago School in clinical psych, the child track. However due to distance and financial constraints, I feel like the online MA plus the three years in LA (I'm from Toronto) make more sense, in addition to being genuinely interesting. However I want to become a licensed clinical psychologist, and I don't know anyone who has ever been in these programs. I've got an appointment to speak with admissions Monday and ask these questions, but if anyone has any insight sooner I'd really appreciate hearing it. Thanks!

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[AcronymAllergy]

I've never heard of a degree in applied clinical psychology, but I think you're right to be wary (particularly given the fact that it's billed as 3 years and being offered by a professional school) and should certainly have the program clarify that you'd be licensable as a psychologist upon completion.

The program looks to only be 66 credit hours, so I'm not sure if it's even APA accredited, which would be a HUGE hurdle to overcome. Also, it's very difficult in the current training climate to become competitive for internship in only 3 years. Thus, you're either going to have a very, very hard time finishing in the proposed timeline (and may need to stay later, paying tuition each year), or they have a captive (likely unaccredited) internship which is going to be an additional hurdle to overcome.

The fact that the applied psych program is listed in a completely separate portion of the website from the PsyD in clinical psych leads me to believe that it's not APA accredited. If that's the case, I'd strongly recommend against it.

Edit: They also don't look to require GRE scores, which (in this context) would be another red flag for me.

So to answer your question--yes, this route seems as though it'd be significantly disadvantageous compared to obtaining a PhD or PsyD in clinical psychology. There really aren't any shortcuts or ways to overcome some of the geographical flexibility that's often required to successfully and adequately train in this field.

 

[erg923]

Can anyone help give me a better understanding of the difference between the two? I've recently come across this program:

http://www.thechicagoschool.edu/Los...py_and_Adolescent_Psychotherapy_Concentration

It's a three year Psyd in Applied Clinical Psychology- specifically focused on child play therapy and adolescent psychotherapy. It's meant to be completed after an MA program, and I had this one in mind:

http://www.thechicagoschool.edu/Onl...Psychology_Child_and_Adolescent_Concentration

An MA in Child and Adolescent psychology.

My question is, would this route be disadvantageous compared to a five year doctoral program in clinical psychology? I had my heart set on doing a Psyd at Adler or the Chicago School in clinical psych, the child track. However due to distance and financial constraints, I feel like the online MA plus the three years in LA (I'm from Toronto) make more sense, in addition to being genuinely interesting. However I want to become a licensed clinical psychologist, and I don't know anyone who has ever been in these programs. I've got an appointment to speak with admissions Monday and ask these questions, but if anyone has any insight sooner I'd really appreciate hearing it. Thanks!

Clinical psychology, by it very definition, is "applied." The term is redundant and was invented by marketers, not anyone familiar with the field..

 

[PHD12]

CCP89,

The chicago school of professional psychology has been sued for millions by it's students for being a diploma mill and providing them with a worthless degree. The students are the ones who used this language.

read these reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/chicago-school-of-professional-psychology-los-angeles

When you do a google search for the school, websites about fraud come up---not a good sign at all.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

CCP89,

The chicago school of professional psychology has been sued for millions by it's students for being a diploma mill and providing them with a worthless degree. The students are the ones who used this language.

read these reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/chicago-school-of-professional-psychology-los-angeles

When you do a google search for the school websites about fraud come up---not a good sign at all.

Yeah, it was actually the LA campus specifically that was sued, correct? I believe one of the other arguments made was that the program misrepresented itself and its accreditation status to prospective students during interviews, or something like that.

 

[PHD12]

Yeah, it was actually the LA campus specifically that was sued, correct? I believe one of the other arguments made was that the program misrepresented itself and its accreditation status to prospective students during interviews, or something like that.

Exactly. One in los angeles, but the reviews are universally pretty bad online.

I would also be wary about giving your contact information to the admissions reps. They have been known to use deceptive and manipulative marketing strategies as well as harassing phone calls to get people to enroll. Federal government actually sued a bunch of these schools for illegal and aggressive marketing.

 

[CCP89]

Well from what it says in the Psyd description, graduates qualify to write the national licensing exam. It seems that the applied Psyds are more specific in their focuses, and some are shorter because they require an MA. However you've made great points. Would it not be worth it then, to direct these questions to admissions? What else can I ask them to get a better understanding? I would think if it's an APA approved program and if there's possibility for an APA internship, that's the most important thing?

Edit: I was writing this reply as more replies were coming in. I'm going to look at these reviews right now.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well from what it says in the Psyd description, graduates qualify to write the national licensing exam. It seems that the applied Psyds are more specific in their focuses, and some are shorter because they require an MA. However you've made great points. Would it not be worth it then, to direct these questions to admissions? What else can I ask them to get a better understanding? I would think if it's an APA approved program and if there's possibility for an APA internship, that's the most important thing?

Edit: I was writing this reply as more replies were coming in. I'm going to look at these reviews right now.

APA accreditation is very, very important at the grad school level, yes. And your ability to sit for the EPPP (the national licensing exam) is state-dependent. While not all states explicitly require APA accreditation of your grad program, if it's not accredited, you'll have to jump through quite a few hoops in the hopes of convincing the state board that your program meets their requirements (which may include sending syallbi and example coursework from classes, etc.).

You can check into things such as the number of folks who match to APA-accredited internships (not just to internships in general), the average debt level of graduates, the proportion of graduates who are licensed as psychologists within the first few years of graduating, etc.

All in all, though, I just wouldn't recommend the program at all. Things are tough enough when individuals "do everything right," and attend traditional programs (completed in an average of 5-6 years) with accredited internships and post-docs.

Edit: Also, I believe APA doesn't accredit specialty degrees/programs at the graduate school level; they only go with clinical, counseling, school, or some combination thereof. Thus, as erg pointed out, this could just be a clever marketing scheme to make the name of the degree similar enough to the accredited program to make people think it can easily and directly lead to licensure and practice as a psychologist.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Just noticed this:

Here's the text they use for the applied clinical psychology degree:

Curriculum intergrates the eight core competencies informed by the educational model of the National Council of Schools and Programs of Professional Psychology (NCSPP), and qualifies graduates to sit for the national licensure exam and licensure by the California Board of Psychology (BOP).

And here's the text for their clinical psychology PsyD:

Graduates of this program will be prepared to pursue positions as licensed clinical psychologists provided they pass the appropriate licensure examination and complete any state-required post-doctoral residency requirements. Outside agencies control the requirements for taking and passing certification/licensing exams and are subject to change without notice to this campus.

Neither one instills confidence (the latter seems to suggest that the program may not be APA accredited, and thus while they may technically have the classes they think you need to be licensable, it could vary by state). However, the first description doesn't mention anything about sitting for the EPPP or being licensed as a psychologist, simply that you can sit for a generic "national licensure exam" and be eligible to be licensed by the CA board of psych, which may also license masters-level folks (and which could be why the program requires that you have a masters prior to attending).

Also, the program mentions that it can be completed in 3 years including internship. Another huge red flag.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It's a three year Psyd in Applied Clinical Psychology

This is enough of a red flag to run, not walk...far away from the program.

 

[PHD12]

This is enough of a red flag to run, not walk...far away from the program.

The OP is from Canada where there isn't a lot of fraud in higher education. There is a ton of deceptive marketing practices out here. I don't think the Canadian system has these for profit professional programs. Welcome to the USA. California is definitely not the land of "milk and honey."

 

[nolegal10]

Avoid these marketing "techniques" from professional schools. Believe me. I got a M.A. degree in Forensic Psych from CSPP and although I am eligible for LPC licensure in Illinois, most employers look for degrees in social work, clinical psych, or counseling.

 

[thewesternsky]

I'm also Canadian.

Those programs don't exist on the same scale as they do in the US, but they do (unfortunately) exist here. Adler, for example, has a Vancouver Psy.D. program which is neither APA nor CPA accredited, offers no or almost no funding, and costs roughly $100 000 in tuition over the four years on-campus.

OP- Are you considering other kinds of programs at all? There are some excellent Counseling Psychology programs in Canada that are more respected and provide much, much better training.

 

[PHD12]

I'm also Canadian.

Those programs don't exist on the same scale as they do in the US, but they do (unfortunately) exist here. Adler, for example, has a Vancouver Psy.D. program which is neither APA nor CPA accredited, offers no or almost no funding, and costs roughly $100 000 in tuition over the four years on-campus.

.

Interesting. Well, it seems like they literally are just starting and there is only one PsyD program so far at Adler (maybe i'm wrong).

In Fall 2013, the Vancouver campus of Adler will begin offering a Psy.D. in Clinical Psychology—the first true Psy.D. program in Canada. (according to wikipedia)

 

[thewesternsky]

That seems to be right. I thought they had been around longer. The Master's program definitely has been around awhile, which is bad enough. There are also a couple (French) Psy.D. programs in Quebec and a new (English) one starting at Memorial University... Those don't appear to be as bad because the tuition appears reasonable and the faculty are decent, but I'm still a bit worried.

 

[cara susanna]

Wow, those reviews are saying that students teach the grad-level classes! That's crazy.

 

[CCP89]

I'm also Canadian.

Those programs don't exist on the same scale as they do in the US, but they do (unfortunately) exist here. Adler, for example, has a Vancouver Psy.D. program which is neither APA nor CPA accredited, offers no or almost no funding, and costs roughly $100 000 in tuition over the four years on-campus.

OP- Are you considering other kinds of programs at all? There are some excellent Counseling Psychology programs in Canada that are more respected and provide much, much better training.

I'm applying to some counselling programs as backup, but I really want to go into clinical psych for children, and while I like research well enough, I'm interested in the clinical aspect of psychology more, and would like to take courses and practicums that focus on that population. As for the PhD route, I have doubts about my chances. No one really answered me in the WAMC thread haha.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm applying to some counselling programs as backup, but I really want to go into clinical psych for children, and while I like research well enough, I'm interested in the clinical aspect of psychology more, and would like to take courses and practicums that focus on that population. As for the PhD route, I have doubts about my chances. No one really answered me in the WAMC thread haha.

Based on the WAMC post, I'd say you should definitely consider applying to more clinically-oriented Ph.D. programs as well as funded, university-based Psy.D. programs. You have 1.5 years' worth of research experience in two separate labs, posters/abstracts submitted for publication, and if you can rock the GRE's, you very well might get yourself a few acceptances. The only thing that might hold you back would be the GPA, which is below-average relative to other funded program applicants...but not to the extent that it should get you automatically tossed from consideration at most programs.

Strongly consider peppering in some Ph.D. programs in geographically less-desirable areas and see what happens. I can say that living in one of these areas for 5-6 years will likely be much, much more tolerable to you than graduating with $200k in debt...especially considering your degree will likely be more well-regarded to boot.

 

[thewesternsky]

Based on the WAMC post, I'd say you should definitely consider applying to more clinically-oriented Ph.D. programs as well as funded, university-based Psy.D. programs. You have 1.5 years' worth of research experience in two separate labs, posters/abstracts submitted for publication, and if you can rock the GRE's, you very well might get yourself a few acceptances. The only thing that might hold you back would be the GPA, which is below-average relative to other funded program applicants...but not to the extent that it should get you automatically tossed from consideration at most programs.

Strongly consider peppering in some Ph.D. programs in geographically less-desirable areas and see what happens. I can say that living in one of these areas for 5-6 years will likely be much, much more tolerable to you than graduating with $200k in debt...especially considering your degree will likely be more well-regarded to boot.

This is good advice. You could also consider applying to some respected M.A. or M.Sc. programs that are either research-based or more applied. A research M.A., provided you got good grades, would help you get in to a clinical Ph.D. program. A clinical M.A. (in Canada) would likely allow you to work as a psych associate in Canada. Whatever programs you apply to, pay careful attention to class sizes and funding. These are good clues about how much the program and its faculty care about student outcome.

 

[CCP89]

Thank you guys for the suggestions; I'm definitely expanding my options and looking into Masters/PhD programs as well. Just another question- would the MA I linked to in the OP be advisable? Provided that I did that and got good grades, could I then stand a good chance at getting into a PhD program elsewhere?