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Applying to Dental after leaving medicine

Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by ra14206, May 3, 2012.

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  1. ra14206

    ra14206

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    Does anyone here have any experience about applying to Dental School after withdrawing from medical school?

    I withdrew from medical school 3 yrs ago due to family circumstances that made me lose focus. Since then those issues have resolved. I know I cannot go back to medicine but I am science/math inclined. I want to do something health related and earn a decent living. I am thinking of Dental School. Do you have any sincere advice?
  2. AwesomeTeeth

    AwesomeTeeth

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    I've read some of your previous posts in the medical forums. I honestly think you should still stay focused on medicine and becoming a physician. If that's still your dream, you should pursue it or at least give it another chance. I would say reapply to a few allopathic and more osteopathic schools this year and see what happens. You said you called a few osteopathic and they won't care too much about your dismissal. If you don't get any interviews or acceptances, then I would consider jumping ship to dentistry or another healthcare career.
  3. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

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    I would not enter either profession for money.

    If being a physician is what you want to do then you must pursue that. Dentistry and medicine are not as related as one might guess. Your dismissal may even reach dental school admissions. I would follow the above poster's advice and reapply to medical schools. You will have to take the DAT to apply to dental schools and this will take time. If you honestly do not believe you will not get into medical school, then study for the DAT while you reapply. Worst comes to worst, the DAT studying will prep you a little bit for the second run at medical school.
  4. ra14206

    ra14206

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    First of all thank you for replying. AwesomeTeeth your reply is very encouraging and gives me hope. I wish there was a way for me to back to medicine. I had an impeccable academic record and extracurriculars until my failures on the clerkships. If I had not taken a remediation year and had not failed again, I think I would've had a chance at reapplying. I have thought about it all for about 3 years now and I see there no hope in medicine for me even though I have great aptitude for it. It is one of those tragedies in life. Someone who never attended medschool would have a better chance than I do now.
    This leaves me to worry about my future and the future of my wife and child. I would rather have a steady job/profession instead of what I am doing now. Thus I find only Dental School to be the next best thing to interest me.

    Toothsayer - I am doing this not to have a lot of money but for stability. A guarantee that I will not have a source of income wiped out from under me.
  5. ra14206

    ra14206

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    I forgot to mention that I would have to take the MCAT anyway. I would rather take the DAT and start at a new career.

    Does anyone know whether I can use a 10 yr old undergrad education to apply to dental school?
  6. doc toothache

    doc toothache

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    That kind of tells it all. You mean a DDS/DMD comes with a guarantee?
  7. ra14206

    ra14206

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    Better than what I am doing right now!
  8. UltimateHombre

    UltimateHombre Doc Holliday D.D.S.

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    Unfortunately, this record will also follow you to dental school. You have to report transcripts from all colleges and universities. So dental schools will see you flunked out of med school and it will raise some serious red flags on your application.

    I think the best thing to do, would be to contact some individual schools that you are interested in and explain your situation. They would probably tell you the best plan of attack or if there is a better option for you.

    Best of luck!!
  9. doc toothache

    doc toothache

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    Precisely!
  10. a2ndragoon89

    a2ndragoon89

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    You need to go back to school for maybe a year (junior college/state college) to show adcoms that you can handle the coursework. 10yrs is really long ago and I'm not sure if they'd be able to use your GPA from undergrad to judge your application.
  11. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

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    Dentistry is different from other professions OP.

    I am very worried about how you're looking at dentistry and medicine. I suggest you do two things A. If you do want to pursue dentistry you will need to shadow extensively as it is to build your application. Your medical school issue will not easily be overlooked by adcom. You must volunteer as well. Many schools have requirements for hours. This will enable you to perhaps realize that "better than now" may not be worth it if you're simply interested in providing for your family. This is an honest desire that everyone has. It's very commendable you want to do better, but you must think clearly and thoroughly. As a practicing dentist, your hand skills will dictate your life. Are you good with working with your hands? Have you had experience in this area? Adcom looks for this. While nothing you do out of dental school can prepare you for dental hands-it will help- With the PAT especially. Also, would you want to work in other people's mouths? Some would rather not. Others, don't mind it.

    OP, with 10 years of undergrad behind you. I would consider another profession all together and I would shadow all options. You are a science person? Consider engineering, physician's assistant, physical therapy, or pharmacy. Engineering is very respectable, you earn a great income, you have job stability, you do not need to take a test, you can work straight out of undergrad, it will not take nearly as long, and it won't be nearly as expensive. Similarly, PA and PT are 2 year programs. No test required.

    Pharmacy school is a lot cheaper, it's very science orientated-more so than dentistry I would say. It's very stable income. 90-100k out of pharmacy school is not uncommon. It isn't as competitive as dental or medical school, so you will be able to still spend time with you family while in undergrad(in terms of building EC). It is a very respectable career with good benefits. They may be more lenient towards your medical school problem. Pharmacy school isn't as strict on taking courses at a uni. Many people go to community college for two or three years and enter pharmacy school.

    The reason why I suggest this to you is because dental school is a huge commitment. Besides the few years of intensive undergrad and the four years of intensive dental school, money is an issue. You will be around 150-400k in debt straight out of dental school. You will not simply start making 500k+ you will work as an associate for a few years until you build skill and reputation. After this, you may open up a practice(a 600k investment). Keep in mind that overhead will also curb your income for a short while. People think dentist make a steady salaried income, this is not the case. Depending on your business skills, location, staff, schedule, clinical ability, time, and personality you may very well end up making 90k a year with all that debt. It does happen. As with all professions, dentistry too is becoming competetive with older dentists delaying retirement and the market saturating. Consult the BLS for more general information.

    Consider the above, and everything all the other posters have said. I have seen many people trying to jump ship to dentistry or medicine or pharmacy to "provide for their family." It isn't that simple or straightforward.
  12. AwesomeTeeth

    AwesomeTeeth

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    Guys, I think you need to look at OP's situation a little more closely.

    He went to medical school. He was doing fine until his third year when family circumstances came up and he failed shelf exams. I don't think he needs lecturing on how intensive or hard dental school will be. Telling him that he needs to prove himself by taking undergrad courses is almost offensive.

    I'm sure he's already thought about the hands skills required in dentistry and working on people's mouths. Trust me, some people in my dental class right now have pretty bad hands. It's not required that you have some amazing hands for dental school. You will learn it once you get here.

    The DAT is going to be fine for OP. His undergrad GPA, according to him, was high which means he did well in his undergrad prereq classes. He took the MCAT and made a high enough score to get into medical school. The DAT isn't going to be a problem for him.



    Read his original thread here:
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=856439

    "I have a great GPA, lots of research, publication as first author, good LORs, some volunteer experience before I went to med school. The poor performance in the third year is haunting my reapplication efforts."

    "I have trained all my life to be a physician and I have significant research experience including a NIH student grant that I got during med school. I have these failures from the third year haunting me, and I feel that they will keep me from ever getting back in to a US MD or DO school if I reapply."

    This guy shouldn't be doing PA or PT. Maybe pharmacy if he wants. Engineering is a completely different field and takes someone who enjoys it.

    OP, what does your financial situation look like? Do you have still loans from medical school?
  13. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

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    Right. The 10 year gap is something to factor in. When entering undergrad, students already have, hopefully, some degree of study habit. Postbaccs often find themselves having initial trouble getting in the swing of things. It's hard to go back to school. OP mentions his family. 7-8 years for undergrad and D-school and the debt that follows may not prove lucrative for him or his family in the way he wishes. In terms of perspective, you may not spend AS MUCH time studying for organic chemistry as you did during undergrad..however I doubt after 10 years the reactions are still tucked away in your memory.

    The only reason I posed the above reasoning is for the sake of time, money, commitment, and the initial med school dilemma.

    Depending on OP's financial situation, this may not matter. OP mentioned that dentists do better than what he is doing now. For most people- this is true. It doesn't really give an indication of OP's financial situation, but the fact that he mentioned it led me to advise accordingly.

    I suppose you're right about PA or PT. OP has dedication, drive, and intelligence. Pharmacy is something I wouldn't discount though.
  14. ra14206

    ra14206

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    AwesomeTeeth thanks for the positive words. I appreciate it that you remembered what I wrote on my other posts.
    TheToothsayer - I am not offended. I have built a very thick skin because of my circumstances.

    That's correct I did have a stellar GPA and a LOT of awards under my belt. It gives an indication of my abilities. I can't say too much to preserve my privacy, but I am doing well monetarily for the last 2 years but I don't think it will last a lifetime. I have saved enough to pay off my student loans in one shot and still have a some left over. If I was to invest my time and money it would be something that could lead to a stable "career." That's important. I have learned that money isn't everything to life but stability and peace of mind is.

    I could see myself in engineering, but my math brain needs to be reactivated again. In either case I will have to learn to get back in the groove and it will take some training.

    My motor skills are pretty good. I was complemented many times on my surgery clerkship about my ability. It probably has no relation to dentistry, I don't know.

    My question is this, if I shadow a dentist and get a recommendation, get my past preceptors and professors to write a recommendation, and I do well on the DAT, do I have a chance without going back to undergrad?

    I am getting the sense that my overpriced undergrad education that I worked my ass off to get a 3.8 is worth nothing anymore.
  15. sacapuntas

    sacapuntas Verified Account

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    You are in a complex situation that most of us are not equipped to analyze so we can't do anything more than guess. But it seems like if you continue to do the right things you could find yourself in Dental school.

    In regards to not taking any more undergrad classes, I am not sure, but it might not be a terrible idea to get your feet wet again and show you haven't lost anything by taking a couple tougher bio courses. Your 3.8 gpa from your original undergrad is definitely worth something, without that you would not have a chance.

    My complete guess is that a lot of dental schools are going to have a problem with you being dismissed from med school, but you will be able to find a school willing to give you a shot. I would start by calling dental schools and telling your story and ask them what you can do to prove yourself in their eyes.

    Best of luck to you, I hope you find your path.
  16. AwesomeTeeth

    AwesomeTeeth

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    You have to call the dental schools and ask them. I think its important that they're aware of your situation as well. I don't think anyone here can give you a definitive answer, and I'm sure every school will have a different opinion.
  17. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

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    In addition to the above posts, consider other career choices and/or options. I think this will be more clear to you as you begin to outline the next few years for you. In our current economic state, you're absolutely correct. A peace of mind and financial stability often go hand-in-hand.

    Best of luck
  18. gladiator87

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    I thought this thread was going in the downward direction but I'm glad it ended well. I'm really touch by all the good advice.

    OP, I see you're in a very unique situation and agree with the above poster about contacting the schools and getting a definite answer. I know every school requirements are different but I think it will give you a general idea of where you stand on your potential path to dentistry. From the looks of things ,OP, I say you have so much potential and that you should give Dentistry a go if everything else workout. Best of luck and keep us updated :)
  19. Poetic Silence

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    How about podiatry? Seriously, people mention pharmacy and engineering before podiatry?
  20. doc toothache

    doc toothache

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    It would be nice to prove to yourself that the cortex is not fully coated with Fe2O3, because clearly the "stellar gpa" has collected some serious dust. In your case, other than making a decision on what it is you want to do when you grow up, you may have to consider an MS, unless your DAT ends up somewhere in the stratosphere. Until you have DAT scores there is not much left to discuss.
  21. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

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    Careful. Your post is almost condescending. Pharmacy and engineering are both very difficult, respectable career paths.
  22. trinstudent

    trinstudent

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    I think he was coming from the perspective that podiatry has many more similarities to medicine than do pharmacy or engineering and thus lying within the OP's interests.
  23. BrutalViking

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    People, if he wanted to do another career, he would of said so. He is here asking about dentistry. So what he left medical school? He had his personal circumstances and i'm sure dental school will be understanding if he explained to them (that's if they even bothered to ask). Either way OP, you'll need to shadow a dentist so you'd know that this is something you're willing to do and so you can put it on your application (some schools have minimum 100 hours shadowing experience). About the DAT, since you've been out of school for 10 years, you're probably rusty in some areas but if you are determined, you'd do fine. I have no clue why some people are just trying to discourage you.
  24. Barking Lamb

    Barking Lamb

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    ^
  25. Poetic Silence

    Poetic Silence

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    Not only that, but podiatry schools are more likely to accept older college credits and give advance standing for medical school credits.
  26. ra14206

    ra14206

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    Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate you taking out the time to read this thread. I have considered podiatry, but haven't gotten around to ask questions about it yet.

    Lets say I were to get in to and graduate from dental school, do you think employers care to know I withdrew from medical school? I ask this to compare to ERAS profiles that would show this information.
  27. yellowjeeep79

    yellowjeeep79

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    If you do well in Dschool, I think the past is past. I would not base my decision to hire you based on long past failure if you do well this time around.
  28. GarfieldKoe

    GarfieldKoe

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    I would not enter either profession for money.


    [​IMG]
  29. ra14206

    ra14206

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    How come you wrote that? Are you saying that both are no longer expected to be stable sources of income?
  30. Dr. Dai Phan

    Dr. Dai Phan Senior Member Moderator Lifetime Donor SDN Advisor

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    Greetings,

    The main issue here is whether or not the OP makes the right choice in considering dentistry as a profession. If medicine is what you want, then work toward getting back to medical school even with off shore option. If this is impossible to achieve, then feel free to consider other fields but in my opinion, becoming a physician is still within your reach. DP
  31. dentalWorks

    dentalWorks Nights Watchmen

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    just to give you prospective, one of my classmates right now, was a medical student.... He actually got accepted into MD 1 year before getting into dental school. Attended 1 week of orientation and said that was it.... left medicine, applied to dental, and is now in class with me.

    And why not? whats so wrong about going into healthcare inorder to afford a comfortable lifestyle? IMO, Statements like these have no rational basis

    The most important thing about healthcare is not necessarily your motivation, but more so HOW WELL YOU CAN HANDLE THE JOB

    Healthcare positions are best occupied by competent individuals (aka, smart, hard working, ambitious, yada yada yada), if you are competent to handle the job well, you are good enough.
  32. DentalJedi

    DentalJedi

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    Very well said. I hate when people get high and mighty about motivations, when they're completely irrelevant. If I wanted to sleep with a girl and decided to impress her by ending world hunger, I still would have done something good. Likewise, if I want to go into dentistry to make good money, but I take good care of my patients and treat them fairly, I've still done something good. It doesn't matter why I did it.
  33. Poetic Silence

    Poetic Silence

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    That's an interesting point of view. I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure I agree. I believe your primary motivator should be to help others. If money is second on your list of priorities, I have no complaint. It just shouldn't be the first. Especially with a changing field like dentistry or medicine.
  34. dentalWorks

    dentalWorks Nights Watchmen

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    thats nice of you, but alot of us are graduating with upwards of 350-450k of debt, "helping others" ain't gonna pay my raging 7-8% interest.

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